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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 09:36 PM
Original message
Can Dean defeat Bush?
Zafar Sobhan
'The conventional wisdom is that Howard Dean can't beat George Bush in the US presidential election in November. During a recent televised debate among the candidates for the Democratic nomination for president, the moderator Ted Koppel asked the candidates to raise their hand if they thought that Dean could beat Bush. In the most comical moment of the US political season so far, the only candidate who raised his hand was Dean!

The principal accusation leveled against Dean is that he is too left-wing to appeal to the general electorate and that George Bush would defeat him in a landslide. But the conventional wisdom is wrong. Dean could give Bush a real run for his money in November next and here's why.

Simply put, Dean is the only Democratic candidate so far who has shown anything like the political deftness that will be needed to credibly challenge Bush in November. The question his opponents need to ask themselves is that if he is such a poor candidate, how is it that he has run circles around the rest of the field all year?

The political story of 2003 in the US has been the emergence of Dean from an unknown ex-governor of a tiny state to the front-runner for the Democratic nomination. So far he has out smarted at every turn such political luminaries as John Kerry, Joe Lieberman and Dick Gephardt, all of whom began the year with name recognition that dwarfed his. This time last year virtually no one in the US had even heard of Howard Dean.

It is Dean's political dexterity that is his most compelling attribute and one that will make him a formidable opponent come November. He was the only candidate who correctly diagnosed the groundswell of anger against Bush and made it the centerpiece of his campaign. Democratic voters have been waiting a long time for a candidate who doesn't apologise for being a Democrat and who promises to give the Republicans as good as he gets. Dean recognised and tapped into this sentiment and has been reaping the rewards ever since.

The second piece of evidence pointing to Dean's political adroitness is his building up of a network of supporters and volunteers through the internet. He is now in command of what amounts to his own political machinery. He has raised more money than any of the other candidates for the nomination and has in less than a year set up a formidable grassroots organisation of his people in every state in the country. Only among the chattering classes in Washington, where parroting the conventional wisdom of the day passes for political discourse, could such evidence of political virtuosity be contemptuously dismissed.

Dean is a master of the game and this is why he has dominated the run-up to the primary season. He has a commanding lead over his opponents in New Hampshire and is slightly ahead of the field in Iowa, the first two crucial battlegrounds in the Democratic primary. The word on the street is that Al Gore's high-profile endorsement is set to be followed by that of Tom Harkin, ex-senator from Iowa, which should safely deliver the state to Dean.'

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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. yes
..
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. 2 out of 3
no rules match..dean wins using the long forgotten "sleeper hold"
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. It will be
Edited on Wed Dec-24-03 10:03 PM by Dems Will Win
Dean 291
Bush 247

We will take OH and WV and AR (w/Clark as VP) in 2004 and maybe take back the House due to Dean bringing in 8 million or so new voters (15 million Progressive Millennial voters will be eligible to vote in 2004 for the first time -- and they are far more active and progressive than Generation X). Millennials were born of Boomer parents from 1982 to 2001 and echo their politics. Gen Xers were born from 1962 to 1981 and are far more nihilist and vote less, although many are powerful Progressives in their own right. THe Millennials are mostly 60s style activists.

See the book "Generations" by Strauss and Howe.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I live in Ohio.
There are a good amount of Democrats, but Ohio is part of the Republican BASE. Ohio is VERY political, so there are not very many swing voters. Ohio is going to be VERY tough. Seems like nothing but conservatives to me. No matter who is running we will need to fight the hardest fight we have ever had to fight in order to win ohio.

I will be working my @$$ off.


Anyone but Bush 2004. May the best man/woman win!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I disagree
Ohio can be had, and it's one of the states that Dean has to concentrate on. If I remember correctly, Gore lost by 3 percentage points, but he NEVER campaigned in the state. He wrote it off, and never stopped to campaign there. Ohio has been a Democratic state for generations, until the Reagan-Bush team, and the xtian coalition started organizing the "yay-hoos" in the southern half of the state.

Most of the state is made up of urban voters, who have lost, and are looking at losing their jobs in the immediate future.

Get on it Howard!!!!
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eileen from OH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I am SO there, rririck
Dean (or the Dem nominee if it isn't him) CAN win Ohio. IF they actually pay attention to us, that is. I am bloody sick and tired of being told how "important" Ohio is, except that no one seems to think we're worth a freaking VISIT - except for Bush and Cheney who I believe have earned enough hotel points to qualify for free rooms.

