The excitement of doing something positive for a change,

[GumboYaYa]

that's why I like being involved with the Howard Dean campaign.

I have wallowed in pity since the day Gore conceded the 2000 election. I watched in dismay as Bush escaped scandal after scandal that would have sunk any Democratic president.

I wrote letters to my congresspeople and to newspapers complaining of the Bush administration. Even though I got responses from my elected officials (usually canned positions on the issues) and had a few letters published, I feel like I have been whistling in the wind for two and a half years.

With 2004 aproaching faster every day, I finally feel like we have a chance to do something real to end the Bush regime. Hoping for impeachment or resignation is false hope, but ousting Bush through the election is a true possibility.

Howard Dean has given me the opportunity to participate in the effort to oust Bush. His campaign actively promotes the individual efforts that we can all undertake to help get rid of Bush. I like Dean on most issues, but the reason I have become an ardent supporter is that he has given me a vehicle to take positive action against Bush.

I understand that there is always disagreement over candidates. Dean is not liberal enough for some, too liberal for others. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. No one candidate can make all of us happy, but I hope we can all agree that generally a Dem in the WH is better than the neocons there now (hell, even a moderate Republican like McCain would be better).

If others don't like Dean that's fine with me, but instead of tearing down Dean or other candidates, focus your energy on the positive. Promote your candidate. Go to meet-ups. Contribute if you can. Above all hit the streets and carry the message to the apathetic Americans who don't live for politics. It is exciting and fun to do.

Thanks Howard for letting me be a part of it.

[tpub]

1. what a positive message--thanks!

Dean's not my preferred candidate, but his message pushed me to get involved.

I'll gladly help Dean get elected if he wins the nomination. He's obviously got some great thinkers working for him.

[GumboYaYa]

3. My wife laughs at me whenever I get to campaign.

I can't stop talking for the next day or so. I like several of our candidates and could easily get just as excited about working for them.

[disgruntella]

2. ditto the thanks

You have made an excellent point. I am undecided as to which candidate I will support for the primaries (although I'll certainly support anyone Dem nominated). Of course it's legitimate to be concerned about which of the Dems currently in the running has what it takes to oust Bush. But the Dean campaign is certainly promoting a strong alternative-to-Bush message, and whether he's "the one" or not, I think that is invaluable to Democrats everywhere!

[Evanstondem]

4. The Excitement of Doing Something Positive

Amen, GumboYaYa!

I will support whomever the Dems eventually nominate, but Dean is saying what needs to be said about the Bush Administration and is helping people like me do the same.

[blm]

5. If Dean had never tried to tear down the other candidates

and misrepresent them just to glorify himself, then I'd agree with you. He started something ugly last January and kept up the attacks for months before anyone reciprocated.

Many here cheered him on in his attacks.

SBNA supporters think he should get a free pass for his attacks. Karma deems otherwise.

[babzilla]

6. there is an old adage that goes...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[GumboYaYa]

10. I was not aware that you have become the spokesperson

for Karma. :)

I suppose time will tell where Karma stands on the issue, I certainly won't substitute my judgment.

Are you talking about when he said he was there to "represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party"? If so I don't see that as an attack but more telling it like it is.

I hear about these "attacks" all the time, but I honestly have not seen one example of anything that Dean said about the other candidates that is not true and legitimate. Why can't he point out the difference between himself and the other candidates? I thought that was the purpose of a campaign.

Besides, you miss the point of my post. If you feel Dean unfairly attacked one of his opponents, join the opponent's campaign and help prove why Dean's attack is unfair. Don't sit here and say Dean is bad and Karma's gonna get him. Do something real for a candidate you support.

If your candidate wins, I guarantee you I will be there helping your guy or gal win the White House.

Karma has its own unique way of slapping people who don't practice what they preach.

[Name removed]

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[blm]

68. I understood your post and respect it...

But, I know that I and many others were attacked relentlessly for many months just for pointing out that Dean was not being honest in his attacks on the other candidates.

Do you think that being called Bushlite (by someone who is to your right) is NOT a lie or an attack? After hearing Nader say much the same about Gore in 2000?

Dean left audiences with the impression that the other candidates supported Bush and voted for taxcuts for the wealthy when NONE of them voted for the Bush taxcut.

He also said they had no backbone, yet his own dealings in Vermont showed he disliked fighting for issues so he always went directly to compromise, often aligning with the GOP against the Dems.

There is a silent group out there who have stopped posting but send me messages thanking me for continuing to counter the attacks, which, like it or not WERE begun by Dean last January.

I'm sorry it bothers the more neutral and fair-minded members of this board, but, I am earnestly countering someone who I think intended to do great harm to other candidates in an unfair way.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

69. OK. Dean started it.

Never has a primary been run where the candidates were all nice to each other. He made some criticisms that were wrong and apologized for them. He also made some criticisms that hit their mark.

The fact of the matter is that many of the beltway Dems did support portions of ChimpCo's agenda to the detriment of the country. (We know which votes those are).

Move on, woman. Those attacks, fair or unfair, apologized for or unapologized for, are in the past and all the campaigns are throwing garbage at each other, now. Just like every pre-primary election cycle thats ever existed. Dem or Pug.

If "He started it!" is all you've got to be angry about, I'd say that that's not much at all.

Just my humble opinion.

[blm]

71. OK...since the attacks started from the Dean camp...

ending the attacks can start from the Dean camp.

[GumboYaYa]

70. My whole point is to try to calm the he said ..she said

tone that is dominating. People forget that Dean asid this week that any Dem candidate is better than Bush.

I like Dean because he appears to be intelligent, pragmatic, and a fighter. I do not agree with him on every issue. It would be impossible for a candidate who aligned with my liberal positions on all the issues to ever go far in a national election. (See Dennis Kucinich)

I will support any Dem (except maybe Lieberman because of his position on the First Amendment).

If my response to you was to flippant, I apologize.

Now I'm off to the meet-up.

[ProfessorPlum]

19. Hey!

You got to say something nasty about Dean again. Good for you!

[deutsey]

7. Thanks. I share your feelings.

I feel for the first time in a long time that I'm actually working FOR a candidate I like, not against the candidate/incumbent I don't like. My first vote, for example, was against Reagan more than it was for Mondale.

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

11. Care to elaborate?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

16. Oh. OK.

:silly:

Here's to Dean getting the nomination! Bye! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

30. Uh huh. Whatever.

If you want to give us some details about why you feel as you do, fine. I support Dean, but I'm not his zombie slave. I'm open to hearing why people are against him. Which I asked you to do, without irony or invective. However, things like "he's a traitor" "he's the most evil person of the 21st century" etc., are things I can't take seriously.

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

56. Well, at least you gave some details

Clinton wasn't my first choice (I liked Tom Harken back in '91-'92), and I have to admit that Clinton continually frustrated me too throughout his two terms, mainly for some of the things you say here.

However, I don't agree with much else of what you say here, especially about Kucinich. I like most of what Kucinich believes in, but I just don't think he's the best spokesperson for the message. But at least I feel like I understand your point of view a little better now. Thanks.

Above all, though, the point of the original post wasn't to say Dean was God; the person was saying he/she was happy that he/she found a candidate that has inspired him/her to have hope and get involved. The point was to encourage everyone to get out there and work for their candidate. I understand that you dislike (hate, even) Dean. Fair enough, but do you think this particular thread was the most appropriate one to launch an attack on Dean? There are plenty of other ones where what you said (and how you said it) would have been more appropriate.

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

60. Ok. Nice talking to you.

:hi:

[LuminousX]

17. More Evil than Bush?

nt

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

61. Is Dean Satanic?

Have you been told he was 'Evil' by someone? Can other people see that person or entity?

[GumboYaYa]

12. Then you aren't a true Democrat.

If you would rather have Bush than Dean go right ahead and register Republican with your friends.

For me, I will vote for Air Bud Golden Receiver for President before I vote for Bush.

[Name removed]

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[GumboYaYa]

18. You will need to develop much thicker skin

if you plan on surviving around here. Hit ALert all you want, but there is no personal attack in my statement. You yourself said you planned on registering Republican if Dean won. Doesn't that make you a Republican and, ergo, not a Democrat.

Take your whiny BS somewhere else, cause it ain't gonna scare me.

[Name removed]

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[tpub]

23. CelticWarrior, I think you need to explain

why you think Dean is so evil. If, indeed, that's how you feel.

On edit: wish I hadn't posted this. This was supposed to be a positive thread, but so it goes......

[Name removed]

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[GumboYaYa]

29. I don't buy that.

I know lots of socialist democrats. I'm not too far from that position myself. I don't know a single socialist Democrat that would select the DNC logo as their avatar.

If you are a socialist Democrat, please reconcile that with your support of the DNC. The two do not compute to me.

[Name removed]

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[GumboYaYa]

41. Okay then, explain if change from within is your philosophy,

why is your solution to Dean's candidacy to register Republican and vote for Bush. If Dean wins at least you get democrats on the Supreme Court, assuming there is any legitimacy to your position that Dean is a conservative devil.

Should not your same philosophy that allows you to support the DNC despite its obvious and dramatic departure from the beliefs of a socialist Democrat apply to electing a Democrat to the office of President?

It simply does not compute with me. There are massive inconsistencies in your positions.

[Name removed]

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[deutsey]

42. Well, based on the tone and "substance" of your posts here

the DSA didn't do much to help you engage in political debate very well.


:eyes:

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

54. Suspicions

...
being confirmed

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

63. Democratic Socialists of America

Yeah, a fine upstanding organization. Real go getters. Striving for such a glorious future.

Interestingly enough, they seem to be more concerned about getting rid of Bush then fighting against Dean. Hmmmm....

[GumboYaYa]

64. Here's what they say.....

"In its first statement on the 2004 Presidential election the DSA PAC stated that defeating George Bush's reelection bid was "imperative", but declined to endorse any candidate at this time."

That sure does sound similar to some of the points I made in my original post as well as those made by others on here.

The DSA is headed by Frank Lewellyn. He is a great friend to the progressive movement and a staunch opponent to the Bush regime.

CW is corrupting the good name of the DSA for his/her own disruptive campaign.

[tpub]

67. so Clinton is evil

not just moderate, or bad, but evil?

[disgruntella]

33. post your opinions, but...

... isn't it the same to imply that you are from the "American" wing of the Democratic Party?

[Name removed]

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[disgruntella]

55. thanks. suspicion confirmed

you're a bot! (an entertaining one though)

have a nice day

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

15. Two comments, both negative against Dean

Welcome to DU.

Destroy the Democratic Party? If Dean is capable of destroying the Democratic Party then it isn't a Big Tent, it is a weatherworn shanty and probably should be rebuilt.

Dean, whether he wins or loses, has brought people back to the party who long ago left. That would be me. Ever since Clinton started his second term I stopped considering myself a Democrat. Not because of Clinton, but because it didn't seem like it mattered. I didn't think that the successes of the Clinton era would be so easily erased.

When Gore and Lieberman didn't fight in 2000, I gave up on the party all together. I specifically said that the Democrats have become a nothing party, trying to hard to represent every minor cause that they have lost focuse. Then came Dean. He doesn't claim to have a panacea. He is running on a limited agenda. He has a record of accomplishment. He has been well supported by his constituents in Vermont. He seems flexible and capable of integrating new information and ideas into his view.

If Dean doesn't get the nomination, I'm still proudly calling myself a Democrat again. That, to me, isn't destruction but creation. Not divisive, but unifying.

Of course when I hear people hear disparage Dean supporters as 'Nazis' or 'being duped' I sort of feel unwelcome, but at the end of the day, they can call me any name they want, I'm still a Democrat and I will support whoever is nominated, even if they don't really want my support.

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

28. Your Words are Marked

Hmmm... your rhetoric is ringing false to me.

[ProfessorPlum]

22. Hey!

You got to say something nasty too! You must be very proud.

I'm sure the Democratic party will survive without your rock solid support.

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

34. Anti-Clinton

I see you are anti-Clinton. What policies of his don't you support?

I'm also curious who you are culling a 'Roswell Democrat?' It's a catchy phrase. I'm sure the people IN Roswell and the surrounding area really appreciate being labelled as, essentially, useless Democrats.

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

45. Tells me all I need to know

"even if i have to vote Bush to stop Dean"

Yep, good to have you in the party. We are all the stronger for it.

[Name removed]

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[ieoeja]

65. Medicare?

What's your problem with Clinton on Medicare? This is an honest question. I really do not know about this issue. I did a search and all I could find:

1. Clinton wanted ALL medicare recipients to receive FREE prescription drugs. GOP wanted to limit these benefits.

2. GOP wanted to privatize Medicare. Clinton did not.


I couldn't find anything that actually happened (except for Clinton authorizing reimportation of prescription drugs as a last resort, partial solution). Am I missing something?

A centrist like myself might be expected to have a problem with Clinton's refusal to compromise (though on this I do not). But I imagine a Socialist Democrat like yourself would cheer Clinton's refusal to bend on this issue. I am guessing that I my search missed something. Hence my question to you.

[MercutioATC]

32. Good riddance, CelticWarrior.

If you're willing to abandon a political philosophy over a single candidate, if you're THAT unsure where your principles lie, maybe you SHOULD register as a Republican.

I don't say this as a Dean supporter, I say it as a Democrat who has seen you make 14 posts...11 of them attacking Dean and his suporters (I believe the word "asshole" was used once) and 2 of them specifically stating that you'd register or vote Republican if Dean wins the nomination.

With supporters like you, the Democratic party doesn't need enemies...

[Name removed]

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[LuminousX]

48. Begin the Party Purge Now!

[Name removed]

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[MercutioATC]

49. Sorry, I don't believe you...and neither do many others here, I'll bet

You're doing NOTHING in support of your candidate, you're simply spouting vitriol about Dean. How about some positive statements? Tell us what you LIKE about Kucinich.

Personally, I couldn't care less what you have to say. There are plenty of sensible Kucinich supporters here who actually have something valuable to post.

I DID mean what I said about your political affiliation, though.

[Name removed]

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[Ripley]

31. Good post.

Except for the McCain part. ;-)

However, this will surely descend into the pit of DEAN STARTED IT and why he is so EVIL. This forum is really becoming irritating with the vitriolic hateful attacks by so many people. You just can't tell the freepers from the other 8 Dem candidate supporters anymore...

[GumboYaYa]

35. It's funny, b/c the Dean started it response

exactly misses the point of my post. I like Dean, you like Dean, but there are lots of people who like other candidates. I respect their opinions and will join their fight if their guy/gal wins. It takes solidarity to beat Bush. The people tearing down other candidates are dangerous in my view regardless of whether their hatred comes from the right or left.

[Ripley]

36. Yup. I guess I'm guilty of lining up sometimes to defend Dean

and my support for him. But I certainly don't scan for positive Kerry threads and trash him they way they always do.

:crazy:

[DrFunkenstein]

47. No! No! We Must Be Pure! Pure as Driven Snow!

If the Democratic reich - er, Party - is to return to its former glory, we must purify ourselves of all foul and putrescent forces (whichever candidates are not your first choice).

I must wash my hands again. They must be clean! Clean, I say!

:evilgrin: :evilfrown: x( :o O8)

[DrFunkenstein]

62. You Are An Inspriration To Deanies and Non-Deanies Alike

I wish more of us had your enthusiasm, determination, and good vibrations. I recommend to everyone behind every candidate to follow GumboYaYa's example and do what you can to get people politically involved. The more people pay attention, the better it is for Democrats. The GOP thrives on ignorance.

Here is the Meet Up website. Find your candidate and sign up today!

http://www.meetup.com/

[GumboYaYa]

66. Thanks Dr. F.

By the way I love your name. I'm a giant funk fan. the Meters are probably my favorite band.

I wish Sharpton had a chance in the General Election. I assume that is your candidate from you avatar. I really like his fire and energy and I would love to help elect an African-American President. But for that damn Brawley affair, I would be pushing Al as the best VP candidate.