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Why I think Dennis Kucinich's Supposed Weaknesses May Be Strengths

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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 08:51 PM
Original message
Why I think Dennis Kucinich's Supposed Weaknesses May Be Strengths
Three critiques I hear regularly regarding Dennis Kucinich are: 1) He "switched" on choice to run for President, 2) You can't cut the Defense Budget during the "War on Terror," and 3) He's unelectable.

In the following essay, I take a crack at those three supposed weaknesses.

Choice

During the period of time when Rep. Kucinich received the worst rating by groups that monitor pro-choice votes he:

1. Voted against requiring counselors to notify parents and impose a five-day waiting period when minors entered family planning clinics to buy contraceptives.

2. He voted to force federal health care plans that include drug coverage to include coverage for contraceptives.

3. He voted against creating a new crime of assaulting a pregnant women based on causing harm to a fetus.

4. He voted against a measure that would have banned the use of US Population funds to advocate abortion as a family planning measure.

5. He voted against banning "partial birth" abortion when the health of the mother is not specially protected as an exception to the ban.

Rep. Kucinich's votes are votes of empowerment. His votes, even during this time, were focused on putting more control over reproductive choice in the hands of the person making that choice. Since that time, he's come to a fuller understanding of the gender inequity ramifications involved in the pro-choice movement, and is the only candidate who has declared his intention to make judicial nominations subject to a litmus test on Roe v. Wade.

It should be noted that Antonin Scalia has expounded that judges should "quit" if they're not pro-death penalty, because that is the "law of the land." In just that way, Roe v. Wade is the law of the land, and no candidate has embarked on so bold a policy decision as to plumb from each potential judicial appointee their position on upholding that "law of the land." Rep. Kucinich's movement from personal empowerment to broad, full, and deep support of the positions of the pro-choice movement put him in the unique position of being the best candidate on choice, because he came to his position not through an examination of what would be the politically expedient choice, but through a natural evolution of his deeply held belief in personal empowerment and the responsibility of society and the government to play a healthy role in the development of that empowerment.

Candidate Kucinich is clearly, in my mind, the best candidate on choice.

Pentagon versus Terror

As to the Pentagon, candidate Kucinich is the best candidate to promote safety and an effective defense as well.

A recent NOW with Bill Moyers presentation outlined the dramatic and startling inability of the Pentagon to track where it spends the mountains of money it receives from Congress. For more than 14 years it has been unable to answer the simple question, posed to it under the Chief Financial Officers Act of 1990, "did you spend the money Congress gave you on the things Congress authorized you to spend it on." Not once in 14 years has the Pentagon been able to answer "yes" or "no" to that simple question. That's not even a real audit. It's just accountability. The Pentagon is unaccountable to the public, because they can't figure out how they're spending the public's money. And if they can't determine how the money's being spent, they're not keeping us safe. Simple as that.
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_spinney.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/defensedollars.html

The Pentagon is not keeping us safe. Where does the money go? Here's one place, and it ties directly with the corruption George Bush brought to Washington. CEO pay at Lockheed Martin went up from $5.8 million in 2000 to $25.3 million in 2002. CEO pay went up at General Dynamics from $5.7 million in 2001 to $15.2 million in 2002. It went up at Honeywell from $12.9 million in 2000 to $45 million in 2002. It went up from Northrop Grumman from $7.3 million in 2000 to $9.2 million in 2002. What do those figures say to you?

What they say to me is the Pentagon is another slush fund for rich military contractors to raid the Treasury.

The Pentagon is not keeping us safe when the cost of weapons rises faster than the price to produce them. That's called "cost growth" and what it means is the cost of weapons increases faster than the budget. And this has been going on for 40 years. And when the budget increases, that basically creates an incentive structure to jack up the cost even further. We saw this in the 1980's. You can think of the 1980's as the mother of all experiments. And when Ronald Reagan poured money into the defense budget the cost went through the roof.

Costs go up because the money goes in.

Data shows that when the Pentagon reduces the budget the contractors cut their costs. In some cases they come in under cost estimates when the money dries up. Producing the same product. It makes no economic sense in any kind of commercial context. It makes perfect political sense.

Only one candidate is calling for the Pentagon to be made 15% more efficient. Only one candidate is calling for the Pentagon to be made accountable to the people who pay for its systems with their tax dollars. Only one candidate is calling for the elimination of weapons systems no one wants, and the demilitarization of space.

That candidate is Dennis Kucinich.

Coupled with making the Pentagon more efficient, candidate Kucinich is proposing a Department of Peace to coordinate our peaceful contracting with other nations, and to oversee the initiation of educational efforts targeted at reducing fear and violence at home. This department would be the answer to the perpetual question of "who" when everyone calls for more "education" to reduce domestic violence, to promote safe havens in communities, to give children something to do other than get involved in gangs.

Only one candidate has a clear vision for keeping us safer here and abroad with a Pentagon strengthened through accountability, and a Department of Peace to oversee the building of strong and mutually beneficial relationships with nation-states, with our neighbors, and in our families.

That candidate is Dennis Kucinich.

