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Verlerger on Oil Glut: "There has never been anything like it"

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:03 AM
Original message
Verlerger on Oil Glut: "There has never been anything like it"
Verlerger on Oil Glut: "There has never been anything like it"
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/07/verlerger-on-oil-glut-there-has-never.html">Naked Capitalism


While oil is a finite resource, focusing on the long term can blind one to near-term dynamics. There has been surprisingly little mention in the mainstream media of how large the current oil surplus is. The collective view seems to be that this will take care of itself in short order. But that may be longer in coming than most believe.

Some veteran oil analysts, in particular Philip Verlerger, beg to differ. From the http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-oil4-2009jul04,0,311438.story">Los Angeles Times:

    Downward pressure on oil prices is so great that crude could trade for as little as $20 a barrel by the end of the year -- less than a third of what it traded for this week and an 86% drop from its peak last year, analysts said...

    The reasons are simple, said Philip K. Verleger Jr., an expert on energy markets at the University of Calgary in Canada: The still-sputtering economy has lessened demand at a time when there is already a big surplus of oil.

    For eight straight months, oil supplies have been running about 2 million barrels a day higher than the global demand of 83 million barrels a day, Verleger said. Eventually, he and others predicted, suppliers will tire of paying to store all of the surplus oil and flood the market.

    "That is the largest and longest continuous glut of supply that I have seen in 30 years of following energy prices," Verleger said. "It's a huge surplus. There has never been anything like it."
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:16 AM
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1. Propagandists perform the 'minuette'
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704wipes Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:29 AM
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2. and we can make it worse !! BETTER THAT IS...
Don't FILL UP !! ever.

buy only what you need for a day or two.
If millions of people did this...

LET. IT. SIT. IN. THEIR. FUCKING. TANKS.

Think about it...Let's fuck with them...
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. buying only a day or two's worth makes no sense
You won't use any less gas that way. You'll use more since the emptier your tank is, the faster the gas in it evaporates.

Just drive as little as possible. Remember the $4/gal price and keep all the efficiencies in place. Single trip to do all errands. Carpool or take public trans if, unlike so many of us, you still have a job.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Good answer. nt
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:18 AM
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3. Silly Rabbit!
Oil prices have nothing to do with supply & demand. The price of oil products is set arbitrarily by Goldman-Sachs and other robber barons. The only fundamental in play in regard to oil prices is the greed of the players in the opaque energy markets.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. before the robber barons turned to commodities speculation
the price of oil was totally tied to supply and demand.

Even now, as the "green shoots" wither away, some speculators are realizing that at least until there is some sort of economic recovery demand will remain low. Sooner or later they will start to dump their oil stocks.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. and yet gas is topping 3 bucks
which means the price gouging continues, long after the "oil" boys have left office.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:39 AM
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5. maybe if the speculators started put options on oil,
the price of oil could be in the triple digits ... counting the two digits after the decimal point ...
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. I saw this story
BAD MOJO BABY!!! can you imagine the damage 20 dollar a barrel oil will do to economy's like Russia, Mexico, Venezuela and the middle east! it would be a disaster! china on the other hand would buy up oil assets like crazy!! man O man this could get "interesting"
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:14 AM
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10. Complexity theory and herding behaviour in the oil market
In August 2005, over on DU's Peak Oil board, I made a bet with two other members on the price of oil. The bet was whether three years later on August 31, 2008, oil would be above or below $70 per barrel. The bet was for the price of one barrel of oil on that date.

At the time I was a Peak Oil fundamentalist, and thought I had the future of oil pretty well figured out -- rising prices forever, even in the face of the inevitable economic slowdown triggered by stagnant or declining oil supplies. As it turned out, robertpaulson and I won the bet, as oil closed at $115 that day. But the price was already on its way down from the June high of $147, and six weeks later it slipped back below $70 on its way down to $40 -- from which it has recovered back to, yep, around $70.

The outcome of that bet taught me that there's a lot more to oil prices than simple supply and demand. There's speculation of course, and there are the underlying economic drivers (the price of a resource drops when people stop doing things that require it). But above all there seems to be a lot of "human herding behaviour". When people see the price of something go up they assume it's becoming more valuable, rush to buy it, and -- lo and behold -- the price keeps going up. Then the social mood changes, the price begins to fall, and people flee the investment -- causing the price to fall even further, until the social mood changes once again and the price starts to rise once more.

My basic error was in assuming that the oil market, like any other market you care to name, is rational and tends towards equilibrium -- the Efficient Market Hypothesis. In fact, it seems as though prices largely ride on (or reflect) the prevailing social mood, whether they are prices for oil or stocks. Because they reflect human psychology at least as much as their underlying fundamentals, there is no reason to expect stock or commodity prices to reach an equilibrium, or to purely reflect the fundamentals.

This understanding may be what enables some speculators to make a killing an any market. Either consciously or unconsciously they read the "social mood" of the market, get ahead of the price movement and make a killing. Those of us who think the market is an aggregation of rational actors and is driven largely by its fundamentals (even if those fundamentals are somewhat skewed by profiteers) are destined to lose our shirts, because our responses will always lag the prices.

I still think that Peak Oil is a real, geological phenomenon, but I now have a somewhat more nuanced view of how that will play out in the real world, especially with regards to oil prices. One of the factors I had seriously underestimated is the power of social mood and human herding.

Another way of looking at our current predicament with oil is this:

We have an over-extended and structurally brittle global economy, overly complex market mechanisms in virtually every aspect of trade, a lack of national regulations and an inability to regulate international transactions in a world that has been mortgaging its future by running on debt, with the whole Rube Goldberg contraption powered by a resource engine based on exhaustible fossil fuels. As oil supplies become more constrained, what could possibly go wrong?
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. Resulting in a stimulus package several times larger than Obama's
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 10:35 AM by HamdenRice
I'm all for the long term goal of weaning us from fossil fuels, but an oil glut would be like a huge tax rebate to many struggling families, paid out of the coffers of the oil companies.

This would have the practical equivalent effect of passing a windfall profits tax on the oil giants for their 2006-2008 price gouging, and using it to send out rebate checks.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. And following the crash in oil prices will be a crash in oil drilling and investments
And within a few years, if/when the economy recovers, oil prices will spike like nothing we've seen before, and possibly send us into ANOTHER recession/depression.

Enjoy it while you can.
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