Kucinich ponders wasting precious funds to run ads in NH "correcting" Dean

[pruner]

Upset by Dean ad, Kucinich may make ad of his own

By JAMES W. PINDELL
PoliticsNH.com

EXETER, Oct. 24 – Dennis Kucinich he planned to ask Howard Dean at the New Hampshire AFL-CIO meeting in Whitefield Saturday to edit or remove a new Dean campaign television ad that alleges all of Dean’s rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination are voted for the war.

While campaigning in the Granite State Thursday, Kucinich, the Ohio congressman who is the only candidate to vote against the war, said the ad was false and should be taken down.

In the morning, Kucinich’s campaign lawyer sent a letter to two television stations that broadcast in New Hampshire asking that they remove the ads since they were false. Jeff Bartlett, station director at WMUR in Manchester told New Hampshire Public Radio that it wasn’t his role to edit commercials by candidates for federal office.

After than Kucinich said in an interview that he regretted that television stations were even put in the position they are because of Dean’s ad. In response Kucinich said that unless Dean takes down his ad sometime in the near future he may put up a television ad of his own that would show Dean’s ad and try to correct the record.

http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/september/10_24KucAd.shtml

[jeter]

1. Kucinich has a Napoleonic complex

That ad had nothing to do with him. He knows it. He's trying to get free press on Dean's coattails.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. If so, it's a smart political move.

Also, he's not the only one trying to coattail ride.

[w4rma]

5. I agree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=417033

[Desertrose]

8. oh puhleese you guys

let it go...jeepers.

If this was spun by another candidate in a way to lessen Deans' contribution ...you can't tell me you guys wouldn't be having fits....

Thats the problem with the ad.....it left out the fact that there is another Dem presidential candidate who opposed the war...even before HD himself did.

Why's Dean feel he has to spin this fact?? Where's this wonderful new type of candidate/campaign?? ...sorry, but I see the same old political bs with Dean.....riding Dean's coattails?? sigh.

Peace
DR

[JewelDigger]

3. Don't waste the money

Jeff Bartlett, station director at WMUR in Manchester told New Hampshire Public Radio that it wasn’t his role to edit commercials by candidates for federal office.

It IS his role to make sure that the content that goes out on his station is accurate, otherwise it must be labeled as 'a work of fiction and for entertainment purposes only'. Oh wait, that was 'in the beginning of TV'....some court some where ruled that TV stations don't have to tell the truth anymore....yeah, I remember now. Guess that's why I (and millions more) DON'T WATCH IT!!!!!! And drudge can't understand why ratings go down...must be the availability of all those 'other news sources'. :mad:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. This is where you point out the "fiction."

Go.

[LuminousX]

4. This is the correct move

Fight fire with fire. Trying to 'game the system' in order to stop Dean makes Kucinich look weak. Spending some money on some ads not only boost his image and name (reporters will cover it as yet another spat with Dean, so Kucinich will get some much needed press) but shows he knows how presidential politics work. He has a good point, he opposed the war in Congress from the very beginning. Dean has said none of his opposition did. Of course, Dean may not see Kucinich as opposition. It is up to Kucinich to correct that oversight.

Yee-haw, let the fireworks begin.

[Egnever]

21. Agreed

Dean opened himself up to an attack from kucinich. Denis has the oportunu=ity to use this for some free press. He apears to be using the oportuninity so far, I dont think the way he is going about it right noew helps him but if he springboards off of it with a tv add it could end up being good for him.

No matter what though it will help Dean. Todays topic in politics once again was dean dean dean, Even as they say Denis is ayyacking him they go on to talk about Dean for another ten minutes.

Dean got his moneys worth from this add once again.

It will be interestiung to see the spat that is sure to come on sunday and see how it pans out.

[wtmusic]

7. As a Dean supporter I must admit

my candidate says things he shouldnta oughtnta say.

[LuminousX]

15. I think he knows what he is doing

I sense a pattern. Dean makes statements that aren't lies, they fall in a gray area. When he called Graham a second tier candidate in the beginning (hmm, is Dean prescient, Graham was the first to drop) I felt Dean was too uncouth to make it to the end. But it got Dean free press and did little harm to his campaign (because everyone was thinking it.)

Then came the 'talking about race' issue. Again, I felt Dean had backed himself into a corner. He took a small beating in the debates, got a ton of press out of it, and still surged in the polls. In voters minds it was cemented that Dean talks about race issues openly. Sure, sure, others may do it too, but damn, the press was talking about Dean doing it.

[wtmusic]

16. Nah I think he just has a big mouth

and it is the thing I love and hate about the man. He is not PC, and in truth sometimes he should be.

[Mairead]

27. "the press was talking about Dean doing it"

I haven't seen the press take Dean to task for anything at all, have you? Their lauditory treatment of him looks to me rather like their treatment of Smirk in 2000.

[Desertrose]

28. BINGO!

exactly right Mairead!

Dean is the chosen....where is the big difference between HD and W?

...and then there is Dennis- the only way they can spin him is to out & out lie or continue to ignore...whereas Dean has left enough wiggle room to spin any way they want....

seems clear to me...

Peace
DR

[genius]

9. All of America should be upset that Dean is insulting them with lies

Why can't the man stop lying?

[ClintonTyree]

11. Please..............

painting Dean with the same stroke as Bush? Get a grip on reality. Kucinich is going nowhere. He can try to make this an issue if he wants, but nothing in his arsenal is going to stop Dean's momentum. Dennis was done before he started.

[Jim Sagle]

12. Snerk.

[caledesi]

10. Dennis, you are a nice guy, but you don't have a chance. Pack it in.

[w13rd0]

13. Kucinich did the same thing during the last debate...

...Dennis jumped his case, saying, "Do you want to correct that statement? I voted against the war!"

And Dean rightly corrected him, "I did not mention you."

I understand Dennis being upset that Dean doesn't mention him, but why should he? Does Dennis mention Dean (when he's not snipping)?

[pruner]

14. exactly

Dean has no reason to view Kucinich as an opponent…they're not playing on the same field.

Kucinich is a few tiers down.

[w13rd0]

17. No, that's not it at all...

...there's no reason to disrespect his candidacy like that. It's not even that. Dean refers to "his opposition" in the primary. Is Kucinich in favor of the Iraq war? Is he in favor of the Bush tax cuts? Is Sharpton in favor of the Iraq war? Is Braun? No, of course not. Then why should they be offended when they aren't included in the group that is in favor of the war, and is in favor of Bush tax cuts? Dean doesn't advertise them, because he doesn't need to. Look at his response in the debate which I referred to above.

What bothered Dennis? It was that Dean agreed with him without endorsing him or advertising him or even mentioning him, on those points with which he agreed. Smart move (smart politics) on Dean's part. Much ado about nothing...

I welcome Dennis's ads on TV. But if he's gonna spend the money to run ads, he should use the opportunity judiciously. He won't differentiate himself by attacking Dean, no one has to date, and I don't think he will either.

[pruner]

18. oops

I didn't mean to post my comment as a reply to yours.

[loyalsister]

20. Much ado about nothing

I don't get it either. He just sounds shrill at this point.
I find it pretty confusing, really. Dean's voice has been great against this war. He has mobilized voters like crazy, and he opened the dialogue on universal health care last winter when he first started running.
If Dennis is as committed to the things he claims to be, I would think that he would like to see Dean succeed over the other candidates for two reasons.
1.To reinforce the message that we should not have gotten into this war.
2. On universal heal care- Dean has done it, and has spent almost a full year talking about doing it as president.
The other guys had to flip and say oops on the war and have followed Dean on health care. Why would DK try to contribute to "stop Dean" by whining about nothing when the best end result he could possibly hope for is a benefit to more hawkish candidates with lame health care plans that won't get people covered?

[The Sushi Bandit]

38. What a bunch of Bullshit your spouting!

Dennis was first on Universal health care! Dean is an ex-doctor and will never support true universal care.

Dennis was first in opposition to the war... and the Patroit Act too.

Dean has a great campaign but Dennis is gaining... slowly like the Turtle and the Hare... in the end he will win!

NEVER COUNT HIM OUT!!

[ErasureAcer]

19. As I said in a different thread...

Dean has shot himself in the foot if wins the dem nomination.

I won't be voting for the piece of shit. This is just the latest effort of Dean distorting the truth.

If that's all his campaign has...he might as well quit right now.

[w13rd0]

22. I don't know why I'm bothering...

...how long has it been since this "story" broke? Even with Dean's reputation for rapid response, that's a little quick to be raising hell because you aren't getting a mea culpa, isn't it?

Furthermore, I'm reviewing the ads in question. What the hell? Dennis is hacked off because Dean didn't parenthetically exclude him by saying "some of my opponents for the nomination say (except Dennis Kucinich, and I should mention that so he doesn't try jumping all down my throat at the next debate)"... So just which pieces of shit are you willing to vote for? I mean hell, let's be forthright about it. Who running for the nomination HASN'T distorted something or changed their mind about an issue important to the "democratic base"? What, can't think of anyone? Wait, I can. I can think of ONE candidate that hasn't, and most people don't think she stands much of a chance.

