Internet freedom is threatened, and we MUST be prepared to defend it!!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

This opening post contains posts transferred from a DU Lounge thread started by Duer bowens43 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2644995#)
Title: "Hannity trashes Freerepublic , freepers going wild.".

Many hilarious remarks follow. However, I posted replies on the Hannity thread to raise the issue that, like some other recent moves by corporate media figures, this could well be a step in a planned campaign with the ultimate goal of setting up legislation to suppress freedom of the internet. Because the ensuing discussion is quite different from the one on the freepers’ responses to Hannity’s actions, with far more serious potential, I was asked by two posters to start another thread for this discussion.

This is that thread. I will begin it by pasting the relevant posts from the earlier thread.

I do believe that a DU Group should be added to the Media Forum on PRESERVING INTERNET FREEDOM. Whatever Hannity’s real reasons for acting has he has toward FreeRepublic, this is an extremely serious subject and needs brainstorming, watchdogging, and action.
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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
73. Funny, but this has a more sinister side: part of anti-internet campaign

The Howie Kurtz and Wolfie Blitzer travesties on the "Gannon" scandal, as well as the Jan 19 special by Ted Koppel on how "internet bloggers" talking about the election being stolen are total whackos all share a common theme: "The internet is not a reliable source of news, you cannot trust it, and people who use it regularly are dangerous and will invade your privacy."

From this carefully framed position it will be a short step to new laws to suppress freedom of information access and expression on the internet.

The administration has obvious reasons for wanting to stifle dissent and activism and prevent evidence of their corruption being found and exposed. The corporate media are threatened as well by the growing reliance on the internet for news. So, it's natural that these two (really one in many senses) forces join to take steps to suppress their common enemy: freedom on the internet.

Hannity doesn't give a damn about the conservative blogs, he wants the WHOLE INTERNET to be stifled. What can Free Republic do for Hannity that his handlers in the blivet** administration can't do better? Besides, we're supposed to be impressed by his 'high standards" in badmouthing the whole internet scene. It's the latest in-thing for corporate media shills to do.

I think this anti-internet pattern is part of a planned campaign, and I think we need to watchdog it and make our own plans to counter it.
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Whoa....good point.

That might be something that should concern the posters on all the RW posting sites as well.

We should see who else starts picking up on this riff in the corporate media.
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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. Yes, but not only in the corporate media. Also speeches by politiciansEdited on Wed Feb-16-05 05:28 PM by Nothing Without Hope

We should be watching for telling phrases in line with this framing language appearing in speeches by neocon congressmen and other prominent Rethug supporters:
"liberal bloggers"
"internet bloggers"
"internet liberals"
"left-wing bloggers"
...and so on

in conjunction with negative language like
"invasion of privacy"
"unreliability" and similar words
"distortions and lies" and similar words
"dangerous"
"out of control"
"over the line"
...and so on.

And if we ever see the words "internet conspiracy" or "blogger plots" or anything like that, we are in BIG TROUBLE. Suppressive laws are almost certainly being discussed secretly now and can very quickly be passed by the Rethug-dominated Congress. They don't need the RW blogs and discussion boards, but they can be hurt by the growing progressive activism on the internet like DU. They won't blink an eye at trashing all of it.

I feel strongly that we should be actively watchdogging this and countering the disinformation campaign about the internet NOW. It's part of the aggressive "get the truth out in spite of the corporate media" campaign that we should be pushing hard.
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #81
97. I waded through a lot of the posts at FR to see if anyone brought

this point up (from their perspective). As you can suspect, they are quite focused on the immediate issue and not really thinking this through.
I totally agree....the RW blogs are expendable. By the time these clueless understand that it's about freedom of speech/information sharing and pitting the criminals against the liberals AND conservatives, it will be too late.

I'd love it if someone would post this perspective over there......
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BronxBoy (28 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #73
108. Excellent Point n/t
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CAcyclist (940 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #73
141. The Electronic Freedom Foundation could use support

http://www.eff.org
They have been out front fighting against proposed internet taxes and other infringements and they'll be the first to get wind of anything serious.
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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #141
161. Thanks for this important link! This looks to be a key resource

They must have had to take second choice for domain name, because they're the "Electronic Frontier Foundation," though the word "freedom" is very prominent on their web site:

EFF is a nonprofit group of passionate people — lawyers, technologists, volunteers, and visionaries — working to protect your digital rights.
Our Mission: If America's founding fathers had anticipated the digital frontier, there would be a clause in the Constitution protecting your rights online, as well.

Instead, a modern group of freedom fighters was necessary to extend the original vision into the digital world.

That's where the Electronic Frontier Foundation comes in.

Just as Patriots fought for liberty and freedom, we fight measures that threaten basic human rights. Only the dominion we defend is the vast wealth of digital information, innovation, and technology that resides online.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation is a group of passionate people — lawyers,technologists, volunteers, and visionaries — working in the trenches, battling to protect your rights and the rights of web surfers everywhere. The dedicated people of EFF challenge legislation that threatens to put a price on what is invaluable; to control what must remain boundless.

Electronic Frontier Foundation: Because being able to share ideas and information is the reason the Web was created in the first place!
----------------------------------------------------
CAcyclist  (942 posts) Thu Feb-17-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #161
177. Also Annalee Newitz

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/19514

I can't open two windows at the same time on this computer, so forgive me if I misspelt any names. Annalee is a tech columnist who frequently writes about political threats to the internet and other threats like this column about the FCC. She's a must-read.
----------------------------------------------------
Spiffarino (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #73
151. Have you started a thread on this topic?

You should. You're scarin' the crap out of me.
-----------------------------------------------------
Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #151
158. No, but you're the 2nd person who's asked. So I will.

Tonight or tomorrow AM I'll start a different thread and copy over the relevant posts from this (largely unrelated) thread. I'll put it in the Media Forum and post a link here in this thread so that anyone interested can go there to continue the discussion after I've set up the link. Until then, go ahead and keep posting on this subject here -- I'll transfer the posts to the new thread when I set it up.

Yes, I'm very, very scared about this too. But I figure it's better to be scared and prepared than miss anticipating such a deadly countermove against progressive activism by the neocon cartel.

I feel it's not a matter of IF they will try to suppress internet freedom, it's a question of WHEN and HOW. We need to brainstorm and watchdog and be prepared when they make their move.

One of the ways to prepare is to GET THE TRUTH OUT ABOUT INTERNET-BASED NEWS AND ACTIVISM so that it's harder for them to sell their lies about it. We need to come up with more ways to do this. I'm going to work toward starting a DU Group dealing with optimizing getting the truth out to people who don't already get their news from the internet. Maybe internet freedom protection could be discussed there as well; there are many related issues in the two subject areas.
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tishaLA (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
79. Hannity loves Ann Coulter

and he calls FReepers childish and fringe? He loves Falwell and Dobson and he calls FReepers childish and fringe?

Doesn't he know his audience?
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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. The RW internet posters are NOT his audience, and he is distancing himselfEdited on Wed Feb-16-05 06:07 PM by Nothing Without Hope

As I said in a couple of earlier replies on this thread, I think this shows distancing of Hannity from internet-based information and activism IN GENERAL. He doesn't need the freepers, he just needs the support of the corporate media and the blivet** administration. And I believe these two (really one) forces have already begun a campaign designed to culminate in repressive legislation against internet freedom. They'll ditch the freepers without a qualm if it means they can also wipe out progressive internet use.

Progressive internet information access and political activism has become more than a mere nuisance to the powers in corporate media and government and they mean to suppress them. THIS IS SERIOUS.
Edited to clarify what I am trying to say:

The RW internet posters represent a very small part of Hannity's market. He can lose them without a problem. His REAL audience are the Bush voters, and he has to please the blivet** administration and the corporate media. Distancing himself from "internet bloggers" is a calculated step, I believe, and the ejection of the Free Republic posters is a small sacrifice toward the goal of outlawing ALL freedom of the internet.

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sparky_in_ma (940 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Very good point!

I hadn't looked at it that way. (it is fun to watch this week, first Gannon, now Hannity. I've got to hit the I believe thread today.)
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #87
100. Suggest starting a separate thread on this subject.

I'm afraid that the top story (Hannity vs. FR) will drown out the more important aspect that you raise. I think the internet is a big threat to the interests of the few who are dominating our lives through control of government and the corporate media.

We need to really watch this story unfold in this context. I'll be interested if Rush starts to tack away from his internet dittoheads as well.
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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #100
154. OK, I'll start a new thread later tonight or tomorrow and link to it here

I'll copy the relevant posts (on the idea that internet freedom is being threatened) from this thread and put them into the newer thread somehow. I think the Media Forum might be a reasonable place for it. Please let me know if you have any suggestions on this.
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BronxBoy (28 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #87
110. I have a question...Edited on Wed Feb-16-05 07:15 PM by BronxBoy

Do you think that the Internet can truly be suppressed? I've often heard people say that the Internet is too large and expansive to be stifled but your comments do make one wonder. I have always felt that the Internet was a relatively new tool in the hands of people and that as they became more sophisticated and discerning in it's use and of the quality of the information to be had on it, it would truly become a true tool of free expression. How do you think it can be stifled and what should we look for in terms of potential legislation?
edited to spelling
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sparky_in_ma (940 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. One really easy way would be a tax.

A very large tax on internet providers, or discussion forums, which would get passed on to the user by making most all sites pay sites. Or tax individuals by usage amounts, monitored through ISP's. That's not tin foil, such concepts have really been discussed.
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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #110
123. Yes, I think the internet can be suppressed. They control the governmentEdited on Wed Feb-16-05 08:22 PM by Nothing Without Hope

Exactly how this suppression might take place is something that I think should be a subject of brainstorming, questions to media experts, and intense watchdogging of corporate media and Rethug-sympathizing government figures -- members of Congress, judges, White House employees, DOJ and DOD spokespeople, Homeland Security, and so on.

A tax would be an easy starting point and I do expect to see a law with some form of internet tax as part of another bill soon.

But what I am REALLY expecting as the excuse to shut down internet freedom is some form of scare tactic, that "TERRORISTS" can use the internet to get info that can be used to attack the country. The Rethug framing themes now are

(1) the internet is not reliable as a source of information for regular people (subtext: you don't need the internet, folks) and
(2) "internet bloggers" can invade your privacy and persecute you (subtext: if wacko libruls can do it, what about TERRURISTS??)

I am expecting the most poisonous attack to come from the direction of HOMELAND SECURITY. They are already trying to pass legal code that set aside freedoms and other laws any time it's "necessary" to "protect homeland security." They might even set up a faux "terrorist attack" a la 9/11 and demonstrate prominently that it could not have been accomplished without the internet. That's what I expect.

They are trying to drum up fear and revulsion for internet use, and there is no way this is a coincidence with the growing power of internet-based activism to be able to resist them and expose their corruption.

Edited to highlight the last two paragraphs and add:
Welcome to DU, Bronxboy! You ask good questions! We may not have all the answers, but we're damn well not giving up on getting the important ones. Glad to have you joining the good fight.
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teachermarie (12 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #87
125. Sadly, I think you're right. Something else is going on here.

Feb. 14 Drudge had as one of his top headlines.

Search engine is cash engine for Democrats

WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 (UPI) -- Employees of U.S.-based search
engine Google gave $207,650 to federal candidates for the
2004 elections -- virtually all of it to Democrats.

A USA Today analysis published Monday indicated 98 percent of
the money went to Democrats, the most-lopsided giving of any
of the top tech company donors.

Microsoft was the biggest tech donor, with its political
action committee contributing $3.1 million last year, 60
percent to Democrats.

Overall, 53 percent of high-tech industry contributions went
to Democrats, said the liberal Center for Responsive
Politics, a group that tracks campaign spending and
contributions.
<snip>
Not a very long article but someone seems upset that the
internet is not under any thought control. Sounds like a
tin-foil hat theory but Rove would sleep better at night if
every information outlet was owned by those "on
message".

http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/02140004aaa027d2.upi&Sys=rmmiller&Fid=NATIONAL&Type=News&Filter=National%20News
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LiberalCompassionate (18 posts) Wed Feb-16-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #87
145. I agree

this is the start of suppressing freedom of the internet. A fabricated threat will materialize (see today's news on CIA Goss' terrer warnin) that, surprise, will result in patriot act III - internet reform.

We need to brainstorm ideas on preemptive action; either to stall this "reform" and/or alternate communication outlets.

Better yet, getting elections credible may just be the necessary first step. Then the Democratic Party can gain a foothold and restore checks and balances. Till then, we, the "internet fringe" are the last remnants of American democracy.

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Nothing Without Hope (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #145
163. I agree. WE SHOULD START A DU GROUP ON PRESERVING INTERNET FREEDOMEdited on Wed Feb-16-05 10:46 PM by Nothing Without Hope

That makes TWO groups I think should be started. The other one, which I've discussed with a few people already, is one on optimizing modes of getting the truth (as opposed to the corporate media propaganda) out to the public who do NOT use the internet as their source of information as well as organizing LTTE and other campaigns to blast lawmakers, newspapers and other media.

At first I thought this Preserving Internet Freedom Group could be part of the other group, but the more I think of it, the more I believe it should stand alone. The Media Forum would seem to be the natural place to put it. What do you people think?
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[Kerrytravelers]

1. I fully expect Du and other similar sites to have trouble in the next...

few years. I wouldn't be surprised if freepers come on here, say a bunch of stupid threatening statements against * and get sites like this shut down.

I have notived WAY more pop up ads slowing down my computer on liberal sites rather than non-political or freeper site. This may be a coincidence... or maybe not.

Let me take off my tin foil hat for better reception :bounce:

[Nothing Without Hope]

2. On this topic I think we should all keep our tinfoil hats ON!

I don't think we are paying enough attention to the subject of how we are going to protect our freedom to use the internet from suppression by the blivet** administration. The attacks will be coming; in fact I believe the preliminary salvos have already been fired in the peculiar attacks on internet reliability and the recent claims, for example by Howie Kurtz, that "liberal bloggers" savagely invaded the personal privacy of JimJeff GannonGuckert and drove him from his position as respected White House journalist because of his political beliefs.

We need to watchdog what the corporate media and the administration thugs say, we need to organize our resources to respond, and we need to be prepared when the major smear campaign and attempt to legislate suppression hit.

I do believe we should form a DU Group on "Preserving Internet Freedom." If enough interest can be gathered, I can take a stab at a draft mission statement.

Freedom of information access and intercommunication on the internet is one of the last hopes for saving democracy in this country. It's going to be taken away if we don't protect it. It's not a question of IF, it's WHEN and HOW. Brainstorming, resource identification, and planning are urgently needed.

[Kerrytravelers]

3. Preserving Internet Freedom

I'd join this group.

Tin foil hat wearers unite!

[Nothing Without Hope]

4. Thanks for your support. I'll work toward setting up the Group.

It's past 2 AM here on the East Coast, so I can't do any more tonight. I'm hoping this can stir up some interest tomorrow despite the ultralong opening post.

Good night!
:boring:

[buzzard]

16. I am not that computer/internet literate but *sh can't control the

entire www so how would he stop US citizens from setting up sites hosted out of other countries. Help me with this if you can, I can see them trying to suppress freedom of speech in your country but not worldwide.

[sparky_in_ma]

18. Now you've made me think globally : )

I was going to respond to original poster, but your comment made me look at the subject in a larger perspective. That's why I like DU, and established media outlets distrust us.

Knowledge is power. Those in power wish to keep it. The simplest way is to control information that the citizens receive. A less educated citizenry is more malleable, and easily swayed by a 15 second sound byte. Control the flow of knowledge, and a citizens access to it, and it is easy to shape government. This basic need, by those in power, knows no international boundaries. The leaders of the old Soviet Union were masters at it, there was only the official state media. I don't see a complete return to such a blatant style of control, but just watch the "different" U.S. media outlets and you'll see little difference in stories, or the "spin" connected to them, between outlets.

If a greater degree of control over the flow of knowledge could be achieved in the U.S., other governments would take notice. It is the nature of the political beast to want and consolidate more power. I don't think any country is immune. Should a way be perfected to control citizens while allowing them the illusion of freedom, few governments will pass up the chance.

Taxes are the most efficient way to control the masses, without overtly denying people access to information. Should high taxes on your ISP, which get passed on to you, cause you to drop your internet connection, you're left with just the MSM for information.

If allowed too continue it would create a greater disparity in "classes". There would be a wealthy educated class, and an uneducated working class, known in wealthy circles as the servant class. Just look at the smirks on the faces of members of the current U. S. administrations faces, they already see us that way.

A free sharing of knowledge will always remain a threat to those kind of individuals. That's why affordable internet access, world-wide, is important.

Thank You for looking at the idea in a global perspective.:thumbsup:

[The_Nick]

5. The opening salvo...

The real opening salvo was the Bush comment during the debates regarding the draft.

"There's rumors on the internets..."

Those "rumors" Bush spoke of were based on a FACTUAL FOI Act release of an SSS memo. This really does need a serious watchdog group. I see it all the time on the local news: "Don't use the internet!! (unless you're giving up your credit card number to get a free iPod!"

Stupid.

[Nothing Without Hope]

6. Welcome to DU, The_Nick!! Whatever number salvo, the game's afoot

It's a treat to see someone so new to the site. I hope you find it as encouraging, stimulating, entertaining, informative and supportive as I have. And that's a TALL ORDER.

I'll be back here tomorrow night to see about taking steps to try to gather more interest in this subject. I think it's a must.

For now, good night!
:boring:

[Old and In the Way]

7. Glad to see you reposted under it's own thread.

This subject should be near and dear to the whole community. I hope we can get a group forum to track this issue.

If it happens, I suspect it will be soon, as they'd want to pull this off before the 2006 mid-terms.....and with the full weight of the corporate media happily supporting it.

I agree with the earlier poster that they'll use the "T" word to justify their actions. Or maybe we'll start seeing the Christian Right start talking it up as the Devil's typewriter or some such non-sense, maybe both.

Best to go on a pre-emptive offensive now...this is the last bastion of free speech and we shouldn't be surprised when the shelling starts.

[Nothing Without Hope]

8. Thanks! I'd be grateful for your support in getting this new Group set up

You must know some people who would be interested, and I know some and can guess some others. We need ten donating members and a passable mission statement. I don't think either thing is going to be an issue, it just needs doing.

I do believe we have similar views of the importance of this subject. So do a lot of other people at DU and elsewhere. We need to get ourselves together and in motion.

OK, this time I'm REALLY, REALLY, REALLY going to turn off my computer for the night.

Thanks again and good night!

[BronxBoy]

10. I'm a relative newcomer here

but let me know in what way I can contribute.

[Nothing Without Hope]

14. We'll get to that!

I think a list of useful tasks will be one of the good things coming out of the brainstorming and initial info/resource gathering for this project.

Your contribution will be very welcome! Unless we act as a community, we cannot succeed.

[BronxBoy]

9. Not to sound paranoid or anything....

but how much should one reveal about oneself on the net. I work in IT and am by no means a Pollyanna when it comes to the Internet but I actually wonder if the very people who are working to suppress free speech on the Internet are also looking for ways to gather information on those who are opposed to their policies. Is this a valid fear and what should be done about it if it is?

This is a great thread by the way.

[Old and In the Way]

11. I wouldn't devulge any personal info.

More so to protect yourself from getting crank call/e-mails from some wack-job Bushbot supporter. But your free speech is protected...as long as you don't advocate certain actions that might warrant a visit from the SS.

The darkside forces won't try to shut you up personally....but that doesn't mean they won't try to stifle our collective ability to use the internet to educate, fundraise, and organize. This medium is the real threat to their undemocratic power.

Everyday their ability to control the national dialogue and maintain their status quo erodes. Fact is, our opposition to their bankrupt and immoral governance is growing in terms of both numbers and solidarity of purpose.

As Ben Franklin said (I think and paraphrase) in opposing another mad King George- "we must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately".

Welcome aboard!

[Nothing Without Hope]

13. Well said.

I have to leave my computer for the rest of the day, but tonight I'll be back and try to pick up the process of taking these ideas forward. I've PMed UnderstandingLife and he says he'll think about the proposal of forming a "Preserving Internet Freedom" DU Group and give his opinions.

[Nothing Without Hope]

12. Paranoia can be a healthy response, but if we hesitate too much we LOSE

There is no doubt that DU threads are watched not only by blivet** supporters like freepers, but also journalists (or faux journalists) and government agents as well. The first just can't resist since they have no ideas of their own, the second because that's where the stories seem to be breaking these days, and the third not only to know our plans and activities but also to watch for any signs of some kind of assassination plot or other attack. (That last is only reasonable. Like "joking" about hijacking while on an airplane, we should never make serious-sounding jokes about pursuing a course of violence.)

I have no experience as a political activist and my background is not in a field that would immediately "fit" like journalism or political science. But I can see clearly that if nothing is done, the last medium of free speech will be destroyed. I just can't sit back when I can participate in forming a group that can move forward with planning, brainstorming, and action on this vital front. I am a patriot after all, and I want to protect my country.

The way I see it, a central dialog of accumulating information resources, links to organizations, collection of relevant info on statements by blivet** administration spokespeople, and reports from congressional legal watchdogs as well as general discussion can and should be public. That way all of us can use it. We will not be mentioning our real names or any ID-revealing info in this public forum. We'll just have to be sensible and proceed with informed caution but firm resolve. What we are doing will harm no one and in fact is intended to help preserve democracy and the rule of constitutional law in this country.

We would be taking another step toward forming the community of internet-based progressive patriots that is so urgently needed by our sad, sick country.

Does that address any of your questions? This forum would gather news and info and aid in planning. It would not reveal personal information. We would not be some secret cabal plotting mischief. We are concerned citizens acting openly to protect our country for all its citizens, even the freepers if they only realized it.

[understandinglife]

15. I suggest you contact Skinner about organizing a concerted....

....effort to gather information on groups, organizations already addressing the issues of "internet freedom" and to have as robust a discussion as possible about what alliances might be formed for purposes of advocacy, lobbying, legislation 'watch-dog', and other types of activities focused on protecting and expanding access to information and our fellow citizens, via the net.

The "alternative to AP news organization" being formed by various internet leaders might already be a natural ally, as would efforts like Media Matters, Raw Story, ...... .

Peace.


TBO;24/7

[understandinglife]

19. Here is one angle of attack they will likely use:

Internet Fraud Threatens Economy - Secret Service

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/technology/tech-tech-security.html?


Peace.


TBO;24/7

[Nothing Without Hope]

23. Thanks, UL! This weekend I will try to get this more organized

and write a draft mission statement. Then I will feel more ready to approach Skinner with the idea. (I had hoped to get a lot done tonight, but real life intervened.) I'll PM you to let you know when I've posted a draft mission statement.

I agree - even with my superficial knowledge of internet resources I know there's a lot of potential for natural synergy with internet sites with special interest in maintaining free communication. We won't be reinventing the wheel, but with the board posting structure of this site, DU may be the easiest venue for discussing, planning, and gathering info on resources.

Thanks again and "see" you later.

[CAcyclist]

17. Some good links and some thoughts

Yes,in addition to fighting for a free internet, we should plan for a fallback method of communication.

We should establish old-fashioned phone tree lists with our friends with the aim to eventually connecting everyone together in a loose network. We should start using cellphone text messaging in addition to email because that would be an alternative way of sending a message.

The enemy will go after whatever they can't control and they can't control the internet - right now the internet is not perceived as a threat because not enough people are using it, but that is going to change.

We need to know who the people are who are already leading this fight:


ACLU Freedom Network
Issues and information presented by the American Civil Liberties Union.
http://www.aclu.org/


AmericaSpeaks
To strengthen democracy by creating mechanisms that are accessible to the public.
http://www.americaspeaks.org/


Blue Ribbon Campaign for Online Free Speech
Acting to stop Internet censorship.
which is part of:
Electronic Frontier Foundation
Working in the public interest to protect fundamental civil liberties, including privacy and freedom of expression, in the arena of computers and the Internet.
http://www.eff.org/br/


Campaign for Freedom of Information
Aims to eliminate unnecessary official secrecy.
http://www.cfoi.org.uk/index.html


Citizens Internet Empowerment Coalition
Fighting for the future of free expression in the Information age.
http://www.ciec.org/

The Freedom Forum
International foundation dedicated to free press, free speech and free spirit for all people.
http://www.freedomforum.org/


Free Expression Network
Belief that free expression and free access to the expression of others is the indispensable precondition of liberty.
http://www.freeexpression.org/


Global Internet Liberty Campaign
A coalition of civil liberties and human rights organizations.
http://www.gilc.org/index.html

International IDEA
Objective to promote and advance sustainable democracy world-wide.
http://www.idea.int/

MIT Student Association for Freedom of Expression (SAFE)
Supports freedom of speech and other forms of freedom of expression.
http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/safe/home.html

People For the American Way
Committed to defending democracy.
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/



Articles with links to good resources:
Hate and Freedom on the Internet



http://www.zpub.com/sf/hate.html

[Nothing Without Hope]

22. These links are a great start for us. Thank you!

Later on it would be good to be able to have some permanent posts set up with lists of the most important links and contact information. For now, we're still in the earliest stage and this list of resources is a great step.

Thanks again!

[CAcyclist]

24. you're welcome

I'll se what else I can do.

[sojourner]

20. Sign me up......

I'm onboard completely. This IS important and it IS urgent. I don't have much $ and not much more time but I DO have a passion for our freedoms (daily diminishing) and the blood of pioneers coursing through these veins.

Looks like you and understandinglife have it together here. Let us know what we can do!

[Nothing Without Hope]

21. Thanks, sojourner, and welcome to DU!

Your support is very welcome. We aren't yet to a point where it's clear what the list of tasks is, but we will get there. Please bookmark this thread and check back again later on or, if you have ideas, post them!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

36. Sign me up too!

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. kick - this topic needs attention and support! n/t

[sojourner]

26. Reposted from un otre thread at UR request.......

Your posts capture something that has been tickling the back of my own mind for the past few months. I've heard (but can't now recall precisely when, where or through whom) some ominous rumbles that sound to me like the fixin's of a campaign to "control" the internet. So far it's all been pretty low key, as one would expect in the beginning of such a campaign.

I'll be checking in to your diary -- hope there are enough folks alert to the dangers looming. Considering that only the Internet allows us to communicate enmasse, I think the Powers That Be are terrified of the power it gives the people (and rightly so).

[Nothing Without Hope]

28. Thanks, Sojourner. n/t

[sacxtra]

27. READY YOUR OLD BBS EH? ;o)

And um, while I got your attention.

If you voted and your vote was converted to digitized data, then it just disappeared at the speed of light.

Since no human, can see it, and no human or other can audit it. It was essentially lost.


Now you need to fill out an election/fraud complaint form.

Your right to vote was denied, because your vote was lost.

Just figure I'd say that before I get cut off.

Now. In regards to communication.

There's those old BBS's that everyone pkzip'd up after they quit.
Open em back up. Get your Y2K compliant BBS running in telnet mode.
I've ran em in windows, OS2, and Linux and they are just like they used to be. FUN.

HOPE YOU CAN STILL COMPILE A NODELIST. CAN YOU? ;o)

There's the HAM/CB radio.

If that's gone, then I guess there's nothing left but VERY LARGE SMOKE SIGNALS.

[Nothing Without Hope]

29. Kick - we CANNOT take our internet freedom for granted! n/t

[sojourner]

30. Okay...some ideas

But first, thanks to other posters for the great links to resources, and list of "watch words" to be on the alert for.

Forgive me if what I've written below is too much. I'm just sort of channeling the brainstorm here. DU is good at weeding through the storm and getting the good stuff. Hopefully there will be some fruitful ideas that can be added to what y'all have.

How about we also start to collect here a list of ways in which "they" have already begun to ramp up their effort - more of what understandinglife has posted? Reason for this approach would be to allow us to anticipate and act pre-emptively, proactively (to whatever extent possible) rather than just react.(I'm assuming that we agree on a neocon motive to "control" and/or eliminate our access to the internet, and that preliminary efforts to the process are already underway - and are possibly more urgent given the proven effects of bloggers: Rathergate, Gannongate...)

For example, I have heard, but have not yet investigated the fact - that PNAC (and the Patriot Act) has provisions that can be used to control all communication. That would include the Internet. Some questions arising from this suggestion:

What means of control does the government already have? For instance, there's the big email gobbling/screening program known as Predator, right? There are "anti-spam" regulations... Since they already have these...how can they leverage these forms of control to gain even more? What mechanisms in the government will likely be used to accomplish this?

Also, anyone here saavy about law, legislation, media regulation? If not, maybe those of us here can get some fellow DUers with such expertise to come over here and give us a hand? I notice that there are a lot of well-formed relationships amongst long-timers here.

And finally, in case anyone needs convincing that Internet control is on the radar for the goverment, here's one link to a discussion on the topic from a couple of years ago.

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/18700.html#story-start

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. Thank you again, Sojourner, for keeping this alive and adding your ideas

Tomorrow (Tuesday) I will give a shot at drafting a mission statement for the proposed Group and tell Skinner about it. It would be wonderful if he could suggest some additional DU people who would be interested and knowledgeable -- I feel this issue is extremely important and should receive special attention by DU, but it's not my own area of expertise.

When I post the draft mission statement tomorrow, I'd value your input on it.

[sojourner]

32. mm------ I head out of town

first thing in the morning. Back Thursday night...

So I won't be able to help until then, sorry. But I live here (at DU)when I'm not at work, so I'll check in on your progress when I return.

I'm grateful someone is working on this, and am happy to be of assistance. Sorry can't be there for ya tommorrow.

Good luck.

[Nothing Without Hope]

33. Have a good trip, "see" you when you get back home to DU n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

34. kick! Real Life is intervening for a time, sorry for the delay n/t

[sojourner]

35. Okay

I'm here. Will be checking back periodically.

[Nothing Without Hope]

37. Blatant censorship planned - WE MUST, MUST FIGHT!!!!

See this thread, currently on the HOme Page. It underscores the reasons why we MUST have a DU Forum on this and we MUST FIGHT.

They are trying to shut down the last Free Press in the country as well as possibly the most important form of Free Assembly.

WE MUST FIGHT!!!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

38. Sy Hersh's recent speech: Grassroots activism is vital

to save this country and the stakes are very, very high:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1637766#
Title: "Sy Hersh spoke in Louisville last night - and he scared the hell out of me"

And for "grassroots activism" to be effective, there must be a free internet. That's why the neocon monsters want to suppress it, and why we must fight to preserve and expand it.

[Nothing Without Hope]

39. Skinner may be willing to set up a FORUM on first amendment issues

This would be much better than a Group because of its higher visibility and the fact that any registered DUer (not just donating members) could post. I'm suggesting the name

Free Internet/ Free Press/ First Amendment issues

But we shall see. Here is the exchange with Skinner:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=120&topic_id=30907&mesg_id=30907

[sojourner]

40. Great!!

I'll check in on the thread-link you provided. Here's hoping the Administrators are in agreement!

[Nothing Without Hope]

41. Hi Sojourner! Thanks for your commitment to this project

I found that Groups have very limited visibility, and only DU donating members can post in them. That seemed too limited for what we need.

As you'll see, Skinner believes that this should be a Forum with a broader scope -- and I think he's right. I'm hoping that it will have a name like
Free Internet/ Free Press/ First Amendment Issues
If it's just called "First Amendment Issues" it will not get the attention it needs IMO.

I've just asked Skinner if he would mind if I started GD-P thread on the potential forum. If he doesn't object, I'll do that and post a link here. Naturally, I am hoping for your very active participation!

Thanks again and "talk" to you soon!