Electability

Let's be clear here. Every Democratic candidate is electable.  It's an overstatement, but not by much: A rock could probably beat Bush in 2004. Electability is not the issue. We are being tasked with choosing the best President we can get from the choices before us.

We should probably be grateful to George Bush for giving us this opportunity. Bush, the loser of the popular vote in 2000, got something like 50 million votes. Gore, the winner, got closer to 51 million. Eighty million eligible voters sat the election out.

The year 2000 was the neocon Waterloo. The Republican base of homophobes, gun nuts, uterus-enslavers, and corrupt corporatists is tapped. And since 2000 Bush has done his best to alienate every voter who crossed over to vote for him from the Libertarians and from the centrist Democrats.

All Bush has is fear.

All the Republicans have is a hope that their efforts to screw voters will mean they will be able to steal the vote in 2004 through: a) screwing the voters in Colorado through redistricting, b) screwing the voters in Texas through redistricting, c) screwing the voters in California through recall, d) screwing the voters in Florida by refusing to reinstate 50,000 voters wrongfully purged as felons, and e) screwing all the people of the nation by implementing Diebold's "black box" voting system with no paper trail (having eliminated the VNS watchdog and its exceptional record at predicting elections).

The Republicans wouldn't be working so hard to steal, screw, and deprive voters if they thought their message was going to carry them in 2004. They know they're screwed, and they're scared.

We own the issues, but we don't own the media (Podesta - get busy!) and we have to diligently guard against the destabilizing of the electoral process the Republicans have been engaging in with "black box" voting and redistricting and recall mayhem.

In my opinion, it's the overfunded extremist machine and its grip on the lapdog media that we must take care not to "misunderestimate." But I also think we have to be clear that right now it only runs on one thing - fear. There are three constituencies that are mobilized by the BFEE (that's Bush Family Evil Empire): Extremists, the fearful, and cookie-cutter patriots.

Bush got the highest number of votes he's ever going to get "on issues" in 2000. (Billion dollars a week on military adventurism while the energy grid fails at home - who thinks we need another tax cut?) Since he can't win on issues any longer, that's why we're seeing such a rush to fund-raise, a glut of electoral destabilizing moves from Republicans, and a blind and wholehearted embrace of "black box" voting technology forced on states by federal legislation.

Since Bush has literally driven Libertarians, Reduced Governmentists, Conservative Democrats, and most Independents away with his embrace of neo-conservative extremist positions on nearly everything since being appointed in 2000, and he has no respectable positions on anything that will be attractive to those constituencies or that he hasn't already debunked by his subsequent actions while in office, he'll win absolutely *zero* votes with his "compassionate conservative" hogwash this time around.

Bush has no issues, that's why he's running on extremism, fear, and cookie-cutter patriotism.

What that means, for every one of the candidates, is that all the positions belong to the Democrats. It should also mean that if the "fear" and "cookie-cutter patriotism" legs of the Bush campaign are neutralized, that Bush will be left with nothing to run on but extremism.

I'm not saying it will be a cakewalk (although given our advantage on issues it should be). But what should happen is this: All of the nearly 51 million voters who voted for Gore will reject Bush again this time (unless they're a) immobilized by fear, or b) turned into cookie-cutter patriots by the Evil Fairy Bushmother). Some of the 80 million who didn't vote should be motivated by restrictions on civil liberties or other heinous Bush policies to vote this time around. And Bush definitely won't get as many votes from the 50 million or so voters who voted for him last time, because he's alienated so many of those voters.

Issues will be the key, because Democrats own all the issues, except for, as I mentioned, fear, extremism, and cookie-cutter patriotism (but we *will* own or neutralize them by offering a candidate with a clear vision). Because Democrats own the issues, I believe we'll be in the best position to pick up all those votes (those of the 51 million Gore voters, the 80 million nonvoters, and the disenchanted from Bush's 50 million), by offering the candidate who is the best on the issues.

So, in my opinion, while the ability to competently elucidate coherent positions on the issues is and will be a means by which to distinguish the Democratic potential nominees from one another, to the extent that electability is an issue as it relates to Bush, the only thing that will matter is that the nominee is sufficiently *the opposite* of Bush's position on all the things that count.

Other than whether the candidate is "like Bush" or "not like Bush" on issues that resonate with voters (other than the three I mentioned: fear, extremism, and cookie-cutter patriotism) I still think the whole electability bugaboo is a red herring when used as a tool to distinguish one potential nominee from another.

We should nominate the candidate who is the best on the issues, and the election will take care of itself, the money will flow, and we'll evict the Poseur Prince from Al Gore's house.

The key for Bush will be to convince enough of the Gore voters, Independents, non-voters, and Democrats to a) vote for him because they're afraid, or b) give up their duty to think for themselves and buy into the cookie-cutter patriot hype machine.

I think it's a shame that this Fortunate Son and his sick cabal of neo-conservatives have been able to reduce the national dialog to these essentially ignorant and disrespectful issues (fear and fake patriotism), but as long as our candidate neutralizes one or both of these neo-conservative pathways to power, we win.

That's why whomever we nominate is going to be the next President of the United States.

So let's nominate the best then, shall we?

In my opinion, Dennis Kucinich is the candidate who is the best on the issues.

Dennis Kucinich for President of the United States of America.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota
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CarlBallard Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Electability
Good points in the whole thing, but I especially liked the electability section. I also believe that any of the candidates running can win and that the whole debate about who is electable and who isn't wastes our time. The important thing in your essay is the focus on GW.

Bush has no issues, that's why he's running on extremism, fear, and cookie-cutter patriotism.

This is probably what whover gets the nomination needs to remember. They have to focus on the issues. They'll need to alay the fears of the American pepole. They have to define their patriotism as equal or better than Bush's.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dennis rocked last night!
Edited on Fri Aug-15-03 09:18 PM by LibertyChick
And his healthcare plan is great. Single-payer plan,and if I hear Lieberman wimp out about healthcare again, I will scream.

Americans need health care. Now.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I loved the Kucinich and Health Care mailing from the campaign
KUCINICH & DOCTORS AGREE ON UNIVERSAL COVERAGE
From Associated Press today: "Washington -- Nearly 8,000 U.S. physicians are calling for government-financed national health insurance, which they say would cover every American while saving billions of dollars.

"Ten years after President Clinton's national health plan died in Congress, tangled in complexity and under fierce assault from the medical, insurance and pharmaceutical industries, the doctors argue that private sector solutions have failed. The doctors would put in place a single-payer system -- essentially an upgraded and expanded version of Medicare...

"Of the Democratic presidential candidates, only Rep. Dennis Kucinich is advocating a single-payer system."

Our campaign is giving voice not only to the aspirations of millions of Americans in need of health coverage, but many thousands of physicians and healthcare practitioners who know they can't adequately serve the public until national health insurance is implemented.
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/issue_universalhealth.htm

KUCINICH vs. GEPHARDT, KERRY & DEAN -- Which Way for Democrats?
Campaign supporters have asked us for more analysis on Kucinich in comparison with other Democrats, and on our campaign's impact on the party. To see this piece: http://www.kucinich.us/whichway.htm

DENNIS AS SEABISCUIT
Steve Cobble, Kucinich adviser and veteran campaign strategist, offers the following analysis:

Columnist Mark Shields made a crucial point in a recent essay when he wrote that "Democrats nominate dark horses, not front-runners...Only twice in the last 44 years has the Democratic nominee for President emerged in the year before the election as the clear front-runner in the Gallup Poll." For example: McGovern ended 1971 at 5%; Carter did not register in any of the four 1975 polls. Clinton was polling at only 6% as late as October of 1991.

This history is important to our campaign because it proves that national polling at this stage is irrelevant. Here is what's relevant:
Are we raising sufficient money and building field organizations in early states? Do we have a base in the party and issues on which we
stand out to primary voters? Are we beginning to move up the ladder in early states?

The Kucinich Campaign can answer yes on all counts. We ended the second quarter with a million dollars in the bank, thanks to our strong MoveOn primary vote -- and we've added field staff in many states. In two weeks, our MeetUp membership went from 1,200 to 8,000 and we'll soon move past John Kerry into second place. Dennis is drawing the largest crowds around the country due to unique positions on universal health insurance, corporate globalization, the Iraq war, Pentagon cuts,"Patriot Act," etc. We've moved up in Iowa -- with Willie Nelson's concerts to begin.

Kucinich is the dark horse candidate of 2003. We've exceeded expectations on every front from the beginning. Like Seabiscuit, we don't have to lead from pole to pole -- just be in front at the end.


BUY CAMPAIGN ITEMS ONLINE

You've asked us for an online store - we're happy to tell you that it's arrived! Now you can buy buttons, t-shirts, bumper stickers and more for yourself and for your friends. Profits go to the campaign. http://www.officialkucinichstore.us

PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO OTHERS.
For more info - http://www.kucinich.us
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. I disagree
Dan--I read your essay, but I am going to be blunt. Running against the Pentagon in 2004 is not going to convince the American public to dump Bush from office.

And beating Bush is going to be much more tougher than you think. He will forgo federal matching funds and thus will be able to raise exhoribitant sums of money. He will have a cozy media behind him.

DK simply can't win the general election. Running on an anti-military platform is not going to carry the day in the current political era. It just isn't.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thank you for being blunt. I disagree with your assessment
First, I definitely disagree that requiring accountability from the Pentagon is running "against" it. As the NOW presentation more than adequately points out, the Pentagon is not doing the job - hence we're all less safe no matter how much money we pour into it. Dennis Kucinich's position calls for the Pentagon to be made more accountable, while reining it in by eliminating unwanted weapons systems and demilitarizing space. I think there's enough of an issue to take to the people on safety there to win on the concept of an "accountable" Pentagon keeping us safe. I think everyone can be "for" a Pentagon that works, and is accountable to the taxpayers who fund it. I think DK is for that as well.