I'll grant this, even as a Dean supporter. Dennis Kucinich is the only ANTI-WAR candidate running for the Democratic nomination. No doubt about it. And that's fine...there, I said it. You gonna be ok now? Or are you gonna go vote for Bush?

[diamondsoul]

29. Dean didn't correct anything.

Words have meaning, and Dean's exact words were "nobody stood up to George Bush". He lied. Dennis Kucinich stood up to George Bush, and THAT'S what Dean should have corrected.

If I use an all inclusive word such as "nobody" I expect to get called on it, and a Presidential candidate isn't immune to making stupid statements. This was one of them, and here he goes continuing with it even though he KNOWS it patently false. That's lying, and I'm sick of lying politicians.

[dsc]

30. This time Dennis has a point

in the debate he didn't. Dean listed candidates in the debate thus his not mentioning Dennis meant that Dennis did oppose the war but in the ad Dean didn't list candidates so the inplication was that Dennis didn't oppose the war. He should have used the word most or major.

[diamondsoul]

31. You can list names all you like, but when you follow it with

"nobody stood up to George Bush" you've nullified your list of exclusions. Sorry, but Dean is using subtle language tricks to dimiss Dennis as irrelevant, and it's offensive.

Whether you back Kucinich or not, he is a far cry from irrelevant, and I'm quite happy he will stand up and demand accountability for deception, misleading and outright lying by other candidates. Haven't we had enough of that over the past 3+ years?

[dsc]

32. At the debate he didn't do that

He said (list of names) all supported the war and I didn't. That means exactly what it says. I will admit the ad is different but Dean is under no obligation at all to use his debate time to enunciate Dennis' positions.

[diamondsoul]

34. Actually, he did. I have the transcript.

DEAN: First of all, let me tell you what I agree with you about. And in all due respect to John and Joe and Wes and John Edwards and Dick Gephardt,*here's your list of names* maybe you thought the war was a good idea and maybe you thought it wasn't a bad idea. It wasn't a good idea.

The problem is that we empowered the president to run roughshod over us in the last election because nobody stood up to him on the October vote.*there's the statement of nobody, negating the list of names.* If you all had voted no, we could have gone out and made our case to the American people. But instead you didn't vote no.

KUCINICH: You said no(body, which Kucinich said but was drowned out by applause), and that's not true. I led the effort. Do you want to correct that statement?

DEAN: No, no, I didn't mention you. I didn't mention you.

*comments surrounded by asterisks added by me.

Again, Dean didn't mention Kucinich, however he negated his list of named individuals when he chose to use the phrase "NOBODY stood up to him". NOBODY means exactly what it says, NO BODY. SOMEBODY DID stand up to George Bush on the October vote and Dean chose to dismiss that as irrelevant.

[redqueen]

43. Wow, using words disingenuously to subtly mislead people

into believing something is true that really 'technically' isn't...

Wow, who could have seen that coming?!

Wonder where he learned that trick!

Wait, he's a politician, right? They all do it! Don't they?

[Voltaire99]

23. In what way is Dean "against" the war in Iraq?

He correctly criticizes Congress (and his fellow candidates) for voting blindly for war, but simultaneously shrugs his shoulders with the cautious "this sucks, but we're stuck" position.

That's really a convenient position to hold - and pretty useless for solving our Iraq problem.

When Dean articulates something approaching a meaningful position on Iraq, we may be able to say he's "against" the war. For now, despite his bluster, he's offering no direction other than grimacing at the status quo.

That's not enough. We need leaders who will lead us out of the quagmire.

[unfrigginreal]

24. Dennis has gotten more press in the last 2 days...

then he had for the entire year. So far, he hasn't "wasted" anything, in fact he's gained mediawhore time that would have gone to one of the other candidates. It's been a shrewd move so far. If they actually spend the money, then I may agree that it's a waste.

[maxanne]

25. He's beginning to sound

as if he's engaging in a petty vendetta. All the bashing he's doing, just makes him seem smaller. If he can afford TV ads, great - but he should not lose sight of who we're really fighting.

Dennis is certainly the candidate whose views are closest to my heart.I just don't think he can win. And I have to say, after some exposure on several occasions now, his campaign staff is terrible.

