DLC Shifts Behind The Scenes To Kerry Camp

[DrFunkenstein]

PHILADELPHIA. — The Democrats' presidential primary war between diehard liberal activists and pragmatic party centrists intensified this week at the Democratic Leadership Council's meeting here.

Democratic pollster Mark Penn, who polled for Bill Clinton, warned of a huge "security gap" among voters who trust President Bush and the GOP to do a better job than the Democrats to safeguard national security in the war on terrorism. "If Democrats can't close the security gap, then they can't be competitive in the next election," he said.

All of them warned that the party would lose next year's elections if it did not match the president's toughness on national defense.

The big unreported story at the DLC's meeting is that Mr. From is positioning his influential DLC network to back Mr. Dean's chief rival for the presidential nomination, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry.

Mr. Kerry voted for the congressional war resolution to send forces into Iraq, but he has also been sharply critical of Mr. Bush's failure to build a much stronger coalition for the war and for his handling of postwar operations.

Still, Mr. From points to Mr. Kerry's centrism on issues such as free trade, his support for welfare reform, and hints that school choice vouchers may be worth trying on an experimental basis.

"I think Kerry could be a very effective nominee. I think Kerry could run as a New Democrat ," Mr. From told me in an interview.

The DLC does not endorse candidates, but Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. And Al From's embrace of Mr. Kerry is the closest he has come to publicly backing a candidate. Notably, he mentioned no one else in the Democratic pack.

What worries Mr. From most is the party's weakness on defense in an age of terrorism. "The problem with is that we're not in the debate on national security," he said.

But grass-roots Democrats say the party's energy and anger right now is all on the antiwar, activist left which is fueling Mr. Dean's headlong drive for the nomination. The DLC had its day with Bill Clinton's skillful political use of centrist-leaning triangulation. Now, say Mr. Dean's supporters, "it's our turn."

---

Before you get your panties in a bunch, here is some info to show that Kerry is anything but a centrist, anything but a corporate hooker. The DLC comes to Kerry on policy, not the other way around.

Here is a link to a favorable DLC article about Kerry's progressive, corporate crime-fighting economic plan:

"Kerry's long-term growth plan focused on measures that simultaneously promote fiscal discipline while encouraging the right kind of economic activity. He called for the elimination of "offshore tax havens and shelters that enable corporations and executives to evade an estimated $70 billion in taxes each year," and also recommitted himself to the legislation (itself based on a Progressive Policy Institute proposal) he earlier offered with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) to eliminate corporate subsidies in the tax code and the budget through a "base-closing commission" model.

Interestingly enough, Kerry called for elimination of a specific federal program -- the Fossil Energy Research and Development program that provides R&D for oil companies -- as part of an assault on corporate subsidies. Kerry is keeping the ball rolling in a new competition among leading Democrats to make hard choices about federal spending."

http://www.johnkerry.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6144&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

---

At Project Vote Smart:

2002 According to the National Journal - Conservative on Economic Policy's calculations, in 2002, Senator Kerry voted more conservative on economic policy issues than 0 percent of the Senators.

2001 According to the National Journal - Conservative on Economic Policy's calculations, in 2001, Senator Kerry voted more conservative on economic policy issues than 0 percent of the Senators.


<>

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103&PHPSESSID=6ffe9242b4363ab589fb36f5bae97f66#Nat.+Journal

2003 On the votes that the U.S. Public Interest Research Group considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 95 percent of the time.

2002 On the votes that the U.S. Public Interest Research Group considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 95 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the U.S. Public Interest Research Group considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 94 percent of the time.


---

Check out Kerry's record at the progressive Public Citizen (founded by Ralph Nader) - pick any year! Kerry is consistently listed in their "The Best" category. Use 02101 as a zipcode.

http://www.citizen.org/congress/voting/

---

Kerry takes heat for supporting free trade and NAFTA, but he worked hard to put real standards behind them - such as the 2002 Kerry amendment to Fast Track they described as:

"A modest reform that guaranteed much-needed changes in the NAFTA Chapter 11 investment model in future trade agreements.

Under the model, foreign investors may file a claim in secret NAFTA tribunals to seek compensation when government public interest regulations in any way diminish the value of their investment.

In doing so, the amendment would have instructed U.S. trade negotiators to ensure that future investor provisions do not grant foreign investors rights beyond what the U.S. Constitution provides.

http://action.citizen.org/pc/issues/votes/?votenum=121&chamber=S&congress=1072

---

Here he is in a tiny minority voting pro-consumer against Credit Card/Banking Industry's Bankruptcy "Reform."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0316-03.htm

---

His voting...

On the economy:

http://www.issues2000.org/Economic/John_Kerry_Budget_+_Economy.htm

On tax reform:

http://www.issues2000.org/Economic/John_Kerry_Tax_Reform.htm

On free trade:

http://www.issues2000.org/International/John_Kerry_Free_Trade.htm

On government reform:

http://www.issues2000.org/Economic/John_Kerry_Government_Reform.htm

---

His economic speech:

http://www.johnkerry.com/site/PageServer?pagename=spc_2002_1203

[quinnox]

1. Great news

I welcome this organization that can help in raising funds for Sen. Kerry. If this is true, they have picked a wonderful candidate! And one that can beat Bush.

[Cha]

2. Mr. Dean? They ain't no way that's right! He is Dr. Dean or

Govenor Dean or both!

[blm]

7. He allowed his medical license to lapse.

.

[ProfessorPlum]

9. he still has his degree

.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. Come on, blm

don't leave me hanging in the other thread . . .

[DrFunkenstein]

15. That's Against The Rules, Prof

You can't "follow" people into other threads.

[ProfessorPlum]

17. my apologies

I guess "finding" is only technically different than "following".

[blm]

33. huh?

what are you talking about?

[Nicholas_J]

60. By entering politics

he may have saved many of the lives of his patients.

[CWebster]

63. Uncalled for and ugly

slur.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

73. Nah, just more evidence

that Nic's hatred for Dean is not about politics, it's somehow strangely personal.

He has called him "a petty mediocrity" "a monster" "a tyrant" and "in a way worse than Bush". And that was just one post.

He has also suggested that Dean was responsible for the war, a suggestion so outrageous that even his fellow Kerry supporters made fun of it.

And every once in awhile...a non-political comment like this leaks out, revealing a hatred that is obviously so poisonous and personal -- a slur? Maybe. But not surprising.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

131. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[CWebster]

140. Such. As?

?

[MercutioATC]

82. Wow! That's even below your level, Nick...

What a baseless, meanspirited, asinine statement.

Unless, of course, you have proof tha he was a lousy internest...

[Nicholas_J]

151. I have an inlaw

Who was in the same med school with the doctor...was an intern at Einstein, and is now a reearch phyician at the same school's hosptital....

Doenst mean he was a bad intern, just that he had to take an internship at the place that accepted his application. YOu start at the highest place you can apply for, and work your way to the place that accepts you...Thats the way med school, internship and residency works.

Like Florida's doctors, they come to FLorida because they cant cut it in the big league.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

166. Um, this is proof?

that Dean entering politics may be saving lives?

As Mercutio said, this is below you Nick. You've said lots of outrageous things about Dean and his politics, but this is just ugly.
I'm surprised you even tried to defend it.

[arcos]

149. I'm going to quote you:

"What is it about ONE candidate, that encourages his followers to lie, attack andyone who dares even philosophically to question that candidates sincerity or ability."

You are LYING and attacking Dean's ability as a Doctor.

Your vicious attacks are truly sickening sometimes. It is fine to compare records, but resorting to this type of insults is just pathetic.

[MercutioATC]

152. As a matter of fact, that's SO mean-spirited that it gets $1 for Dean

Nick, if we could really attribute these contributions to you legally, you'd be getting close to your $2000 limit.

Thank you for your support!

[killbotfactory]

94. He renewed it and payed a 20 dollar fee.

for being late.

[Nicholas_J]

59. Or eventually

Loser Dean.

[MercutioATC]

153. Meets the "less than 5-word" anti-Dean criterion...$1 for Gov. Dean!

explanation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9385&mesg_id=9385

[blm]

3. Whoa...big backdown for From...he hated Kerry's liberalism

and that Kerry rarely came to agreement with the center.

They must see the writing on the wall. This is a HUGE seachange. From is finally acknowledging the power of the left.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. You got that right

Frankly I am DEE-LIGHTED that THE most influential group of Democrats has seen the light and will coalesce behind out best candidate. This is GREAT news. Of course, this will only serve to feed fuel to the fire that Kerry is a corrupted insider, unlike the the "mean and clean" Dr. Dean. But hopefully, we will ALL eventualy coalesce behind this great man and leader.

[CWebster]

64. Corrupted insider..

No one had to tell you.

[Larkspur]

44. It means that Al From is TERRIFIED of Howard Dean

and seeing Lieberman and Edwards sinking like the Titanic in the polls, he'll dump them in favor of Kerry, who for now is treading water against Dean.

[ProfessorPlum]

46. Yeah, what IS From's deal about Dean anyway?

I would think that on a number of policy issues, they would be close. (And on others, very far apart indeed). But who pissed in who's coffee?

[Upfront]

76. Control

Dean is getting his money from the little guys. If your not on the corp. take like most of them are, you can't be controlled by them. I don't think Kerry will be controlled by them either so I guess I don't get it either. lol

[NewYorkerfromMass]

52. the cream will rise to the top

it's a long campaign. I have no doubt the best man will emerge.

[Larkspur]

93. And Dean is the cream making its way from obscurity to the top

Kerry was the front-runner by default after Al Gore bowed out. As they say, "those on top have no where to go but down" and Kerry's poll numbers are showing that.

Of course the poll numbers will be topsy turvy once Kerry gets off his duff and starts campaigning after Labor Day, but Dean shows the work ethic of a champion and has the strategy to keep his poll numbers rising even after Kerry starts to attack.

[MercutioATC]

4. The DLC's backing Kerry? *gasp* I'm shocked!

Not to say anything negative about Kerry (again, I do like some of his ideas) but I think that DLC backing of Kery has been a foregone conclusion for some time now. It IS nice to see it made public, though.

I really have nothing against the DLC either. They're entitled to an opinion and support whomever thay like. Their "New Democrat" sounds a lot like "Republican" to me at times, though (NOT a Kerry reference - just an observation of DLC philosopy).

(on edit)

I should have said "a foregone conclusion since Lieberman's numbers have tanked".

[DrFunkenstein]

10. New Democrat sounds a lot like Republican to me, too

When I first started researching candidates way back when, I saw that Kerry was a member of the DLC. The DLC represented all that I hated about the Democratic party - they were the Dick Morris wing of the Party. It was mostly their corporate whoring ways that spoiled Clinton and Gore for me (who I liked in general, otherwise) and ruined the 2000 campaign.

However, I did my homework and soon realized that the DLC in no way reflected Kerry's policies or voting record. What it did do is prove to me that Kerry is capable of building bridges across ideological lines. And, honestly, that impressed me.

[ProfessorPlum]

11. As long as he doesn't take any advice from them.

.

[ModerateMiddle]

78. Amen to that.

Kerry is capable of building bridges across ideological lines.

This is a huge issue to me, because I adher to Matt Stoller's concept that what is ailing this country is a partisan hatred that makes us all forget that there is more that unites us than divides us.

[blm]

37. You're wrong...From NEVER liked Kerry

because Kerry stayed on the left too often to suit From, and he stayed away from owing corporations ANY loyalty, preferring to work on legislation that benefitted labor and small businesses.

This is a HUGE compromise for Al From and a HUGE win for the progressive left.

[MercutioATC]

84. I'm NOT wrong...From is an opportunist

who won't scruple to back whomever is popular at the time (as long as they don't ruffle his conservative feathers too much).

I'm taking issue with From and the DLC here, not Kerry. From sees Lieberman's numbers and he's backing a new pony. No big story here.

[blm]

97. Doesn't change the fact that From NEVER liked Kerry

and only sees the writing on the wall that HE and the DLC had to move to the left to get behind Kerry because he will BE the nominee.

[MercutioATC]

100. Um, yeah...that was my point....

I'm not surprised From will switch allegiance to whomever looks most viable at the moment. He's an opportunist.

[Nicholas_J]

62. Lieberman is still at the top.

But you forget, if you take the votes for all of the DLC candidates, the non DLC canidates, and those who are not decided. Whoever the DLC backs will get the delegates for the other DLC candidates. DLC Candidates hold enough votes according to the polls to prevent Dean from getting enough votes to win the nomination. ALl that is necessary is for all of the candidates to STAY in the campaign until the nomination, and thent turn their delegates OVER to the canedidate that the DLC decides to support. Right now DLC candidated hold over 60 percent of the votes in all polls. THe non DLC candidares. Mosely-Braun, Sharpton and Dean hold less than 25 percent in whatever national poll you look at, with EVERY SINGLE undecided voter left in the polls, Dean cannot make it to 27 percent. Without the support of the DLC, the DNC,and the other candidates, the DNC and DLC can decide to block Deans nomination. AND given the fact that they view Denas as aMcGovern/McCarthy type, who is responsible for the DLC being EVERYTHING that those who are complaining about the DLC is being targeted about. You must remember, a scant two years ago, Dean was the DLC poster boy. The DLC Icon. They made Dean who he was. His politics were veryt conservative, but Dean gave way to the Republicans in Vermont like a whore in order to get enough votes to stay in office.Dean is Everything he criticises the DLC for and far far more.Dean is NOT the preson to be criticising the DLC, the fact that the DLC is willing to try to portray an almost RADICAL left wing Democrat like Kerry as a centrist is indicative that they want someone with a rewcord of fighting Repiblicans from the officve he was elected to, not a Republican appeaser like Dean.

All that is necessary is for the DLC and its candidates to oppose Dean and give their delegates to ONE candidate. If the DLC is moving twards Kerry as the most electable, and their is no majority by nomination, they meet and decide to NOT allow Dean to be nominated by supporting ONE of the DLC candidates.

Perfect, and probable ending.

Especially since Deans primary base of support was from the political right, and all of his fights were against democrats and the left, in order for him to pass the platforms of his moderate republican support.

I love a qoute from Vermont progressives about referring to Dean.

"A Vision without Action is a Daydream"

[ryharrin]

165. So in this scenario you are setting up, you suggest that

the party leadership should screw over the candidate that wins the plurality of the votes in favor of someone more "establishment friendly?" Sounds like a great plan to divide the party completely and lose horribly 2004.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. I'm glad for Kerry that he is getting some top-down

help from the party. (As opposed to what seems to be mostly bottom-up support for Dean). But From has been making some really unbelievable statements recently - I would worry that the DLC would harm Kerry more than the other way around.

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Harm The Massachusetts Liberal?

Personally, I think the DLC will let Kerry tap into untold funds and making him seem much more centrist than he really is. And, not as a knock, but I think there is a limit to the internet-driven white male :argh: activist/political junkie class, although their enthusiasm may know no bounds.

But, at the same time, I have said repeatedly that I find the DLC's divisive rhetoric and attempts to shoot Dean down extremely distasteful. Will that rub off on Kerry? I don't know. I certainly hope not. As long as Dean doesn't run away from the middle-class, I'm sure everything will be fine.;-)

[ThorsteinVeblen]

6. Dean should go after Saudi Arabia

Hard and Fast giving no quarter.

The House of Saud needs some house cleaning and it is time for anti-semitic Wahhabism to end.

The DLC/Kerry support for Bush's foreign policy is wrong, immoral and WILL NOT GET KERRY ELECTED IN 2004. In fact, DLC support for Bush is a sure fire way to make the Democratic Party the minority party for the next 30 years. The DLC is insane and should be quashed along with Kerry's canidacy.

[dolstein]

8. Gee, and all this time I though From was Lieberman's butt monkey

So, will all the lefties who previously supported Kerry abandon him now that his candidacy has been coopted by the corporate whores of the DLC? Or will they prove themselves to be flaming hypocrites?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

119. Read this entire thread. It speaks for itself.

[DrFunkenstein]

14. Hey, I've Only Got One Person On Ignore, And He Already Showed Up!

Who could that be? What kind of positive discussion could he be engendering right now? I guess I'll never know.

[ProfessorPlum]

16. Ah, the price we pay for the "Ignore" function

My curiosity gets the best of me too much to use it :)

[DrFunkenstein]

31. If Only I Knew Who Else Commented On #14

Whew. It's like rolling down a window after someone farted.

(Edited note: That's my #14. It might not be yours.)

[ProfessorPlum]

47. Ah

Yes, there are some who are pretty out there. I think you've made the right decision.

[MercutioATC]

85. You have a problem with the Professor?

Granted, he (and I) and you are in different camps, but he's REALLY the one person you've set on "ignore"?

[DrFunkenstein]

87. No, I Wouldn't Be Able To Respond If I Did...

Just think to yourself, who is the most off-the-wall knucklehead in the Dean camp? No, not him. The other one. Yeah, that's the one.

[MercutioATC]

102. I can actually think of a couple, but I think I know of whom you speak

.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

19. Negative Destructive Energy is just as important as Postive Energy

if applied at the correct times and places.

[ModerateMiddle]

79. yeah, me too

an I have ignores in this thread too. Sometimes I get curious, but my doc recommends I keep an handle on my blood pressure :D

[SGrande]

108. LOL, same here!

Who is THAT ignored person!?

:)

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

18. Vouchers??

Kerry and From like vouchers...pretty scary. I knew Kerry was behind NCLB, but didn't think he liked it's obvious ploy to promote vouchers and hence the destruction of public education.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. "...may be worth trying on an experimental basis"

read please.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

28. I did, thanks

And I've never seen any compelling evidence regarding vouchers that makes me inclined to think they even need to be experimented with.

[DrFunkenstein]

34. Here Is Kerry's Voting Record On Education

http://www.issues2000.org/Social/John_Kerry_Education.htm

You can find all his voting records by category here:

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103&PHPSESSID=6ffe9242b4363ab589fb36f5bae97f66

Tell me what you find. Maybe it'll sound like his website:

"John Kerry opposes private school vouchers that will drain scarce funds from public schools. Instead, he supports efforts to increase resources to public schools to ensure all students have quality teachers, high standards, smaller classes, and safe, modern schools."

http://www.johnkerry.com/site/PageServer?pagename=edu_main

Damn, I'm getting good at this!

[DrFunkenstein]

35. I should have included the ten-cent photo-op

<>

[flpoljunkie]

56. Dr. Funkenstein, What a terrific black and white photo!

Thanks for posting it. For those who are unaware, Kerry's sister is a teacher.

Regime Change in '04! Vote John Kerry!

[DrFunkenstein]

81. It Seems He's Been Talking With His Sister

LANSING -- The head of the (Michigan's) largest teachers union has personally endorsed U.S. Sen. John Kerry in the Democratic presidential race.

Battaglieri said he has been offered the chance by Kerry's campaign to look over policy statements, especially those regarding education. He's also talking to NEA-affiliated union presidents in other states to promote the Massachusetts senator, he said.

"When you look at the totality of the package, his ability to raise money, his own personal wealth, his ability to get votes ... I think he will make a formidable opponent to George Bush," Battaglieri said.

It doesn't hurt that Kerry's sister is a teacher in Boston public schools, he added.

"He knows everything there is to know about education," Battaglieri said. "He knows all the acronyms."

(I'm not sure what those acronyms are, but it sounds impressive!)

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

71. Thanks Dr. F!

He is definitely pro education, just misguided on the (lack of) value in NCLB. If I have to vote for him in November, it won't totally break my heart. :)

[CWebster]

22. Alls we need is..

Democrats trying to convince Democrats to subscribe to the Republican lie...

That this pleases you, the backing of the DLC, who enthusiastically rallied around Lieberman with the same Republican mindset mirroring Smirk's grand scam, says something about the credibility, hell the likeability of your choice and reasoning.

Like I said, everyday I like Kerry less. Always thought he was the archtypical ambitious politician, touting honorable causes while knifing others and seeking the aid of slick insiders ;-)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. You're missing the point: The DLC has GONE to Kerry

not the other way around. The DLC, as I understand it, wanted to back Lieberman. They realize now that Kerry is the best shot.
The DLC may be dumb but they're not stupid. :shrug:

[T Roosevelt]

24. It's more like they realize Lieberman has no shot

and they refuse to back Dean. Seems Kerry is their compromise candidate, though I don't know that DLC backing says much, other than "hey, here's our Bush-lite nominee"...

[ProfessorPlum]

27. That was kind of a cheap shot,

don't you think? I think the DLC is not so concerned about centrism as perceived centrism, and also about insider status vs. outsider.

I would think that in matters of policy, Dean and the DLC share more than Kerry and the DLC. Weird that they value insider status more than ideology.

If they happen to back up a progressive candidate just because he is an insider, my feeling is too bad for them (and good for us, collectively).

[DrFunkenstein]

38. Thanks for the voice of decency

Some people don't really want to discuss things. They just want to argue. I'll debate hard with somebody, but not with that win-at-all-costs mentality.

I am truly thankful that there are people here that are willing to see more than one side to a story. Even if we disagree. I really dislike zealots that play to win. That's kind of what I think is wrong with conservatism these days. It's not so much that they want to find the best solution, they just want to win the game. I hate to see the same thing cropping up in liberal circles, as well.

And that goes for Kerry supporters too! (You know who you are (I hope)).

It is people like you, Prof, that make supporting Dean seem not so bad a thing.

[ProfessorPlum]

48. It's NOT such a bad thing - you should try it!

Dean is such an awesome campaigner and candidate. He doesn't have that slight stink of fear that seems to hang over some candidates and his passion make him the kind of representative for the collective, Democratic good that I've been waiting for for a long time.

Just got done with a book on the history of philosophy, and it turns out that I am a "Utilitarian" in most ways, and Dean appeals to me in that vein. Dean is progressive where he can be, and pragmatic where can't, and he can articulate his views extremely well. He represents people in this country who are usually made slight laughingstocks - people who are not at the top of the socio-economic pile - and he doesn't sound APOLOGETIC about it. He sounds enthused and happy and RIGHT about it. He doesn't apologize for disagreeing with this radical, hopped-up, imperialistic junta which has weaseled its way into our executive branch.

Thank you for your decency and humor as well - I think that together we and other discussion-minded (not argumentative - necessarily) individuals could steer this board away from its most self-destructive tendencies.

[DrFunkenstein]

83. I Think Of A Myself As A Bill Moyers Democrat

I try to emulate his sense of decency. Studs Terkel is another figure I think of as what a good liberal should sound like.

Actually, you do Dean great justice in your description. These are all the qualities I like best about Dean. Its just when he slides from righteous indignation to sour puss that I lose confidence. But I like Dean's enthusiasm, and how he takes his outrage for granted, like its common sense (it is).

Honestly, what I long for is Dean and Kerry to stop taking pot shots, and really go at each other on policy. That would be something to see. Hopefully, the dwarves will begin to dwindle away and we can get some serious debates on the boob tube. That would beat Monday Night Football for me.

Although you are probably the most likely to ever convert me, there are many excellent Dean supporters here to counter the fools who make the campaign look like a bunch of ass-heads. I hope I can do the same for Kerry.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

116. You do Kerry great justice, Dr. Funk

There are fools in every group of people, and especially on Internet forums that are somewhat anonymous, you just have to learn to weed them out.

You have my utmost respect for the way you conduct yourself on this forum.

Plus you have all the cool pictures.

[DrFunkenstein]

117. It Was All Over When Somebody Taught Me To Post Pictures

It is addictive. I just worry that I'm filling up this poor server's bandwidth.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

127. It's only a problem if you are on dial-up...

...as I have been these past 3 days on a business trip. Otherwise I love the pictures.

[CWebster]

142. Pin ups?

for heart throbs?

;-)

[CWebster]

26. Shameful rationale

The failing Lieberman campaign is demonstrative of just how much the DLC startegy is a crock of shit. So Kerry will accept the backing of the corporate funded reactionary faction to wage his campaign? No pac money, huh?

This is the first time I have ever expressed this on these threads and heaven knows there has been a plethora of opportunity:

:puke:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. Don't assume they share identical agendas

That is a mistake.

And I was reluctant to use the 'puke' emoti as well, but it's a good release I've found. :)

[OHdem10]

39. do not asssume they share the same agenda

You are absolutely correct. Kerry is his own man. He is concerned about the middle class and the the fact our country is losing its middle class. DLC without Clinton is interested in Corporations and Upper class. That Mark Penn Poll which they pull out yearly
is a joke. They realize they are in trouble because they have
spent all this time doing nothing to invigorate the base--thinking they could just select the candidate they wish and run a few polls.
I am a Kerry supporter. Dean and Kucinish have shown them the wickedness of their ways. Human contact is important --with their meetups and rallies they have developed alsmost movement politics.
The DLC if they are trying to back Kerry is trying to be on a winning team otherwise the DLC is irrelevant and goes out of commission. I would love to see Kerry and Clark on a ticket.
This mess in Afghankistan and Iraq is going to require work no matter who is president. Clark handle Bonia and Kosovo and Serbia
and has credentials a mile long. Kerry could focus on Domestic Policy(War Hero is own right) while Clark cleans up the Mess overseas. I would love to see Kucinich-- after the election--take the followers of Dean and himself and form our equivalent of the Religious Right. A permanent movement with clout to keep our politicians in tow. Dean and Kucinich would be great for this.
OHdem10

[DrFunkenstein]

45. Kerry/Clark Would Be Bad Ass

Vs. Awol Bush and "other priorities" Cheney.

[blm]

50. In that scenario

I'd like to see Kucinich either the head of a Dept. of Peace or Speaker of the House.

[CWebster]

51. It simply amazes me

this outrage, this mounting fury building for the DLC for months, and suddenly everything is sweetness and light and like the excrutiating contorting lengths people were willing to go to deny Clinton had anything other than a masterful plan (notice how the entire issue of the bogus case for war is fading off the radar?), you are eating shit for Kerry. Hedda even pointed out a significant connection with Kerry's advisor, and you all coasted right by it.

I apologise, Prof Plum, you seem a decent sort with a genuine appeal for civility, but how the hell can anyone wonder, if not curse the sheeple for their unknowing blindness, when here is another classic example of the same blindered view through the rose-colored glasses.

[DrFunkenstein]

55. Can You Provide Some Background Information?

Not another thread, please. Some actual links to proof of Kerry's corruption. I have posted tons of voting records and information, all of which you are free to refute. However, if you are going to make blanket charges, at least back them up.

Otherwise, your credibility is shot for me (not that you care, I'm sure) and should be for everyone else.

I am more than willing to listen to any arguments you make, but you have to actually make one.

[CWebster]

66. You never addressed the issue.

What difference does your cheerleading make?

[DrFunkenstein]

86. Credibility Slipping...Slipping...Slipping...

I'm still waiting for you to back up anything you have said. Go back to Skull & Bones theories - its easier.

I feel no need to justify myself to you. My record speaks for itself. You, however, have some words to back up, my good man. Once again, where's the proof that the DLC has corrupted Kerry?

Here is Kerry's record at Vote Smart - voting records, campaign finances, ratings by liberal and conservative interest goups, public statements.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103&PHPSESSID=6ffe9242b4363ab589fb36f5bae97f66

I double dog dare you.

[CWebster]

88. Strawman argument

If you are referring to Hedda's comment:

"'Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. '"

Will Marshall, as many of us are aware, signed the last two PNAC letters and was a member of the PNAC-spinoff warmongering group The Committee to Liberate Iraq."

It's right here on this thread, #25.

I think that Kerry's dismissal of the stolen election, his staunch 100% unrelenting support for his vote, his unwillingness to join Kennedy and Byrd in a second resolution despite the overwhelming objections of his constituients, his complicit silence and cowardice in the wake of profound deception, his hesitation to attend the NAACP meeting, and then attempting to rig the debates, his support of the patriot act, his past pandering to the teachers unions and then challenging them, his willingness to consider vouchers, his crack about welfare on Imus in the morning, the documented smear campaign launched by his campaign to marginalize and attack Dean by co-opting his style while attacking him as an "unelectible fringe liberal", the cocky arrogance of his staff in characterizing Dean as an "unemployed doctor" and claiming they could trounce him any time they wanted with pompous arrogance, the pathetic attempt to curry favor with anti-war voters by circulating a photo of himself with John Lennon, his relentless boasting of his Viet Nam experience to demonstrate his toughness on defense, when supposedly the experience caused him to openly question the case for war, his shameful act of throwing someone else's medals over the wall, allowing the perception that they were his own - until they were discovered hanging on his wall, promoting his Irish identity, to market himself to the Irish-Catholic vote and then promoting himself as a Jew in front of AIPAC and rhapsodising about coming home to his long lost roots, claiming environmental activism, unless it is a question of windmills blighting the view of the leasure classes, of which he can count himself as a member, his aloofness and failure to connect, his continual carping about what conservatives are not rather than laying out what Democrats are, his, until recently, Republican wife, his well known emphasis on superficialities, having surgery on his jaw generally considered to improve his appearance, his small percentage of signature bills, his inability to demonstrate leadership ability, and now, by accepting the overtures of the DLC, a group diametrically opposed to all that Kerry can claim to as an asset, he demonstrates his lack of integrity and opportunism.

It's a fix and guarantees NO CHANGE in the status quo which bodes ill for the future of the Democratic party.


Did I miss anything?

[DrFunkenstein]

113. Emphasis on Superficialities

You didn't answer my question. If I am correct, simply accepting the assistance of a powerful group within the party, a group to which Kerry and Gore anc Clinton are members, is a criminal act. But you still don't explain how it has affected him, how he has succumbed to DLC pressure. For 18 years in the Senate, I'd say Kerry's record is rock solid. Year after year, he is in the top 10% of the most liberal Congressmen in Washington. Year afte year, he somehow avoids following the DLC's centrist lead. Year after year, he holds a clean, PAC-free campaign.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the DLC got behind Dean, you would fawn over how it proves he is a true centrist, and pragmatist, and realist, etc. But you can't admit that Kerry is building bridges with the centrist part of the Party.

I will adress the other charges in a separate post, so you don't confuse the two issues. I have the feeling you'll let this one drop in favor of an "emphasis on superficialities."

[CWebster]

114. Well I don't know

I guess if the John Birchers lobbied me...endorsed me, I could keep my policies seperate from theirs. Why the hell would they select me in that case?

Wrong, I am quite sober in my appraisal of Dean and he makes no secret of where he is coming from. That's refreshing--I like that about him. But I am under no illusions that he is not as progressive as I am--and here is your conodrum --if Kerry advocates more liberal policies why does he attempt to characterize Dean as the marginaised "liberal unelectible" and why do so many Progressives find Dean more palatable? My guess would be that it has something to do with authenticity.

[DrFunkenstein]

120. The Neo-Conservatives Support The Religious Right

Not because they identify with fanatical fundamentalists, but because they want to be on the winning side. If their agenda fails today, it'll make it tomorrow. Grover Norquist is very up front about this. I was at a debate between him and some staff from The Nation about the "liberal media" when he said it. It really struck me how right he was. He made fun of liberals because they don't the meaning of coalition. Every liberal is perfectly correct in their own personal ivory tower, and won't budge to get anything accomplished.

As for the Dean progressives, I have a strong suspicion their support has more to do with demagoguery than authenticity.

Updated for grammar.

[CWebster]

128. Do their bidding too

"'Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. '

Will Marshall, as many of us are aware, signed the last two PNAC letters and was a member of the PNAC-spinoff warmongering group The Committee to Liberate Iraq."


Any coalition that pleases you.

[DrFunkenstein]

115. A List of Crap Against Kerry Refuted Up and Down - Please Read

It seems you cherry-pick liberally from Dean arguments and smears Republicans have been spouting for years.

1) Kerry refers occasionally about 2000, but decided to leave it for the same reason Gore did - it focuses on the past, instead of the future.

2) If he wasn't 100%, you'd say he waffled. But he has held the same beliefs since at least 1997, and voted based on those beliefs.

3) A second resolution would never even make it to the floor. Republican majority, and most Dems never want it to come up again.

4) Um, actually Kerry demanded an investigation on the deception.

5) I'm not sure what you mean by "rig" the debates.

6) The Patriot Act was voted nearly unanimously. He said he would review it and repeal whatever was un-Constitutional. Plus he was in a minority that voted against Ashcroft's nomination.

7) Kerry consistently gets 100% ratings from the NEA.

8) I don't listen to Imus. I prefer Leonard Lopate.

9) What "documentation" are you talking about?

10) Is it cocky arrogance or pompous arrogance? Should I get a list of things Joe Trippi has said about Kerry? You'll find its a much longer list.

11) You'd fall on yourself if Dean had the celebrity connections Kerry does. If I took a picture with Lennon, you bet your ass I'd use it. Your just pissed because you're impressed Kerry hung out with the smart Beatle.

12) If you're a die-hard Massachusetts liberal, you're not going to be President with some Vietnam credentials. It may grate on your sensitive nerves, but it resonates with the general public. Say it with me - "war hero." Now say, "Bush went AWOL, Cheney evaded." Can I get a "chickenhawk?"

Now we really start getting into Republican territory. Which translates as - desperate and pathetic. Most of it is refuted easily by Joe Klein in The New Yorker:

http://www.johnkerry.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6197&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

13) Vets threw all kinds of military apparel into the "trash bin." There was nothing exceptional about Kerry throwing his ribbons, nor did he ever mislead anyone on the matter.

14) Kerry was ALWAYs upfront about not knowing his father's genealogy. He even said he suspected some Jewishness.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh030703.shtml

15) If you want to nitpick Kerry's environmental, at least spell "leisure" correctly.

16) We'll let the general public decide how Kerry connects, not conservative pundits and you. So far, there have been lots of articles with people saying, "I expected him to be aloof, but he seemed like a nice guy."

17) Are you actually going to attack Kerry's philanthropist wife?

18) His surgery was corrective to stop a clicking. By "generally considered," do you mean by conservative pundits?

19) Gore had few signature bills, so did John Kennedy. Kerry does have an impressive stack of small business bills that add up big time not to mention the Kerry-McCain CAFE bill, or the Kerry Amendment to NAFTA to stop secret, extra-Constitutional tribunals.

http://action.citizen.org/pc/officials/congress/?lvl=C&only_votes=1&azip=02101

I don't have to mention BCCI, Iran-Contra, CIA drug smuggling, Oliver North, or the POW-MIA investigations, all of enormous importance then, and setting the model for pursuing stateless terrorists and financing in the 90's and beyond.

20) He led the Veterans Agains The War, didn't he? That impresses me more than Vermont, a rural state with no major metropolitan areas.

21) Actually, Kerry and the DLC believe in Free Trade and globalization as having the potential as a positive force. Kerry just believes in strong labor and environmental safeguards like the 2002 Kerry Amendment.

<>

[CWebster]

126. Oh luck another photo of Kerry hobnobbing with...

why it'a a virtual who's who.

You don't seem to understand, that shit doesn't impress me.

1) Ask anyone at DU about kerry's brush-off, after all, this site was founded on the stolen election outrage.

2)Which beliefs? It was an up or down vote, he committed to both and neither.

3) The effort would have won him respect and made his claim more credible

4)Too little, too late

5)Look it up.

6) Under the cover of everybody did it...except Russ Feingold.

7) not exactly addressing the issue.

8)Whatever

9)I'll have to come back to this I forget what it refers to.

10)Sure.

11)nauseating and i am sure if Lennon was alive he would object to kerry exploiting it, being as he was a pacifist in all things.

12)A truly pricipled position

13)They were not his medals. A well-known fact. Sleaze.

14)he knew but kept it mum until politically expediant to use it to cyurry AIPAC.

15)Apologies

16)That's nice.

17)the botuxed recent Republican?

18)Of course. No, I think I read it on a congressional site bio.

19)Tto mention a few...

20)So?

21) Hmmm.

[DrFunkenstein]

129. Credibility going...going...gone

I'd say 80-90% of your arguments have fallen apart in the light of day. I'll let others decide whose "shit" doesn't impress.

[ModerateMiddle]

80. DLC ... is interested in Corporations and Upper class.

This isn't true. It's the same as the Bush-lite complaint. The DLC is against making enemies of businessmen. It is after all businesses who provide "jobs" that we all want so badly, eh?

I am not happy with some of the stands the DLC takes, but they are not the enemy.

[OHdem10]

40. do not asssume they share the same agenda

You are absolutely correct. Kerry is his own man. He is concerned about the middle class and the the fact our country is losing its middle class. DLC without Clinton is interested in Corporations and Upper class. That Mark Penn Poll which they pull out yearly
is a joke. They realize they are in trouble because they have
spent all this time doing nothing to invigorate the base--thinking they could just select the candidate they wish and run a few polls.
I am a Kerry supporter. Dean and Kucinish have shown them the wickedness of their ways. Human contact is important --with their meetups and rallies they have developed alsmost movement politics.
The DLC if they are trying to back Kerry is trying to be on a winning team otherwise the DLC is irrelevant and goes out of commission. I would love to see Kerry and Clark on a ticket.
This mess in Afghankistan and Iraq is going to require work no matter who is president. Clark handle Bonia and Kosovo and Serbia
and has credentials a mile long. Kerry could focus on Domestic Policy(War Hero is own right) while Clark cleans up the Mess overseas. I would love to see Kucinich-- after the election--take the followers of Dean and himself and form our equivalent of the Religious Right. A permanent movement with clout to keep our politicians in tow. Dean and Kucinich would be great for this.
OHdem10

[OHdem10]

41. do not asssume they share the same agenda

You are absolutely correct. Kerry is his own man. He is concerned about the middle class and the the fact our country is losing its middle class. DLC without Clinton is interested in Corporations and Upper class. That Mark Penn Poll which they pull out yearly
is a joke. They realize they are in trouble because they have
spent all this time doing nothing to invigorate the base--thinking they could just select the candidate they wish and run a few polls.
I am a Kerry supporter. Dean and Kucinish have shown them the wickedness of their ways. Human contact is important --with their meetups and rallies they have developed alsmost movement politics.
The DLC if they are trying to back Kerry is trying to be on a winning team otherwise the DLC is irrelevant and goes out of commission. I would love to see Kerry and Clark on a ticket.
This mess in Afghankistan and Iraq is going to require work no matter who is president. Clark handle Bonia and Kosovo and Serbia
and has credentials a mile long. Kerry could focus on Domestic Policy(War Hero is own right) while Clark cleans up the Mess overseas. I would love to see Kucinich-- after the election--take the followers of Dean and himself and form our equivalent of the Religious Right. A permanent movement with clout to keep our politicians in tow. Dean and Kucinich would be great for this.
OHdem10

[OHdem10]

42. do not asssume they share the same agenda

You are absolutely correct. Kerry is his own man. He is concerned about the middle class and the the fact our country is losing its middle class. DLC without Clinton is interested in Corporations and Upper class. That Mark Penn Poll which they pull out yearly
is a joke. They realize they are in trouble because they have
spent all this time doing nothing to invigorate the base--thinking they could just select the candidate they wish and run a few polls.
I am a Kerry supporter. Dean and Kucinish have shown them the wickedness of their ways. Human contact is important --with their meetups and rallies they have developed alsmost movement politics.
The DLC if they are trying to back Kerry is trying to be on a winning team otherwise the DLC is irrelevant and goes out of commission. I would love to see Kerry and Clark on a ticket.
This mess in Afghankistan and Iraq is going to require work no matter who is president. Clark handle Bonia and Kosovo and Serbia
and has credentials a mile long. Kerry could focus on Domestic Policy(War Hero is own right) while Clark cleans up the Mess overseas. I would love to see Kucinich-- after the election--take the followers of Dean and himself and form our equivalent of the Religious Right. A permanent movement with clout to keep our politicians in tow. Dean and Kucinich would be great for this.
OHdem10

[Nicholas_J]

65. Again

If you look at the polls, DLC candidates hold more than 60 percent of the polled vites. All they need to do is support ALL of the other DLC candidates in the race to make sure a majority of delegates go to DLC candidates. Dean cannot reach a high enough delegate count to get enough delegates to be declared the nominees, so the DNC and its DLC superdelegates sit down and decide who the democratic nominees will be. In the past they were foolish enough to go with someone like MaCarthy and McGovern, and THAT was what weakened the party to where it has to wheel and deal with republican and conservatives, so they are going to go with the candidatee who is in OFFICE, but who has the BEST record of opposing Republicans and geteting away with it.

Kerry is the only candidate who has gotten away with OPPOSING the Death Penalty and been continually re-elected. When It looked like Dean was thinking about the presidency in the late 90's he suddenly "EVOLVED" into pro Death Penalty. Within a few months, with DLC backing, Kerry's polling will rise exponentially.

For all of Deans criticism of the DLC and Washinton insiders. No one is abandoning DLC candidates to flock to Dean. He is getting a few more percentage point, but the DLC will seelct one candidate, and negociate with the others to turn over theri delegates at the LAST minute, and crush Deans campaign.

[CWebster]

69. Ah yes, the DLC backed candidate...

Don't that just make your heart glow with pride and hope?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

57. Admit it

Admit it, you hate Kerry today, you hated him yesterday, and you hated him the day before that. There's no way you could be sincere when you say "everyday I like Kerry less".

[CWebster]

68. Yep

don't like him at all. Phony sellout.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

132. So what else

So what else of what you are saying is insincere?

[polpilot]

121. If From truly wants to harm Dean then he should have said, 'I support

Dean. Dean represents the DLC." That would kill a campaign. An endorsement by these ahhh 'thinkers' is the kiss of death.

Dean '04... Not the DLC's 'Boy'

[DrFunkenstein]

123. You'd Fall All Over Yourself If The DLC Supported Dean

As final "proof" that Dean is, was, and always will be a committed, no-nonsense centrist pragmatist with in-roads to power. He'd be part of the same wave as Clinton and Gore. He'd speak to the people in the middle of the road. He'd...

Am I wrong? Would you suddenly denounce Dean as a sell-out to corporate hookers? I'm thinking not.

[polpilot]

134. No one has ever thought that the DLC would support Dean. No one.

Dean, brilliant strategist that he is, has calculated this many moons ago and wouldn't it be ridiculous for the DLC to feign support of a populist candidate like Dean.

Dean doesn't need EVERY vote or every supporter of every other candidate in this race. I would think it evident that the post concerning the DLC 'discoveries' and 'opinions' were handed to them by their 'owners'.

Dean '04

[hedda_foil]

25. Interesting.

"Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. "

Will Marshall, as many of us are aware, signed the last two PNAC letters and was a member of the PNAC-spinoff warmongering group The Committee to Liberate Iraq.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. Know thy enemy. nt

[blm]

32. And Kerry called for US occupation in Iraq to end.

And for the US to support a UN and NATO effort. And called for an investigation into Bush's misleading the nation over 6 weeks ago.

[DrFunkenstein]

36. I'm Gonna Be Pissed If This Turns Into Another Iraq Squabble

Don't funk with me!

<>

[blm]

43. not to worry...

they can't deny he called for an end to occupation. Nothing left.

[ProfessorPlum]

49. Except that he could have realized

months earlier that we should never have been there and done something more about it - spoken up. The damage has been done now - we are left with cost and no benefit, just as some of us have always feared. Kerry's position now is laudable, but he has done some damage to the Democrats' potential high ground to argue against the occupation by trusting Bush not to screw it up as badly as he has.

Sorry, Doc. Couldn't let that one go by. There IS more that I could have and would have expected from Kerry on this issue.

[DrFunkenstein]

53. Take It Outside, Boys

Plenty of dead horses to beat up on elsewhere in the forum.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

54. Trust and confidence in the President is a matter of decorum

Which Kerry will need himself as President. He did the right thing. Sorry. But he did the right thing. (Bush did not)

[CMT]

58. so the DLC is backing Kerry mainly over the war

even though public distrust and disgust of the war is increasing--they still think that it is best to nominate a democrat who supported the war. Kerry is a very good man and a war hero and that enhances him. I don't buy it though. I think a man can still be strong on national defense and oppose a wrong headed war. Howard Dean is that man imo.

[TheDonkey]

61. I've had enough of the New Democrats and DLC

If Kerry tries to run a centrist campaign, he'll be done.
But if he runs a democratic campaign free from Al From's "help" he is a powerful contender. Hopefully Kerry will keep doing what he's doing and not try to become even more right to please the DLC.

It's time the DLC learns we don't need them tearing this party apart.

[Nicholas_J]

67. It has been a DLC outsider

"supposedly" who has been tearing the party apart.

[CWebster]

70. Ya know, Nick

First you whined Dean was too conservative and now you gloat about how the DLC---the very organization whose incentive is to drive out the base and liberalism, is going to crush him.

Sounds real credible.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

77. Standing 8 count in progress.......

[Nicholas_J]

130. Dean is overwhelmingly conservative

What I resent is his attempts to represent himself as liberal, whetther by act of ommission or by comission. When Dena is represented as a LIBERAL, Dean doesnot boldly and prooudly stand up and state. NOPE, you are lying about me, I am a conservative and proud of it. THat is a lie of omission.

Since Dean has misrepresented himself, has lied about the DLC, has been caught lying about other candidates so many other times, it is simply fair turnaround to use Deans own techiniques against him. If Dena wants to represent himself as the person who will do what the DLC has not, oppose the wicked conservative Rovian Neo-Cons who Dean says have been bowing and scraping before the republicans, let Deans own words and campaign and silence about his real record, be used to destroy him...

Let extremely liberal Kerry be presented as the moderate alternative to that insane radical Howard Dean....AFter all, Dean has led such a campaign of omission, that no one can tell what he is, in order to avoid the leftis progressive title he has alloewd many to tag him with, he will have to reverse many promises he as made, before the primaries.

The early indy media info about his judges, his current statements about not providing immediate health insurance, has lost him the votes of at least half of the 50 million people no without health insurance. The fall will be the end of Dean, as he is going to have to try to move into the center, and will have to betray many supporters somewhere in order to do so.
ANd the DLC, and none of its candidates will try to make up excuses for Dean. And even McGovern and McCarthy had to come crawling back to the DLC for endorsement to get the nomination. They have indicated that no matter what, Dean weill not get any major DLC endorsement. ADN no one gets the nomination without it. Ever.




Turn around is fair play...

Notoce, Dean in the spring becaomein more hawkish, after representing himself as the ONLY CANDDIDATE AGAINST THE WAR (another lie).

And now his turnaround on immediate Universal Healthcare for all Americans into, and incremental approach....

WE all remember Dean speech about doing it quickly in his first administration, got under 88 billion dollars.

ANd now after McCains comments about Dean, suddenly Vermont Republicans are FIRMLY asking that Dean open his records as governor.

Republicans now control Vermont, due to Deans failure to campaign for Democrats in 2002. That request was a polite threat. Howard, open them, or we are going to pass a retroactive law opening them for you, and by the time you sue for an injunction to stop it, both the democrats and the Republicans will have copied every last page a dozen times. McCain has a long reach and is much liked in New England. Such an act would both help bush, and give a leg up to his friend, Kerry.

[ProfessorPlum]

133. Not "Dena" again - why won't Dean set the record straight about her?

:)

[MercutioATC]

155. Another "scroll" post...$1 for the Gov....

explanation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9385&mesg_id=9385

[polpilot]

135. Exactly. Kerry's support would skyrocket if he said, 'I don't want the

DLC supporting me. Go away.' DLC=KOD (Kiss of Death)

Dean '04...Please note: I'm am not the DLC candidate!!! Repeat: I am NOT the DLC candidate.

[DrFunkenstein]

139. It Would Just Soar Through The Roof

Because he's a uniter, not a divider.

You remind me of the guy in That Thing You Do that writes the songs. He breaks up the band to write the hit song "Alone in My Principles."

You don't get to be President by rejecting large parts of the Party organization. That would be like Gore shutting out the progressive wing of the Party.

It would be nice if there were enough internet activists to get a majority, but that would be a pretty dorky majority.

[CookieD]

72. Kerry Trails Badly in Online Poll

Here's an online poll in which Kerry is trailing badly. I already voted and discovered that Lieberman was winning. Here is the link:

http://www.democrats.us/beta/forum/view_forum.php?id=10

The website hosting this poll is at www.democrats.us

[SGrande]

109. c'mon, online polls are crap

they arn't representive of General election nor Primary Voters

[poskonig]

74. I'd rather see them support Lurch than Sleeperman.

Kerry is a solid Democrat I would support, though my guy Dean has all of the campaigning talent.

[indigo32]

143. Yup

EOM...
Lurch... that's awful.

[whirlygigspin]

75. beltway boys hanging on to the trough

The fear of losing their place at the "trough"
seems to be motivating this...

Oh me oh my, oink oink

[Le Taz Hot]

89. I have a question for Kerry supporters

and no, this isn't a bash Kerry question as I don't get into the candidate bash threads -- ever. From my understanding, the DLC is rife with corporate contributions and actually promote these contributions. Terry McAuliff (sp?) was actually brought into the DLC for this specific purpose as the reasoning was that the Republicans were out fundraising the Dems by something like 3-1. If the DLC starts funneling monies to the Kerry campaign, is Kerry not then beholden to the DLC and, by de facto, beholden to the corps and their special interests? This is NOT an accusation -- it's merely a question.

[CWebster]

90. LeTaz

The silence will be deafening while this thread sinks like a stone...Out of sight, out of mind. ;-)

[Le Taz Hot]

91. Ah yes,

Me and my sinking threads/posts. It's a gift. B-)

[CWebster]

92. Think I'll kick it

repeatedly. ;-)

[blm]

99. Fat chance...

some people have two year olds that come first.

[DrFunkenstein]

122. LOL - You posted at 8:07 A.M., Then Bitched At 8:10

Just a small break please.

[CWebster]

145. You know, you are arrogant for a relative

newcomer. Who are you with you snide remarks and petty pronouncements?

I'm not interested in your pompous proclamations, your know-it-all overbearing lecturing and your juvenile display of pop-star pin-ups of the Senator posing with the rich and famous.

I would say that you do not represent your candidate in an especially flattering or attractive light.

[DrFunkenstein]

159. You Would Say That, Wouldn't You

I AM DR. FUNKENSTEIN!!!

<>

I AM THE MOTHERSHIP CONNECTION!!! I HAVE COME TO FUNK YOU UP!!!

[killbotfactory]

95. I think you're confusing the DNC with DLC

Terry McAuliff is part of the DNC.

[CWebster]

96. Yes, but,

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0707-08.htm

"...Head New Democrat..."

[blm]

98. No...Kerry's record is pretty anticorporate

siding with labor 91% of the time on their issues. He has the highest lifetime record on the environment, drafted legislation favoring small business OVER large corporations, and helped draft the Kyoto Accord, which the corporations fought. Everyone knows that implementing Kyoto will be one of his early moves.

From and the DLC had to move left to support Kerry. Be grateful for the significant victory in that move.

[CWebster]

101. It's the company you keep

that seperates the rhetoric from the reality.

Yes so I hear, the DLC had to abandon their evil ways when Kerry demonstarted the error of their ways...not quite..

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/Stories/0,1413,101~7514~1545905,00.html

"I think Kerry could be a very effective nominee. I think Kerry could run as a New Democrat," Mr. From said. "

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030728-095859-2183r.htm

[blm]

103. Showing that Kerry NEVER ran as one before

even while he was a member of the DLC but, stayed on the left while their poster boy Dean governed as a New Dem centrist for 11 YEARS!

Kerry has over a decade of experience maintaining his distance from the New Dem influence. Dean has only had the last 6 MONTHS of being on the outs with the DLC.

[CWebster]

105. LOL!

Well that clinches it! The extremes of denial you employ are sad. The difference being I know and admit to who and what Dean is, no secret there. Now who is Kerry again and where does he align himself in the grand scheme of things?

Ah yes, show me the photo of him and Lennon again, that is sure to convince an old "liberal activist" such as myself.

[blm]

111. I know how to read...

and comprehend. It's a useful skill you might find beneficial if you tried it.

I can also count. Do you know there's a difference between a 30 year liberal track record and 6 MONTHS of left rhetoric?

[CWebster]

112. Well all I can tell you

is what is in front of my face here and now.

[polpilot]

138. Please...please..post the Lennon pic...it makes me swoon!! and feel soo

warm inside!!


Dean '04...

[DrFunkenstein]

146. Then You Won't Be Able To Resist This!!!

<>

[DrFunkenstein]

124. Hey, I Think Kerry Was Skull & Bones!

I heard Kerry once belonged to a group that had rapists and murderers as members! It was the U.S. Navy.

[RogueTrooper]

104. So, Kerry is taking the Saruman Democrat's Schilling

He must be getting desperate.

[blm]

106. HAHAHAHAHA.....

Kerry brings the whole DLC over to the left and some of you want to complain about it. HAHAHAHAHA.

Yet you trust implicitly someone who was the New Dem centrist poster boy for 11 YEARS.

You may be satisfied with a 6 month old conversion to the left. I'll stick with someone who spent their ENTIRE career on the left.

[CWebster]

110. Good one

"Kerry brings the whole DLC over to the left"

:wow:

[CWebster]

107. Yeah, he is releasing the hounds,

too.


Batter up!

;-)

[polpilot]

118. Hokey Post. DLC 'shifts'?? Dean & Crew are fearless and only the

'easily led' will vote Kerry or be impressed by hocus pocus.

The Doctor rules...

[DrFunkenstein]

125. Succint

and meaningless. You're still batting a thousand!

[polpilot]

136. I'm sorry. I just thought that every living soul was aware of the DLC's

support of Kerry. I guess I just never realized this would be so surprising to so many.



Dean '04...NOT the DLC candidate

[burr]

137. In 1992 DLC invited all the primary candidates to speak to them.

Bill Clinton, then the DLC chair, ran for President. So it was only fair to invite the other Democrats to speak to them. However Tsongas, Harkin, and Brown all choose not to appear. I think Bob Kerrey did address the DLC that year.

However, Clinton was clearly the favorite of the organization. This year, the organization has choosen to have none of the Democratic candidates speak before their organization. They will more or less pick a favorite among the candidates, but none of these candidates will have the opportunity to even address the DLC. Why? Because the DLC believes it is best not do get involved in "partisan" battles between the Democratic candidates and the President. It seems that they have already placed their bets on shrub for 2004, and have decided to give their entire focus to state and local candidates in the next election.

<http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=194&contentid=3166>

[DrFunkenstein]

141. Could It Be Because 3 DLC Members Are In The Race?

The point of this article, although it is apparently lost on Polpilot, is that the DLC had been favoring Lieberman (a former chairman with strong ties), but they now realize that Lieberman and Edwards are going to drop away by next spring.

Although Lieberman, like both Clintons, genuinely supported the "third way" philosophy, the DLC knows it is better to be on the winning side than to remain alone in their principles.

[burr]

144. In IMHO there are three arguments in this debate.

The arguments for Kerry being the DLC candidate. The arguments for some other candidate like Edwards or Lieberman being the DLC candidate. And the argument that the DLC has completely thrown in the towel on this Presidential Election.

I believe anyone who saw the last DLC convention would agree with the third argument. The problem is that by ditching the Presidential race, it is a fact that the DLC has thrown in the towel on the party's ability to win back power in the next four years. This is a decision that hurts us all, are they really the electable wing of the party?

[DrFunkenstein]

147. From Is Enamored Of Kerry

"I think Kerry could be a very effective nominee. I think Kerry could run as a New Democrat ," Mr. From told me in an interview.

The DLC does not endorse candidates, but Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. And Al From's embrace of Mr. Kerry is the closest he has come to publicly backing a candidate. Notably, he mentioned no one else in the Democratic pack.

---

I think that the DLC would be much happier with a true believer like Uncle Joe or Hillary, but they are not fools. I don't think anyone is throwing in a towel. On the other hand, there is no way they'll be running the show like they did in 2000.

[burr]

150. Many people say there wasn't even a contest in 2000.

I am one of the few who actually voted for Bradley. But Gore didn't lose a single primary, so it is clear why he would be the DLC's favorite candidate.

Although the DLC never endorses candidates, they always have a favorite that is revealed by their memos and press releases. However, as I indicated, the DLC leadership stated they did not wish to invite the candidates to speak at their convention because they wanted to focus on "the best elements of the party."

In other words, they do not feel that our primary candidates meet this vague standard.

[DrFunkenstein]

157. I'd Say That's A Pretty Big Logical Leap

The only possible reason you can come up with is that they are just uninterested in who gets the nomination...Because they aren't good enough.

We are talking about the DLC. Major movers and shakers. They don't just opt out of a Presidential election - especially when three of their members are running!

So, what'd you think of Kerry's record? Pretty good, aye? (That's my impression of a Canadian.)

[burr]

160. It's pretty good, eh?

The logic is not mine...but based on statements made by Al From, Evan Bayh and others at the DLC convention. They made the decision not to invite the candidates. And I think it was Bayh who made the statement that this was done so "we could showcase the best elements of our party."

He did not want the Presidential Candidates to spoil a beauty contest of state Democrats who were attending the convention. Do I approve of this decision? No I do not. But this is what I saw when watching the DLC convention. And how boring it was!

[DrFunkenstein]

161. You Say Tomatoe, I Say Tomatoe

Doesn't really work when it's typed, does it?

The state Democrats argument is a little more compelling, but I'm still hesitant to agree - if only from the original post. But I will certainly suspend judgement on your theory until things play out a little. It may very well be the case.

[DrFunkenstein]

148. After 150 Posts, No Comments On Kerry's Record or Positions?

The DLC article was just the first half. It was a pain in the ass putting together the second half, but Dean supporters seem so zealous that they refuse to acknowledge a sterling record.

When Dean does something well, I acknowledge it. I even congratulated Dean supporters when Meetup topped 60,000. With very rare exceptions, it seems that Dean supporters think that acknowledging someone else's acheivements is acknowledging failure. I am truly sorry you see it that way.

[revcarol]

154. We've made so MUCH progress.Instead of smoke-filled rooms,

now we have the DLC choosing our candidate for us.We've made so MUCH progress. <Heavy sarcasm>

[DrFunkenstein]

156. Um, What The Hell Are You Talking About?

How is the DLC choosing our candidate for us? I know its alot of posts to read, but don't come in without reading ANY of them. At least not if you have nothing to offer but trashing one of the candidates.

Unless - perhaps, just perhaps - you have some new information about a secret DLC coup to rig the primaries. I, for one, would like to know about it. So I can vote for Nader and all...

[MercutioATC]

158. What is your take on Nick's posts stating that NO candidate can

win without DLC backing?

(on edit)

here:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=7739&mesg_id=7739#10956

[DrFunkenstein]

162. Nick And I Come From Very Different Places

I think that the DLC basically have peaked already. They are still quite powerful, but I think their effect on the party was visible in Gore's blowout victory in 2000. I may be wrong, though. If Bush goes for 4 more years, besides me moving to Brazil, Hillary will be the DLC hooker and they may rise up again.

But it is important to remember that they have lots of connections and phone lists and that kind of crap. That's not to be overlooked when you are running for office.

[MercutioATC]

163. I absolutely agree that they're still powerful, but I l think that

they're smart enough to do what's necesary to survive. Just for the sake of arguement, assume that Dean is wildly successful and gains 1st place wins in 3 of the 4 first primaries. I think the DLC will tone down its rhetoric. If he comes out ahead after Super Tuesday, I really think the DLC will find a way to rationalize supporting him. (By the way, I'd say the same thing of ALL candidates)

The DLC only has power if it's right. The DLC is pretty interested in political power, I'll wager. For that reason, I think that the DLC will posture now, attempting to get the candidate it most likes as the nominee. If the tide turns against them, though, I think they'll back whomever has the support. Lieberman was the DLC's choice until his numbers continued to tank (or, at least, didn't rise). Now the DLC is backing a new horse (Kerry) that has better poll numbers. I think they'll abandom him too if his numbers slip.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

164. This is my take on it as well

They will support the front-runner. The debate is about how much influence they have to create that front-runner. Kerry has been a top candidate for some time now, despite the DLC pushing Lieberman on us, so they can't take credit for his success so far.

Dean's approach is risky, but after the 2002 debacle, it's worth a shot. I think in some way he's pulling a George Constanza, doing the opposite of what might otherwise come natural to a Democratic presidential candidate, because the old ways aren't working.