N.H. voters say Kerry's appeal is his ability to get elected

[Nicholas_J]

August 10, 2003
Associated Press
by Anne Saunders

New Hampshire -

Sen. John Kerry's strength as a Democratic primary candidate is that he is electable, some voters said as Kerry campaigned in the state Saturday.

Kerry was mobilizing his presidential campaign forces with his largest canvassing effort in the state to date.

More than 300 supporters, including many from his native Massachusetts, went door- to-door in Manchester, Concord, Derry, Dover and Nashua. Kerry urged them on at a morning appearance at his Manchester headquarters.

"I want you to take common sense out there to the streets today; I want you to take fundamental fairness," the Democratic presidential hopeful said of his message to voters.

One supporter who attended a house party for Kerry in Hopkinton said he would rather vote for former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, but felt Kerry was more likely to get elected. He didn't want to see a replay of the 2000 presidential election when Ralph Nader took votes from Democratic candidate Al Gore, allowing George Bush to take the White House, he said.

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/clips/news_2003_0810b.html

So who do the public think is MORE electable?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Well, we know what "one supporter

who attended a house party for Kerry in Hopkinton" thinks.


Other than that, I think the primary results will be an excellent indicator of who the public thinks is electable.

[deutsey]

2. "So who do the public think is MORE electable?"

That's what this whole process is about, and it's far too early to say with any certainty at this time whom the public will find more electable.

[Upfront]

4. Let The People Decide

Don't worry, Dean will blow Kerry and all the rest out of the water. On to the whitehouse.

[Nicholas_J]

6. Right

THis is about the 15h article I have read from New Hampshire with Dean supprters stating they are switching to Kerry because he is "MORE ELECTABLE"

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. Chicago Teamsters said the same thing:

..."We think Kerry has the better chance to win.''

5th paragraph.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/04kerry.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. I guess that settles it, then.

I will now write a letter to Governor Dean requesting that he humbly bow out.

[Nicholas_J]

7. Not necessary

But inevitable.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. not at all

Dean just has to explain why HE has the better chance to win.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Across the spectrum support is a pretty good indicator.

I understand that Labor has a long-standing relationship with Kerry and, more particularly, Geppy. No surprise. I would be shocked if Geppy didn't "get" the Labor vote, with some trickling down to Kerry.

An indicator though? I think not. And if Dean happens to get the nomination do you think they're going to support Boooosh like they did in 2000? Not f'n likely.

[Nicholas_J]

10. Not gonna happen

New Hampshire voters often proclaim to object to mud slinging, and Lieberman took advantage of this by trying to present his own nicer, more electable image. "The squabble between Howard Dean and John Kerry may make interesting political theater, but it doesn't send the right message to the voters about our party," said Lieberman.

Tax cut friendly voters in New Hampshire are likely to closely watch the exchanges over tax cuts in upcoming debates. Dean asked Senator Graham why he had decided to vote for an amendment last week that would have "zeroed out" the Bush tax cuts, while Kerry (of course), Edwards and Lieberman had instead voted for $350 billion in tax cuts.

Dean and Kerry arguably emerge as winners on one level because they managed to command a good deal of the attention. Ultimately Dean will lose this battle, he’s not a viable nominee anywhere except in his own mind. Lieberman has managed to be strong yet non controversial and may be contemplating getting in on the Kerry/Dean feud, especially in light of all the media coverage the sniping candidates produced this morning.

http://www.evote.com/index.asp?Page=/features_section/2003-05/05052003election2004.asp

The people in NEW HAMPSHIRE know both of the candidates well...

And they prefer Kerry. The most characteristic thing about New Hampshire voters is that they dislike negative campaigning. ANd Kerry is still refusing to engage in negative campaigning, but the citizens of New Hampshire are being reminded how Dean used negative attack against DEMOCRATS to get to the level he is at.

One of the few places where you actually can hear Dean supporters saying they would VOTE for Dean but Are selecting Kerry because he is more electable.

Dean has no case to make, and as the New Hampshire public sees Dean bumplbing around, and saying he was wrong about social security, and apologizing to other candidates, and SOON to make another change in his policy statements for which I will eventually be able to knock Dean supporters with, Kerry will simply level the playing field.

Dean is going to have to change his stance on REPEALING the Bush tax cuts soon, because tax cuts are popular iin New Hampshire. REpealing the cuts and slamming middle class workers, particularly union workers is NOT going to do Dean a bit of good, and Kerry all the good in the world for stating he will only get rid of the portions that favor the wealthy.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Insider Notes from your "source:"

Insider's Notes: John Kerry is weighing his options. He's got the money (courtesy of his wife, the ketchup queen) and he's got the gravitas (an anti-war Vietnam vet that won't look silly in a tank). But does he have the personality it takes to win votes? Insiders say no, but that hasn't stopped many a candidate so far.

Insider's Notes: Dean is mounting a presidential run in 2004 as the outsider liberal candidate. A longshot doesn't even begin to describe his chances, but he's not deterred. Dean is a doctor in his private sector life, but so far, much of his national air time has focused on his criticism of Bush's foreign policy.

Insider's Notes: When Al Gore said he wasn't running for president, Lieberman was best positioned to emerge as the new frontrunner. So far, polls show him and Senator John Kerry battling for the lead in the Democratic primary field.


Old wisdom. Trite.

[Nicholas_J]

22. Sorry...

Dena has been running now for TWO years. Much longer than the other candidates.

Sorry, I have seen enough of these, I would vote for Dean, bt have decided to go for Kerry articles to beleive any Dean supporter crap.

Dena is coasting on popular talk, but when it comes down to it, New Hampshire natives know that popular dont pay for the farm.

They will settle down to practicality.

[Larkspur]

17. Well, Labor backed Gore and the Dems in 2000

and lost, so why does backing Kerry, the heir to Gore's front runner status, make sense?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Gore didn't "lose"

and I'm just noting how some people conclude that they like to pick the percieved "winner".

[acerbic]

11. Triumphalism turns me off...

Declaring victory "support me because I will win!" more than telling why one deserves to win doesn't get my respect at all. It's what Dumbya does...

[Nicholas_J]

12. Well

When I tell ya why Dean does not deserve to win, I get slammed.

[acerbic]

13. If you really told why Dean does not deserve to win instead of making

stuff up claiming why Dean does not deserve to win, you'd get slammed a lot less.

[Nicholas_J]

21. You mean this is not true:

Dean promises health coverage for all by 2002
October 4, 2000

By FREDERICK BEVER Vermont Press Bureau

BURLINGTON - Gov. Howard Dean on Tuesday unveiled an ambitious goal for Vermont's health care system - enactment by 2002 of a plan that would lead to health insurance coverage for every state resident.

Appearing at a press conference at the Burlington Community Health Center, Dean said he would build on proposals expected from a $1.3 million, yearlong study of Vermont's health care system aimed at finding ways to get insurance to Vermonters who currently lack it.

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/State/Story/13593.html

Lets look at how Howard KEEPS HIS PROMISES:

Medicaid cuts will affect thousands of Vermonters
January 23, 2002

By DAVID MACE

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Tens of thousands of Vermonters would see their state health care benefits rolled back or cut off completely under Gov. Howard Dean’s proposed budget, which seeks to wring $16.5 million in savings from Medicaid.

In an effort to curb costs in a rapidly expanding part of the social services budget, Dean is proposing to require many people who got coverage under his expansions of Medicaid programs to pay for a greater share of their health care.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41169.html



OR:

Progressives call for higher taxes for rich
January 25, 2002

By JACK HOFFMAN

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Vermont Progressives renewed their call Thursday for higher taxes on the wealthy in order to avoid some of the budget cuts that Gov. Howard Dean outlined earlier this week.

The Progressives, with support of a couple dozen Democrats and one Republican, proposed two new income tax surcharges. Taxes would go up 12.5 percent on taxable income between $43,000 and $158,000. On taxable income above $158,000, taxes would be increased 25 percent.

Taxable income is the amount left after personal exemptions and deductions have been subtracted from wages, business earnings and other types of income...

Dean reiterated his opposition to raising the income tax shortly after the Progressives unveiled their tax plan. Dean contends Vermont’s marginal income tax rate — that is, the top rate paid by those in the highest income brackets — already is too high.


http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41293.html

Howard loves protecting those poor overburdened rich people, does'nt he?

Sorry, almost EVERYTHING I post comes straght from Howaerds own mouth, or straight from his own decisions as governor,....How About:


Governor’s Budget Cuts Medicaid Programs

Governor Howard Dean, in his eleventh and last budget address, cut several Medicaid programs including prescription drugs, dental care and vision services. Dean told lawmakers times a tough and sacrifices had to be made.

The Dean budget for FY 2003 is $891 million in state spending, one percent more than the state expects to spend this fiscal year but nearly 3% less than the budget passed last year ($916 million). Revenues this year are expected to be $50 million below budget. Dean wants to use the "Rainy Day" fund to cover some of the $50 million shortfall but does not want to tap that fund for FY 2003. Next year’s budget is based on revenue estimates of $893 million.

If passed as presented, Dean’s budget would:

Eliminate the VScript Expanded Program.

Reduce the Vermont Health Access Plan pharmacy benefit.

Increase the co-pay up to $750/year for medicines under both the VScript and VHAP pharmacy programs. (Those eligible now pay only a few dollars for each filled prescription).

Eliminate the Medicaid dentures, chiropractic and podiatry programs.

Reduce the adult dental programs (cover pain and suffering only, not preventative care).

Add a 50% co-pay to adult vision programs.

Add a $250 co-pay per admission to VHAP inpatient hospital benefit.

Reduce the hospital outpatient payment by 10%.

Establish a hospital outpatient co-pay of $25.

These cuts would save about $27 million, $11 million in state money. Few advocates for the elderly are happy with the budget and have vowed to restore the money lost to these programs. A coalition of over a dozen advocacy groups held a rally and press conference at the Capitol building to denounce the budget cuts.

http://vnavt.com/vahhavoicewinter2002.htm


O.K., now you prove that Dean didnt do this, or that it was WONDERFUL of him to protect the rich while threatening social prgrams.

O.K.

Your Turn

[acerbic]

25. I mean that you may OCCASIONALLY slip and tell the truth about

...something related to Dean, but then there are all the other times like e.g. this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=15759&mesg_id=15800&page=

[Nicholas_J]

30. But 95 percent of the time

It is striaght stuff from the Burlington Free Press, Times Argus, Rutland Herald, Bipartisan Comissions called for by Dean himself, Liberal.Progressive articles by Norm Solomon, Alex Cockburn, and quotes from many Vermont Democratic Party Leaders like:

Dean kept his distance from his party’s liberals during his governorship.

"He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements," said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats’ liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee.

To the anger of more liberal members of his own party, he insisted that the tax increases be rolled back on schedule and then went on to work for additional tax cuts later in his tenure.

By the same token, though, he also supported raising taxes — as long as it wasn’t the income tax — when school funding crises and other issues arose that required it.


Certainly the Democratic caucus was never 100 percent behind him and where there were differences, it was around how progressive or how moderate he was," Chard said.

Rivers blames Dean for helping a third political party to flourish in Vermont that many say siphons votes from Democrats. "The Progressive Party gained some momentum during his years as governor because he was so conservative," Rivers said, although she said she still may support Dean for president.



http://premium1.fosters.com/2003/news/may%5F03/may%5F19/news/reg%5Fvt0519a.asp

Fosters is another LOCAL NEW ENGLAND source, liberal in nature, discussing Dean here...

More LIES, you say, then find Vermont Democrats who praise him and you will have a decent argument.

When you all attack me.. I can SMELL your fear.

Dena supporters on DU are terrified of this stuff. It is the only rational reason for attacks without validation of your statements through factual data that does not come from Dean for America.

Sorry, most of the stuff I post is the STRAIGHT truth about Dean, from many who had to deal with the "REPUBLICAN IN DRAG" as most of Vermonts Democrats in the legislature called him...




Coalitions with CONSERVATIVES...
Thats Howard Dean in a nutshell.

[acerbic]

32. Yup, 95% of the time you don't slip...

:-)

[XanaDUer]

23. Wait a minute...

Nicholas_j has not made any of this up. Everything is sourced, and everything is sourced to liberal sources, or newspapers in Vermont reporting Dr. Dean's own quotes and policies.

Dean harmed the the poor and middle classes, favored the wealthy, large corporations, created a climate that favored big business over mon-and-pop farms and businesses out of the running.

Dean and Wal-mart, and a lot more:

"Dean's record, however, shows just the opposite. Remember, when Dean took office there were no Wal-Marts in Vermont; there was no Home Depots; Burlington's downtown was dominated by local stores not the national chains that now rule the roost; there were 36% more small farmers in..."

Link:
http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02222003.html

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. Kerry's not saying this

his supporters are.

[acerbic]

16. Heh, yeah...

his supporters are.

...and then Kerry's site just happens to objectively report what the supporters are saying about him and how they are slandering Dean. :-)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. You are definitely....

acerbic. :)

[Larkspur]

15. I want Kerry to explain to me how he's going to defeat Bush $200 million

propaganda blitz. If Kerry is going to rely on TV, he'll get blown away.

Dean at least has a strategy to do an end run around the TV blitz -- the Internet and energized supporters. Kerry can't energize supporters.

[chimpymustgo]

24. Kerry is looking and sounding extremely Presidential tonight.

He really stands out in this group. His answers are wonderful, thoughtful and passionate.

