Kucinich calls election 2000 a "theft"

[AnAmerican]

According to this Associated Press story; (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/12/politics/main562983.shtml)

on CBSNews, the Pentagon is seeking a major role in managing the votes of millions of Americans. This should send a chill across the United States. In a democratic society, it's not appropriate for the military to manage an election. We must not permit this dangerous incursion into the election system itself. Can we trust an administration which stole a presidential election, has attacked the bill of rights, and which deliberately misrepresented intelligence to lead this nation into an unjust war to faithfully protect the security of the 2004 election? I repeat my call on all Americans to join in a mighty protest so that we may protect the 2004 election from the kind of theft which deprived the American people of an honest election in the year 2000.

Dennis J. Kucinich

Story on the Kucinich Blog

[mkregel]

1. I'm sorry

Theres no way I can even consider voting for a candidate who supports the Flag Burning Ammendment (yes, he voted in favor of making it a crime to burn the flag.)

Keep this in mind when voting

[AnAmerican]

2. (sigh) I thought we had talked about this already

Dennis voted for that bill because he has a respect for the flag, and for the thousands who have died defending it. This was not a vote due to ultra-nationalistic or jingoistic tendencies.

Due to having a brother who served, Dennis feels the flag is a symbol and deserves respect, much as our vets deserve respect. I know lots of progressives who feel the same way. Others regard it as a free speech issue, but I would ask them, if it is okay to burn the flag as a free speech act, is it ok to demean the veterans of our nation?

This IS a touchy subject, I agree, but it is only ONE issue. Overall Dennis has proven, time and time again, that he stands up for the rights of all Americans.

I WAS disappointed in that vote, but I am not naive enough to think that MY feelings should be shared 100% by my candidate. Dennis hits my values 99% of the time. I will not hold one vote against him.

AnAmerican

[mkregel]

3. Maybe you can

But to me America is not about the flag - it's a scrap of fabric. Kinda kewl one but fabric nonetheless. Soldiers didn't die in Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, etc for the flag. They died for our freedoms. A freedom in which Kucinich voted against.

So, if he can't tell the difference between a flag and freedom, then I don't want him anywhere near the Oval Office.

[Darranar]

5. One issue...

and not a very important one, IMO. How about his stance on Iraq, the Patriot Act, the economy, the huge corporations who dominate everything? All great stances, almost identical to the views of most progressives on DU.

[mkregel]

7. Kucinich on the issues

On Iraq I agree with him.

On the economy I think he's a little off base - we need a more Keynesian approach (government spends during downtimes, saves during good - in essence Clintonomics.)

Corporations dominate our lives true, but you can't beat that beast in one election. First we need to fix the economy and allow for a greater marketplace of ideas. Put the FCC back in the people's hands. Break up the monopolies. In essence we need Supreme Court justices who will enforce anti-trust laws. But things are so far in the hands of the corporations it will take years to fix this. Kucinich is Don Quioxte facing the windmill in this case.

Dean is my candidate because he pursues a practical, realistic approach, focusing more on pragmatism than idealism. I also like his stance on guns - earnest, insightful comprimise. He was against Iraq from day 1, and is a progressive (not a liberal - there is a difference) in the vein of Theodore AND Franklin Roosevelt.

[revcarol]

11. DK wants to renew the infrastructure and build schools, a very Keynesian

concept to reduce unemployment,prime the pump for the economy, and it's good for the whole nation as we all have a stake in community and the economy.He knows that one must spend in down times and save in good, as you put it.He will get the two tax cuts repealed to help put the government in better shape.

He will reactivate the Department of Justice's ANTI-TRUST division and go after monopolies and combines that are strangling our economy and destroying our democracy. Particularly on his list are THE MEDIA, AGRI-BUSINESS, FINANCIAL GIANTS and one other I can't remember. He will see that the TAFT-HARTLEY ACT IS REPEALED, so that labor can once again get a fair shake.

We know the devastation of the Bushies and repugs cannot be overcome overnight. But he does have a PLAN to get it out of this mile-deep hole the Bushies have thrown us into. And it is REALISTIC AND PRAGMATIC!!

[mkregel]

15. What about

....tax breaks for R & D (call it corporate welfare, its the kind of thing that made the 90's)

...increasing Small Business loans?



BTW...Dean has health care plans that could actually get passed by congress (I like single payer too, but it AINT gonna happen)


Oh and what's with DK skipping out on the NAACP?

[Dragonfly]

6. The heartfelt feelings expressed...

by AnAmerican rival my own on this topic.

The basic thing for me is that no serious progressive activist who wants to help bring confused and frightened mainstream voters on board would ever see that burning the flag is an intelligent course of action.

Why do something in a flagrantly incendiary manner which alienates the very people we need to checkmate this out-of-control monster devouring the planet?

I'd love to hear some things about your candidate that are positive elements of his/her platform which you strongly believe in.

In the meantime, your feeble protests concerning one issue that you don't agree with Congressman Kucinich about won't impede a gigantic movement steadily capturing a true and just peace, whose advocates feel genuine sorrow for any and all purveyors of naive negativism.

10. If Kucinich is so bad about civil liberties why is he the only one...

making this statement? Where does the ACLU rate him? You sound like a petty, narrowminded hack.

[revcarol]

12. DK wants to repeal the Patriot Act and parts of the Homeland Security Act.

This is a man that is rabid FOR civil liberties.

[LWolf]

23. thumbs up

This is a really positive sign for DK. When people who support other candidates spend this much time and energy starting threads bashing DK and hijacking threads supporting DK, it means he's getting noticed and people are getting worried. After all, if he is truly not a factor, why spend the time and energy on him?