Second, I pointed out just what you said, that what we all must do is counter the overfunded media machine and its message of fear. Bush isn't tough just because he's well-funded and cozy with the media. The key is understanding what he's running on, or what he's trying to get "from" the media, and then counter it effectively. For that, one thing I think we need to consider is Podesta's liberal think tank/liberal media machine in order to start having more clout when it comes to generating stories to drop into the media machine. Bush's money will be unlimited, but his issues will not be. No matter how much money he raises, or how cozy he is with the media, he's still running on extremism, fear, and cookie-cutter patriotism. The winning nominee will counter that by staying on message, attaching him or herself to the issues, and disassociating Bush from being the remedy to fear, or the same as patriotism.

Third, your conclusion isn't supported by the facts. Kucinich isn't running on an anti-military platform. He's running on peace being safer than war. There's a difference, and I think people understand being made safe, living in a world of inter-relationships (that's the same thing Clinton says all the time), and the importance of demanding accountability from the Pentagon.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well
I will respond between senteces:


First, I definitely disagree that requiring accountability from the Pentagon is running "against" it.

But that's not how most people see it.

As the NOW presentation more than adequately points out, the Pentagon is not doing the job - hence we're all less safe no matter how much money we pour into it. Dennis Kucinich's position calls for the Pentagon to be made more accountable, while reining it in by eliminating unwanted weapons systems and demilitarizing space. I think there's enough of an issue to take to the people on safety there to win on the concept of an "accountable" Pentagon keeping us safe. I think everyone can be "for" a Pentagon that works, and is accountable to the taxpayers who fund it. I think DK is for that as well.

Again that sounds idealistica and reasonable on the face of it, but that's not how the electorate will see it. The Democrats run double digit deficits on the issues of the military, defense, and national seucirty. Running on a platform like this will reinforce the voters' (false) perceptions about Democrats.


Second, I pointed out just what you said, that what we all must do is counter the overfunded media machine and its message of fear.

But see the media would spin DK's platform as being "weak" on terrorism and national security. Even if it isn't that is how the voters are going to see it. They will see the idea of the "Department of Peace" as being some kind of "hippie" organization not grounded in reality. They would say that DK would not stick up for US Interests overseas. They would take it out of context.

Bush isn't tough just because he's well-funded and cozy with the media. The key is understanding what he's running on, or what he's trying to get "from" the media, and then counter it effectively. For that, one thing I think we need to consider is Podesta's liberal think tank/liberal media machine in order to start having more clout when it comes to generating stories to drop into the media machine.

That American Majority Institute is so desperately needed. I am so glad that the left is finally taking the steps that the right took decades ago. I listened to Podesta speak at a conference a few weeks ago and he made such good sense.

One thing that he stated that suprised me was that when the Heritage Foundation or any other right group starts a project they immediately hire public relations/communications/media advisors to work on selling the project to the public. Democrats and liberals sorely need that.

We also need our own equivalent of Fox News and talk radio. Without a media presence we will always be at a disadvantage. I


Bush's money will be unlimited, but his issues will not be. No matter how much money he raises, or how cozy he is with the media, he's still running on extremism, fear, and cookie-cutter patriotism. The winning nominee will counter that by staying on message, attaching him or herself to the issues, and disassociating Bush from being the remedy to fear, or the same as patriotism.

You still don't understand on some level. With the media favoring Bush DK's ideas will be spun in the most negative light possible. And his platform will be torn apart.

Third, your conclusion isn't supported by the facts. Kucinich isn't running on an anti-military platform. He's running on peace being safer than war.

But that's how the voters, with the help of the media, will see it.

There's a difference, and I think people understand being made safe, living in a world of inter-relationships (that's the same thing Clinton says all the time), and the importance of demanding accountability from the Pentagon.

Again, Dan, it simply won't be seen in that light. And that's the problem.

DK is a decent man, but he would probably be better off using the donor list he has gotten from this race to run for either Senator or Govenror in 2006 in Ohio. Lord knows the Ohio Democratic Party needs his help.


Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I disagree with your assessment of the electorate
But I agree with you on the need for the American Majority Institute and the need for our own FOX News and talk radio.

I obviously come across different people than you do, or talk with them in a different way, because every single person I've talked to agrees with me on the concept of making the Pentagon stronger by making it accountable to the taxpayers. Especially when I point out to them the inherent unfairness of demanding "accountability" from education while underfunding it. I'm sometimes surprised how open people are to that comparison, but I shouldn't be given that Democrats usually actually believe in public education.

Listen, I understand you'd like to be dour on Kucinich. My experience doesn't support your conclusions, and nearly everyone I talk to who is not already committed to another nominee is open to the ideas I share with them.

Paul Wellstone shouldn't have ever been elected either, but he was. Dennis Kucinich is a lot closer to the best of Paul Wellstone than any other candidate.

The best way to break with Bush is to break with Bush big. All the way. Elect the anti-Bush.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'll say this
Dan--had 9/11 not happened you would have a point. But it did and that is still in everyone's minds. DK's agenda vis a vis the Pentagon simply isn't going to work.

I wish Americans would support a Department of Peace, but they won't. And with the media here to distort it to death it is DOA.
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AnAmerican Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thankfully, jiacinto, most folks are not as jaded as you.
n/t
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I am not jaded
I am being realistic.
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AnAmerican Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I guess it is a matter of definition
What you call "realistic" I call "jaded". IMHO the rightwing and allied media have beaten you.

When you say that a candidate like DK, who has so much to offer the country, has no chance, that is jaded, defeatist, and cynical.

If we all felt that way the shrub would be assured of another 4 years, followed by 8 of Jeb, followed by 8 of (put name here).

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with your thinking.

I am thankful that hope and dreams of a better world are very much alive in a good percentage of Americans.

My prediction, the American public WILL vote in numbers that reverse the trend of the past several elections.

They WILL elect the Democratic nominee, and yes, given the chance, they would elect DK. He is a breath of fresh air in our fucked up world. He alone has put forth a platform that is geared towards improving the lives of everyone. He alone is standing against the "same old, same old' that is a direct cause of the shrinking % of eligible voters actually voting.

No amount of negativity from you or anyone will change my mind, nor change the minds of most DK supporters, we know the man, and we have experienced the hope and promise his candidacy embodies.

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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I don't see DK as being able to beat Bush
For the reasons I told Dan earlier I don't see him winning.
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ylandsman Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. On the contrary
Dennis is the one candidate who can best beat Bush. This is for two reasons:-

1) He provides the absolutely greatest contrast to Bush on the overall paradigm of his administration; and

2) Because Dennis is not afraid to ask the really difficult questions that Bush doesn't want even being thought about

Take courage America -- United We Stand
Elect Dennis Kucinich as President of the USA
http://kucinich.us
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-03 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. Damn right
He's not afraid to stand up against stem cell research. No compromise. He voted against it.
A person who could possibly have entertained the thought that a fertilized should be prioritized over the potential research for devastating diseases that millions of people in this country suffer from can do absolutely nothing to earn my vote. The disconnect in that kind of religious zealotry doesn't magically disappear.
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FluxRostrum Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
37. ANYBODY BUT BUSH! ... or kucinich
Only war mongering, elitist, bible thumpers and racists will be voting for Bush.

My Grandmother could beat Bush... hell Grey Davis could beat Bush! (probably not)

The electability Lie is just another fear tactic cleverly orchestrated by a corporate media that realizes they will gain little from a Kucinich White House.

When you've got so little bad to say about a candidate that "he's not electable" is one of the top answers for why you don't support him; maybe you should question where your getting your information from and what they have to gain by making him seem unelectable.

The Most Electable Dennis Kucinich
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Respectfully
9/11 is not "still in everyone's minds." It's not in mine, and I'm someone.

I do have an observation or two about 9/11. My response, at least the "rant," is not directed at you personally, jiacinto, because I've heard the same thing from many other people.

I cannot express clearly enough how absolutely sick and disgusted I am with hearing 9/11 used as an excuse for whatever a person needs an excuse for every time I turn around. Any day now, I expect someone to cry out piteously, "remember 9-11," when trying to convince me to buy their brand of toilet paper or watch their version of reality tv.

The bloated pentagon budget did not stop the act/s of terror, and it has not brought the perpetrators to justice. Pointing to 9-11 as a reason not to hold the pentagon accountable for it's spending just doesn't fly.

9-11 has become a vehicle for promoting the bush agenda. He used his "war on terror" to invade iraq, and is spreading the "love" even as we talk here. With all of the $$$spent, lives lost, and sacrifices made by our troops, he has not brought the perpetrators to justice, and we are more hated, and therefore less safe, than we were when he got started.

Now we have "we can't cut the pentagon budget because of 9-11," and "we can't have a DOP because of 9-11." Not so. Let's stop using 9-11 as the whipping boy for every issue.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It's reality, though
nt
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AnAmerican Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. It is "your opinion"......
which may or may not have any bearing on "reality".
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. I disagree with you specifically on this issue-
Dan-First, I definitely disagree that requiring accountability from the Pentagon is running "against" it.

Jiac-But that's not how most people see it.

I disagree with you about this statement. There are huge numbers of people who see the need for Pentagon accountability.

Dan-As the NOW presentation more than adequately points out, the Pentagon is not doing the job - hence we're all less safe no matter how much money we pour into it. Dennis Kucinich's position calls for the Pentagon to be made more accountable, while reining it in by eliminating unwanted weapons systems and demilitarizing space. I think there's enough of an issue to take to the people on safety there to win on the concept of an "accountable" Pentagon keeping us safe. I think everyone can be "for" a Pentagon that works, and is accountable to the taxpayers who fund it. I think DK is for that as well.

Jiac-Again that sounds idealistica and reasonable on the face of it, but that's not how the electorate will see it. The Democrats run double digit deficits on the issues of the military, defense, and national seucirty. Running on a platform like this will reinforce the voters' (false) perceptions about Democrats.

