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Is John Kerry un-electable?

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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:05 AM
Original message
Is John Kerry un-electable?
Many detractors point out his aloof style. Others say the "intellectual" as a candidate is still too unpopular in America.

Questions about the South and Mid west are often raised.
Inside the beltway policy wonk, is another I hear often.
And then of course there's the famous "Massatchussets Liberal" Label.

Do tell, I like Kerry but all these points do weigh in,

help convince me; why should I vote Kerry?

John Q.Public
voted republican



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VoteClark Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. I would tell him this:
The Democrats are 35 points BEHIND the Republicans in the area of Forign policy and the war of terrorist. The Bush Administration has forcefully retired 12 Generals, and Powell will be gone in if Bush gets elected.

We need a President that has actually seen battle. That has the experience to take on Terrorism and respect the welfare of our boys and girls in uniform.

Kerry is the only candidate, Democrat or republican, that has these skills. We need a leader in the issues of Domestic and Foreign policy. Kerry has a proven record in both of these areas and is in the best postion to challenge Bush and to overcome the problems facing America between 2005 and 2009 that is in the race at this time.

Just my thoughts.

J4Clark
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. If it's Skull & Bones vs Skull & Bones I won't vote for Skull & Bones.
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VoteClark Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Dean is Skull and Bones Society Too. Bet you didn't know that :)
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KellyW Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Dean is NOT a member of S&B
He went to Yale but he was never "tapped"
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Dean never belonged to S and B!!!!
He did not come from a wealthy and well connected family!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. actually he did belong to a wealthy family
I wont call him Skull and Bones but he sure as hell did come from a well to do family, his father and grandfather were New York stockbrokers thats pretty well to do, not saying Kerry had it bad but to say that Dean wasnt well connected and wealthy is worng.
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George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. Imagine this
Bush and his cronies go after the Dems in a typically predictable "liberal softy" attack. Then Kerry pulls out the big guns: "Mr. Bush, where were YOU when I was in the jungles of 'Nam taking out VC nests and rescuing my countrymen? HMMMMMMM?!" Kerry has very solid platforms on health care, foreign policy, and the environment. Dems in 04 are often accused of having no platform except anti-Bush. Kerry is not one of them. He is anti-Bush, but he has his own methods as well.

I do agree his "intellectual" image is not one that bodes well for a country that likes to elect kindly family men over thoughtful intellectuals.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. He is the only candidate
That the Bushies are afraid of...

He trumps the entire war thing with the AWOL usurper.

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ryharrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. I don't really think he's electable
Edited on Mon Aug-04-03 03:42 AM by ryharrin
I like him, and he's up there near the top of the list for me (my favorite is Dean, with Clark second), but damn is that man boring. Boring as all hell. Almost as boring as Lieberman. I also don't think his Vietnam experience will help much. The press won't talk about it much, because it'll hurt poor bushie, and we already know that republicans have no problems with attacking the patriotism of veterans (Max Cleland)

on edit: fixed subject so that it actually made sense.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I think he's completely electable...if we want to elect him.
Anyone's just as electable as anyone else.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Aloof? You mean like Gore?
The guy who won election 2000. That kind of aloof? Rule number one of the modern media: if they say something's so, then maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kerry Brought Up AWOL, Cocaine, and Harken In 2000
He plays for keeps. Don't let his diplomatic style fool you. Just ask Bill Weld what Kerry is like in a drag-out national level campaign. Ask Ollie North what he thinks of Kerry (hint: he was so afraid of him, he put an investigation team on him - just like Nixon did!).

I think too many people think national campaigns are played like checkers - straight ahead. It is chess at the highest levels for the highest stakes, and only a chessmaster like Kerry can take down Rove's machine.

For the record, alot of the crooks Kerry helped put away in the Iran-Contra scandal showed up on Bush's foreign policy team. Do you think Kerry is going to sit on that? Or Bush's whole chickenhawk armada down at the Pentagon?
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Amen...
Kerry is no pushover like Dukakis was. He's already proven time and time again he doesn't take bullshit from righties...
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Kerry Putting The Chickenhawks In Their Place
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lashed out at top congressional Republicans on Friday after they assailed him for saying the United States, like Iraq, needs a
regime change.

``The Republicans have tried to make a practice of attacking anybody who speaks out strongly by questioning their patriotism,'' the Massachusetts senator said in a telephone interview with The
Associated Press. ``I refuse to have my patriotism or right to speak out questioned. I fought for and earned the right to express my views in this country.''

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War veteran, backed a congressional resolution last fall giving President Bush the authority to use force to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, but he repeatedly has
criticized the president for failing to give diplomacy more time.

In a speech Wednesday in Peterborough, N.H., Kerry said Bush so alienated allies prior to the U.S.-led war against Iraq that only a new president can rebuild damaged relationships with other
countries.

``What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,'' Kerry said.

Several leading Republicans said Kerry's comments were inappropriate with U.S. troops fighting in Iraq. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said the statement amounted to ``petty, partisan insults launched solely for personal political gain.''

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Kerry's words ``desperate and inappropriate.'' Said House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., ``Once this war is over, there will be plenty of time for
the next election.''

Kerry dismissed the attacks, telling an Atlanta political gathering Thursday that patriotism is not mutually exclusive with questioning the war. One day later, he delivered an even sharper rebuke to the GOP complaints.

``If they want to pick a fight, they've picked a fight with the wrong guy,'' Kerry said in a telephone interview.

The lawmaker said this round of charges and countercharges is not the first time Republicans have made a ``phony issue of patriotism.'' He cited last year's campaign against former Georgia Democratic Sen. Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in the Vietnam War.

``I watched what they did to Max Cleland last year,'' Kerry said. ``Shame on them for doing it then and shame on them for trying to do it now.''

Following a speech to the New York State United Teachers convention in Washington, Kerry said, ``I'm not going to let the likes of Tom DeLay question my patriotism, which I fought for and
bled for in order to have the right to speak out.''

Neither Hastert, Frist nor DeLay served in the military. In response to Kerry, DeLay spokesman Jonathan Grella said, ``There's a difference between loving your country and leading it. Demanding
regime change in America isn't unpatriotic _ it's vile.''

Kerry said Republicans have no right to criticize him when they are cutting funds to veterans hospitals.

http://www.johnkerry.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6455&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thats awesome I really am taking a liking to Kerry
I would love for Kucinich to win really, but its so hard really but you know I like Kerry too, and for the most part his supporters same with Deans are respectable to DK, now Dean supporters most of you are nice to DK, but I've seen some negative stuff too, and besides I think if you want to be realistic and follow your heart at the same time, Kerry would be better than Dean, who is being called a Rockefeller republican now,(the kind of people I dont vote for)
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hardly unelectable, Boston Globe (a generally republican paper)
Poll: Kerry has N.H. edge: Dems see senator as `electable'

by David R. Guarino
Sunday, July 27, 2003




Vaulted into the top tier of Democratic presidential hopefuls by his tough, anti-war rhetoric, Howard Dean still can't convince New Hampshire voters he can beat President Bush, a new Boston Sunday Herald poll shows.

``Although the Dean message is a popular one, Kerry is perceived as having more experience in foreign policy and is seen as more electable,'' said Herald pollster R. Kelly Myers.

Forty-four percent of voters say Kerry is more electable than Dean - only 17 percent say Dean has a better shot against Bush, the poll found.

Kerry, and Kerry alone has the years of Foreign affairs experience, wrote the medicaid changes that allowed the small increses in medicaid services in Vermont for Adults as well as the program that allwed Dea to expand Vermonts Dr Dynasair program to families at 300 percent above the federal poverty level.

This too will all come out as Kerry begin a hard campaign against Dean this fall.

So again, to you want to be right and weak

Or Right and Strong

WHen November 2004 comes around.



Dean, while surging nationally, has had to battle a nagging sense among Democrats that he is too liberal, poorly funded or lacks the stature to take on Bush in the general election.

While Dean could take some solace that New Hampshire voted for Republican John McCain over Bush despite similar electability concerns, Myers said Kerry should exploit the clear opening against his toughest opponent.

``It's certainly something for the Kerry campaign to emphasize and remind people, putting subtle messages out there that, when it comes to November, I'm the candidate that will send Bush back to Crawford, (Texas),'' Myers said.

In the Herald poll of likely New Hampshire primary voters, Dean takes 28 percent of the vote and Kerry 25 percent while a second tier of candidates lagged behind, U.S. Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut at 11 percent and U.S. Rep. Richard Gephardt (D-Mo.) at 9 percent.

http://www2.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/poll07272003.htm

Now a CBS poll places Dean competing with Bus and the election results being beaten by Bush by 15 points, where the stats for Kerry are the closest to beating Bush w2ith Kerry at 42 percent, and Bush at 50 percent.

with this poll pacing Kerry and Dean statistically at a dead heat, within the margin of error, where it comes to electabilit, Kerry is so far ahead of Dean that Dean need not even try to run, republicans Know they cand beat him without even trying to steal the election.

As for Bush, CBS shows him with a 60% approval rating, their lowest since prior to 9/11, Newsweek shows Bush at 55% approval. These numbers are typically 15% above the likely support number, though the Newsweek poll shows Bush beating all comers in head-to-head match-ups:



When registered voters were asked who they would vote for in a general presidential election between Bush and a Democratic opponent, Bush won every race—against Dean (53 percent vs. 38 percent), Edwards (51 percent vs. 39 percent), Gephardt (51 percent vs. 42 percent), Kerry (50 percent vs. 42 percent) and Lieberman (52 percent vs. 39 percent).

This is within the range for any of the Democrats to win.

http://www.mydd.com/archives/000675.html

THe CBS poll places All of these candidates within winning rage, but Kerry has absolutely the best shot in this national poll, and in highly Republican New Hampshire, Kerrys chance of beating Bush is almost 250 percent higher than Deans chance. In the national CBS poll Kerry's has twoce as good a chance of breating Bush...

Now you have to ask the question. Do you want give away your vote on the basis of campaign talk, as slick as any deodorant commercial, or do you want to play to win. Do you want to risk 4 more years of Bush by voting for someone who little is known about, but may come out in when Bush starts to campaign against Dean, or for someone every Republican administration since Nixons has tried to destroy and failed. THere is no virtaully no possiblity of a surprise about Kerry coming up to smear him, but with Deans sealing of his records for almost twice the normal time perion, having rewuested 20 years first, and using the statement "Not wanting something embarassing to be used against him" as part of the explaination, and the Vermont REpublicans now demanding the Dean open his record to the public, and having the political power to force him to by legislation, any Dean effort to keep those records closed is going to have every Democrat in America thinking "Whitewater" if Dean does not come clean.

Deans latest pullback on National Health will also begin to erode his popularity. MAny of the older of Deans supporters supported him based largely on his National Health stance. They do not expect incrementalism. As Kucinich said, you dont jump a canyon in two leaps. Dean record on actually providing Health Care in Vermont will now be closely scrutinized, and when it is revealed that all increases resulted from federal changes to medicaid, his statements about doing for the nation what he did for Vermont will be viewd in a new, and skeptical light.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Edit your header, Nicholas---it should read 'Herald', not 'Globe'
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Of course not
Every Democratic candidate is electable if the economy is as bad as it appears it will be. Kerry has a great deal of assents. Give him a southern or western governor as his running mate and he would do OK. If the economy is good Jesus is unelectable as a Democrat.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. 4 years of Bush's "shootfromthelip" embarassments
and you think the American people will spurn the intellectual Kerry? Europe and the rest of the world are begging the US to elect Kerry. World leaders worked with him on Kyoto for 10 years and they trust him.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes - he is unelectable
His is milquetoast, aloof, intellectual, subtle, wishy-washy, nuanced and completely unelectable in America.

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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. electable
You mean Lieberman!!!

John Kerry is going to win next year



JOHN KERRY PRESIDENT 2004
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crissy71 Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. here we go
He's a war hero, he's an engaging speaker, he knows how to fight back, he can deflect the soft-on-terror label while still not turning off the left wing...

also, the south isn't even necessary with the combo of states Gore won in 2000 - also keep in mind that Bush IS NOT A VERY GOOD CANDIDATE, NEITHER WAS GORE, But Kerry IS (btw, have not been impressed by Dean's style when I've seen him on TV, Ads, etc - substance yes, style no)
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. Of course Kerry is electable
all of our candidates are.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kerry's electable
Kucinich is more electable because he doesn't have all the baggage. However, Kerry seems to be a good man and would certainly beat Bush.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. how about Kerry-Kucinich
not sure but you know sometimes duos who havent had much in common have ran, case in point JFK-LBJ and Lincoln- Andrew Johnson.
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