John Kerry

[Mr_X]

Here is some good information on John Kerry.

Q: Do you feel there's a problem with American intelligence-gathering?
A: Yes, there is a problem. It's a very serious one. The Bush Administration misled the American people with respect to intelligence related to Iraq. That's very serious and we need to get to the bottom of the White House intelligence gathering process during the lead-up to the Iraq war. We also need to change how we gather intelligence--to increase the focus on human intelligence gathering.

SENATOR KERRY FOUGHT TO SLASH INTELLIGENCE FUNDING BY AT LEAST $2.5 BILLION

1995: Proposed Bill Cutting $1.5 Billion From Intelligence Budget. Kerry introduced a bill that would “reduce the Intelligence budget by $300 million in each of fiscal years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000.”There were no cosponsors of Kerry’s bill, which never made it to the floor for a vote. (S. 1290, Introduced 9/29/95)1995: Voted To Slash FBI Funding By $80 Million. (H.R. 2076, CQ Vote #480: Adopted 49-41: R 9-40; D 40-1, 9/29/95, Kerry Voted Yea)

1994: Proposed Bill To Gut $1 Billion From Intelligence And Freeze Spending For Two Major Intelligence Programs. Kerry proposed a bill cutting $1 billion from the budgets of the National Foreign Intelligence Program and from Tactical Intelligence, and freezing their budgets. The bill did not make it to a vote, but the language was later submitted (and defeated – see below) as S. Amdt. 1452 to H.R. 3759. (S. 1826, Introduced 2/3/94)

1997: Kerry Questioned Growth Of Intelligence Community After Cold War. “Now that that struggle is over, why is it that our vast intelligence apparatus continues to grow even as Government resources for new and essential priorities fall far short of what is necessary? …” (Senator John Kerry Agreeing That Critic's Concerns Be Addressed, Congressional Record, 5/1/97, p. S3891)

When His Bill Stalled In Committee, Kerry Proposed $1 Billion Cut As Amendment Instead. Kerry proposed cutting $1 billion from the National Foreign Intelligence Program and Tactical Intelligence budgets, and freezing their budgets. The amendment was defeated, with even Graham, Lieberman and Braun voting against Kerry. (Amdt.. To H.R. 3759, CQ Vote #39: Rejected 20-75: R 3-37; D 17-38, 2/10/94, Kerry Voted Yea; Graham, Lieberman And Braun Voted Nay)

Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq.
H.J.Res. 114; Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. The administration would be required to report to Congress that diplomatic options have been exhausted before, or within 48 hours after military action has started. Every 60 days the president would also be required to submit a progress report to Congress.
Bill H.J.RES.114 ; vote number 2002-237 on Oct 11, 2002

Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo.
Vote to adopt a resolution to authorize the President to conduct military air operations and missile strikes in cooperation with NATO against Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro).
Bill S.Con.Res 21 ; vote number 1999-57 on Mar 23, 1999

Q: On March 19 Pres. Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq. Was that the right decision at the right time?
KERRY: I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him.

Q: Gov. Dean, you've criticized Sen. Kerry on the campaign trail saying he's tried to have it both ways on the issue of Iraq.

DEAN: I'm delighted to see Saddam Hussein gone. I appreciate that we have a strong military in this country, and I'd keep a strong military in this country. But this was the wrong war at the wrong time because we have set a new policy of preventive war in this country. Sooner or later we're going to see another country copy .

Q: But do you believe Kerry is still trying to have it both ways?

DEAN: That's not up to me to judge that. That's up to the voters to judge that, and I'm sure they will.

Source: Democratic Debate in Columbia SC May 3, 2003

Sources from the net: http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1067001/posts and http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/John_Kerry.htm


The facts speak for themselves. Kerry is a two faced man. You can't sugar coat it, and it is all documented. You think Kerry is a savior, your wrong. He is just same old politician. Greedy. Go Bush!

As for the name calling against bush, grow up. No sophistication what so ever. Oh, yeah, I could have posted want types of military equipment he voted against, but I don't want to damage you too much.

Well, it's been nice posting. I will be kicked off because I broke a rule. I voice a different opinion then everyone else. What is pathetic, is that you guys (democrats) are for the "little guy" and "free speech" what a joke. Mindless sheep. Let the flaming begin.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_X]

9. I posted the sources

Hey, wake up. this info is documented, and dare I say from a credible source. The United States government, i.e. bills.

[camero]

10. Where are the 2.6 million jobs?

Hmmmm. :D

[Mr_X]

124. Slowly

Rome wasn't built over night

[MercutioATC]

20. ???? Care to intelligently rebut the post or will you just call names?

What untruths did Mr_X post?

(on edit)

Aside from the "Go Bush!" BS?

[Mr_X]

28. Good

I don't care who's side you are on. You are a man or woman among us. No one has yet to refute. If you do, more power to you.

[MercutioATC]

I don't agree with you about Bush, but your Kerry links were accurate.

[Mr_X]

36. Thank you

Thank you very much. Someone who won't just sit there and call names.

[MercutioATC]

38. You DO realize that your "Go Bush!" is going to get you booted, right?

I'm in agreement with nearly everybody here that Bush is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country and I'll do what I can to see him ousted. I really don't understand how any thinking person (especially one signing up to die in a country that never posed any threat to us) can support him.

