Why take a bashers word for anything? (dean on pot)

[Egnever]

heres the doctor himself adressing the issue to an 18 year old poster on his web page. Lets put this one to bed shall we?

"Jeremy(from previous thread). I'm impressed that an 18 year old would spend time on a political blog site. Here is a short summary of my drug policy. 1) drug abuse ought to be treated as a public health problem not a judicial problem. I do not favor legalization because we already have enough problems with the two drugs that are legal, alcohol and tobacco. I also believe that if people are dealing heroin to kids or shooting people that jail is more than appropriate. But if your "crime", is being a substance abuser you belong in rehab, not jail. 2)I will order the FDA to study marijuana to see what medicinal effects it may have. I do not think marijuana should have a process different than every other drug to evaluate whether or not it has medical value. Based on the studies I have read, my guess is that the FDA may find that is useful in patients with HIV/Aids, and various forms of cancer, but not for such things as treating glaucoma, where there are other drugs available, and where the risks outway the benefits. I';m on the way back from New York, so i got to read alot of the blogging that went on today. You folks are terrific!! Thank you for an incredible day, and an incredible quarter. Howard Dean

Posted by howard dean at July 1, 2003 12:42 AM

[dsc]

1. two things

One This is great please post this in General Discussion where more people will see it.

Two Please remove Nic's name from the title when you do. Calling people out in threads is a big no no. Your thread will be removed.

[Egnever]

2. Eeep will do

thnx :)

[Woodstock]

3. Interesting

And as usual, I see Dean has a reasoned position.

My own thoughts, maybe not as well reasoned, are that legalizing drugs would lead to less crime. He doesn't really address that, but it's an extremely complicated issue.

Interestingly, I saw a rebroadcast of Ken Burns' Jazz the other night. One of the jazz musicians was recalling that prior to the 40's, there was no heroin addiction in the inner cities. This was deliberately introduced there, and the effects were devastating. I was reminded of the devastating effects alcohol had on the American Indians when it was proferred to them by white settlers.

[Nicholas_J]

4. Why take

Deans word. He has been known to change it.

Taking Deans word on a position is NOT much different than taking Bush's word on WMD's. Like taking ARI FLEISCHERS word for it.
Using a statement Dean makes on one occiasion is in NO WAY indicative of his shifts of position.

This is why I beleive that Dean supporters are TOO easily duped. The only evidence they can provide comes out of Deans own mouth. OR anecdotal evidence. Which is what republicans do. YOu know the kind of evidence I am talking about. They state people should not be required to wear seat belts, becasue they knew somone who was killed by wearing one. That is the kind of evidence Dean supporters CONTINUALLY provide in order to refute articles posted by those on the left, those on the right, those in the middle, But they can never come up with sources UNRELATED to Deans own campaign.

The point is to look at large state and National Organizations that have been fighting for legalization and medical marijuana for DECADES.

They listen to what Dean says, and then listen to him change what he told them when he met with them a month earlier.

STOP refering to DEANS own sites and find organizations dedicated to legalizing medical marijuana who DO NOT beleive that Dean is backing away, and then you MAY have some sort of valid argument

What Dean says to ONE person in an email is NOT indicative of his changing of stance, or even that he is qualified to make a decision on whether it should be legal or not, or even that he should resist the will of the people of Vermont a large majority of whom WANTED medical marijuana legalized, the state legislature, both houses of which OVERWHELMINGLY passed legislation that would have made medical marijuana, LEGAL in Vermont, except for DEAN killing the bills.

Dean also supports CONTINUING, and increasing funding to the useless war on drugs.


Dean supporters are ALWAYS, FOREVER demanding citations and links to things that refer adversely to Dean, but NEVER provide info from non Dean sources that back refute the info.

Dean said what he said, it WAS a flip flop from prior stances, Dean has NOT said anything that would actually result in the legalization of Medical Marijuana, as hs statements about having the EDA do X Y or Z will have NO effect on this, according to those who have the greatest expertise in the area. Thise who have been fighting to pass, and have gotten passed, legislation in a number of states which actually DID make medical marijuana LEGAL.

Dean has had the opportunity, He was the ONLY governor to KILL legislation that was WIDELY supported to make it legal. None of the other governors did. He has given NO medical, scientific, or any other kind of information, other than his own personal opinion that were valid reasons for killing the legislation...





Rogers said that Vermont legislators are in touch with the will of the people. "MPP has commissioned polls of voters in 13 states so far this year, and every one confirms that Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Progressives, Libertarians, and members of other political parties strongly support medical marijuana legislation," said Rogers. "The fact that Vermont's Republican-controlled House of Representatives has passed this legislation sends a clear message to other states: Medical marijuana has strong support across the political spectrum."

A statewide poll commissioned by MPP and conducted by the Lucas Organization on February 9-10 showed that 75.7 percent of Vermonters "support changing the law to allow people with cancer, AIDS, and other serious illnesses to use and grow their own marijuana for medical purposes, if they have the approval of their physicians." Almost two-thirds, 64.9 percent, said Gov. Howard Dean should sign medical marijuana legislation if it reaches his desk.

The Marijuana Policy Project works to minimize the harm associated with marijuana -- both the consumption of marijuana and the laws that are intended to prohibit such use. MPP believes that the greatest harm associated with marijuana is imprisonment. To this end, MPP focuses on removing criminal penalties for marijuana use, with a particular emphasis on making marijuana medically available to seriously ill people who have the approval of their doctors.

http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr031502vt.html

Talk is cheap...
Action speaks louder than words.

And Dean talks a lot...
But NEVER DOES ANYTHING.


I keep forgetting ...ANYTHING that does not state that Dean sh*ts roses is considered Bashing...

I provide dozens of sourced articles, that ACCURATELY report Deans OWN statements. You providse your own opinion.

I watch Dean supporters in thread after thread make comments about other candidates, mere opinion, without ANYTHING to back up thie point of view, and they consider this truthful political discourse. When someone else provides information from MANY stakeholders in Deans position, who hjave been following it CLOSELY, who claim that Dean has changed position in away that ADVERSELY effects the things that they are stakeholders in, and that is considered bashing.

Dean was wrong for Vermont, and is wrong for the nation. If you cannot account for the ever changing positions that Dean takes, fine.

But do not accuse others who provide proof out of Deans own mouth of bashing, when you are merely supporting Deans waffling.

If you want to take Deans word on faith, fine. But dont try to present it as fact.

The only facts are what he HAS done in the past. That is real...

Not what he is saying he will do if elected...

That is not real...

The only way one can possibley tell what someone might do in the future is to look at what they HAVE done in the past.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

5. Oh God.

Egnever, please don't engage him! He hates Dean, has called him "a small arrogant little tyrant" "a petty mediocrity" "dictatorial" "a bastard", and "in a way far worse than Bush".

And that's just in one post.

But I do appreciate the effort to set the record straight. I think it's good to see both sides presented but we have to realize that we are dealing with some serious intense bias here. Even when it's couched in "Listen to what others have to say", it's coming from others who obviously dislike Dean (which is allowed :)) or is craftily excerpted.

I would say don't bother, though I sometimes have lapses myself...