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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:04 PM
Original message
Armed with poll, DLC states its case for steering party
Fearing that antiwar liberals will spoil Democratic prospects in the presidential race, the party's pro-business moderates yesterday brandished a new survey which contends that, in terms of voter loyalty, Democrats are in their worst shape "since the dawn of the New Deal."

Translation: At its annual summer meeting, the centrist Democratic Leadership Council renewed its three-month feud with presidential candidate Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor who has galvanized left-leaning activists with his outspoken attacks on President Bush and Dean's opposition to the war in Iraq.

Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana told reporters at the Wyndham Philadelphia at Franklin Plaza, where the group's two-day meeting concluded yesterday, that his party was being threatened by "the far left" (although he said he wouldn't "name names"). And the numbers released by pollster Mark Penn suggest that independent suburbanites - the "swing" voters in national elections - would back Bush rather than move leftward.

The question for Democrats, Bayh said, is: "Do we want to vent, or do we want to govern?"

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/nation/6405737.htm


http://www.ppionline.org/documents/PennPoll_0703.pdf
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. In other words
the DLC is loosing traction and will do all they can
to keep their voice and continue to steer the party.

Well I'd say the DLC is loosing contact with reality, but
that is my view from where I seat.

:evilfrown:

I wish instead of practicing Wedge Politics they woke
up and smelled the coffee, the enemy is not Howard Dean
but George Dubyah Bush.

:mad: :mad:
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Steering a herd of cats is a lost cause
Kucinich and Dean are not representing the anti-war people. Kucinich and Dean are trying to represent the ANTI-LIEwing of the Democratic Party.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. "pro-business moderates "
Translation: Bought and paid for by the same corporate entities that own the republican party.

yella
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. If we are still talking about Iraq in 2004, the GOP is *toast*.
The DLC has no longterm vision. These guys are obsessed with the latest polls, everything being now, now, now.

If Iraq is still an issue in 2004, Bush is in a lot of trouble. If everyone will have forgotten about it, then it really isn't a problem for Democrats.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Fickle swing voters
Swing voters critical of Bush on Iraq

http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/07290002aaa01ccb.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=LATEBRKN&Type=News&Filter=Late%20Breaking

Hey, Bayh! With control of exactly zero branches of govt, just how much governing do you figure you're doing now?
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. EXACTLY!
If they're so damn good for the party, why are they in the position of having to tell us how they're so damn good for the party?
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searchingforlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. I guess we should start a thread asking if there are any
"independent suburbanites" on DU who disagree with this and are "damn mad" about being lied to and having their sons and daughters slaughtered. The 10th grade soccer player of today is the soldier of tomorrow and that's a fact.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. I swear to God
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 06:24 PM by ThorsteinVeblen
I will not vote Democratic if the DLC wins.

And that is a threat.

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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not that your vote matters
You're one of 100 million people who will vote in 2004. You don't matter, Thorstein. I will vote for any Democrat who gets the nomination, including Lieberman.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. No my single vote does not matter
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 06:35 PM by ThorsteinVeblen
But just imagine how many people I statiscally represent.

Where do you think all that support for Dean comes from?

Maybe half, maybe 3/4s of Dean supporters feel the way I do - betrayed, used, outraged.

This is not going to be a normal election. The DLC still is living in 1995. They are smiling like Stepford Wives caught between their abusive husbands (Bush) and a Hurricane (Dean supporters).

The Hurricane is going to smash their house, one way or the other. Whether or not the party survives or not depends if the wife has enough sense and guts to run away from her abusive husband and seek shelter.

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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Dude, you should support the nominee.
If a candidate can't get past From and TMac, they certainly aren't going to do well against the oil combines, pharmaceuticals, superbanks, et cetera. Too many supreme court justices, jobs, and lives of american servicemen are at stake.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Don't tell me what I should do.
The Democratic Party is going to lose in 2004 anyway.

The important thing is to send a message that the whole party needs to be re-evaluated.

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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. lol
Ok thorstein. Just keep marching into irrelevancy with your far leftist/communist/ridiculous views.

If you think the Democratic Party is going to lose in 04 then why do you bother posting here? Maybe you should go start a communistunderground.com or another site?
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. By the way,
um, nice avatar. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves you know. And you're a far leftist?
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. RE-evaluated to what
To the extreme right turn of Deanism?
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VoteClark Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Bye Thornstein, you miss out, hate to be ya man!
The DLC and DNC are the Democratic Party, and the nominee is the Democratic party's choice. So if you don't like that, well, the Republican Party, Green Party, and Libretarian Party would love to have ya!

J4Clark and a Proud DLCer :)
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. It doesnt matter
Dean's support overall is such a TINY portion of the overall public, that it will be "Howard Who" the day after the elections. And the DLC will make sure he does not EVER stand a chance of running for any office again.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well
Since DLC candidates hold 2/3rds of the votes in the national polls, and Dean hovering around ten to fifteen percent at the highest, and not all Dean voters will stay at home if Dean is not the monination becasue the party decides it wants a candidate who ACTUALLY has a chance of winning, and does not want the same McCartthy and McGovern fiasco's they have facesd by going with a one trick pony candidate, it doubt that the reaction to the DLC taking over and deciding what the best winning strategy will be. As a matter of fact, if the strategy provides a winner, Dean will face a similar situation as Jimmy Carter's "Jimmy Who?" phenomenon. Only it will be the day after the election that people wil be saying "Howard Who?"

Dean is largely responsible for this himself. HE started the dirty politics, attacking the DLC and all of the other candidates, the democratic groups and leaders who provided large sums to all of his campaigns for governor, and watched his back after he signed the Civil Union Act, from the attacks of people like Ruth Dwyer, and groups like "Take Back Vermont" who were raising enormous sums from fundamentalist and other anti-gay organizations. Dean repayed the party's years of loyalty to him with attack after attack, and if they decide to not support him, but use the same kind of politics to keep Dean out, it is only just.

Looking at the polls, in which 100 percent of all of the people polled are listed, between 64 and 70 percent of the votes are going to DLC candidates, and the two who are not, Mosely Braun and Sharpton are not likely tothrow their support to Dean, when they see that the largest percentage of the voters still support the DLC, and not Deans attacks on it. Mosely Braun is still a DLC loyalist, and Sharpton will support those who thinks he can get the most support from and from the stance most likely to win. Deans stance on the death penalty, guns, drug treatment, his willingness to cut social programs that help those at the lower economic stratas and so on is not likely to win him favors from the black community. So all that is left in the national polls is about 15 percent undecided voters, and all of the undecided will not FLOCK to Dean. Which means the DLC candidates will control 80 percent of the vote at the very least, and Dean 20 at the most. Perhaps 25 if he is EXTREMELY fortunate. Dean decided to attack both sides, and attack his on party harder than Bush. Bush is going to peg Dean as a liberal, because Dean has been so vague as to what he is, that his enemies can call him whatever they like, and they will be very likely beleived. Dean can be accused of wanting to raise their taxes by repealing Bush's tax cuts, and now that he has backed away from his "You can have Health Insurance OR Tax cuts' speech that he gave about only two months ago, and still talks about repealing the cuts but having to wait for the "INCREMENTAL HEALTH CARE" Deans days are numbered.

He attacked the other cnadidates, the DLC and no one from the democratic party is going to come to his rescue. The DLC is ging to keep EVERY candidate in the race, keep the DLC percentage of the vote over 50 percent, and then select ONE of the candidates other than Dean to be the nominee. They will discuss it and make concessions to those who will back away and give their support and delgates to the one candidate the DLC thinks has the best shot of beating Bush.

Dean made his own bed...now he can sleep uneasily in it.

Like I used to tell my staff members when they asked me why I was so good, and intelligent a supervisor and not a tyrant. I told them that it was because I am smart enough to know I am not smart enough to outsmart 5 people who have decided they are going to get me, much less 35.

Deans arrogance and the arrogance of is supporters that he is smart and tough enough to take on everyone he has abused is the most powerful weapon that Deans opponenets have.
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. If you like venting why don't you vote for Bush?
To be honest..I am sick of this watered down, DLC shit.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. To be honest
Edited on Sun Aug-03-03 09:04 PM by Nicholas_J
I am tired of this "Dean is the answer to the DLC" shit.

Sorry, if you have been slickered into thinking that Dean is going to outperform the DLC and not be controlled by business interests guess again. With Alex Cockburn calling Dean the "Serf of Capital" and Deans consistant support of big buisness and threats to vet ALL legislation that did not favor big business. why dont you just state that you want to do away with the democratic party altogether and have just one big group of repulicans running the government, so that Dean can belong to the one part into which he really fits in.

Dean is the most corporate controlled, laizzez faire capitalist, eliminate government regulation, candidate runniing , and I am incliding Bush among that list.

If Dean wins the candidacy, it means that any idea of a "DEMOCRATIC" party has died in America.

ALready it appears that under Dean, national health is a Dean issue. He is slowly weaseling his way from it being an immediante crisis, to and incremental deal, and bbefore its over, Dean will do what he did in Vermont. Promise it, and then forget about if he wins, the instant he gets into office. Its what he always has done.Dena went from pormising universal health care, to incrementalism, to demading serious cuts to health care becasue it could not be afforded.

This latest Dean statement is just another example of who Howard Dean is. A true Republican, trying to slicker theytoung and very uninformed that he is sincere. He is not.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. With Dems like these, who worries about Repugs?
They even use Repug tactics.

What is the point of you posting this, Nick? It certainly doesn't serve to advocate your favorite, and casts Dean in a good light by comparison.

You must be so desperate to seek the negative, you can't tell when it's not.
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