Again, I disagree. Kucinich is not talking about dismantling the military or defense programs. What Kucinich is talking about is something military members havebeen calling for for decades. Have you ever been in the service? I have and been a child of, Grandchild of, and spouse to military members. I know what they go through. There is a Trillion dollars completely missing from Pentagon books as I type this. Nobody knows where it went, but the soldiers know where it DIDN'T go! This issue is one I'd like to see Wes Clark stand with Kucinich on. He knows what I'm talking about and the American public damned well should too. I'm sure it's obvious this issue is one I most strongly support Kucinich on, and I can assure you I'm far from alone in it. I'm absolutely livid that the Pentagon can literally lose a Trillion dollars in funding while our troops are consistantly underfunded for training, equipment and mission necessities. It happens constantly. The reason people are going to fight this particular issue is simply because they don't KNOW what I know. They will, and soon.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Clark could make the argument; DK couldn't
Clark, because of a his military credentials, could make the case. But even then I am not sure his words would be readily accepted.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Oh but they would,
Because as soon as they see they have someone speaking for them, the troops will come out with it openly. You don't understand how pissed these men and women are about this stuff.

It has to be handled that way, though. They have to go to the installations and get the words from the horses mouths to support their contentions.
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ylandsman Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. DK Can make this point
because he has been part of the Congressional oversight commitee, and has had direct access to this data.

Remember DK is a very respected congressman
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. Isn't that funny?
Just a bit ago, I informed someone who hadn't known that Kucinich was on the Ways and Means Comittee, and it surprised him. Made him rethink at least how much knowledge he(Kucinich) has on DoD issues. Is that perfect? Not at all, but it's something he won't forget.

Yeah, dammit I fight for Dennis as hard as he fights for me. That's harder than anyone I've voted in, anyone else want to argue that one?
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Statement of Kucinich
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=203

Statement of The Honorable Dennis J. Kucinich, a Representative in Congress from the State of Ohio

Testimony Before the Subcommittee on Trade
of the House Committee on Ways and Means


March 26, 2003

America needs a healthy domestic steel industry and we must protect the steelworkers who built up this great nation.

But between 1997 and 2002, America’s steel industry and its workers were under attack by foreign companies illegally dumping steel into the American economy, sending 35 steel companies into bankruptcy and costing 54,000 industry employees their jobs.

As a result, I am proud of the efforts of the Steel Caucus, which continually advocated for the Administration to initiate a Section 201 steel investigation into these imports.

We also succeeded in pushing the International Trade Commission to recognize the devastating effect of steel imports through a finding of injury. We even gathered with 25,000 steelworkers on the ellipse to make sure the President imposed an effective tariff to help stem the tide of imports.

One year later, this remedy is working and it must be continued. In my hometown of Cleveland, it helped us find a new owner to keep our steel mills running. Industry-wide, since the Section 201 relief was implemented, domestic steel is beginning to see signs of a recovery: domestic producers have experienced incremental improvements in revenues, operating income, and capacity utilization.

Additionally, the industry has made significant progress toward restructuring and consolidation. The International Steel Group (ISG), which came into existence following its purchase of LTV, has agreed to acquire the assets of Bethlehem Steel. US Steel announced plans to purchase National Steel. Section 201 relief, if allowed to run its course, will result in a more competitive domestic industry.

The tariffs have also caused a modest price recovery in the industry. Prices for hot rolled

steel rose from historic lows of only $210 per ton in December 2001 to around $300 per ton today. But even so, prices for all major flat rolled products are still below 20-year historical averages, and steel imports still remain approximately 25 percent of the market.

The tariffs were a good start, and they must be allowed to continue. The United States has finally made clear that it is no longer willing to serve as the World’s Steel Dumping Ground. The United States has also made clear that the national security of our country requires a strong and viable domestic steel supplier base. Only the continuation of the 201 tariffs will mitigate the harm of unfairly traded imports and assist the industry in a critical recovery. Keep the steel tariffs working!

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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Exellent analysis
Well said.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. indeed
kick
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. kick
again
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. again
nt
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. Terrific Post Dan!
Hope you don't mind, I copied it and stuck it in my Bio, Issues, Vision thread.

Peace!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. This is a powerful post,
dpbrown. I agree, and I thank you for expressing it so clearly.

I've been saying all along that it's the issues that count; all 9+ are electable when you look at the issues. And Kucinich has the clearest, best position on the issues, IMO.

We can take bush down. Or we can take ourselves out of the running. I'd prefer to take bush down. Other than inept campaigning, the real obstacles to victory in 2004 are:

We own the issues, but we don't own the media (Podesta - get busy!) and we have to diligently guard against the destabilizing of the electoral process the Republicans have been engaging in with "black box" voting and redistricting and recall mayhem.

I don't think Bush has a chance in a clean election. It's our job to get to work making sure that a clean election happens, and that our candidates are heard.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. Zogby on Bush's electability has him tied with "unnamed Dem"
__Bush Re-Elect Drops to 42%-47% - Tied with Unnamed Dem

"A Zogby poll released today shows that when asked if George Bush deserves re-election, only 46% of Americans said yes and a narrow majority, 47%, said it is time for someone new. The poll, with a margin of error of +/- 3%, on a generic 2004 ballot between Bush and a Democratic candidate, Bush received 47% of support, and a Democratic candidate received 44%, putting the Bush and a Democratic candidate in a statistical dead heat still a year before the Democratic candidate is selected. The second poll, released yesterday by Fox News/Opinion Dynamics and published in National Journal's Hotline showed should the 2004 election be held today, those planning to reelect Bush had dropped to 42%."

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=5528

This is part of the proof that any Democrat will beat Bush in 2004. Let's make sure it's the best Democrat.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

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ylandsman Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thank You
Edited on Tue Aug-19-03 03:32 AM by ylandsman
Your essay was clear and lucid. Bravo on choosing the candidate who really stands the best chance of any of them in beating the Bushkies. You should post this on the Kucinich4President yahoo group. If you like I could do it for you.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. Not only this, but he's the only one calling for "exit" from Iraq now
7/28/2003

Kucinich Calls for U.N. to Replace U.S. In Iraq

In statements from his Congressional office and on the campaign trail, Kucinich continued today to advocate that U.N. peacekeeping forces replace U.S. troops in Iraq. His stance is in stark contrast to other Democratic candidates; Howard Dean, for example, supports sending additional U.S. troops to Iraq (Meet the Press, 6/22).

Kucinich said today: "This weekend, with the deaths of 5 US troops, we were once again reminded of the dangers facing US troops in what has become a quagmire. To date 243 U.S. troops have died in Iraq. It is time that the United States begins the process of withdrawing our troops, and allow a UN peacekeeping force to take over the reconstruction of Iraq.

"In their rush to war, the Administration failed to adequately prepare for the post-invasion period. Negotiations for an exit must begin now. An exit agreement with the United Nations must involve the US letting go of the contracting process.

"The UN must also take over management, accounting and distribution to the Iraqi people of Iraq's oil profits. Additionally, a transition from UN control to self- determined governing structure by and for the Iraqi people must be planned. Finally, the Administration, which unwisely ordered the bombing, must fund the reconstruction."

http://www.kucinich.us
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Gingersnap Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. great essay dp
:kick:
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-03 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. I don't think...
you can blow off electablity so easily. And I don't think just 'any' Democrat can beat Bush. I also think that this kind of thinking could be dangerous. I know that I was completely shocked that Bush even came close in the first place. I thought it WAS going to be a cakewalk because the guy is so obviously an incompetent, ignorant, slimy jerk.

But he has already done it once, I would not be quite so complacent about his getting beat by Gumby in 2004. I would also be careful when you think it is going to be all about the issues. I have a friend who votes religiously Republican because her husband has told her that's the best way to go (I know, makes my skin crawl). She wouldn't know a current event if she stepped in it.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. We don't have to blow it off.
While we recognize the "electable" propaganda for the red herring it is, we already know that Dennis is electable. He has repeatedly been elected. That's as electable as it gets.

If any Democrat has a history of attracting swing voters and "Reagan Democrats" in winning elections against better-funded Republican opponents, it is Dennis Kucinich. He has repeatedly defeated entrenched incumbents. He beat a Republican incumbent for mayor in 1977, for state senator in 1994 (overcoming the national right-wing tide) and for Congress in 1996.

http://kucinich.us/electable.htm
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. There is more to this article then Nico Pitneys article...N/T
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. good work guys
confronting the popular excuses in a reasonable and agreeable manner. Nothing but proof Kucinich has excellent folks working to get a real candidate in the oval office. Kucinich is the one.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. your welcome
Today I think is the first day I ever saw you but you said some nice things earlier. I remember saying often I wanted to repeal Taft-Hartley now thats a pretty obscure issue but Dennis K came out in favor of repealing it, I was like whoa man thats awesome.
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. Great Post!

Dennis Kucinich and the Sushi Bandit!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-05-03 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Great pic!
I was there in Santa Ana, but it's been long enough that I don't really remember what the people around me looked like; eyes only for Dennis that day.
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FluxRostrum Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-03 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
35. You missed a couple screws :-)
Screwing the people of OHIO with redistricting....
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030822/NEWS09/108220120

AND
Screwing the people of OHIO with vote rigging...
http://www.cleveland.com/election/index.ssf?/base/news/106207171078040.xml

these are very targeted screws no doubt.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-03 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. We don't have to look far these days, do we?
Republican screws in Florida, Texas, California, Ohio, and, if Diebold and the repubs have their way, every voting booth near you.

The only way they can win.

The more people learn about Dennis, the more they support him. The major goal is to get the word out. September is a big month for fundraising. Let's get those house parties on the 21st rocking!
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-06-03 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
36. Dennis is awesome.
We are so lucky to have the opportunity to support such a great candidate.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-07-03 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
39. Can He Beat Bush?

http://www.kucinich.us/electable.htm

Is Kucinich Electable? Can He Beat Bush?


If any Democrat has a history of attracting swing voters and "Reagan Democrats" in winning elections against better-funded Republican opponents, it is Dennis Kucinich. He has repeatedly defeated entrenched incumbents. He beat a Republican incumbent for mayor in 1977, for state senator in 1994 (overcoming the national right-wing tide) and for
Congress in 1996.

His Congressional district includes the suburb of Parma, Ohio, described as "one of the original homes of the Reagan Democrats." An Ohio daily calls it a "conservative Democratic district," which he carried by 74% in 2002. Being a success there may be a better predictor of national success than holding statewide office in a liberal stronghold like Vermont or Massachusetts.

Kucinich is a winner because he builds Wellstone-like grassroots campaigns against bigger-spending opponents. He is a winner because of his blue collar roots and populism, reflected in his battles for heartland voters against unfair, corporate-friendly trade deals.

He is an unabashed progressive who wins because swing voters who don't agree with him on every issue still see him as a fighter for their interests, as someone who will put the interests of workers and middle-class consumers ahead of big-money interests. No Democrat is better positioned in 2004 to attract 'Reagan Democrats' and swing voters with a frontal attack on how Bush policies hurt them and favor the rich.

Republicans use "wedge" issues to pry away traditionally-Democratic white working class voters -- a tactic that has not succeeded against Kucinich. In '96, for example, Republicans used his support of gay rights as a wedge, and he stood firm and triumphed.

On the other side of the spectrum, no other candidate can attract disaffected voters, 3rd party voters and Ralph Nader supporters to the Democratic column like Kucinich. Across the country, Nader 2000 voters and Green Party sympathizers are joining his campaign, as are other 3rd party supporters.

It's been a long while since progressives and the Democratic base have been so motivated, and so angry -- over manipulation and deceit that began in the 2000 election and continued through the Iraq war (now finally catching up with the Bush team). No candidate can better tap into and mobilize the anger of the Democratic base than Kucinich, who has never wavered in his opposition, who has courageously led the way in exposing war manipulation, and who speaks with passion to the big issues that animate Democratic and progressive activists.

Kucinich has been a winner in a swing district in the swing state of Ohio. And Ohio has 20 electoral votes. It is the state that is key to national victory; only two candidates in the 20th century won the presidency without carrying Ohio.

Al Gore lost Ohio in 2000 despite the Herculean efforts of Kucinich, as vividly described by journalist James Ridgeway in an article written days before the election: "Kucinich is a shoo-in, but hauling Gore along will be a daunting task. Shuttling back and forth from Washington, Kucinich has put together an old-fashioned canvassing operation throughout Cleveland and its suburbs that is one of the largest such efforts in the nation. By election day, 400 to 500 people will be on the streets...

"Day after day, members of the laborers, electricians, plumbers, and steelworkers unions crowd into Kucinich's tiny office on Lorain Avenue, piling signs into the backs of cars and pickups before hitting the neighborhoods. The general approach is for volunteers to use Kucinich's name to get a foot in the door, then ask for support for a Democratic judge before uttering the vice president's name."

Kucinich's best efforts couldn't win Ohio for Gore in 2000, but Kucinich can win Ohio himself if he is the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate. And in presidential politics, as Bush-strategist Karl Rove knows well: As Ohio goes, so goes the nation.

http://www.kucinich.us/electable.htm
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
43. That Was Awesome
Funny how the only consistantly positive (or at least civil) campaign threads are about DK?
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Because Kucinich's supporters love people as much as he does.
That's the truth of it, we love people, humanity, and the best of human beings. We're not supporting Kucinich because the press is shoving him in our faces, or telling us he's "electable", and we're not supporting him for selfish greedy reasons.

People who support Kucinich want a better life for everyone, including those who decide to spit in our faces.

I get angry sometimes, and I try to just not post when that happens. I figure if someone comes into the thread slamming the hell out of Kucinich, it's the same as playground bullies. They don't have any confidence in their own candidate or choices so they have to bash on others to feel better about it. Some people I think really feel guilty for not supporting Kucinich, but I doubt any of them would ever admit it. Ever do something you knew was a bad idea and then had someone seem to talk about it constantly? Not a deliberate thing, but it seems like they are always bringing up the one thing that you feel lousy about. Makes people angry and not very pleasant to deal with after a while.

Anyway, welcome aboard!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. :) you bet
Still wearing that button for pride :). Go Kucinich :)
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ErasureAcer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
47. Just donated $57 more to the campaign.
Kucinich is what this country needs.

wake up America!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. great thats just great
I am so tired of being told to wait, "unelectable" come on guys. We need a fighter and Kucinich is one and a man of the people Kucinich again. I just wish more people listened instead of turning their heads away. I when I get down but I never doubt the fight for Kucinich is the right one but I feel like I am on a bridge holding it although the situation is near impossible. I am not down at the moment but I really do get down sometimes. Sorry for that rant but I really think Kucinich makes some of the best points in the race. We dont know if hes electable or not, I just think about how great this nation could be if we promoted peace. It really is unfortuate that we are so often pushed to the side. Shit like that makes me consider immigrating. Ive said that I am either a person ahead of my time or after my time and also that I am either a fool or ever the wise. ok I will stop ranting.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. So did I!
I couldn't resist the birthday boy.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-03 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Harrumph! After watching all this fuss about the bat,
I think I'm doubling my birthday contribution to Dennis! Spite can be a good thing!:evilgrin:
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