[cosmicdot]

26. a Dean supporter concerned about DK's funds - how noble

~sigh~
:eyes:

[FubarFly]

33. There's no need for any hubris from Dean (or his supporters).

It is not wise to underestimate or alienate any Kucinich supporter. Dean shouldn't reedit the commercial, but he should publicly acknowledge that he wasn't referring to Dennis either. A little graciousness here from Dean would be a good thing. If he backed down to this blindside attack and pulled the ads, it would give Kucinich momentum and encouragement. If he tactfully and diplomatically words an apology to clear up an obvious misunderstanding, then this should become a non-issue. If after this, Kucinich still presses this line of attack, then he will rightfully be open to charges of coattail riding and political opportunism.

[diamondsoul]

35. You know, you'd be on ignore right now,

if I didn't care so much about Congressman Kucinich and his bid for the Presidency.

Every last one of your posts about Kucinich is pure flame-bait. It isn't "wasting precious funds" if it gets him some of the recognition the mainstream press continues to deny him. It isn't "wasting precious funds" if it gives voters the facts and shows Dean for the lying politician he so clearly is.

You OTOH are wasting your preofessed preferred candidates support with your persistant flame-bait posts about my candidate. The more of this crap I see the less likely I am to honor the ABB pledge purely because the integrity and character of ones supporters speaks volumes about the chrarcter and integrity of the politician. Kucinich supporters by and large respect each other, Congressman Kucinich and other candidates as well as other candidates supporters. We may question, challenge or debate, but disrespect is not part of the equation. You and your posts make me certain respect for Howard Dean is on shaky terrain.

Not a problem for me, but lemme tell ya, you're NOT helping Howard Deanmake me even consider granting him my precious vote.

[w13rd0]

36. But will you give Howard Dean...

...your "precious bodily fluids"?

Ok, I'm joking. In all seriousness though, you know that there are "rowdy apples" in every bunch. There are some supporters of every candidate (save one that I can think of) that I've had to wince and either ignore or disregard so that I might honestly assess the candidates on their own merits. If I struck everyone off my list that had one or more assholes proclaiming their praises I'd be left with mighty slim pickins.

[diamondsoul]

37. I'll be honest, there are other reasons I'm

having a hard time with the idea of supporting Dean. The thing that really makes me so angry about it is that I'm trying to be realistic and prepared for it if Kucinich doesn't get the nomination.

What that means is that I may yet have to accept a candidate who is less than ideal in my eyes, and behavior like that of the original poster (and others like him) does NOT help. You're right that it probably isn't fair of me to associate that with Dean himself, however that's one reason I work very hard at being civil when I'm talking about my candidate vs others. I KNOW what I say and how I behave reflects on him in the mind of the person I'm dealing with. I don't want someone hearing the name Kucinich and thinking "Oh that awful person who did nothing but insult Howard Dean!".

That's how it's getting to be for me. I see or hear the name Howard Dean and all I think is "What has he mis-spoken about this time?" or "How many rounds of defend Dennis Kucinich do I have to go through today?". Not your fault nor even the fault of MOST Dean supporters. Unfortunately the ones who are responsible are the ones who tend to stick in my memory.

[Demobrat]

39. In the ad Dean talks about his opponents

who supported the war. Since that group doesn't include Dennis, why does he rate a mention from Dean at all? Sharpton and Mosely-Braun aren't whining.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Demobrat]

45. Truth hurts.

Oh, well.

[Desertrose]

42. Probably because they didn't vote against it

the way Dennis did...they didn't have the option to do that....same way Dean can say whatever he wants but at least DK is on record for his stand against the war!

It was a move to dismiss Dennis to make him (Dean) look better.

If your candidate can't be honest enough to tell the whole truth while he's running...what will it be like if he should ever become prez?
Dean may tell it like it is...but he only tells his version of it....seems to me we already have a prez doing that......
:eyes:

Peace
DR

[Demobrat]

44. Dean doesn't have to dismiss Dennis to look better.

People like Dean or not for Dean. The truth is Dennis doesn't matter, and this feeble attempt to pretend he does hasn't helped him, or hurt Dean in the least. The guy is a mosquito pestering a lion.

[hippywife]

41. Not to worry, Pruner..

we'll be happy to hand him more money to fight the lies that are being perpetuated. Dennis stands for truth and integrity, why would he not call Dean out on this? Would you stand still for it if you were the one who saw the writing on the wall over a year before the war actually happened and were being disrespected by someone who didn't speak up until war was imminent?

I seriously doubt you would.