I'm no Dean fan, but....

[arissa]

I'm no Dean fan (centrist with a progressive mask on, in my personal opinion, just like Clinton turned out to be, go Kucinich!!), but I must admit a little frustration with how people seem to be reacting to Karl Rove's now infamous statements.

I think it's plainly obvious that a) Karl Rove is no idiot, and b) Karl Rove knows the game of politics very well. Therefore it is logical to concluce that c) Karl Rove knew well and good what he was starting when he made the comment that he wants Dean to win the 2004 nomination. This means that d) Karl Rove wanted it to be publicized.

Why? Simple - because he's actually afraid of Dean. All he had to do was let that comment leak to the media and BAM! people on the left jumped on it and screamed to high heaven about how "Dean can't win."

Bullhockey. The fact that Rove let that comment get out testifies to the fact that they're actually afraid of Dean. And this brings me to another frustrating thing I'm tired of reading, this so-called "electability."

It's as if the people around here refuse to look past stupid, media-created things like "left vs. right." "Oh, Kucinich/Sharpton/Dean can't win! They're too liberal!"

Please people, listen to yourselves. That's essentially the DLC and the conservative media talking through you. What you're failing to realize is that most people don't see things as "left vs. right." Most people want someone who they can believe in, who they believe is honest, and who they believe is genuine - left vs. right means absolutely nothing. Class has far more clout than position on the political spectrum.

Why does Kucinich have a political record of defeating conservative incumbents in conservative districts if people are so turned off by his liberalism? See, people like Wellstone, Kucinich, and Sharpton can win because they're honest, genuine people who understand class politics. Conservative Christian fundamentalists vote for Kucinich because they're laborers, and they know Kucinich will fight for the lower classes. Wellstone won so many times not because he ran to the center but because he connected to people via class struggle and grassroots, honest campaigning - Kucinich does the exact same thingin Ohio.

The bogus media/DLC/corporation created myth that liberals can't be elected and you need tons of corporate cash to be competitive shouldn't be repeated on a thoughtful discussion board like DU. Wellstone didn't need tons of corporate cash to win. Wellstone didn't need to run to the center out of fear of offending some made-up class of suburban yuppies. Kucinich has proven he has that same grassroots ability in Ohio.

So let's put some thought into this, shall we, rather than perpetuating the self-fulfilling prophecy of so-called "electability"?

[newsguyatl]

1. AMEN!

...

[MoonAndSun]

2. Right on!!!!!

why do so many people keep falling for Rove's dirty tricks?

By the way, Dean is my guy, but I also like DK very much. And also, welcome to DU!! :hi:

[AnAmerican]

3. Well said arrisa

AnAmerican

[AmyStrange]

4. I'm a Dean fan, but

I like Kucinich too and the way he is giving Bush* hell over the WMDs. That is soooooooo sweeeeet. Good luck to your guy from a Dean fan,

Dave (AmyStrange.com)

DU (slang/ folklore) Glossary (Dictionary): http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/
WMD article Index and Archives: http://WMD.seattleactivist.org/

[dsc]

5. Kucinich's Congressional district

and the city of Cleveland are not conservative. Yes he did defeat Republican incumbents in both cases but both were special cases. Ralph Perk became mayor due to his being a white person running against a black Democrat. In short, he won on race. The Congressional district was represented for over a decade by Mary Rose Ockar a Democrat who got targetted by the Plain Dealer. She had written hundreds of 'bad' checks in the House bank scandal, was accused, falsely, of having used government money for personal gain. She was eventually indicted and ran under indictment. She won a divisive primary and lost to Martin Hoke. Hoke then ran against the Cuyahoga County Treasurer for his reelection. Just then the derivative scandal broke and the Treasurer looked like an incompetent or a crook. Then Kucinich ran and won. Other than Hoke this district was solidly Democratic since before I was born.

[PATRICK]

6. About Rove...

On the other hand, the arrogance of success and consistency of method AND sending out clear messages to Repuke minions would argue that Rove means it when he says he wants Dean.

Note the jokes made about the leaked strategy slide presentation for 2002. And so they did and so they won. It made the GOP candidates nervous at first but they all marched in step. They only got plastered by people who met that strategy headon, not those who tried to fretfully outmanoeuver or hide.

I am not joining Rove in trashing Dean however. It is more of a question
as General Grant once said in the Wilderness battle, not what the feared General Lee was planning to do, but what the Union army was going to do.

In no way should we go negative as an adjunct of Rove second guessing, but build up all our candidates for a solid public choice(and no vote rigging). Otherwise it just looks as though the WH actually IS calling our own shots. When will the people get their own say for once?

[DrGonzoLives]

7. Sharpton can't win

Sorry, but there are far too many people, left and right, that are turned off by the guy. They see him as a glory-hound, seeking the camera eye whenever he gets the opportunity. It would take a lot of time and money to overcome that, neither of which Sharpton has or is likely to get anytime soon.

Of all the Democratic candidates, the only one that I see as "unelectable" is Sharpton. This is not to say that I don't agree with many of his stances, but it just ain't gonna happen.

[keek]

8. "the biggest lie

that people like me tell people like you is that if you elect me, I'll solve all of your problems."
---- Gov. Howard Dean MD

Dean is not a sell out type of centrist. He is a centrist by nature, just as you say that most Americans are. They don't think, oh, that's too far to the left, or that's too far to the right. They think yes and no. right or wrong. I agree or I disagree. Sell out centrists say, "oh, that's too far to the right or to the left, I won't get reelected." Dean's views are not your typical sell out centrist I wanna get elected talk. Dean is quite radical in his foreign policy goals (opposing the war in Iraq), and his social views (civil unions..) He follows his conscious and analyzes the facts before making a decision. He doesn't follow what his ideology or party tells him to do.