Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Slowly I Turned...Contrary Investor...May 2008

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 10:47 AM
Original message
Slowly I Turned...Contrary Investor...May 2008
http://contraryinvestor.com/mo.htm

May 2008

"Slowly I Turned, Step By Step, Inch By Inch...It has been quite some time since we've had a little check in on foreign sector buying of US financial assets. We have a fair number of charts here that will kick things off and do most of the talking, so we'll try to keep discussion commentary relatively brief...

We know the foreign community has been large buyers of US Treasury securities for many, many years now. What has changed over time is the complexion of the ownership base. As we've documented to you in the past, in recent years both China and petro money have been the most meaningful buyers at the margin. From near $50 billion in 2000, China is now the proud owner of just shy of $500 billion in UST's. As you can see below, on a twelve month rate of change basis, foreign buying of Treasuries has been in slow decline for some time now. Over the last few years this really has not been an issue for the Treasury market as a slowing US economy has created an environment where there has been plenty of domestic sponsorship for Treasuries as an asset class holding for sheer performance reasons. As you already know, this has accelerated meaningfully since the summer of last year as broader US credit market troubles have witnessed an anomalistic move into Treasuries simply for the reason of capital preservation, the most primary investment rationale of them all.

But what has also happened as of late, as credit market turmoil continues to boil, is that Treasury auctions of the last month or so have experienced a paucity of foreign buyers show up to bid. Let's put it this way, if this trend of lackluster response to Treasury auctions on the part of the foreign community were to continue near term for whatever reason, we could indeed be looking at a serious issue for Treasury yields (meaning they have fallen too far to the downside to attract foreign interest). We'll just have to see what happens...

Okay, let's wrap this up with one final composite view of life that, at least to us, sure as heck appears to be sending one very strong message. If we sum up the foreign sector purchases of all Treasuries, agencies, corporate bonds and US equities, we arrive with exactly what you see below - the total composite of foreign sector purchasing of all US financial asset over time. Again, although it's our interpretation, the message appears crystal clear - a growing lack of confidence. Perhaps a very meaningful diminution of confidence in the US on the part of the foreign community. But quite importantly, to be a bit more specific, what we see below is showing us a growing lack of confidence in US credit markets. That is what is really being displayed below as foreign buying of US equities really has not fallen off all that much as of late...



Whether it's due to the underlying character of the asset classes themselves, the integrity of the US financial system in general, the southern trajectory of the US economy in terms of its ability to support these asset classes as investments, or a little bit of all of the above, this loss of confidence is a critical undermining feature of both current and forward support of US financial assets. We really do not know why this has not garnered much more attention in the mainstream financial community. You already know by what has happened in recent months stateside that confidence is probably THE most critical support to the investment process and US financial asset prices broadly. We simply cannot emphasize this enough. Although we have not covered the international capital flow data for some time now, you can trust we'll be checking in regularly from now on and briefly updating you. This change in foreign community sentiment is not to be ignored nor dismissed as unimportant. Without sounding the melodramatic alarm bells, we need to remember that the US economy remains meaningfully dependent on foreign credit and capital availability. In one sense, just like the Carlyle Partnership, Thornburg REIT and Bear Stearns remained very heavily dependent on the ongoing ability of these firms to access liquidity at any time...until, of course, it really didn't matter anymore at all."




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. We ignored the clear lesson we should have learned from the USSR collapse.
Now we're going through our own version of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. And it's sad that so few speak about this issue and ignore
what has happened before.

:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. One lesson I have learned from history is...
we don't learn from history.

All those soldiers killed and maimed in Vietnam, and for what? I had hoped all this time that we at least would have learned a valuable lesson. But no. Now we have Vietnam all over again, except with sand.

I hoped we would have learned from Nixon's abuse of power. But now we have Nixon on steroids who is much worse at abusing power. Yet we sit idly by and do nothing while FISA, which was specifically put in place to prevent Nixonian abuses, is dismantled.

Saint Ronnie and his tax cuts for rich people didn't do anything but make the very rich very much richer, and drive up debt. Yet we have failed to challenge the trickle-down propaganda, which has been endlessly repeated as fact by media whores, on behalf of the richest 10% with whom they empathize. Now we are ruined again by tax cuts for the wealthy elite, of a much greater magnitude than even Saint Ronnie would have imagined.

And on top of all that we just have to keep expanding our colonial empire, launching one monster aircraft carrier after the other, each named after yet another loser Republican president, to plow the seven seas and hazard every nation that even seems like someday it might do something we don't like. The USSR's collapse was a wonderful opportunity to beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. But we blew it. We deserve whatever befalls us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You are SO right, not only have we not learned, we are in a
Edited on Thu May-01-08 12:04 PM by slipslidingaway
more precarious position in many ways and only a few have the nerve to speak out and far fewer the nerve to act.

Important topics, even here at DU, are tossed aside for the more sensational topics.

A recent thread on the topic below received few replies and the FISA discussion has dropped dramatically, we need only look at the Senate votes on FISA and the lack of discussion by both candidates for clues as to how that will turn out.

:shrug:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a094x7Qa8Qeo

"U.S. Navy Reviving Fleet for Latin America, Caribbean (Update1)

By Nadine Elsibai

April 24 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Navy plans to re-establish its Fourth Fleet, disbanded in 1950, to oversee ships, aircraft and submarines operating in the Caribbean and Central and South America, a Defense Department statement said...

The U.S. Navy has been planning to build up its forces in the region. Admiral James Stavridis, who oversees military affairs for Latin America, told Congress on March 6 that he backs plans to designate a new fleet, led by a nuclear aircraft carrier, to patrol the waters of the Caribbean and Latin America in support of counter-terrorism operations..."


Sadly I agree.


"...The USSR's collapse was a wonderful opportunity to beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. But we blew it. We deserve whatever befalls us..."




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Give this economic forum a look
It's got the ugliest color scheme I've ever seen but if you believe in economic populism you'll probably like it.

http://www.unlawflcombatnt.proboards84.com/index.cgi?

And if you want your OPs to get noticed, next time you post one use this as your subject: SHOCKING NUDE PICTURES OF MILEY CYRUS!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks for the link and the tip for future subject titles :) ....
honestly all these numbers make my head spin, but I try and at least read some information to hopefully avoid any major pitfalls as far as investments are concerned.

Thanks again, I'll give it look :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Oh well then, you're gonna love The Economic Populist
They have helped me understand a lot of the numbers whizzing around my tiny little brain. And since you have an inquiring mind, you can help us too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks for the additional comment on the link...
and I will give it a look, although I'm not sure my brain can process any additional economic discussions :)

Over the years, since early 2000, I've come to trust the monthly comments at Contrary Investor because they have discussed what is not being told in the MSCM and look for early signs of strength or weakness before the news hits.


See my brief comments here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3267466&mesg_id=3268034

Thanks again for the link and for keeping the thread kicked.

:hi:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Social Security...."The payroll cap is our friend"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3092956&mesg_id=3094720


From your link and back to DU :)


Some worthwhile comments on NOT raising the payroll cap for anyone else who may have missed them on the above thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unlawflcombatnt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. SS Cap
I reviewed the thread you referred to about the Social Security cap. The author of that thread implied that some (or all) of investment income is not subject to Payroll Tax. Is that correct? If that's true, what are the details on that? What types of income are not subject to Social Security/Payroll Tax?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Not sure I could list all income types that are not subject to
SS tax, but one does not pay SS tax on gains from the sale of stocks.

Sorry for the late reply and thanks for the other link :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Only wage income is subject to SS tax. You & your employer
Edited on Sun May-04-08 02:41 AM by Hannah Bell
each pay 1/2 the tax on your wages up to ~90K. (That's not exact, but it's close, I'm too lazy to look it up right now.)

Basically, no other income categories are assessed SS taxes but wage income. Capital gains & other investment income don't get SS taken out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unlawflcombatnt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. Last Treasury Report Shows a $300 billion increase over last year
So far, it looks like foreign holdings of US Treasuries have still been increasing over the last year, as of February 2008, by about $300 billion. Japan has divested somewhat, but other countries have made up the difference.

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. New I-bond rate - 0.00%
Who the heck would buy one?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Not sure n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC