Nader is partially responsible for the deaths of 540 Americans

[php1949]

Nader is already an accomplice in the deaths of 540 American soldiers. I guess that isn't enough. He wants more Americans to die. Nader is also an accomplice in the violent deaths of over 10,000 Iraqi women and children. He is to blame for making the election close enough for the three stooges of law to install the chickenhawk in the White House to protect the corporations who dangle him on a string and send young men and women to die for oil. I hope when Ralph Nader goes to sleep, he has nightmares about the 540 American soldiers who would be alive today if he wasn't such a self-absorbed moron.

[JailForBush]

1. Oh, puhLEEZ!

The Democratic Party is a far bigger accomplice than Nader!

I decided that Ralph Nader is corrupt - but I had to find out by myself, because the Democrats were too busy acting like four-year-olds to do some honest research and expose him. In the meantime, it was hard for many of us to resist voting for Nader because Al Gore was such a bum.

I snubbed Al Gore specifically because of his links to the "Education Mafia" - with some especially strong ties right here in Seattle. After the election, I discovered that Ralph Nader is linked to the Seattle School Board, too.

But I NEVER would have learned that from any Democrats, because they don't have a clue about education.

[Darranar]

2. So are the Democrats...

who don't move to stop the System's restriction of acceptable political views, therefore limiting the anti-war voices to weak arguments and radical rhetoric.

That is most of them.

[joeybee12]

3. I don't necessarily disagree, however, there are a heck of a lot of

Democrats who share the blame and the guilt.

[Bushbetrays]

4. bit of a stretch

I know you are trying to make a point - a valid one - but isn't blaming Nader for American soldiers dying a bit of a stretch?

[php1949]

7. I don't think so. It all a matter of simple math

If he didn't run in 2000 (I think he had 35,000 votes), Gore would have won, there wouldn't have been an Iraq war. But the point is that if he does it again and Bush wins a close election, how many more will die?

[Bushbetrays]

10. Blame Tennessee

Using your simple Math we could also blame Tennessee for not carrying Al Gore therefore causing him to lose to Bush therefore taking us to war and losing American lives. So what do we do? Kick Tennessee out of the United States? My point is ... there are many many factors that contributed to us going to war. We could blame Al Gore for losing, people for not voting, the U.S. Supreme Court, ....... you get my point?

[Toxictoaster]

13. He got 2.7 MILLION votes

nationwide, 2.6% of the total. He helped get Bush elected--hands down. He didn't blow it himself, but he sure as hell didn't help matters. Just a fact, take it or leave it.

As for the "many factors" arguement--true, there are a ton of factors that influence every election. But few exert the nationwide draw on votes, financing, volunteer manpower, etc. of a semi-popular, competing third-party candidate who leans towards one of the others politically.

How much in additional resources of all kinds would have went to Gore had Ralph decided to simply play the gadfly and speak publicly, but stay above the fray? And, with that additional 2.6%, would it have been tougher for the Supreme Court to declare a Resident?

Who knows, but do we really need to see a replay of all this?

[php1949]

14. Well said

That's what I wast trying to say, in my neanderthal way.

[Name removed]

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[php1949]

17. I belong to a third party

But this election is a matter of life and death for America's future. I can't believe Nader would help Bush destroy our grandchildren's future, just to get his message out. Look at what Sharpton and Kucinich have accomplished without helping Bush get re-elected.

[Toxictoaster]

19. True on all counts.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have them. In fact, I voted for Nader in 2000, and didn't start really regretting it until about a year and a half ago. I don't think Nader's some evil guy for what he did then--I think he's an idiot for what he's doing now.

I like the European model for elections far better than ours, where third parties who get significant numbers of votes get representation in the legislative bodies. I'd love a move to that system. However, under PRESENT circumstances, I think 1) Dems and their progressive allies all need to get on the same page; 2) the fact that Ralph may run only proves he is a senile, out of touch old guy; and 3) people who would vote for Nader (or anyone else, for that matter) rather than the Dem nominee are on a childlike search for ideological perfection that simply does not exist, nor will it ever. Their search blinds them to the reality that winning, right now, is step number one, after which we can get into all sorts of debates and disagreements amongst ourselves.