Yeah. we're a late primary. But if anyone (HELLOOOO, DEAN) is actually looking forward to a nation-wide campaign, they might at least recognize that we exist.

eileen from OH
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. When pigs fly
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Kinda funny you mention that
Ohio is known for flying pigs!
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LA4Kerry Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. NO!
"The question his opponents need to ask themselves is that if he is such a poor candidate, how is it that he has run circles around the rest of the field all year? "

Because most people get their information from lazy journalists who have been giving Dean a free pass for several months!

Not only can Dean NOT defeat GWB, he will get defeated in a landslide!

Let's nominate the real progressive candidate -- the REAL DEAL,

Kerry '04!
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I know lots of die hard Democrats and they are gloomy about Dean
I'm in Western Pennsylvania for the holidays and I find no groundswell of support for Dean. In fact I find the opposite. People want to know how and why this Dean candidacy is being imposed on us and how we can get a more electable candidate or at least someone they would feel proud to vote for. The meme I hear over and over is that Dean is the worst of all possible worlds, a moderate to conservative who is perceived as a pacifist liberal elitist. A friend said Dean seems to be the candidate of people who drive Subarus and Saabs.
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adadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Same where I live n/t
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floridaguy Donating Member (751 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It's not just Dems that don't like Dean
If it were only a few dissatisfied Dems that didn't like Dean, he might still have a chance in the general election. However, you rarely talk to an independent, Green, etc., who has anything nice to say about Dean. Even those Repubs who don't like Bush, would like an option. Dean sold the party loyalists long before the best candidate got in the race, and now they feel a loyalty that is misguided.

Weseley Clark is the only Democratic candidate who can win.

Please reconsider, so we can win in November.
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LA4Kerry Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The whole package
Clark would certainly have a much better chance than Dean. I still think John Kerry has the edge, however. Kerry has the whole package: military experience, foreign policy experience and a very impressive record on domestic policy issues (100% rating with the LCV, 100% rating with the NEA, etc)

Kerry '04!
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LA4Kerry Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Anybody but Dean
I have seen no groundswell of support for Dean either. I've campaigned in my local area, as well as made phone calls to residents of other states. It's just not there; I have no idea who is coming up with these numbers, but if they were accurate you would see it on the street. I don't know about anyone else, but I am just not seeing it!

We don't have to let them impose Dean on us...it ain't over 'til it's over. (And it hasn't even begun!)

Anybody but Bush = Anybody but Dean!!
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Dean is getting hundreds to Meetups here--that looks like a groundswell
How is your candidate doing in grassroots organizing? Despite the fact that no campaign money has been spent in Ohio, he has visibility. Friends know that I like politics and they ask me for my opinion on Howard Dean--they don't ask about the others.

Dean is the only one who rose from obscurity to establish a position in Ohio. In comparison, Kerry, Gephardt, and Kucinich have about no presence. John Edwards has influenced a few people who bothered to watch him in debates or on Cspan. Mosley Braun and Sharpton are trace elements in the composition chart.

I keep telling myself that I am on the fence about who to vote for. Dean has some definite liabilities. The alternatives hardly inspire confidence, though.
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Capablanca Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I agree
It appears to me that the only candidate that actually has a chance to pull in moderate independents, and a few repups who are fed up with the over spending and the war, is Kerry. Dean is interesting but like McCain I believe the novelty will diminish over time.

I am not saying Kerry is definitely who I like, I am just saying that I think Kerry is the only real chance.
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jonoboy Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. it's in the destiny of the US & to save the world: Dems will win
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. Can Dean beat Kerry? Yes! .Gep? Yes Joe? Yes! Bush?? Yes!!!
Conventional wisdom has been relegated to the bottom of the ocean this year courtesy of Dr. Dean!!

Dean '04...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. Excellent paragraph
Simply put, Dean is the only Democratic candidate so far who has shown anything like the political deftness that will be needed to credibly challenge Bush in November. The question his opponents need to ask themselves is that if he is such a poor candidate, how is it that he has run circles around the rest of the field all year?

It really is an automatic answer to mean-spirited supporters of other candidates who post these silly "Dean is unelectable" threads 4,856 a day, isn't it? If he's so "unelectable" why is he beating the sh*t out of YOUR candidate?
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-03 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
21. Was Truman correct or not? That answer is your answer.
If people will vote for a DINO rather than a Republican, then Dean can win. If not, not.
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