Please - consider the match-up. That's a big part of electability. Kerry towers over * and Dean.

[DrFunkenstein]

26. Ketchup TV? The Digital Divide?

Dean may get Green Party people that care more about style than substance, but how is Dean going to energize the African-American community if they don't have the internet?

One of the reasons Kerry is "electable" is because he is sitting on a chilly iceberg of ketchup cash. It doesn't sound pretty, but neither does being crushed in the media war.

There are good and bad aspects of Dean's recent media saturation. The good is obvious - exposure. The bad is that it happened when few people are paying the least amount of attention. Time and Newsweek rarely put the same faces on thier cover, unless you are already the President. Which means the Dean phenomenon has already become old news, even if it grows significantly. He won't get these covers unless he wins the nomination, or has a spectucular scandal.

The one place Dean needs to conquer is the network news programs. I think he still has a shot at that, and will need it in the coming months. But my guess is that the big story will be his attempt to soften his image, yet another compromise for his liberal supporters. But who knows?

[AfricanDonkey]

27. I contend with your assumptions

The idea that all of this is within a vacuum is wrong. Dean has already said he will fight to the bitter end with whoever the eventual nominee is if it is not him. When we decide on a candidate, the grassroots that Dean has exited will join with whoever it is, including Dean and crush the GOP. And as Barney Frank says " They'll raise $200 million, but we'll only need $100 million because they're republicans and they sure know how to waste money"

[Nicholas_J]

28. That means Dean

Has decided to split the party and give Bush a decisive victory.

[Nicholas_J]

29. That means Dean

Has decided to split the party and give Bush a decisive victory.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

33. Huh?

Dean said he would support the nominee. The vast majority of his supporters -- which will be a HUGE number by next year -- will rally behind the nominee and throw their considerable support into the fight against Bush.

And if Dean wins the nomination, the Kerry-Lieberman-Graham-etc. supporters will do the same (with a few notable exceptions, ahem). I believe that for most people, the priority is to beat Bush. Dean's not "splitting the party" any more than any other candidate right now.
If he had said he would run as an independent, you'd have an argument, but he clearly said he wouldn't.

[deutsey]

38. No Dean supporters I know are as consumed with other candidates

as you are.

They like what they hear about and from Dean and get fired up to get involved as a result. I see this all the time.

I've had plenty of discussions with regular people in the offline world who support Dean and want to work to get him elected. They are not sitting around carping about how bad Kerry is, or Kucinich, or whomever. They are saying what is about Dean that inspires their support.

The one thing that unites all those I'm talking to (and I'm talking to quite a few because I'm organizing for Dean in my community and am in contact with others around the state) is their anger at Bush. If Dean does not get the nomination, I have no sense at all that these people will pout and sulk and refuse to support the nominee. Even if Dean says he won't support the nominee (as someone points out, that's highly unlikely), we're not zombie slaves of Dean. I believe most of us will do what we believe is right: unite to oust the imposter in the White House.

However, your characterization of how Dean could react is at odds with what I'm learning about the man.

[acerbic]

31. O'Really??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Dean has already said he will fight to the bitter end with whoever the eventual nominee is if it is not him.

I remember that claim spewed here earlier by obsessive compulsive Dean haters and as usual, the reality was that Dean has clearly said that he'll support whoever gets eventually nominated. If my memory fails, please provide source for your claim, hmm...?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

34. Read it again

He said he will fight WITH not AGAINST the eventual nominee, meaning he will support the nominee and fight against Bush. I know, I read it wrong the first time, too. And apparently so did Nick.

[acerbic]

36. Oh wow, I apologize to AfricanDonkey!

Damn knee jerk reactions against everything that certain critters seem to agree with... :-)

[DrFunkenstein]

35. Um, that was me actually

And I don't think of myself as an obsessive complusive Dean hater, although honestly I'm not sure what that even means.

Here's the cause of the - I believe - understandable confusion.

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=585

And, as I recall, I was rather gentlemanly in admitting that I was mistaken. But I suppose that's setting the bar a little high around here.

[acerbic]

37. Even if you admitted that you were mistaken,

the obsessive compulsive Dean haters don't admit it but continue to claim that the "misunderstanding" is the truth. BTW, that's how you recognize them and that's what obsessive compulsive Dean hater means.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. well this thread deteriorated in a hurry

The whole thing was supposed to be about Kerry's percieved "inevitibility" as the eventual nominee.
I think.....

and BTW AfricanDonkey is now tombstoned. (I wish these freepers would pick less obviously inciting handles) :eyes: