"The people they are insulting today are the same people Obama needs in November."

[DeepModem Mom]

San Francisco Chronicle: Cool It and Update
Mick LaSalle

....the greatest impediment to Obama's winning in November, should he be nominated, is not anything Clinton might say, and it might not even be the inadequacy of his resume. It's the grandiose, obnoxious self-righteousness of (not all but) so many of his supporters, and their cheerleaders in the press.

I am already at the bag on my head, wear a glove and hold my nose stage at the thought of ever voting for this guy. The idea of voting in a way that makes Keith Olbermann happy, when I picture him getting red-faced and inflating his own outrage -- or voting in a way that Maureen Dowd, Frank Rich, Chris Matthews and most people on Air America would like -- is almost too much to get over.

Maybe I'm the only one who minds. (Think so?) But the thing to remember is that the people they are insulting today are the same people that Obama needs in November. Needs badly. And it's a little too much to expect people -- lots of people -- enough to make Obama win -- to pull the lever for Obama, when his campaign has set up a situation where the politically satisfying outcome is at odds with the emotionally satisfying outcome.

That is to say, if you set up a situation where the Clinton supporters have a choice between voting for the guy they agree with (Obama) or voting to see the emotionally satisfying outcome (Obama losing 49 states), it might be too much to expect 100% of the Clinton supporters choosing politics over emotion. People vote like Captain Kirk, not Mr. Spock. Already 28% of Clinton's supporters, according to one poll, say they'd vote for McCain. Those numbers will change. But if Obama is to win, they ALL have to change....

As Russ Feingold said yesterday, it's time for Obama's supporters to "Cool it." Because if anyone is going to make it impossible for Obama to win, they will.

Update: I should have mentioned this earlier. The occasion for the above rumination is that I ran into a woman yesterday who is WAY, WAY more liberal than I am, who voted for Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, etc. who told me that she was thinking of voting for McCain -- or at least sitting this one out -- because she is tired of the self-righteous media pile-on against Hillary and can't stand the media goon squad that swoons over Obama. You think she's the only one? You think she is not a demographic, just a lone eccentric? Go ahead. Make McCain's day.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=38&entry_id=25297

[LakeSamish706]

1. You see, the problem with your post is most of us Obama supporters feel the same...

about your candidate. I honestly could not bring myself to vote for Hillary (I would rather not vote at all)... I do not see her being much better than what we have in the WH right now, nor do I see her being much better than McCain..... She is a Corporate shill that has voted for all the same things that McCain has basically.... Including the Iraq war and an attack on Iran...

[DJ13]

2. Ditto!

Agree 100%.

:thumbsup:

[DeepModem Mom]

5. Obama is my candidate, and I want him to win in November. This writer...

concedes that he is the nominee.

I am a neutral poster of articles here (posting articles both positive and negative about both candidates), but I was the organizer/proposer of the DU Obama Group, I voted for him in my primary, I am a maxed-out contributor to his campaign.

I know the abuse here comes from both sides, but I think there is a kernel of truth in what this writer has to say. I may or may not agree with all he says.

[LakeSamish706]

8. Then you might want to take on an Avatar that lets others know that you are...

an Obama supporter... I don't follow you around to know who you support or don't..... If you read my response, then you probably know how I feel about both Bill and Hillary Clinton...

[DeepModem Mom]

10. My purpose here has always been as a poster of articles...

and since I try to post without an agenda, just to inform both sides what's out there, I don't like to make a huge point of my own candidate choice. Also, while I support Obama, some of my nearest and dearest are Hillary supporters; I respect them, and don't hate her.

If I sounded snarky in my response to you, I apologize. You make a good point. There are many Clinton supporters who are not kind to Obama supporters, and if you want to mentally substitute "Clinton" for "Obama" in the above piece, I say go for it!

[LakeSamish706]

11. I am not trying to pick a fight with you in any way shape or form... I really don't know...

you as a poster and thus, did not know whom you support for a candidate. We do have an ugly race to the finish going on, and I have my candidate and will fight to the finish for that candidate. I want change and personally have had enough of the Bush's and Clinton's to last me a life time. Will John McCain win in November? I don't know the answer to that question, but if the American people do elect him, they will be damn sorry in my view.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. I agree --

and I didn't mean to pick a fight either. I'm serious -- you make a good point. There's plenty of ugliness from all sides in this race. And in the end, we're on the same side: "damn sorry" if John McCain wins.

Thank you for your posts, Lake!

:patriot:

[LakeSamish706]

14. Peace Modem! n/t

[NashVegas]

27. Civility Recognizes No Avatar

Who DMM supports doesn't matter; she has a right - as does everyone on DU - to post a reasoned article without getting jumped on, regardless of what her avatar reflects, and she shouldn't have to wear an avatar of someone else's choosing at the risk of having her posts get flamed.

[pacalo]

25. Respectfully, I have a question to which you will, hopefully, give me a respectful answer.

Are there any examples of Obama standing up to the current regime during his time as U.S. senator? Please don't include any campaign statements. I'd really appreciate an answer.

For the record, I'm not a Hillary supporter. Let's just say that I'm completely underwhelmed & lack any excitement for the '08 election.

[dkf]

3. John McCain may be an honorable man, but he is beginning to strike me as a bit of a boob.

He has to ask someone else for his position on sex ed for goodness sakes.

He is ripe to be someone's puppet. Not good.

If you want someone that clueless as President, then, hey...vote for the guy.

But we've already had one of those and we are not doing very well.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. It goes both ways. The level of obnoxiousness from both sides is amazing.

And I don't want either Obama supporters or Hillary supporters chiming in with "It's not us, it's THEM! WE aren't like that! Anyhow, THEY started it!" Because yes, a whole lot of you on both sides ARE like that. There's plenty of assholery to go around.

[LakeSamish706]

6. Nope, there are Democrats, Republicans, and those that are somewhere in between...

I happen to think that the Clinton's are somewhere in between..... What Democrat goes out and actually states that John McCain is a good man and blah, blah, blah.. But ignores the other Democratic candidate... Something wrong with that picture for sure.

[cbayer]

9. How dare you?

How dare you say that if someone supports Clinton they are not a Democrat? How dare you compare her to Bush and call her a corporate shill? How dare you say she supports an attack on Iran?

You are talking points - shallow and often repeated without any ability to back it up.

You are exactly what the OP speaks about.

[LakeSamish706]

12. Yeah ok... lol.. I just love your melo drama.. You sure your not Hillary? n/t

[cbayer]

18. I apologize for taking this out on you personally.

You were just the first one in my sight when I finally snapped over this BS. It's not melodrama, it's anger. What is being done to Clinton in this campaign by Obama supporters, who I feel are being used by the right wing, is despicable.

I am sure you have your own reasons for disliking her but your statements are not reasoned. She is not what you paint her to be.

[cbayer]

7. Pride goeth before a fall.

I like Obama. A lot. I will happily vote for him should he get the nomination.

But many of his supporters here at DU, not so much.

I've been involved in a lot of elections and I have never witnessed a group of people marginalize those that they will need to win to this extent. Ever.

I have never witnessed this kind of intolerance of those who you will need to be allied with in the future. Ever.

It is the kind of short-sighted hubris that got us George Bush. It drives me away from the candidate.

Is he is aware of what some of his supporters are doing and not addressing it? Is he not aware and assuming that his supporters emulate him? Either way, if Obama gets the nomination and loses the GE, I think some of his supporters will bear some of the responsibility.

[grasswire]

15. the tone of the Bushbots and the Obama supporters is eerily similar

For years, I monitored freerepublic.com every day. The Bushbots angered an awful lot of conservatives with their arrogance, intolerance, and incivility. Insert "Obama" where they said "Bush" and it would be nearly interchangeable with today's rhetoric here.

[cbayer]

16. Fascinating.

I read one of your posts earlier about that experience and found it really interesting. I think it has something to do with zealotry but am lacking clarity on what is driving it.

I am sure there will be extensive post-game coverage on this, probably for years to come. It is fascinating and very unsettling to me now, however. I am beginning to associate Obama with his supporters and I don't think that's a fair comparison.

[izzybeans]

17. back at ya

ditto,

touche

and all that...

It takes two to tango and all else reminding you that there are two sides to a coin.

[DeepModem Mom]

19. Agreed -- see some posts of mine upthread. nt

[izzybeans]

20. I really wish that we can move beyond this.

Too many people are munching on sour grapes fed to them by no one but themselves. The candidates get blamed by those projecting their own faults.

I haven't had a serious conversation on here in I'm not sure how long.

:toast: to a hopeful future, nonetheless. We've got great candidates.

[Mojorabbit]

21. In real life

I don't know anyone who is following the campaigns like we do here. So I don't know how much(if at all) this will affect the general election.

[DeepModem Mom]

22. Interesting thought. As a matter of fact, in real life, most Dems I know like both candidates.

On the other hand, there was that poll that indicated a big chunk of the supporters of both candidates would bail to McCain if their candidate were not nominated.

:shrug:

[quiet.american]

23. I'm not surprised Clinton supporters would vote for McCain.

Hillary Clinton - DLC.
Hillary Clinton - in bed with Richard Mellon Scaife and Rupert Murdoch.
Hillary Clinton - Iraq War Resolution vote.
Hillary Clinton - Insists it's time the Iraqi government step up to the plate to open the "gift" we've given them.
Hillary Clinton - Who lowered the tone of the Democratic primary race with her mocking, patronizing and condescension.

Frankly, I'm surprised Hillary Clinton has such fervent progressive supporters on this board. I might still have been one of them, but my rose-colored glasses about the Clintons came off a long time ago.

And also frankly, I have seen more Obama supporters on this board state they will still vote for Clinton if she pulls off the primaries than have seen Clinton supporters state they will vote for Obama in the same circumstance.

Who has done more to make McCain's day? The Clintons, with their constant veiled endorsements of him (still shocking and unheard of in a Democratic presidential primary) or Obama, who, with the vast and rich material available to him on Bill and Hillary Clinton (of true and not true salacious ammunition) has tenaciously attempted to stick to the high road.

[pacalo]

24. K&R.

[Cha]

26. hilary is the one who insults Obama supporters

with her mocking us in Rhode Island and saying all the States don't count where Obama won.

No Obama supporter could be as vile as hilary and this guy that wrote the article, mike lasalle, is whining and I feel sorry for him but that's all.