Universal Health Care

[.... callchet ....]

There are only so many doctors and facilities. So only the same amount of people could be treated. Universal health Care will have to be extremely selective to work. Screening for more serious conditions. Require huge amounts of money and training to spread care around. The system is working as it should.

[PA Democrat]

1. Nice push poll.

:puke:

[mmonk]

2. Sorry, but I don't see that as the underlying problem.

Our current system costs more per capita than systems such as single payer or National Healthcare systems. The problem has always been our middle man profit system.

[Donnachaidh]

3. you've got a great future writing polls for Faux News. n/t

[.... callchet ....]

4. What is your point ?

This is copied from your post "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." Do you see no problem with health care ?

[YOY]

7. The point is that there is no "UHC works." choice.

Because, you see...it does.


It does everywhere else in the fucking civilized world.

It's been proven. REAL facts and all.

It's not rocket science.

[.... callchet ....]

11. You don't get it

The poll picks at the scabs to see what people are afraid of and thinking of. I originated the following " if you are against UHC your are saying

to the uninsured : " I wish you were dead " " I also originated the concept that if you are initially offended by someone you can never reverse that

position regardless of a positive clarification.

[geckosfeet]

5. Fire the ten highest paid executives in every health care company.

That should free up a few billion for each company.

[GliderGuider]

6. How would that help?

Does shooting presidents fix America?
The system is greater than any individual, even its leader. You need to change the system, not the man.

[.... callchet ....]

13. Concur

Just cut their pay and see if they are as humanitarian as they profess. People will work for a lot less. They should be happy to work for less to

save the country . Thats what we told the UAW , right ?

[geckosfeet]

33. Fire the lot, get new, vetted leadership from within.

[Citizen Number 9]

18. Your information isn't very good.

Opinions based on bad information are as rotten as the premise.


But feel free to support it with facts if you wish.

[GliderGuider]

8. Single-payer UHC is cheaper, more equitable and more effective than America's system.

From http://www.pnhp.org/

The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $7,129 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison (on major health indicators such as life expectancy, infant mortality and immunization rates) and still leaves 47 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.

This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $350 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.

[Lint Head]

9. Healthcare is a right!

:dem:

[.... callchet ....]

12. Hooray !

Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I think all the basics are a right. Food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, childcare and jobs. To deny this

is to deny the Constitution and wish ill on the less fortunate.

[Citizen Number 9]

19. Ha ha this is hilarious.

If you and I are stranded on a desert isle where is your "right" to health care?

[demodonkey]

20. In that case you'd be missing a lot of other rights too...

...for example your right to vote. Any election would either be unanimous consent or a tied deadlock.

You would also have a hard time getting your public education, and other public services that are considered rights in our country.

[Citizen Number 9]

21. Consider them rights all you want.

That's what usually happens when people are accustomed to getting them with little or no effort on their part. They are among the first ones to call them "rights" with no respect as to how these things are provided to them.

Education is not a right. It's something the public provides for.


Unanimous consent, tied deadlock, call it what you want; it's still voting.

[demodonkey]

32. I respect Libertarians, but you should go to the Libertarian Board. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

:hi:

[Citizen Number 9]

36. I don't really identify with groups.

It is amazing I've remained a Democrat my whole life.

[.... callchet ....]

24. Your right

Your right would be that if a tree trunk fell on you that you could not move by yourself, I would help move it. And would you not look to me for

help. Don't you think that that would be an entitlement that you would have? Otherwise why would you even look for help ?

[Citizen Number 9]

27. See, I don't think that's a good example

Neither you nor I make our living moving trees off of people and if we did I wouldn't expect you to do it without charging me. If you did, I'd immediately come up with a plan to get you to where we could help more people who are in the same position. For free, of course.

[.... callchet ....]

28. I was answering your post about being stranded on an island

And what rights of entitlement would you have then. " If you and I are stranded on a desert isle where is your "right" to health care? "Your right

would be that if a tree trunk fell on you that you could not move by yourself, I would help move it. And would you not look to me for

help. Don't you think that that would be an entitlement that you would have? Otherwise why would you even look for help ?

[Citizen Number 9]

29. Chet. You might help me out of the goodness of your heart

( I have no doubt of that) but other island members might not bother. Unless of course, they were fond of the fish I catch or possibly, my dubious entertainment value. It might even be an expectation, but it's just not a right.

[.... callchet ....]

30. I give up !

[.... callchet ....]

31. I don't mind

being whittled away at, but you are using a chain saw.

[Citizen Number 9]

35. I can appreciate your sentiments, really I can

But the next step is to throw me in jail for denying a "right" to everyone who is in need of medical care.

[GliderGuider]

22. The word “right” is difficult to support for things like UHC.

I think of it this way instead:

National governments provide services deemed to be in the broad public interest, and pay for them out of the public purse. What those services are will depend on the desires of the citizens (as mediated through their political apparatus) and the ability of the treasury to support the service.

The list of basic services tends to include police, judiciary, military, basic health care and basic educational services. This list is based on the understanding that a stable nation needs external security, the orderly resolution of internal disputes, and a population that is in good enough health with enough education to be productive contributors.

As a nation‘s economy grows, its options for public funding become greater. At that point the citizens can make some decisions in terms of the services provided and the tradeoffs between them. They might decide to expand the amount of education coverage and pay for it by reducing military expenditures, or institute national health care funded through increased taxes, or any of a long list of other approaches.

Universal health care can be seen as an eligible common good because of three things: the extreme financial risk posed to those who are not covered by private plans; the economic risks posed by a less healthy and productive population; and a sense of fundamental fairness and justice (e.g. people can’t avoid illness though an act of will, so why should the burden of chance fall more heavily on the poor who did nothing more to deserve illness than the rich?) UHC can also be seen as a risk management strategy: the risk to the country of having entire families taken out of the work-force by ruinous medical costs incurred by one member is eliminated by spreading that risk and cost over the entire population. In the end the whole country is better off as a result.

UHC is probably more eligible than universal higher education (for example), because the social need for PhD’s is less than the need for an overall healthy population.

So while UHC may not be a “right” (whatever that means) it’s easy to make the case that it’s definitely in the interest of a modern industrial society to provide it.

[eridani]

37. I agree. "Public good" is a better term than "right"

Pass it on

[Creideiki]

10. How about an option for:

"Obama doesn't support UHC, so no True Democrat (TM) supports UHC. YOU'RE ALL SOCIALISTS!!!111!!1!!"

The reality is that unless Congress takes the lead and does this on their own, it's not going to happen.

[demodonkey]

14. Not voting. This is a fake push poll and NOT ONE OF THE CHOICES IS TRUE.

Single-payer healthcare for all. We can't affoord NOT to do this.

[.... callchet ....]

16. You are wrong !

All of the choices are true! The point is we have to defend the sacrifices and offer solutions to get UHC . IF not the

other side wins when they point out the obvious as their defense.

[.... callchet ....]

17. Fight for care !

callchet (210 posts) Tue Jan-06-09 11:35 AM
Original message
I wish you were dead !
I believe that fighting against Universal Health Care is the same as saying "I wish you were dead" to the poor. If you don't have health insurance

and you are poor, you don't get to see a doctor after the emergency room visit, period. I am sure there are some exceptions to that, but I say

throwing a penny into a crowd of beggars does not relieve you of your moral responsibility. Go ahead and tell me how it is bad in Canada and I will

tell you it is not bad for the poor in Canada. Let's make UHC happen, you won't go to hell for supporting UHC, you might get a higher seat in heaven

or what ever kind of place rewards you. Most of us are going to lose everything any way. So why not help ourselves. Please feel free to email me to

tell me if I am going about this wrong or whatever help or criticsm you may have. I have been inactive for twenty five years, but I am ready to start

again.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. By restrictive to work I mean

that everyone won't be able to get elective surgery done immediately--there will have to be a prioritizing of services, like there is in Canada. I hope we adopt a system like Canada, however, because it includes chiropractic and holistic medicine practitioners. The last thing I want here is universal coverage that restricts care only to MDs who believe in treating people as groups rather than individuals and believe only in using drugs to treat symptoms rather than teaching people how to stay healthy via diet, exercise, and supplementation.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. Part of UHC needs to be lifting the cap the AMA puts on the number of doctors

If everyone is guaranteed health care, then obviously more doctors will be needed. We can recruit good students to work in health care like we do for the military.

[.... callchet ....]

25. I remember from teachings or lectures

that at the beginning of the 1900's there was a flood of doctors here and abroad, especially in France. That was when restrictions were started to be placed limiting the number of new doctors. Vague recollection .

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. That's not a problem now.

The cost of medical school is so prohibitive that many potential good doctors are discouraged just from that. Then the AMA places an arbitrary and restrictive cap on the number of doctors there can be on top of it.

[many a good man]

34. Single payer UHC is utterly democratic!

WE THE PEOPLE can decide what gets covered under the standard formulary. Want the wait for elective procedures reduced from eight weeks to four? Tell your reps to raise taxes x billion to make it so.

Health care costs spiralling out of control? A single buyer would have the clout to negotiate with providers to keep prices fair. That way we can cover far more people for the same price.

More training and practictioners needed? Let's hire more! The jobs created and additional tax revenues accrued will benefit the whole society.

Once one moves past their indestructible teens and twenties and thirties, he or she tends to realize that good health is the most important thing of all. Its time to make society reflect the values of its people. Single payer now!

[angryfirelord]

38. It's got to be done carefully

It's tempting to implement a single-payer system all at once, but don't forget this is the same government that's sending Social Security, Medicare, & Medicaid into bankruptcy and created the screwed up HMO system. It should be a step-by-step process, where we would start providing service to people at the poverty level and slowly working our way up. That way, if we do notice shortages of doctors or other problems, then we can fix it along the way.

[.... callchet ....]

39. What is the point of health care ?

Really, what is the point of health care. Would you grant that in some cases it saves lives? Then could you say denying health care can kill people.

Why is there no sense of urgency about getting health care for everybody? The point of UHC besides saving money is to save lives.