Time for a Religion Board on DU?

[CaptainClark23]

Maybe a film review board too...

or maybe this whole tempest will fade soon so we can get back to the matters at hand....like trying to take our Nation back.

without downplaying the personal importance of the issues being discussed over the past few days, it distresses me to see how easily we divide ourselves.

One would think that given the nature and severity of the continuing onslaught against Democracy in this country, that we would have learned by now not to let ourselves get cattled into arguing irreconcilable issues. That we would have learned through our continued discussions here to know when to just walk away. To know how to comport ourselves and our arguments in a manner which does not lead to petty name calling and injured pride.

We are slamming the hell out eachother over issues which of course touch upon the cultural wars we are engaged in, but which are at their core, a matter of personal choice and belief.

Can we go back to work now? The freepers must be laughing their damn fool heads off at this point.

[enki23]

1. it'll fade. always does.

tis' an ill wind which blows no minds. it's probably just an ill wind. lot of fun while it rages though.

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. It doesn't fade

And the comments that were made this day won't be forgotten.

[CaptainClark23]

5. thats what I'm talking about

these discussions are dividing us.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. I agree

But many of us who are religious are being made to feel unwelcome, not just here at DU, but in the Democratic Party.

That bodes ill for the party even in the short term. If a radical anti-religious agenda becomes prominent, the African-American community will flee the party in droves.

[markses]

10. When the Prez backs a constitutional amendment against you

Come back with the martyr complex.

[Dob Bole]

15. Think you're missing the point...

We're all opposed to the President's amendment. But apparently only some of us are opposed to the de-facto "STFU rule" on DU Christians.

Not taking it anymore.

[Dob Bole]

11. And other minorities, I'm afraid...

We'll be left with, essentially only DU- white suburban angsty people.

[ulysses]

17. how???

But many of us who are religious are being made to feel unwelcome, not just here at DU, but in the Democratic Party.

:shrug:

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Where have you been?

Haven't you seen the vitriol and abuse aimed at Christians and other religious folk here?

The same happens out in the real world.

[ulysses]

35. ok, so it happens in the real world.

We live in a society that's more than a little schizo about its religion. I don't see how *societal* vitriol translates into Christians being drummed out of the Democratic Party.

And if you think the current "bashing" is bad, you should've been here for the flame wars a couple of years ago.

[drdigi420]

28. its okay for them to make us non believers feel unwelcome

just not the other way around

[noiretextatique]

18. i am not religious

and i am african-american. i detest the prevalence of religion in so much of the current political debate...it is divisive.

[Muddleoftheroad]

21. Nevertheless it's there

Religion is the foundation for what many of us believe and how we vote.

[noiretextatique]

23. really? then why not vote for bush?

he's supposedly a christian man.
is there something that underlies even religion...perhaps values, that are not specific to any religion? whatever that is...it guides me in voting for those who will do the greatest good, or at the very least, those who will do the least harm. and i rarely set foot in any church, and i have never read the bible :shrug:

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. Because I am Christian

He merely claims to be.

[noiretextatique]

25. LOL: touche! on that note my friend...

i bid you farewall for the day :hi:
and if i see those christian-bashers attacking you...i will give them a piece of my mind. peace.

[sendero]

29. Oh boy...

... why bother.

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. Theology

I don't seek to do anything with theology. But religious belief is part of who most of us are. If you don't like it, too bad.

[Exultant Democracy]

26. There has never been nor ever will be

an anti-religious agenda in our party. On the other hand there is and should be a non-religious agenda. The plane fact is that you can not have an agenda that favors or supports one religion without being biased against another. The fact is that African Americans are not a religiously unified group, but they are unified by the color of their skin. If you are not white in America then not voting democratic (at a national level) is just about the most foolish thing you can do.

On the other hand I fully support African Americans voting for their own third parties in local and even state elections when prudent.

[Solon]

33. How are you made to feel unwelcome in the Democratic Party?

I can understand DU, we are not mainstream nor do we pretend to be. (how boring would that be?) I have not seen evidence in either the media, Democratic Party Conventions, or in personal experience of any Christian Bashing, criticizing, or even lack of faith in the leadership. Christianity gets a free pass in the US and that is not entirely right or wrong either, no other religious group in general gets such preferential treatment in this country, in either party. So to say that you feel unwelcome due to you being Christian is ridiculous. Imagine how I feel in American Politics, you don't see any of the leaders in the party praising Gaea or anything do you? If anything I should be the one who feels unwelcome, for I have no support at all on either the local or national level within the party.

[AlanInDallas]

38. Oh come on now...

No one is deliberately making anyones religious views seem wrong.
I would rank this argument up there with the old Cold War rhetoric that the Dems were becoming Soviet style socialist and that they would be coming to take your bible and shut down your church. Now any reasonable person knows that this argument is B.S. Come on now, the majority of this country is Christian and with all the other various religions that call the US home, no one is going to make Atheism a state "non-religion". One might argue that the only problem here is the one that is being created by rhetoric.

Alan

[markses]

9. Martyrs never forget, yeah?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[markses]

36. Who said anything about atheists?

I'm quite sure ceaseless whining and completely baseless bellyaching comes from atheists and Christians alike. The victimology complex displayed by some of the Christians on this board in the last few days is one of the most laughable displays I've ever seen on the Internet.

"Not gonna take it anymore!! Waaaah!"

Please. If some folks didn't have something to get their precious feelings hurt about they wouldn't have anything to do at all. And that some it comes from the "I'll-be-happy-to-throw-the-switch-myself" crowd only makes it more comical.

Don't like it? There's the ignore key, ace. Fucking deal.

[Dob Bole]

2. I'd like one...

But it would probably get named "personal beliefs" board or something, to emphasize that it's something we should really be ashamed of and keep to ourselves. :(

[Cleita]

4. Don't really care what

the freepers are laughing about. Religion is a Constitutional issue and therefore it makes it a political one. They will have to thank us one of these days for preserving their right to worship whatever way they want to or if they suddenly find that their religion isn't the favored one, we can say we told them so.

[CaptainClark23]

7. freepers were not the point of the post, obviously

I too could really give a fuck about them. Its the people here and what we collectively stand for that concerns me. perhaps I should have left that editorial comment out.

The point is the division of DU'ers, at a time when they need to be united.

But nevermind, in three responses I've seen enough to tell me what I wanted to know.

same old story of every movement...

[Cleita]

8. Freepers weren't the point of my post either. My point was

that religion is a political issue. It is divisive and needs to be addressed. I am old enough to remember when feminism was an equally divisive issue, but both parties have come closer to a realistic tolerance of women's rights. I'm sure it will occur with religion too, but the birth pangs of religious and non-religious rights will be painful.

[CaptainClark23]

16. ok, I'll go with that

obviously, religion itself is a political issue, and is at the heart of many other seemingly unrelated issues.

But there comes a point when debate and discussion of it breaks down completely, and not only ceases to be a productive means of progress and enlightnement, but actually becomes a cancerous rot pitting us one against the other.

This is what bothers me. We can't afford to fragment ourselves at this critical juncture of history. We need to be oh so careful now..there is so much at stake for all of us.

Again, at some point the discussion breaks down, and we should then be able to have the discussion in a forum seperate from the general forum. Because at that point it is no longer about political relevance, but about personal belief. This will also allow the debaters to bang out their differences without "piling on" of half-interested observers who really have nothing of interest or substance to contribute.

thanks for listening.

[ulysses]

12. no.

Religion is wrapped up in too many other issues. If we separated into its own forum everything that made people twitchy, we'd never be able to discuss anything.

[CaptainClark23]

19. Not complete seperation

Not all economic threads take place in the econ forum, nor all 9.11 threads, nor environmental threads, etc....

But having those seperate forums gives those particularly interested in those matters a place where they can discuss such in closer detail, without opening the debate to everyone who happens to be browsing the latest news, etc.

It is indeed too connected to seperate, but the arguments which divide us are not about the issues, but about religion itself.

[wicket]

13. Yes, please!

That would be very cool

[Bake]

22. I doubt many people of faith would venture in there

I know I woulnd't. Why go looking for a fight?

Bake

[drdigi420]

27. YES!!!!! most definately

because apparently you cant say anything non christian here without being alerted and blocked

[nomatrix]

30. I agree Capt. but there already is one

on the
Civil Rights/Equality
Constitution, Race, Gender, Sexual Orientation, Reproductive Rights, Religious Liberty, Arts, Etc.

Religious Liberties? Isn't that the correct thread.

Another thread is under
Foreign Affairs/Millitary
then to
Palestine/Israeli

There are several threads on the Passion. Unless the mod's want to announce this, very few will venture.

The General Discussion thread is for political topics.

[CaptainClark23]

34. so there is...

I even read that board on occasion, but never did catch that Religious Liberty was among its topics.

thanks for pointing that out to us, maybe I'll ask if the mods can move this thread there, just on principle.

[sendero]

32. Yes....

... give it a place it can stay - for those who are interested. Frankly, I think the professional disruptors have found another wedge they can jam between Dems.

[cprise]

37. No, it's outside of DU's scope (politics)

There must be a good discussion board for the religious left out there...

[swinney]

39. Religion Board There is one

Methodist Minister has
www.liberalslikechrist.org

good

[Kholst]

40. interesting article

I wouldn't call it a great article or anything, but seemingly relevant (though since I just joined I have no idea what this is about)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4408614/


If anyone seriously is interested in a religious board, I like truthseekerhaven.com and the religious section of answerpool.com. Neither one is particularly active, but mostly thoughtful people of a variety of combinations of religious and political persuasions.