I'm a DK supporter, and I'm not happy with the flag vote. I agree with Dragonfly when he says,

The basic thing for me is that no serious progressive activist who wants to help bring confused and frightened mainstream voters on board would ever see that burning the flag is an intelligent course of action.

Why do something in a flagrantly incendiary manner which alienates the very people we need to checkmate this out-of-control monster devouring the planet?

I just don't think we need to legislate it.

So far, I have found 2 things DK has voted for that I don't agree with. I wouldn't expect 100%; I've yet to meet another human being on the planet I agree with 100% of the time. Only 2; the rest of his votes support my views. This is good. This is the first time in my 43 years (or 30 years or so paying attention to politics, if you like) that I can say that about a candidate. In the general election, it will be ABB. But for now, I'll stick with the candidate that most closely aligns with my outlook and hopes for my country.

The more fire DK encounters, the more notice he is getting. That's ok with me.

[Darranar]

4. YES!

KUCINICH FOR PRESIDENT! His stances on almost every issue match mine.

[leftyandproud]

8. YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT!

You know you agree with him! You know Kucinich stands up for YOU...the BASE! GET BEHIND HIM!

[mkregel]

9. Not me

last thing I want is someone with no economic plan and a distaste of the first ammendment running around making huge changes....

[revcarol]

13. Oh, now it's no economic plan? And I thought you were a one issue voter!!

Check his site then come back and discuss HIS PLAN.

BTW, DK wants to go after the media for ANTI-TRUST VIOLATIONS. Then maybe we can have a voice.

[mkregel]

14. And how does DK plan on doing it????

Is he going to issue an executive order breaking up the media conglomorates? That kind of shock would destroy our economy!

Is he going to pass every anti-trust bill that the Republican congresses have lined up (all of ...counting...ZERO!)

Sorry....He has no plan.

17. No he does have a plan, a policy

getting it through is something else, but is that a reason to vote for a candidate that won't take a position or defends the media conglomerates, like all the rest?

16. Where Kucinich stands on civil liberties

The unfolding of the promise of democracy in our nation paralleled the striving for civil rights. That is why we must challenge the rationale of the Patriot Act. We must ask why should America put aside guarantees of constitutional justice?

We all agree that terrorists should be brought to justice, but what kind of justice? The American jurisprudence system is the envy of the free world with its emphasis on due process. Yet a recent Executive Order of this administration substitutes our American justice system for military tribunals where officers sit as judge and jury, with secret evidence, secret witnesses, secret verdicts and even secretly handed down death sentences.

We cannot justify widespread wiretaps and Internet surveillance without judicial supervision, let alone with it. We cannot justify secret searches without a warrant. We cannot justify giving the Attorney General the ability to designate domestic terror groups. We cannot justify giving the FBI total access to any type of data that may exist in any system anywhere such as medical records and financial records.

We cannot justify giving the CIA the ability to target people in this country for intelligence surveillance. We cannot justify a government that takes from the people our right to privacy and then assumes for its own operations a right to total secrecy.

This is not reflective of Jeffersonian Democracy. This is Kafka's "The Trial", writ large. We should not let the actions of terrorists cause us to reject our American system of justice. The ultimate terror in a democracy is the destruction of constitutional principles. Let us defend against terrorism. And may we always remain "one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

http://kucinich.us/issues/issue_civilliberties.htm


He is calling for the complete repeal of the PATRIOT Act. Which other presidential candidate is doing that? Personally I'm more concerned with government surveillance and violations of the 4th, 5th and 6th than I am with a flag burning bill which won't pass muster with the Supreme Court (even if it did so what). After all without the 4th, 5th and 6th you won't have the 1st.

As someone so concerned with freedom of speech maybe you could tell me if you agree with the judgment in Virginia v. Black.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

18. well

he's right.

[burr]

19. Voting Fraud running wild.

Digital Signature is all that is required. This will make it easy not only to sell one's vote to an employer, Party, or friend...but no personal contact or supervision over the voting process opens the door for this corruption. Many states require voters to show photo ID before they photo and before they obtain their absentee ballot. This should be done in all 50 states at the very least. The standards on absentee ballots have to be much tougher. The voter should be allowed to come in on any day before the election to vote. They must vote inside a private booth and show photo ID. Ballots must be placed in a box where all votes will be counted together on election day. But no voter should be allowed to vote in their residence or any place where they are able to hand their ballot to someone else, and let that person vote in their place!

Election day must be made a holiday. Most importantly all disabled individuals must be given any transportation and assistance required to be allowed to cast a fair and private vote. Finally if Kucinich and others are truly disgusted about the theft of the 2000 election, they can further show it by supporting a Constitutional Amendment that requires all states to distribute their Electoral College votes proportionally based on the breakdown of popular vote.

[Desertrose]

20. I agree-election day should be a holiday

everyone should have ample time to cast their votes....

...no reporting on anything until all polls close and have the polls open for 24 hrs (if it is not a holiday-or even if)

and please...
PAPER TRAIL is vital!!!
peace
DR

[deek]

21. shameless kick n/t

.

[found object]

22. A little therapy for mkreigl?

I suggest that he just head for the nearest walmart, buy a flag, take it home to mom and dad and burn it. "Look ma, I support the Deaner!...(he he)" Hope thats not too harsh.

[LWolf]

24. I am so glad to hear him speak about this.

I'm certain that Bush is down for the count in 04, as long as the votes are counted correctly. I'm sure I'm not alone is saying that, after Florida, I no longer trust the process. The only way Bush will win in 04 is to steal the votes. I hope all the candidates are speaking up about the issue. It doesn't really matter who gets the nomination, if we can't count on the vote count in the general election.

[dpbrown]

25. Call a spade a spade!

Dennis Kucinich, speaking truth to power.

I'm a menace for Dennis!

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota