The Doctor Is In-competent

[DeanandBushSuck]

On my site (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DeanisnotaDemocrat) a person posted this:

W4rma Wrote:

(Howard Dean said) "I will order the FDA to study marijuana to see
what medicinal effects it may have. I do not think marijuana should have a process different than every other drug to evaluate whether or not it has medical value."

"I do not favor legalization because we already have enough problems
with the two drugs that are legal, alcohol and tobacco."

Either Dean is at a loss as to what the FDA does or he is misleading
people. Marijuana is NOT a drug. It is a herb. Herbs do NOT fall under the jurisdiction of the FOOD and DRUG Administration. Only drugs and food fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA, hence the name. If the FDA took control over herbs, you would have to recall every herb in the country and test every single one before releasing them again to the public. If you do not believe me, go to any drug market or Super Grocery store in the United States, go to the supplemental herbs and minerals. Look on the back of the bottle. It will say somewhere on it that "It has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration".
If you are to lazy to do that, check the back of your Vitamin "C"
bottle, it says the same thing.

A reasonable person would give a grant to a University,allow them to run tests on varies types of marijuana with
volunteers that have diagnosed illness or disease. Then write a
Federal Law allowing these individuals not to be prosecuted and
attach to the federal grant a requirement of the state legislature to
pass a similar law to get the grant monies for the University. Dean
did not allow this happen in his own state.

Dean is a doctor, he should know this stuff! I think he is playing
with peoples heads.

1)He called the FDA to do tests on a herb. Not in the FDA's legal
jurisdiction.

2) He has repeatedly called Marijuana a drug. He also called tobacco
a drug. Tobacco is not a drug either, it is a plant or herb, not a
drug, nicotine is a drug.


Is this a:

A)Slip of tongue multiple times?

B) Deliberate manipulation?

C) Dean is not really good Doctor?

D) Both b and c?

[MercutioATC]

1. By your reasoning, cocaine and opium are "herbs"...

...and should not be regulated.

Reply?

(on edit)

What the HELL are we teaching in colleges these days...certainly not the ability to make critical appraisals.

[Sick of Bullshit]

6. Cocaine and opium are NOT herbs

They are products that are created from plants (coca leaves and opium poppy, respectively), but the drugs themselves do not grow wild

[MercutioATC]

19. A dupe, but a reply...

I realize I may not have typed it slowly enough for you to understand, but that was my point with the coca leaves. It doesn't matter that you can't snort them as leaves, they contain a controlled substance. THAT'S what makes them (and marijuana) illegal.

[DeanandBushSuck]

7. They are processed

Opium and Cocaine are processed. Coca leaves are not in the form of cocain. Go to Columbia. Opium is also processed. Sorry, difference there.

[MercutioATC]

9. No difference..try importing coca leaves...

..or growing them here. Same penalties as growing pot (at least here in my state). Do you research ANYTHING?


(on edit)

Chew a coca leaf sometime...same effect. Cocaine does not have to be "processed", it's just concentrated from coca leaves.

[DeanandBushSuck]

12. Never said it was legal

You are making things up now. I know coca leaves can't be imported.

[MercutioATC]

17. Actually, the point is moot.

Marijuana is an "herb" that contains the controlled substance "THC". If you'd like to process "THC-free" pot and get it certified, then I'd agree that your pot was an "herb". Otherwise, it's a plant that contains a controlled substance.

I realize I may not have typed it slowly enough for you to understand, but that was my point with the coca leaves. It doesn't matter that you can't snort them as leaves, they contain a controlled substance. THAT'S what makes them (and marijuana) illegal.

[aneerkoinos]

33. To my understanding

opium is not necessarily "processed" like morphene and heroin are.

Just collect the good stuff from poppy, that's opium, a natural product.

[Ediacara]

2. Uh.... sorry

I am in favor of legalizing marijuana, but it IS a drug. Alcohol is a drug, tobacco is a drug, and so is marijuana. People who brand marijuana an "herb" move back the legalization movement and make us all seem like idiots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Corect

Marihuana has THP which is the drug element of it.

Should it be legalized HELL YES, should it be regulated in some sense like tobacco and alchohol and taxed HELL YES... for the same reasons, mostly.

[arcos]

8. THC, actually

short for tetra-hydro-cannabinol

[DeanandBushSuck]

15. I Agree

[arcos]

3. Let's not answer!!!

It seems this poster only wants to slam Dean... Just let the thread sink.

[MercutioATC]

24. You're right, of course, Arcos, but...

this is just TOO easy. Apparently, earning "3 degrees" in college doesn't have the same requirements it used to.

[Jim Sagle]

29. Better yet, let's all hit the Alert button.

Best get this sumbitch booted PRONTO!!!!!!!

[haymaker]

5. Where can I find a "drug market", as you

so aptly put it? For that matter, where can I find a "Super Grocery"?

Those wouldn't be multiple slips of the tongue, no wait, they couldn't be slips of the tongue, you TYPED them. So you must have meant it. Tell me, where can I find them?

DeanandBushSuck? Good name. Boy, you are sharp. Have another toke.

[DeanandBushSuck]

11. What part of the country are you from????

A Super Grocery Store, is a large super grocery store, like Vons, Albertsons, Safeway, Tidyman's, Giant, Lucky's, Food Basket etc. Sure you heard of one. A none super grocery store is like Circle K or 7-ll.

Drug stores and Drug Markets are all over the place. My town has about 5. Bigger towns have some called Rite-Aid around here. They are called Drug Markets and Drug Stores. Ask you Grandmother, she knows where one is.

[Ediacara]

18. uh, you mean superMARKETS?

Maybe in Moscow, you call them super grocery stores, but everywhere else in the English speaking world you say supermarket.

[DeanandBushSuck]

20. Depends where you are

Some people call soft drinks, soft-drinks, pop, soda, cola, soda pop, and some others use the term coke, to refer to all soda.

[Ediacara]

21. uh sorry

but supper grocery store and drug market are terms never ever used, except, aparently by you.

[Gore1FL]

28. Why is it

that you concede that things are referred to by different names for different reasons, but you you can't get over Dean calling a herb naturally containing a drug, a drug?

Are Semantic differences only allowed when you make them?

So far, every thread I have seen you post on tell half the story, or use semnatics to illuminate flaws that really don't exist.

Frankly, it reminds me of the "Gore lies" bullshit we heard in 2000.

If you have a valid case to make, make it. So far I have seen unsupported nitpicking.

[tedzbear]

10. The active ingredient in marijuana IS A DRUG!!!!!!

THC is the chemical that induces the euphoria and sedation of marijuana, just like caffeine is the drug in coffee that speeds you up.
In fact, there is a FDA approved pill called Marinol that is used for the treatment of pain and lack of appetite in AIDS. It is the synthetic version of the THC molecule in marijuana.

Sorry, but Dean is correct. He is an M.D. for gods sake.
Are you???
:P

[DeanandBushSuck]

14. Yes, but duh. . .

It is taking the drug out of the plant. Apples have drugs too in the seeds. If someone where to take the seeds out and make a Drug, that would be considered a drug. Go to the Drug market and ask a few questions please.

[Hoppin_Mad]

13. Put DOWN the bong, and back away from the computer

slowly

[DeanandBushSuck]

16. tell that to Dean

I don't smoke pot, sorry. It is Dean that has been trying to keep it from people that need it for medical reasons.

[w13rd0]

23. Just a suggestion...

...but this is a community. You might find people a little less abbrasive to your um...point of view...if you actually participated in threads other than ones you create to bash Dean. It makes you look...well...it's just not a good way to go about things. People tend to dismiss you if you run around all the time hating on one particular person or issue.

[AmyStrange]

22. hehehehehehe

Dave (AmyStrange.com)

DU (slang/ folklore) Glossary (Dictionary): http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/
Index of WMD Articles: http://WMD.SeattleActivist.org/

Here are some excellent resources and timelines of quotes and interviews and newspaper article quotes documenting the different things Bush and Co did and said for the last two plus years concerning the war in Iraq and WMDs (and other fun things) from the Howard Dean Website---even if you're not a Dean Fan, these are still excellent resources:

The Bush Administration And WMDs: Then And Now:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=bush_wmd_summary

Niger-Uranium Timeline:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=niger_timeline

Bush and WMD: Assumptions vs. Reality:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/TikTok_-_Bush_-_Iraq_-_Side_by_Side.pdf?docID=781

The Bush Administration and WMD: What did they know and when did they know it?:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/TikTok_-_Administration_-_Iraq_Deception.pdf?docID=762

[sfecap]

25. Actually this poster is un - informed...

The FDA certainly DOES regulate herbs....

"FDA regulates dietary supplements under a different set of regulations than those covering "conventional" foods and drug products (prescription and Over-the-Counter). Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), the dietary supplement manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that a dietary supplement is safe before it is marketed. FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. Generally, manufacturers do not need to register with FDA nor get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements. Manufacturers must make sure that product label information is truthful and not misleading."

"What is a dietary supplement?
Congress defined the term "dietary supplement" in the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994. A dietary supplement is a product taken by mouth that contains a "dietary ingredient" intended to supplement the diet. The "dietary ingredients" in these products may include: vitamins, minerals, herbs or other botanicals, amino acids, and substances such as enzymes, organ tissues, glandulars, and metabolites. Dietary supplements can also be extracts or concentrates, and may be found in many forms such as tablets, capsules, softgels, gelcaps, liquids, or powders. They can also be in other forms, such as a bar, but if they are, information on their label must not represent the product as a conventional food or a sole item of a meal or diet. Whatever their form may be, DSHEA places dietary supplements in a special category under the general umbrella of "foods," not drugs, and requires that every supplement be labeled a dietary supplement.

What is a "new dietary ingredient" in a dietary supplement?
The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994 defined both of the terms "dietary ingredient" and "new dietary ingredient" as components of dietary supplements. In order for an ingredient of a dietary supplement to be a "dietary ingredient," it must be one or any combination of the following substances:

a vitamin,
a mineral,
an herb or other botanical,
an amino acid,
a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total dietary intake (e.g., enzymes or tissues from organs or glands), or
a concentrate, metabolite, constituent or extract.
A "new dietary ingredient" is one that meets the above definition for a "dietary ingredient" and was not sold in the U.S. in a dietary supplement before October 15, 1994.

What is FDA's role in regulating dietary supplements versus the manufacturer's responsibility for marketing them?
In October 1994, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) was signed into law by President Clinton. Before this time, dietary supplements were subject to the same regulatory requirements as were other foods. This new law, which amended the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, created a new regulatory framework for the safety and labeling of dietary supplements."

(more...much more...)


http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-oview.html#what

[opihimoimoi]

27. Dean for PREZ

He da guy who gonna do it, make America Great once more. bring Honor and Sanity back to the White House.

Shrubby, despite 10 years of training, practicing, still cannot read the teleprompter without draping himself over the Podium. and sluring a few words to death.

Dean makes the shrub look like a weed/

[uhhuh]

26. I may be stupid, but

I thought that most of the things that are considered "drugs" by the FDA derived from some natural source. If Dean was writing an article for JAMA, I might think that he sounds like a stupid doctor, but I think he was speaking or writing this for general consumption.

Do you think he should always speak in solid medical jargon when addressing a wide audience?? Do Kerry or Clark( military men ) always have to reference military matters in military terms? If they do, I hope you are ready for a bunch of threads with quotes from both of them speaking in plain, understandable english about military affairs. Would that make them unqualified on the subject? Do you have evidence that Dean is/was a poor doctor? If not, I think you are really trying too hard to hate him and reaching for anything.

On edit:
Also, you said:
A reasonable person would give a grant to a University,allow them to run tests on varies types of marijuana with
volunteers that have diagnosed illness or disease. Then write a
Federal Law allowing these individuals not to be prosecuted and
attach to the federal grant a requirement of the state legislature to
pass a similar law to get the grant monies for the University. Dean
did not allow this happen in his own state.

I think we had a discussion last night about whether or not states have the right to enact their own legislation. You said they do, but that the Federal Government could cut off funding if they do things they don't like. Do you see the possibility that this may have occured in Vermont had they attempted such a thing? Why do you seem to want to argue two opposing positions?

[ClintonTyree]

30. Your anti-Dean agenda.................

is going to blow up in you face if you're not carefull. I suggest you find some other topics to address, ohhhhhhhhhh I don't know, maybe attacking freeking republicans for a change. All of your posts are just plain Dean bashing with nothing constructive to say. Your Dean hatred is getting annoying and henceforth you are on my ignore list.

[DoctorMyEyes]

31. Just popping in to admire your tombstone!

Bye stupid!

[Duder]

32. You should rename your little Bush lite site to...

PimpingfortheRepukes.

[MaverickX]

34. a few points..

1.)The President has no authority to legalize drugs

2.)There has been no proven medical use for marijuana

3.)The President has no authority to force the FDA to approve marijuana for medical use

4.)The FDA does have authority to regulate cigarettes as a drug

[pmbryant]

35. Locking

This post was started by a fellow whose account has been turned off, so I am locking this thread.

pmbryant
DU Moderator