Japan wants to abolish cash. Do you realize the implications of this???

[dixiegrrrrl]

Other proposals:
a TAX on physical money.
an inerest rate of MINUS 4 %.
Sound crazy?
If this happens, it will NOT be "just Japan".

Read this:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6531299.ece

and see the Max Keiser video here ( esp the last 2 minutes ) ( cross posted )
The whole thing is worth watching, at least twice.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x329938

[annabanana]

1. They'd better hope the power never goes out.. . . . . . .n/t

[JBoy]

2. the Strip Club industry will have to get creative.

[Generic Brad]

4. They will have to develop the "e-string"

[earthboundmisfit]

9. Very good!

:toast:

[dkf]

3. Might be a boon for the dollar.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. There won't be a dollar. That is the whole point.

Did you watch the video? Did you hear what Max outlined?
Japan is floating the idea. It won't be "just" Japan if the idea is accepted.

edited to add:
and a negative interest rate means YOU pay the bank to hold your "money".

[dkf]

6. Japan's problem is they save too much

That isn't our problem.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. "That isn't our problem. "

Not at the moment.

"economists have described Japan as particularly suitable as a testing ground."

[Art_from_Ark]

18. Why would Japan be "particularly suitable as a testing ground"?

It is still very much a cash-based society. Even with all the credit cards and debit-cards out there, most of the transactions I see in Japanese stores are in cash. If Japanese savers are going to be charged for keeping their money in a bank, they're just going to take it out and keep it at home, under their tatami mats.

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. Why would Japan be "particularly suitable as a testing ground"?

If cash is outlawed, there will be no money to put under the mats.
Japan's culture is very malleable, Japan's economy is STILL fairly flat after 10 years of deflation, and all those
Japanese have been saving their money, which is what happens in deflation.
Saving = no spending.
No spending= no feeding the bubble machine.
Therefore, if you no longer have actually money, you have "credits" which can be manipulated by the banks, just as they have been in all banks. In fact, this whole derivative bubble was possible because there was NO money to actually back up the computer generated "credits". All "value" was just paper value.
When you swipe your bank card to buy groceries, credits flow back and forth.

But...if there is no actual cash available, whoever controls the machines controls your income.
And, no bank runs to get your money out.

Watch the movie "The Minority Report". See what happens when you can no longer access "credits"
and pieces of paper have no value. You cease to exist.

[Art_from_Ark]

21. Cash is not going to be outlawed in Japan

As someone who has been involved in the japanese economy for nearly 3 decades, I can say that that is just plain ludicrous.

Saving= saving. Japanese spend money like everyone else, for crying out loud. But they have also seen economic hardship in the not-too-distant past, so they have a penchant for saving as well. Not only for themselves, but for their kids-- especially for prep/tutorial schools, college and marriage. So eventually a lot of that saved money gets spent, for tuition, as a down payment on a house, to furnish a home, and so on.

And very few people "swipe" bank cards to pay for groceries here-- I would say that 95% of all transactions are in cash-- not even personal checks (which aren't even used here)-- cash. And you can go into a 7-11 and make the equivalent of a $5 purchase with the Japanese equivalent of a $100 bill, and no one thinks anything of it. When I buy a set of tickets for the bus, the only acceptable payment is cash. And lots of shops are only equipped to handle cash. Whoever made that ridiculous claim about Japan being a "particularly suitable as a testing ground" for a cashless society doesn't seem to know the first thing about the actual Japanese economy.

[Art_from_Ark]

23. I think the US is more suitable as a testing ground for a cashless society

since cash is used far less frequently in the US than Japan. There is even a stigma attached to the use of cash in the US, even a few measly $100 bills, while cash transactions in Japan, even in large amounts, are quite common.

[TheWatcher]

26. You talk about Saving as if it's a bad thing.

That Savings "Problem" was one of the things that actually HELPED the Japanese people weather the storm better than they would have for the past 20 or so years when the bottom fell out in '89.

But I know, Saving is evil and of the Devil, Bailout, Green Shoots, Monetize To The Moon, Profitable Banks, etc, etc, etc.

[Democracyinkind]

11. Yeah. I've been to a political assembly yesterday -

with the young liberals in Europe ("FDP" in most countries and in the EU parliament) and they were all excited about promoting the Euro as new global reserve currency (Impossible! my dad shouted...). What really astounded me was the amount of professors, businessmen and intellectuals who have all but given up on the dollar and the US as a leading economy.

I always have seen this come, and it was always pretty clear that Europe isn't just the lackey of the US when it comes to empire, but I must say the air that I experienced there was pretty unreal. I didn't really realize that a large part of Europe's young intellectuals have been anticipating this trend and how convinced they are that these are the last days of the American Empire.

Scary thing is, they basically represent the worst segment of Europe's politically minded people: They are the ones who want to replace the empire with themselves, rather than discarding it for good. And if they don't get the Euro boxed thru (what I wouldn't expect) they are very determined to be the guiding hand in any basket-based reserve scheme or whatever will eventually come out as the new system.

Ireland absolutely MUST defeat LISSABON2 . These people are just waiting for the "Sick man of the 21 century" to die and feed on his corpse. Actually, one lecture was titled - America: Ottoman Empire reloaded (The Ottoman Empire was known as the "sick man of Europe" since the early 19th century and the anticipated death of that sick man would open the "oriental question" - the proximate cause for World War 1.)

Anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is: It seems that what Max Kaiser says is pretty much a silent consensus with the European bourgeoisie. I'm kinda shocked. I always imagined us visionaries on the left to be the only ones who could imagine a world in which America doesn't have the systemic bias to prop up its phony economy.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. Really appreciate your comments.

The beauty of watching Keiser is we can hear the POV from OUTSIDE the USA bubble.
The descension of the US empire has been predicted, forewarned and watched for the last 10 years, by many astute people, but not much was "heard "here in the Confused States of America.
I would be really interested in any links you have found valuable.

[Delphinus]

22. I agree, dixiegrrrrl.

Too many people in this country don't go outside the M$M to get their news and this is not talked about.

I'm not surprised by Democracyinkind's words that those in Europe have already written the dollar (and America) off as no longer a leader.

[TheWatcher]

27. It is very difficult to find voices of Reason here inside The Ignorant Curtain.

America is about as deluded a Fantasy Land as there ever has been, will be, or could EVER be in recorded human History.

We have a VERY good chance of making the Last Days Of Rome look Sane and Orderly.

[bighughdiehl]

7. 2 things this is about

1. Surveillance. Knowing everything everybody buys at all times. We just haven't copied enough of the 1984 playbook yet, dammit!

2. Life just isn't tough enough for the poor, and especially the homeless. How dare they not have a permanent address and therefore no bank account! Eliminating the possibility of doing odd jobs or begging for cash may just be the ticket to reducing the surplus population!

[panader0]

10. That happened quite a while ago in my house.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. Ouch !! sorry to hear that.

I am all too aware that, while we are fine here today, tomorrow can bring changes.
Not a lot of security in today's financial/political/corporate climate.

[northernlights]

14. that's not quite what I read

The article seemed more along the lines of some financial elites think it might solve their deflation problem. That's a long way from saying the country wants to try it.

As faare as the implications, it seems to me that for a country of savers, like Japan, charging people interest to save would drive people to empty out their bank accounts in a big, fat hurry. Which could lead to hyperinflation as demand for certain goods, that wouldn't cost anything to store, outstripped supply.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. Why would taking money out of Japanese banks lead to hyperinflation?

I don't follow your reasoning here. It wouldn't be like Japanese would start spending cash like crazy if they kept it at home and started chasing after a bunch of goods that they already aren't chasing after.

[lindisfarne]

15. Good for visa & mastercard; they get a percent of every transaction - even on debit cards, I believe

[checks-n-balances]

16. In the U.S. it means you couldn't even lend cash to a friend (or vice versa)

No garage sales, no cash contributions to charities, and no financial transactions without the complete involvement and control of Corporate "America".

[pa28]

17. Interesting and thought provoking. Thanks for spotting it.

I've heard about the idea of negative interest rates but wondered how you might accomplish that beyond paying banks to borrow. Effective this is a negative interest rate if you are taxing cash the public might hold in a bank account.

I suppose that's one way to rid the Japanese of their pesky saving habit and compel them to spend and invest.

[Xenotime]

24. Cash is out dated anyway. It serves no real modern purpose.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. You're kidding, right?

Cash is the only tangible money today. And it is the only monetary medium that allows for anonymity in purchases. In super-high-tech Japan, it is still the preferred method of payment for daily purchases.

[TheWatcher]

28. He's NOT Kidding Unfortunately.

Welcome to the world of the Zombie American in their Natural State of Unquestioning Glaze.

There are some days I believe there are far too many in this country who are so DESPERATE to be enslaved that they are almost getting hyper impatient and fidgety in anticipation of it happening.