How do YOU rationalize it?

[Mr_X]

46. Because

Many people don't hear every thing that is going on in Iraq. All you hear is the negative. Plus look what Kerry said. He can't back away from what he said. In a nutshell, I signed the contract. Pure and simple.

[MercutioATC]

48. I have 2 cousins there. I hear plenty. Most of it negative.

I DO have feedback from people who are actually there and it's not good. Iraq is one F'd up situation. For your sake, I hope we get a Dem in office and start trying to rotate our troops home.

[lams712]

135. FYI: My repsonse was to the fact that this is a REPUBLICAN

who used THE FREE REPUBLIC AS A RESOURCE!!!!!!!!


WHY ARE WE ALLOWING FREEPERS HAVE SUCH FREEDOM TO POISON OUR FORUM????


Sure, he can bash Sen. Kerry, I mean it's a matter of public record that he voted for the War in Iraq, and voted for this thing and against that. WHO GIVES A FUCK???? He can SPREAD HIS PROPAGANDA ELSEWHERE.

We can also argue such subjective things such as, for example, whether "intelligence failures" mentioned in X's first point have a DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH IT'S BUDGET THAT SEN. KERRY VOTED TO REDUCE. So he's saying that only if the CIA had more $$$$ it would have somehow known that Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction when so many people already knew that. I submit that those said "failures" are the result a politically motivated Presidency that wanted to see what it wanted to see in order to make a case for a war it want way before 9/11.

I can't belive that this right-wing clown Mr._X is still on at DU and that there are so many good people here at DU that are actually taking up for this guy.

[Mr_X]

138. I explained this before

They got this from the government. So, THink about it.

[DS1]

52. *laughs* that response alone made me wish he'd stay

and I haven't even read what he has to say yet :hi:

[Demonaut]

77. Changed my mind, Im GONNA vote fo Kerry now....thanks!

[Mr_X]

79. No problem

Hope you like the consequences.

[Demonaut]

90. And do you have a valid reason for shrub to remain in office?

[camero]

2. This is pathetic

Like your boy is any better lying us into war. Enjoy your stay.

[Mr_X]

15. Info was bad

Hey, and like did you ever think about them burring them or sending them to other surrounding countries. Oh,and Kerry was trying to cut funding to the CIA, you would have known that if looked at my post. Kerry is two faced.

[camero]

19. Blah blah

blah blah blah blah. This ain't freeperville. We know better.

[HawkerHurricane]

49. Info was bad

The CIA said that the info was bad. So Bushco went in anyway. Then lied and said the CIA gave them bad info.

You are right, we don't get all the info about the situation on the ground in Iraq. They are covering up the bad news trying to make Bush look better.

[EXE619K]

3. Desperate people....

For desperate times.

Truly...sad days for America!

[Doomsayer13]

4. Goodbye

yeah, like the freerepublic is the bastion of free speech. Why don't you try explaining bush's "Free speech" zones that he installs wherever he goes? Oh, right, you're a Republican, consistency isn't your forte, I forgot.

[EXE619K]

5. Not all Republicans are bad.

Actually, my parents are long-time republicans.

But, The Bush admin is not republican...in any sense.

To quote my mother...."Bush and his admin are aliens, not Republicans".

They will certainly not vote for Bushies this year.

[Doomsayer13]

Nah, I have plenty of Republican friends

at least they are consistent. Bush is anything but.

[Mr_X]

7. Voting

What choice to they have? Ralf Nader, John Kerry, other third party canidates. The future looks so great.

[camero]

8. HAHA

This from a guy that thinks putting Big Macs together is manufacturing. LOL

[Mr_X]

12. Okay

I am in the process of getting my degree in history. There is nothing wrong with working at McDonalds.

[camero]

13. Good use for the BS degree

Yes, I would like fries with that, thanks.

[Mr_X]

21. ?

Are you practicing for your job interview tomorrow? I guess you have to go to an Ivy league college like Yale to be accredited. I thought Iwould never lower myself to your level, but I couldn't refuse.

[EXE619K]

11. Well....

One of the qualities that I respect from Republicans are Fiscal responsibility.

Bush, even fails on that part for me.

My mother, just the other day, said she'd vote for Nader before Bush.

Not that she likes Nader.

My mother is a staunch conservative. But, she says it will be a protest vote against her wishes.

So, maybe Nader running in the GE isn't such a bad thing afterall.

edit: betta start using that spell checker thing.

[Ksec]

6. Repukes never saw a weapons system they didnt love.

Billions and billions for the same planes and tanks and missiles. Thank God we have a Kerry or the whole budget would be for different ways to kill people. War mongers are sad people.

[Mr_X]

14. Good

M1abrams main battle tank, Appache Helicopter, and the patriot missle systemjust to name a few. We are using these today. Oh, and I will find myself in an Abrams in a few years.

[EXE619K]

16. hey...you gonna be a tanker?

Cool!

See, even though we might have differences in political ideology, we share something in common.

"Brave Rifles!"

[Ksec]

17. Like I said. Never saw one they didnt love

despite the many failures and the trillions theyve cost. Someone has to curb your insane deficit spending.

[madmax]

18. Go now - you don't want to miss the war. eom

[Ksec]

22. God knows chicken george Bush wont fight in one..LOL

[Mr_X]

27. ?

I am in the reserves. Would have went active, but was too young to sign without consent. Get my degree, then go active. Hooah.

[EXE619K]

30. That's great!

One recommendation though.....

If your gonna tranfer into 19K thing and have never been on a track, find yourself a nice brace(or a waist belt) so you won't "ding-up" your waist.

Knee-pads are great too....I'm suffering from almost ten-years of the "tankers knee"...it really sucks!

[HawkerHurricane]

57. Why waste the time getting the degree?

If you are in a university, you could go now. Go now, and give some poor soldier a break. Take your turn on the line, then go get your degree.

One thing I've noticed about Republicans. They are always talking about how they'll go 'later, after I do something else'. I just don't see them dropping what they are doing and going now, while they are needed.

[camero]

60. He's just like Cheney

Didn't he "have better things to do" when it was time to go to Vietnam?

[Mr_X]

62. I will

I can put my self on a list to go. You happy. I have been thinking about for a month.

[metisnation]

74. Thank You

For your service to our country and questioning authority. I plan to vote for whoever does more for veterans benifits...this is my main issue.

:kick:

[HawkerHurricane]

81. How long have you been 18?

I can understand about your parents not signing, that isn't your fault. But you've been in college, what, since September? You've been 18 since then, at least. So, why didn't you sign up earlier? If you believe in the Operation Iraqi Liberation, you should have signed up when you were eligible, not put it off until convenient... put it off long enough and the war will be over.

[Mr_X]

100. No

Last October I was ready to sign up with a Tank unit. Age 17. got rejected needed a waiver. National guard was taking too long. go the waiver in two weeks. Ran in to another problem. Now in the Reserves since April. Training was until November. Short abbreviated history.

[camero]

117. That's funny

Why were you rejected? I wonder?

[Mr_X]

120. You want to know?

Vecoseal Veins In my nuts and for taking medication in elementary school. Happy.

[camero]

123. Hilarious

Eat too much glue? :D

[Mr_X]

126. No,

But the you carry your self makes me wonder.

[camero]

132. Hmmmm

Musta been the crack then. :D

[camero]

23. How bout a Hummer?

Maybe that's better.

[mountainvue]

26. History major

"Apache" is one p. eom

[Mr_X]

29. Sorry

I am sorry for not spelling one word right. The world is coming to an end. My God what have I done. God help us all.

[camero]

32. Bush is resident

God help us all.

[DillyLib]

35. I am going to be banned anyway

so let me tell you something you young stupid SOB:

You are just playing around at your stupid fantasies of "war."

You are the type of dumb mf that is going to crack under pressure the fucking minute you have to look at a person whose chest is blown open.

You have no goddamned clue what you are even talking about.

God help your ass; no one else can.

[Mr_X]

39. No

I don't have fantasies of war. I want to serve my country. If you have any problem with that. You probably have served. If you have I commend you. If you haven't, then you should take a good look at what you have said.

[DillyLib]

45. How old are you son

You might want to ask Daddy to go ahead and start putting money away for your headshrinker bills because you are going to need them.

You don't have a fucking clue other than watching some crap like Full Metal Jacket with your fraternity brothers.

I dont give a goddamned about your Presidents tax crap and all that...but, he sure as fuck isnt interested in protecting dumbfucks like you from your own shit.

[Mr_X]

51. Please

Could you answer a question tactfully? I don't belong to a frat. If I go, I go. Period. I have never thought I would be rambo. I just want to serve my country. My dad doesn't make enough money for a head shrinker

[camero]

55. Serving your country to steal other's resources

Is not serving your country. It is abetting a crime.

[Mr_X]

63. Say

Say that to the others. I dare you.

[camero]

65. I do

All the time. Thank you.

In the words of your criminal hero...Bring it on!

[Thtwudbeme]

76. Hey, I say it all the time

Argue with me.

I was a paramedic on a fire department: see my post below.

I am now back in college full time and hoping to get a job with the VA as a minister (Episcopalian)

I am very pro-military/veteran.

What the Selected Resident Bush is doing to the veterans benefits is so horrible, that you should be ashamed to even consider voting for this man.

Now, what would you like to say to me, young man?

[Demonaut]

87. You missed "missile" too, but who's really paying attention

Needless to say these arguments that Kerry made were in response to the end of the Cold War, Peace dividends, now if history is your major then son I suggest you'd better learn the lessons of past empires. bty, ever hear of an airliner being shot down by an Abrahms? and does a suicide bomber care about the armed bus marshal?

[Mr_X]

94. sorry

I'm not perfect. Darn it.

[Demonaut]

99. humility becomes you

[DillyLib]

24. Flame me.

I don't give a fuck who the Dem nominee is, I will vote for him.

Your man Bush sucks a big fat one.

7 trillion dollar debt.

Lying to get the US in a war. Thousands of innocent people dead.

Suck my dick...you wanna argue that mofo?

[LoneStarLiberal]

25. I'll Take Kerry and All The Above Over Whorege Bush

As in all politics, which set of odiousness is more palpable to you? To some people like you, Bush and his corporate whoring, God-bothering, Napolean complex with its baggage trail of Enron coziness, closed door energy policy, willful misinterpretation of the Bible and the United Nations resolutions are preferable to Kerry and his baggage trail.

Unfortunately, I think you'll find that most people around here will take Kerry and his trail any day over Bush and his trail.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

31. Free Republic is one of your sources?

Wow.

[Mr_X]

33. Think

Don't look at the web site. Look at the info on it. Go to a library that contains government docs. They are usually on a college or university campus. If you want I will go Monday and look through the Files.

[POed_Ex_Repub]

34. I wouldn't bother

I have a feeling you won't be able to post by then.

O8)

[VOX]

43. Zot! Zot! The Viking Kitties! Zot! Zot!

Damn, it's not working.

That is what would greet any one of us if we posted our thoughts over at Fresno's finest.

So you think your ticket shouldn't be canceled here?

[EXE619K]

44. Mr. X....

From one former Tank vet to a future tank vet(I'm not trying to convert you or anything here).....

Check out Dean's issues.

Dean's a fiscal conservative, and yes, liberals have a tendency to over-spend. You can check out Dean's record in Vermont. There were many cases where he defied the liberals and cut taxes for average Americans.

Dean is a different type of Democrat. A Common-Sense Dem.

Considering that we're still on the ballot...and if fiscal responsibility is important to you, check him out.

If you're willing to go that far, go to some of the Meet-Ups for Dean.
I'm an Independent and there are many Republicans there that are against social liberalism, but, Fiscal conservatives.

Hey, you can't have everything you want, so might as well choose the guy who stands for something(if not all things).

If you wanna get on that track, we gotta be able to afford it first. The same thing with social programs. Right?

I guarantee that you'll like what you'll see.

Dean Dems aren't the usual Dems of the past.

[Rabrrrrrr]

37. No, you'll be kicked off because you're an ignorant Shrub-cock-sucking

shit pile.

Sorry, but, as they say, buh bye, freeper filth idiot moran.

Oh, and while I have your attention, brains can be gotten by, just as an example, reading something other than Anne Coulter or other rightwing propaganda books. Go grab a good, decent, intellectual book, perhaps "Moby Dick" or "Out of Africa" or "Call of the Wild" or "Frankenstein" or "David Copperfield", and expand your mind and join the human race.

Or, remain republican.

It's up to you.

[MercutioATC]

41. Has it ever occurred to you that that's "freeper" language?

Jesus! "cock-sucking shit pile"???

Language like that makes us sound frighteningly like them, doesn't it?

[Rabrrrrrr]

50. You are correct, and I stand properly chastised

But I stand by my assessment, even though I wish I had toned it down a bit... but the dude said he loves Shrub, so come on, what's he doing here?

[MercutioATC]

53. I agree with you on that...I just don't want us to become like them...

...even if it's just a heated reaction.

I feel the way you do about Bush supporters, especially here.

Peace :)

[Thtwudbeme]

54. Hey. I thought it was funny as hell

You know what? Sometimes one just HAS to cuss.

Stephanie

[Mr_X]

42. I haven't

I have never read a book by these "right winged propgandists". I am telling the truth. I like to form my opinions without help.

[POed_Ex_Repub]

47. Which is why you cite Free Republic, that bastion of open mindedness

uhm... uh... :wtf:

[Mr_X]

56. ?

Ifound the info on the site, but look where they found it. I don't think you would find that info on John Kerry's site. Think about it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

61. Well, you're certainly doing it without the help of facts, logic,

and intellgience, Maybe you haven't read any rightwing books, but you sure know the de-intellectualized party line of the republicans.

You say you are for the republicans, and that you think Shrub, a known AWOL poor-hating gay-bashing stupid piece of arrogant shit who let 9-11 happen and allowed my office to be destroyed because it furthered his Haliburton- and Carlysle Group-based agenda, and who's nothing but a sad little toad with no skills and no ability form coherent thoughts or speak intelligently, and who has no htought for anyone or anything that isn't him or a video game, is the person to have as president only proves your utter inability to form a DECENT and SENSIBLE opinion.

I suggest you begin to use facts and actual, real data, and attemp to assemble them and form opinions from them in a logical, sensible, and intelligent way, instead of a Rush Limbaugh way.

[Mr_X]

67. There are facts

There are facts to disprove the AWOL claim. You might want to look at what you are saying. You are calling me stupid, and attacking a group of different people with different views. I did use facts.

[Rabrrrrrr]

107. Whatever

The problem with debating shitheads is that they consistently, with every statement, reframe the argument, usually into some new realm of jingoistic science-fiction.

I called you on the carpet, and then you come back with "fact to disprove AWOL" when, in fact, I'd never mentioned AWOL at all.

Do you people see the shitiocy of your methodology? And I ask that seriously, because I've often wondered if you people pull this bullshit tactic consciously, in order to avoid having to show your ignorance, or unconsciously, because you don't realize it's not a logically plausable debate tactic?

The facts are, Shrub is a liar. Yeah, you can come back and call Clinton a liar, and you'd be true, since he lied at least once, but that's just another shitiocy argument. Shrub lies consistently, with pretty much every statement that comes from his mouth, and his lies actually lead to the deaths of countless innocents, and our own military personnel. You might think that having American poor and minorities killed is no big deal, they're just brown people, or poor people, or shitpeople, or whatever classist/racist category you put them in, but I am against it, because I don't think the lives of our minorities are worth the oil that will be pumped and which will earn your HERO GOD george Shrub the Ignorant untold countless riches.

Now, I know you'll want to counter my argument that Shrub lies by saying something like "But Enron didn't tuck away as much as money as North Korea" and you'll think you've won the argument, but intelligent people, like second graders who paid attention, will know it's a bunch of bullshit.

I'm sorry, I don't mind debating and dialoguing with people who disagree with me, but I *DO* mind debating and dialoguing with people who can't even formulate a response to a question at hand and who must resport to deception, inconsistency, or irrelevancy, in order to appear to have some kind of foundational leg on which to stand. And I also have little time for people who think that hiding behind the flag, or nationalism, or jingoistic Rush Limbaugh debate points, is the same as actually speaking intelligently and having a valid, reasoned opinion on something.

Rabrrrrrr: "So, Mr_X, how do you feel about the huge number of American casualities in Iraq?"

Mr_X: "Clinton's penis"

[Mr_X]

114. What!!!!

Here it is. You said it,not me.


You say you are for the republicans, and that you think Shrub, a known AWOL

I don't think that I want to be Clintoon's Penis.

[Rabrrrrrr]

125. I didn't say that at all

And your post only reinforces what I said - you people can't offer a decent debate, because you constantly reframe everything into some bullshit new 'idea' that makes it look like you are intelligent while cloaking, except to smart people, the depths of your utter ignorance.

that might work for kindergarten-level educated bozos, but it doesn't work for others.

Notice what you did here, because it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I have never, ever, in my life said anything positive about Shrub. In fact, I hate the man so much that in the whole time he's been "president" I've not said his name, or spelled his name, properly. And in my post, I berated him, and insulted him.

But you, like your parallel Rush Limbaugh, simply come back and say that I have said I am obviusly for the republicans, and you also added, and this just adds to the stupidity argument of you people, that not only am I for the republicans, but I also "think Shrub, a known AWOL". It's a sentence that makes no sense, but the Limbaugh listeners out there, who wouldn't know a coherent thought from a corroded alternator, will think your argument is GENIUS.

Sorry, but I, like most all DUers, see through the bullshit. We know that your emperor has no clothes, and we know that you have no brain with which to entertain thought of any marginally relevant ability.

[Mr_X]

127. Hmmmm

Look at your own post. Post 61. What? What?

[Rabrrrrrr]

129. Can you read? Or did you go through Pat Robertson brand home-schooling?

How in the hell could you possibly come up with the idea that, in that long tirade against Shruib and republicans that is post 61m, that I am pro republican?

your response is the kind of the lie-based, bullshit, fukcing out of control moronish intellectually perverse shit that I associate with you and the republican party.

How can you people lie so blatantly, and still live with yourselves?

regarding my post to which you just responded, in whcih I mentioned this kind of bullshit tactic of yours - this just proves it again. I said, in post 61, a VEHEMENT anti-republican, anti-Shrub, tirade, and you have the audacity to come with your Rush Limbaugh-trained ability to LIE, to BALDFACED LIE, and say, "So, looks like you support the republicans."

Well, fuck you. I'm tired of debating a moran. Either you make a coherent, non-lie-based argument, or I'm not respionding. Liar liar pants on fire. Cripes.

[Mr_X]

133. AWOL BRAIN

ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE. PERIOD. I do support some of the Republicans and certain policies. Not all. You have a great use of language. You have the intellect of a 6 year old.

[Rabrrrrrr]

134. So you're not going to offer a coherent or logical argument?

Okay then, I'm out of this argument. It's obviuos you have nothing to stand on, or you would actually address my issues. "AWOL BRAIN" means absolutely nothing. "ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE. PERIOD." means absolutely nothing. And they mean nothing becuase you offer no commentary or contextual apparatus in which to place them. I'm sure if you said that to a freeper, they';d think you'd made the rgument of the century. But to anyone with an ability to read at a higher level than, say, "See Dick run", you only show you utter ignorance and utter lack of ability to use the brain that God gave you.

So, I'm done with this thread.

Cheers!

Good luck in prison, or whatever republican hell you have created for yourself.

[Rabrrrrrr]

136. Earlier today, there was a thread about "should there be an idiot tax"

I think you, Mr_X, are proof positive that there should be. Our governmental cofferes would increase drastically if you had to pay the idiot tax for each of your posts.

It's a shame that the aprty you hate, the democrats, are the party that is the one who would actually vote AGAINST such an act, since it would be totally to the dems benefit to have it.

But we bvelieve in the sacntity of life, and in fairness and rights for all people.

Interesting, isn't it, that it's the republican party that is the party of lies and duplicity?

Yeah, I think so.

[Mr_X]

139. hmmm

one of the rules of this site is... just wait.

[Mr_X]

140. Here it is

This is a "big tent" message board. We welcome a wide range of progressive opinion. You will likely encounter many points of view here that you disagree with.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

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Free speech. Not.

[Mr_X]

141. Apply

You apply more than me.

[Mr_X]

137. Here

9-11 cite your sources on it.
Bill Clinton:
President Bill Clinton ordered Osama's assets frozen in 1998, but none were ever found. Clinton also authorized Osama's arrest and/or assassination while in office; one assassination attempt with cruise missiles in August 1998 failed, while killing 19 other people. The U.S. never apologized for these killings, since the attack was directed at what they considered to be a meeting of terrorists. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him.

President Bill Clinton ordered Osama's assets frozen in 1998, but none were ever found. Clinton also authorized Osama's arrest and/or assassination while in office; one assassination attempt with cruise missiles in August 1998 failed, while killing 19 other people. The U.S. never apologized for these killings, since the attack was directed at what they considered to be a meeting of terrorists. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him.

What? 9-11 cite your sources on it.
Bill Clinton:
President Bill Clinton ordered Osama's assets frozen in 1998, but none were ever found. Clinton also authorized Osama's arrest and/or assassination while in office; one assassination attempt with cruise missiles in August 1998 failed, while killing 19 other people. The U.S. never apologized for these killings, since the attack was directed at what they considered to be a meeting of terrorists. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him.

President Bill Clinton ordered Osama's assets frozen in 1998, but none were ever found. Clinton also authorized Osama's arrest and/or assassination while in office; one assassination attempt with cruise missiles in August 1998 failed, while killing 19 other people. The U.S. never apologized for these killings, since the attack was directed at what they considered to be a meeting of terrorists. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him.

What?
9-11 cite your sources on it.
Bill Clinton:
President Bill Clinton ordered Osama's assets frozen in 1998, but none were ever found. Clinton also authorized Osama's arrest and/or assassination while in office; one assassination attempt with cruise missiles in August 1998 failed, while killing 19 other people. The U.S. never apologized for these killings, since the attack was directed at what they considered to be a meeting of terrorists. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him.

President Bill Clinton ordered Osama's assets frozen in 1998, but none were ever found. Clinton also authorized Osama's arrest and/or assassination while in office; one assassination attempt with cruise missiles in August 1998 failed, while killing 19 other people. The U.S. never apologized for these killings, since the attack was directed at what they considered to be a meeting of terrorists. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to his apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

[TheWhitneyBrown]

40. I think this post deserves an intelligent reply.

First, I could point out a few quotes from Bush that were equally two faced, perhaps something about nation building for example, and how he was against it, and now we are doing it on a scale not seen since after WWII, but, oh, sorry, that was before 9/11, and "the world has changed since 9/11" as we often hear.
And anway the topic is Kerry, who introduced a bill to slash 1 billion dollars from intelligence budgets in 1997. I don't blame him for that, in fact I applaud it. And why?
Because I think the CIA, and NSA, and also, if you must know, the FBI, are grossly over funded and even more grossly overrated. Just thinking of Hanson, and Jewell, and Wen Ho Lee, and on, and on.
And unlike most Americans, especially those of Republican stripe, I don't cower in fear and hand over my civil liberties at the mention of Osama or Saddam. They don't scare me.
I've never been audited by Saddam or Osama for one. I've never been wiretapped by them either. I've never been pulled over and illegally searched by a terrorist come to think of it.
So, no, unlike you Republican chickens, I don't feel so scared I have to send 200,000 troops or spend my life's savings to give me some tiny little bit more of security.
It's no big thing, terrorism. And even if it was, I wouldn't give up my civil liberties to fight it. I'd rather fight the cops.

[Mr_X]

58. Okay

Sitethe source. Oh, and I posted this because of some of his comments.

[TheWhitneyBrown]

71. Sources

I assume you meant 'cite the source', and again I am assuming you mean where did Bush say he was against nation building. He said it during the last debate with Gore, and then he made it a big issue afterwards.

Here is the quote from the Washington Post. You can find dozens of other references by googling "Bush +nation building" It was a big issue in the last campaign.

washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 26, 2003; 8:08 PM


Speaking to a cheering crowd in Chattanooga, Tenn., one day before the Nov. 7, 2000, election, George W. Bush repeated a line that had by then been a standard part of the stump speech for many, many months--and one that now seems, in the face of looming U.S. military action in Iraq, quite contradictory.

"Let me tell you what else I'm worried about: I'm worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our view of the military is for our military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place."



Well, for a President that took us into an elective war, those are strong words. Two faced, but strong.

[MercutioATC]

59. MESSAGE TO DU MEMBERS HERE:

Why aren't we using this opportunity to:

1) attempt to convert a young Republican, or

2) learn how young Republicans think

Frankly, I have NO idea how anybody (especially somebody signed up to die) could support Bush's reckless policies. Aren't you the least bit curious??

[POed_Ex_Repub]

64. I can answer that

1) Does he look like he wants to be converted?

2) I know how young republicans think, check my name.

[MercutioATC]

68. K, I stand corrected. I just prefer to look for positive solutions.

He seems relatively well-spoken. I think that a real dialogue would be more productive to him (and us) than all of this name-calling.

[EXE619K]

66. No, we shouldn't convert him...

I believe every man should follow his heart and decide for himself.

Mr. X is smart enough to know that he's a clear thinking young man of great stature and no matter what his decisions are, he will make our country proud some day.

Good for you Mr.X!

It takes a lot of courage to do what you have done tonight!

:hi:

[oxymoron]

69. Uh...yeah

It takes a helluva lot of courage to post anonymously on a public forum. :eyes:

[MercutioATC]

70. Read my Post #68...

I didn't mean to sound condescending, I just wanted to encourage a real conversation rather than all of this hostile BS in response to an articulate question.

[EXE619K]

75. I know where yar coming from Merc.

Sound minds think alike!

:thumbsup:

[Maat]

72. I used to work in Aerospace 20 years ago.

If Kerry voted not to increase budgets for certain weapons/aircraft...he probably had a damn good reason. We had enough of them....the particular piece of equipment had problems. And as for the Intelligence Budget..he held them accountable...I have no problem with that.

Young man, I want Bush and Co. out of office because they are urinating on the Constitution, Bill of Rights and 200 years of case law. In short, they are busy mocking what made this Nation unique and great. I want the America I came of age in...for my daughter. Freedom to assemble...freedom to read and speak freely. And I want equal protection for all. Grow up. There is more to life than destructive toys.

[Thtwudbeme]

73. No, I am not in the least bit curious and I will tell you why

I was a paramedic on a fire department for most of my adult life. I met a lot of gung-ho types just like this clown that had never even seen a dead body except for a movie, or a funeral home makeover of one of their relatives.

They sat around and rented movies like "Backdraft," and fantasized about women on the big trucks, and saving little kids.

This guy is playing "weekend warrior" and was probably ROTC. He has an American Flag that sits out in the rain, and it makes him feel all warm 'n fuzzy inside to think of Nobly Serving His Country....I bet he can sing "Proud to be an American" by Lee Greenwood all the way through.

Drives a Ford Pickup.

I could keep going.

But, no, I am not curious. These guys are a dime a dozen. They are the reason that Bush is popular, and they see Laura as either their mother, or ideal future mother of their children.

It's really sick.

What I am curious about is how long it's going to take him to wake up.

Stephanie

[Mr_X]

78. SICK

I lost all respect for you. You are a sick individual that thinks being a paramedic makes you knowledgeable in soldiering. I AM NOT IN ROTC. I DON'T LEE GREEN WOOD OR THAT SONG THAT MUCH. I DO DRIVE AFFORD TRUCK. I DO GET WARM FUZZY FEELINGS ABOUT THE FLAG. MY MOTHER ISN'T LAURA BUSH. HER NAME IS, OH, I CAN'T TELL YOU. I'M GLAD IT ISN'T YOU. Hope you get the drift. I like to hold intelligent conversations, but you don't deserve it. I should have not fed you.

[camero]

well, before you go

You might want to take a look at this.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terrorism/doc3722.html

This war is not about terrorism at all.

[Thtwudbeme]

82. And exactly what did I say that was sick?

You sound like a young wanna-be soldier.

Young and DUMB wanna be soldier.

You are the one that wants to go kill people to help George W. Bush make his Halliburton buddies richer, pal...not me. I want to be there to help the young twerps like yourself heal when you get home.

You are calling me sick?

For what reason? Because I mentioned a Lee Greenwood song? A Ford Pickup truck? Laura Bush?

Maybe you could explain yourself, dear.

[Mr_X]

86. OKAY

For those Accusations. You have not been in my shoes and I have not been in others. Making assumptions is dangerous. I don't want to kill people. If you are training to be a minister, you need to get your priorities strait.

[Thtwudbeme]

89. My priorities are straight dear

I spent years attempting to heal people; now I am in school for years to attempt to do more.

I appreciate veterans honey. Your President that you are willing to fight-and kill- for does not.

Now, what is sick about my post?

[MercutioATC]

84. Mr_X, you probably won't be here long, but I want you to take this away

from this "discussion":

Some people might be inflexible (on both sides of the fence) but there WERE people here....*gasp* Democrats....that were willing to talk about the issues in an open manner. Hell, I'd like to be able to talk to 10 or 20 young Bush supporters a week, with the hope that 1 or 2 of them would begin to at least question things and perhaps take something back to their friends.

We're 180 degrees on politics, but we both seem to be interested in the dialogue. The dialogue is what's important.

[camero]

85. Even some conservatives see what he is doing

http://amconmag.com/3_1_04/cover.html


Fear is what Perle and his co-author David Frum are peddling to stampede America into serial wars. Just such fear-mongering got us into Iraq, though, we have since discovered, Iraq had no hand in 9/11, no ties to al-Qaeda, no weapons of mass destruction, no nuclear program, and no plans to attack us. Iraq was never “the clear and present danger” the authors insist she was.


Not the way to go pal.

[MercutioATC]

80. Well, I don't think that approach will get us anywhere.

I don't care if he listens to country music and drives a Ford pickup...Bush policies have hurt him just as much as they've hurt the rest of us. THIS is the important message. I think we should spread it whenever we can.

[Thtwudbeme]

83. What policy?

I said I wasn't curious, and explained why.

I am telling you; I listened to this weekend warrior crap for years; if you want to see a great literary example of it, read "Gone With the Wind..." All those young men signing up to kick Yankee ass...this is no different.

[MercutioATC]

88. Again, you're making a generalization based on a few posts.

YOU think you have him completely figured out. I'm not making that assumption. I think the dialogue is a healthy thing (for both sides) and I think that dismissing people who may have different political beliefs rather that talking to them does us no credit.

[Thtwudbeme]

92. OK, so I'm making a generalization

so what?

The kid came here to cause a ripping flamer thread.

I just called it like I see it. You know, sometimes generalizations and cliches aren't that far from the truth. Something I said freaked him out, eh?

[MercutioATC]

98. "The kid" came here posting what we've all seen here before, except

for the "Go Bush!" thing.

I just think this is completely the wrong way to address things.

[Thtwudbeme]

101. Well, then I'll put you in charge of the warm fuzzies

tonight.

I'll take my turn at the niceties next month, OK?

[MercutioATC]

103. It's a deal :)

Hey, our methods may differ, but we're on the same side...


Peace

:)

[Mr_X]

106. Cool

If you are leaving, I commend you. YOu and ex-19kilo were tactful and were great. The rest were just wrong. I was wrong too, for responding to them, but I can't just sit there and let them destroy my character. Thank you. We can agree to disagree.

[MercutioATC]

111. Peace to you too, Mr_X. I hope you'll at least LOOK at the other side

of the argument based on a couple of responses you've seen here. You're obviously capable of making a case for what you believe...lemme know when you want to use your powers for good...


;)

[Mr_X]

115. Okay

I am using my powers for good. Thanks I will try and post again.

[Mr_X]

118. I

Have I have been to john kerry's web site, and other democratic web sites.

[camero]

121. Yet you get your marching orders

From Pinky and the Brain(Bush and Cheney). Go figure.

[MercutioATC]

128. At least you're exposing yourself to the alternatives.

Come to whatever conclusion you're comfortable with, just make an informed decision.

I know we can't ALL be Democrats, but I really think that, given an open mind and some facts, a lot of people who currently support Bush would begin to question their support...especially when they saw how his foreign policy had made us an international pariah and his domestic policy had made us a LESS safe and LESS prosperous nation.

If you feel differently, so be it. I'm just happy you chose to look at both sides.

[camero]

112. You did that quite well enough on your own

We just give people the rope to hang themselves with. :D

[Mr_X]

116. hmmmm

You're talking about most of the people on this site. Right.

[camero]

119. It's nice to have a laugh

Keep the comedy coming, ok? :D

[Mr_X]

122. You got it.

help me with some material. will ya

[camero]

130. Sure

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1140294

If President Bush would be honest with the American people, this is
what he would tell us about his "accomplishments" while in office.

Just so you know:
I attacked and took over 2 countries
I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.
I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history
(not =easy!).
I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in
any 12 month period.
I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the
stock market.
I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days
on vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's,
but I did).
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided
over the worst security failure in US history.
I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any
president in US history.
In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their
jobs.


The Bush Admin is the funniest joke.

[Mr_X]

102. What freaked me?

I'm just trying to show people things they don't hear in the news. I'm not stupid. I know that a person with different views going on to a website with different views from their own, would generate this.

[Thtwudbeme]

110. I don't think you are stupid

I think you are young and dumb.

Here's the deal son: you can go to a conservative website and sit around there and post the "yeah! We are going to war for the US!! Go GWB!!!" all you want to.

You can dig up stuff on Kerry all night.

But at the end of the night it's hard to escape the truth, and that is that we (the US) went to war for a lie. We killed innocent Iraqis that were just trying to live pretty much the same way we are...for nothing. Zero. There were no weapons of mass destruction; Saddam was contained already.

In the morning, we have nothing but dead bodies and the shame that we didn't stop what was happening. We will have young men and women, that were much like yourself coming home to a life of nightmares and illnesses....and benefits that have been taken away by the man that sent them there.

That's the bottom line.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Your choice.

I don't care what you dig on on Kerry. I am voting against Bush and for the candidate with the best chance of beating that horrible man.

Good luck with your military career.

[camero]

93. She's probably seen people die. So have I.

I can understand her reaction to somebody who wants to go to war. I don't think we're going to convert him.

Even though I do wish he would come to his senses.

[Mr_X]

96. Hmmmm..

Did I say I love war? No one loves war. If you do you are sick.

[Thtwudbeme]

97. No, you love the war toys

When you actually see a war, you will cry to come home.

[Mr_X]

104. ?

How do you know? You don't. Do you ever think. I am different from you. Sure I have fears. Just about everyone has. But I'm not going to run.

[camero]

105. Nice try pal

Noone said you loved war. But if you want to go I won't try to stop you. Only tell you what your crime is.

[Mr_X]

109. Let me find it.

[Mr_X]

91. expert

I read a book. I listened for years. Yep I was wrong you're amn expert. Dr. Full of Crap

[Thtwudbeme]

95. You might want to try

reading more than one book.

I am not a Dr.

But, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once.

[Mr_X]

108. I was

Implying about gone with the wind and your response.

[camero]

113. Book suggestions

Les Miserables, Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens

[Mr_X]

131. WELL

It is late and I need some sleep. I skipped studying tonight. Oh well. Study tomorrow. It was good.