[no name no slogan]

24. What about those 30,000 Florida Dems who voted for BUSH?

Don't you think THEY might have also played a role in this?

Cripes people, Gore did NOT lose 2000 because of Nader-- he lost it because he was a piss-poor candidate who let himself be defined by the right-wing, and because of the SCOTUS-Florida recount BS.

Furthermore, it is BUSH and his GOP and PNAC cronies who started this war-- NOT NADER. But if you're still content to blame Gore's shortcomings on Nader, then go right ahead.

I'm quite sure that will further alienate any other disaffected voters who voted for Nader in 2000 as a protest vote, too.

[Bushbetrays]

25. EXACTLY

Well Said.

[Doomsayer13]

26. DINOS who would've voted for Bush anways

or are you suggesting Gore have campaigned further to the right to get them?

[david_vincent]

5. "Democracy kills"

Oh well. I still like it.

[mike_c]

6. So is John Kerry....

Much more so, in fact, because he had a chance to use his vote to prevent those deaths, but chose to vote in favor of them.

[Name removed]

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[zulchzulu]

8. No he isn't...and Kerry isn't either

Nader helped get Chimpy in indirectly. That doesn't make him or Kerry responsible for Bush lying to Congress, the World, the American people and not going to the UN to get a multinational force to go into Iraq as a last resort after UN inspections were exhausted.

[Demobrat]

9. Not as responsible as Kerry and Edwards.

It's not like he had a vote.

[mhr]

12. That's A Stretch - One Man Is Repsonsible, GW Bush

eom

[Name removed]

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[php1949]

18. I think you were looking for the Free Republic forum

http://www.freerepublic.com/

And what about the 130-plus nations that are worse than Iraq was? What the matter? They have no oil?

[Name removed]

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[php1949]

21. I've been listening to the same question for a year

It's a bullshit question to justify Bush's illegal war. There are also mass graves in Africa, South America, Asia and other Middle Eastern nations. Why Iraq? Why now? Why didn't Bush tell the truth, that is, he had planned to attack Iraq before he was even un-elected president? If he had told the truth, would the democrats voted for his un-consitutional war powers act?

[Name removed]

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[GreenNADER]

22. Nader is partially responsible for the deaths of 540 Americans

the only one responsible is the weak senate, they let chimpy go kill 100'000's of innocent people, in the name of his WAR on TERROR.

[php1949]

27. Reply to all: let me see if I've got this straight...

You guys have no problem with Nader jumping into the race and taking 3 or 4 percenages from the democrat in a close election? All of the possible nominees are worse than another four years of Bush? Is that about right with you all?

[Name removed]

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[Sorry.]

29. Gore would have gone to war too

who says that Gore wouldn't have gone to war as well? He's to the right of Tony Blair and was Vice President whilst Clinton was bombing the shit out of Iraq.

[Gingergal]

35. Guess you didn't keep up. Gore came out and strongly condemned

going to war before bush launched the war. He was the first of them all to oppose it.

[Nadero4]

30. Yee-Haww!

GO RALPH GO!!!!

Hey Democrats... Here's some advice.

Why don't you RESPECT DEMOCRACY instead of trying to censor everyone's vote and LIMIT DEBATE. Quit being totalitarians and EMBRACE DIVERSITY!!!!

NADER is just part of the wonderful tapestry of freedom and democracy. Love your country... Be PRO-CHOICE... Support FREE ELECTIONS... ACCEPT the NADER candidacy.

[Zynx]

31. If you vote for Nader instead of the Democrats, you are risking all you

hold dear. WHAT DO YOU ACCOMPLISH BY VOTING FOR NADER? Making a statement? Ha! What a bunch of crazy nonsense.

[Sorry.]

32. pitiful democracy

but what a pathetic statement about your democracy. "Vote for someone you don't believe in - he's the least worst scenario!"

It's why there will never be meaningful social change until everyone stops voting and takes back their right to run their own communities and workplaces.

[physaf]

34. Anybody who doesn't vote for someone who

stands for the same principles they do ... should not vote.

Period

[He loved Big Brother]

33. Is Kucinich responsible as well?

After all, he went against the status-quo as well.

[LimpingLib]

36. Liebermann would be the hottest Dem for decades to come if not for Nader.

He would be our President till like January 2017 or maybe even 2021-2025 (if him or old Al Gore won in 2000 but lost a few from 2008 or 2012). If not for Naders presence in the 2000 race then Liebermann would be described by the elite media as a "moderate liberal" and Zell Miller would just be a plain old moderate.

Thanks to Nader NO DEMOCRAT can run with conservative positions and not be outted as such. I was honestly afraid he wouldnt run this time. The days of already moderate Democrats lurching right (folling the GOPer's sprinting right wing positions but stopping just short and slightly left of the GOP nominee)every day till November are LONG gone. Hopefully by the time Nader is too old to run then the Democratic Party leaders will have already been dragged kicking and screaming from their incesant desire to play out in right field and will finally start representing average Americans for a change.

Instead of Democrats positioning themselves to win and win only they now have to actualy position their issues and it sure as hell better be positions on issues that dont put average or poor Ameriicans at a disposition otherwise Nader will give the American people a club and it will have the professional politicians and pollsters seeing stars.


As a consumer advocate Nader has done more for this country in the last 30-35 years than any politician has. The man is an advocate for his country plain and simple. Who else do you know who spends 90% of his income on causes that benefit the average and underpriveledged American?

Hell in 2000 we had a democratic nominee bragging he would spend twice as much as the GOP canidate in "defence" increases , we had a democratic nomineee who was defending his unilateral (opposed by the UN )attack on a slavic nation and explainning why he didnt care to work with the Russians to avoid the war where as the GOP nominee was saying we should have tried to avoid the conflict and worked with the Russians , we had a democratic nominee who refused to accept the fact that lack of health care coverage was a problem , we had a democratic nominee who picked as his VP one of the most conservative Senators to be his running mate and future President ( for decades to come perhaps), etc etc.

FAST forward to just 3 years later. Now we went not only went from Liebermann to Kerry but infact the top Democratic canidate from 3 years ago (Gore) has now renounced all his positions . He opposes unilateral attacks on other nations , he supports not only health care but SINGLE PAYER (!), heck he doesnt even support his hand picked 2000 ensign carrier !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Id give half my limbs and my left eye to keep Nader in the race every 4 years till the day he dies with that kind of progress that follows. He drives the professional politicans and pollsters crazy. They can be out of touch all they want to , but their only sure reward will be their egos and fat paychecks , winning however will be tough if they dont go on the offensive and gain ground for average Americans. I honestly thought in 2000 that the Democratic nominee and his pollsters were bending over head between knees while flashing their butts and thumbing their noses at me (in my more paranoid and fustrated moments). In reality it was just a miserable case of them simply being out of touch with average Americans and disregarding any schred of progressive values.Nothing an out of touch elitest hates more than democracy .

No more " heads-right win wins ... tales-average and poor Americans looses " choices. Thank you Ralph for giving us a fighting chance yet again . He knows the fight isnt over . The stomach acid and indigestion of the unprincipled egotistical profession prize ballot mercenary fighters is my delight. O well ... hope the Democratic nominee flushes all of them because their insincerity will shine forth . The American people (not only with the help of Ralph) do have enough of a BS monitor that they can smell hippocricy a mile away (well at least when it comes to politicians ). If I were the Democratic nominee then I would do 2 things. #1 (for example) Watch Bill Moyers and try to recruit all of the guests to be campaign advisors. #2 fire all the professional mercenarys we see mouthing off on TV every night. A true believer will not only always fight harder than some cocky overpaid hireling but he will also gain much more respect by some MINOR (sarcasim) people, like (sarcasim)say the American people.Rarely does Nader get a hiss from people who dont vote and hate "politics" where as almost any other commentator or politician will get my grandmal to turn the dial so fast in disgust that it isnt funny. I dont want my serious canidate supposedly representing serious dire issues whether it be Kerry , Edwards , or Nader to look like a clown in a circus .

Anyway Nader has proven that sincerity , selflesness, persistance , perspiration, and even a little anger and righteous indignation can speak volumes and (lol) make friends and influence people .