Is it true that Kerry has said, "See, I was right to vote for the war"?

[ProfessorPlum]

in light of Saddam being captured? (I've seen this notion alluded to several times since Sunday, but no actual links or quotes).

If this IS true, could we please have an end to people b*tching that Dean "underhandedly misrepresented" the IWR as a "vote for war", since Kerry would effectively be doing this himself?

If it is NOT true, my apologies to Kerry and Kerry supporters. Lieberman can go crawl back under his rock.

[GainesT1958]

1. He did defend his vote, really for the first time unequivocally...

Yesterday to Dan Rather on CBS' coverage of Saddam's capture.

B-)

[ProfessorPlum]

2. Hoo-boy

Now I guess Kerry can't say that Bush "tricked" him to go to war, or even if he did, Kerry is glad he did.

That is so weak, I don't even know where to begin.

[cindyw]

8. Boy your hard to convince. Kerry said what he always says.

Nothing has changed.

Do yo believe everything the media says. Where would we be if we believed the media interpretation of all events.

It disgusts me the way you asked this question, as if you were open to the truth, but then someone says yeah and you say whoo boy.

[papau]

16. Kerry has changed speech a little - but made it better IMHO

ABC News' Ed O'Keefe reports Kerry's Bush not fit to be CINC


ABC News' O'Keefe reported that Kerry has changed his stump speech and is not doing a blanket blast of Bush for domestic and foreign policy failures including Iraq.

Kerry now asks "How does one measure the words 'Mission Accomplished'?" ... "Notwithstanding the capture of Saddam Hussein today, which we celebrate, this President doesn't have the experience to be Commander-in-Chief." ... "Anyone can read what's been written for them."

Sharpton also had a good line:

Although good news, the accomplishment does not diminish Bush's false motivation to engage in war... and the media's foriegn policy focus should change from who supports the war, to the need for and cost of NON-UN continued occupation of Iraq.

Of course our whore media will do what Rove wants. Sharpton and Kerry and Dean are not worth understanding, or having their views in front of the public.

[cindyw]

18. Can you give a link. I would like to read the whole article?

Thanks.

[papau]

24. As quoted on Direct TV and in ABCNote so far today!

I do my best !!

But I can only surf TV and internet just so fast!

:-)

ABCNote quote is similiar to TV - but I liked TV wording better!

:-)

[ProfessorPlum]

20. that is better

Kerry should just STFU about his IWR vote, though.

[cindyw]

22. I'll make you a deal. I'll tout that meme all over the Kerry forum, if

Dean will stop saying that he was against the war from the beginning. Won't happen. Dean has based his popularity on that idea. he even said in a debate that he knew the Vietnam war was wrong and that he knew Nixon was a crook. I wonder if Dean knows who shot JFK?

[ProfessorPlum]

26. Whatever

I don't recall you being around when these debates were raging here the first 50,000 times we've been over them.

If you were, you would know that I've tried to be extremely fair to Kerry about his IWR vote, for good and for bad.

For him to imply, by a defense of his IWR vote, that he had something to do with the capture of Saddam, or if he implies that he would vote that way again (knowing what he now knows about Bush and Cheney), indicates that he doesn't feel used by Chimpco and that what they have done despite his opposition is fine.

He can celebrate Saddam's capture all day and night, but using his IWR vote to support it is beyond the pale.

My apologies if you have been here all this time.

[cindyw]

30. Notice the words you are using. Imply, suggest.

IF what you were saying was true then Kerry would not have my support. IF Dean thought that Saddam was an okay guy or if the interpretation of the RNC that Dems support the terrorist were true then they would not deserve our support.

It's all conjecture and interpretation. Kerry has made his positions clear and your interpretations of them do not make them true.

[cindyw]

35. Oh I forgot. I have been here. As a lurker, much longer than a poster.

n/t

[ProfessorPlum]

38. then you know that I have labored mightily to try to

understand Kerry's IWR vote, his positions, and just how betrayed he was by the Bush administration as they went to war anyway.

As someone who thinks he should have voted the other way on IWR, I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Kerry's defenders now say that Dean is unfair to link Kerry to IWR, but what happens when Kerry links himself to IWR?

Is it too much to come to the conclusion that Kerry really is trying to have it both ways with this vote? That good results can be linked to the IWR vote while bad results are all Bush's fault? Kerry certainly seems to be implying that link.

All I'm saying is that if he wants to make that link, then I don't want to hear any more crying about how Dean is unfairly associating Kerry with a "vote for war". Kerry makes that association himself, when the time is convenient, apparently.

If they are just playing politics, as I suspect, then I don't want to hear any more about how St. Kerry is unfairly put upon by Devil Dean.

[cindyw]

42. The association dean makes with Kerry and the IWR is unfair because it is

hypocritical. Dean supported a resolution that Bush would have used to invade Iraq, so it is hypocritical for him to use Kerry's vote to him advantage. As he has done. It is like Bush attacking Dems for abandoning seniors on the medicare vote.

You know who could attack kerry on his vote and I would consider it a fair attack.

Dennis Kucinich.

[sandnsea]

46. CNN Transcript

Yes, saying what he's always said.

"COOPER: Let me ask you, yesterday you said, quote, "The administration can and must launch a major effort to gain international support and win peace." You said they have a unique opportunity to do that right now.

By all reports, Colin Powell was on the phone with 16 of his counterparts on Sunday, with the German, the French, Japanese and others. What more does the administration need to do?

KERRY: Well, that is the kind of thing they need to do, but they haven't been doing that. I mean, that's exactly the point.

You know, I think this is a great thing, obviously. Everybody in America is elated. We congratulate the troops. They've done an extraordinary job. We're blessed to have the best military we've ever had.

But the fact remains that many of us who said we ought to hold Saddam Hussein accountable -- and we are -- have felt very strongly there's a better way to do it that reduces the risk to our troops and reduces the cost to the American taxpayer. That way is not to do it unilaterally, not to have a sense of American occupation, but to have other countries participating.

This is now a golden opportunity. It's a huge opportunity. I hope the president will fully seize it. We can bring other countries to the table, reduce the burden and, frankly, turn our attention to the real war on terror, which is the effort to capture Osama bin Laden and to focus on al Qaeda around the world."

[ProfessorPlum]

48. That's excellent

and exactly the right tone. Did he say anything about IWR?

Thanks for the transcript.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. Does this mean we can finally get over the

"poor John Kerry, Dean misrepresented his IWR vote" threads around here?

Whenever I hear that Dean is trying to misportray Kerry as trying to have it both ways on this "war", I will think of this: Kerry having it both ways on this war. He is acting like his IWR vote helped bring about this good result (capture of Saddam) through a horrible means (betrayal (of himself!) by Bush and an illegal and ruinous war). If that is what he wants, to take credit for his vote as something which brought about good results, then he can hardly blame people for holding his vote against him as helping bring about the bad results (deaths and maiming of thousands of innocents on both sides, collapse of what little public health there was in Iraq, the aggravation of anti-American feeling in the Islamic world, the horrendous pricetag (including gouging by Republican pet companies), the loss of our standing with allies, etc.)

This pisses me off to no end. The proper response from Kerry would have been to renounce his IWR vote months ago. He is still counting on this administration to turn this situation into a net win for the US!!! THIS administration!!!

I'm more disappointed in Kerry right now than I have been since the start of this race.

My apologies if I've offended anyone, your mileage may vary of course, but what the hell???

[LuminousX]

3. NPR this morning strongly implied Kerry was 'touting' his vote

Lieberman clearly said he has always supported the war. Kerry said it was a good thing but that is no different than what anyone else is saying.

SFGate
Kerry and Lieberman sought to remind voters of their support for Bush's war resolution, even as they criticized the president anew for not reaching out to allies.

"I think if we had more troops involved, more countries involved, we might have less people lost and we might have done it sooner," Kerry said in Moline, Iowa.

He and Lieberman also suggested Dean had been soft on Saddam, noting Dean's statement that Iraq would "probably" be better off without Saddam.

I think now he has to justify not voting for the $87 billion for Iraq if he want to share in some of the limelight of this moment.

[mmm]

4. Not true, Kucinich NEVER supported the invasion!

[ProfessorPlum]

6. huh????? n/t

.

[LuminousX]

7. The damning quote from Kerry

Questionable Source - New Republic, but a direct quote

But not long after Saddam's furry face first appeared on TV, Kerry switched from attacking Dean as a war-monger who "exercised the exact same judgment" as John Kerry, to attacking Dean as a hopelessly soft-on-Saddam peacenik and recasting himself as a maximalist hawk. Here's how the Associated Press reported Kerry's initial reaction to the news of Saddam's capture:

Kerry and Lieberman sought to remind voters of their support for Bush's war resolution, even as they criticized the president anew for not reaching out to allies....

He and Lieberman also suggested Dean had been soft on Saddam, noting Dean's statement that Iraq would "probably" be better off without Saddam....

Added Kerry: "I guess he supposes it's a good thing to get rid of Saddam Hussein. Well, I knew it was a good thing on that day, day one."

How in the world did anyone ever get the idea that John Kerry has been ambivalent about the war?

[cindyw]

11. What does thinking it was a good thing to get rid of Saddam have to do

with thinking it was a good idea to invade Iraq.

You guys are getting desperate.

I didn't know that you guys believed Bush when he said the only way to hold Saddam accountable was to invade the country of Iraq. Kerry didn't think so. That is why I support him.

[ProfessorPlum]

15. Kerry might not have thought that US unilateral invasion

was the only way to hold Saddam accountable, but apparently it is a fine and dandy way for Kerry just the same.

[cindyw]

21. It absolutley was not. He stated so in january of 2003.

What are you saying. Yes we would like to get rid of saddam, but since we don't like how Bush did it, we have to say it was a bad thing.

Prove to me that Kerry thinks the war is a good thing. You can't without giving me some serious interpretation of his comments in a debate where sometimes you get 15 seconds to say something.

[ProfessorPlum]

23. Look, he can say whatever he wants about the capture of Saddam

But he'd better not reference his IWR vote as something that led to it.

I've been defending Kerry's vote, despite my opposition to the war, out the yin yang here for a long time, as something a reasonable but slightly gullible person could do.

If Kerry is now going to claim that he was right to vote for IWR, and that Bush was right to screw him over for it, just because we captured Saddam, then I will take his vote for what it was - cynical, and a moral abandonment.

[cindyw]

32. Show me a quote where Kerry says his vote was responsible for bringing

Saddam to justice and I will go to the site and criticize him.

[ProfessorPlum]

34. He defended his IWR vote on national TV

on the day Saddam's capture was announced.


Why?

[cindyw]

36. Kerry was already scheduled for interviews. Of course they asked him

about saddam. he repeated what he always says. That he voted right at the time. To hold Saddam accountable, that he things Bush has F'ed up and that he regrets that Bush misled and didn't keep his word.

I think you are trying to see this as some political move. How should he have responded on a show he was already to be on? How should he respond when they call him for a response?

Listen if you cannot get past his IWR vote, then fine. Pick another canididate. But Kerry is saying what he has already said. The media is filtering it for their own benefit of a story. How dissapointed they must have been when Kerry was consistent on his position. So they made it up that he flip flopped. I have yet to see a quote in one of those articles, proving the implications. Infact many articles say the opposite. That Kerry is still stickin it to Bush.

Now lets talk about who is really using this to flip flop and get on their knees for Bush. Gephardt and Lieberman. have you read what Gephardt said?

[ProfessorPlum]

40. No, please enlighten so I can spread the joy around a bit

I've already read about Quisling Joe and his band of merry traitors.

[cindyw]

45. "I supported this effort in Iraq without regard for the political

consequences because it was the right thing to do. I still feel that way now and today is a major step toward stabilizing Iraq and building a new democracy," Gephardt said.


I know Kerry's positions well enough to know that that farthest he has ever gone is to say that he supported doing something about Saddam, but he has never gone far enough to say that he "supported this effort in Iraq". What does Gep mean by "this effort". Does he mean the invasion?

[ProfessorPlum]

47. Thanks, Gep.

Way to crumble, the way Rove expected you to.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. Of course getting rid of Saddam is a good thing

you weanie (Kerry), but at what cost?

Holy christ, I'm starting to think the Democrats really don't know how to oppose someone like Bush. Maybe we should all switch to the Republican party and work for change from inside that party, since no one with a (D) beside their name will ever get support from any one else in that party.

What a load.

I wonder what day Kerry thinks was Day One? The day he voted yes on the horrible IWR in the hope that GWB would go to the UN and work with our allies? Or the day when we started amassing troops on the Iraq border, making it clear we were going to invade no matter what the UN did? Or the day when we killed a bunch of innocent Iraqis with "Shock and Awe"? Or the day when Ali had his arms blown off? Or the day when the US became guilty of international war crimes?

I'm glad Kerry's moral compass is so straight and true.

[cindyw]

17. I love how you feign possible support and then you make the

disgusting suggestion that Kerry would support any of the things you just said. Bush is responsible for the loss of those boys arms. Not Kerry.

do you even know the irony in that you just quoted Kerry. Everywhere Kerry goes he says "at what cost".

You cannot judge a man with a lack of knowledge of his opinions and the stands he takes. I could make things up about Dean, but since I don't watch him enough, I don't. You should follow my lead.

[blm]

25. Kerry has been for getting rid of Saddam since 1998.

He has always said it should be done diplomatically FIRST and if not war as a last resort. There is NO inconsistency in that from 1998 to 2002-2003. NONE.

Dean's problem is that HE is the one who turned IWR support into a black and white issue. HE is the one who never bothered telling his audiences the truth about the negligible differences in his stand and those he attacked on IWR.

When are you going to hold DEAN accountable for turning negligible differences into a battering ram against the others? If he suffers anything at all from his deceptive rhetoric of the past year, well, he desreves it.

[killbotfactory]

27. So has Kucinich

That doesn't excuse the IWR and war that it led to.

[ProfessorPlum]

29. blm, but if it is really deceptive, then what does it mean

for Kerry to embrace that interpretation? Please tell me that Kerry isn't using IWR to try to shine some good light on himself from Saddam's capture, that just doesn't make sense. If IWR really was "support for the war" and all of its good outcomes, then doesn't he have to take his partial responsibility for the bad outcomes as well?

Like I said, getting rid of Saddam is all well and good, and Kerry can revel in this moment as much as he likes, AS LONG AS he doesn't use IWR to defend it. Then all of your arguments from the past year about Dean being so unfair and underhanded go right out the window.

[cindyw]

33. That's just it. Voting for IWR does not equal support for the invasion.

Let's get that on the table right away. If you believe it is, then you have to accept that Dean supported the war, given his admitted support of the BL. Bush could have just as easily used BL to go to war. So is Dean responsible for the war? I think not. I also don't think IWR = support for war.

[CalProf]

44. Here's what Kerry actually said

absent The New Repugnik's brand of "journalism":



"This is a great day for U.S. forces, the Iraqi people, and the world. Capturing Saddam Hussein and ensuring that this brutal dictator will never return to power is an important step towards stabilizing Iraq for the Iraqis."

"Let’s also be clear: Our problems in Iraq have not been caused by one man and this is a moment when the administration can and must launch a major effort to gain international support and win the peace. We need to share the burden, bring in other countries, and make it clear to the world that Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people.

"Today is another opportunity to invite the world into a post-Saddam Iraq and build the coalition to win the peace that we should have built to win the war."


That's from his website: link: www.johnkerry.com



If you have a problem with that, then via con Dios, Amigo.

[ProfessorPlum]

9. Holy shite does that make me angry

What about the fact that after he made that vote, Bush dumped all over him and ignored the UN and did whatever he wanted to anyway? Is Kerry saying he approved of that? (We got Saddam, so I guess that makes it all ok - blowing off our allies and breaking international law don't matter, as long as W's mommy loves dubya now more than she loves Poppy, 'cause W captured a bad guy).

The IWR still sits badly with so many Democrats. Most heap Kerry with scorn because of it, but I was willing to give him a huge benefit of the doubt on it. I was hoping he would just renounce his vote, say it was a mistake to trust Bush, and move on. I've been defending him here on this issue . . . what a weanie.

He gets no more defense from me. If he wants to jump on the Lieberman "war is great" express because we dug some asshole out of a hole in the dirt, then he is ready to be consigned to a footnote in this race. I cannot believe him.

[cindyw]

14. There is no proof of what you are saying.

Media interpretation at best. I still see no links that prove anything. If I wanted to I could pull out media interpretation saying anything I wanted about Howard Dean.

I saw Kerry say that holding Saddam accountable was good.The man was a disgusting dictator.

Do you disagree? What's wrong with questioning Dean about whether he agrees.

I for one am glad they caught Saddam and that he is no longer in power. Will it stop the mess we are in? No. Should we have invaded? Absolutely not. Should we support our president? NO.

I may not support Bush or Dean, but some things are absolute truths.

Dictator - bad
President who wishes he was dictator - bad
Finding a third way besides war to accomplish goals - good
Letting our men and women die without honor in an unjustified war - bad

If you have a problem with what I just said then don't support Kerry. These are his positions. If you think the US would be at war today, with Kerry as President, then don't vote for him. It is that simple.

[ProfessorPlum]

19. To be honest, I don't know whether I'm happy they caught Saddam or not

He wasn't hurting anyone except his own citizens, many of whom are dead and/or suffering just as horribly now as they were when he was in power.

The US is in terrible shape, however, due to our efforts to "git Saddam", led by the Chimp-in-Chief.

Saddam's capture is a Pyrrhic victory, at best. For Kerry to act like his IWR vote had something to do with it is disingenous at best, and really horrible at worst.

[cindyw]

28. When did Kerry say his vote was responsible for the capture of Saddam?

You need to provide links. I cannot talk about conjecture.

Of course catching Saddam if just a way for Bush to strut. I certainly does not make the invasion right or Bush a better CIC or fix this quagmire we are in.

I would also suggest that you apply the follow statement to Bush.

He wasn't hurting anyone except his own citizens, many of whom are dead and/or suffering just as horribly now as they were when he was in power.

Associate Bush's name and actions with that statement and see what you think of it. I for one think it is good to take down a disgusting dictator whether he be the leader of some god forsaken country or the CIC of the US army. We should have found another way to do it, but let be glad a man like him has been reduced to such a pathetic waste. Then we go together, you and I, and make sure he is not the president any longer.

[ProfessorPlum]

31. I can't provide that link - that's what I posted asking for

However, the fact that he is linking in temporal proximity a vigorous defense of his IWR vote with the capture of Saddam implies that he is making that connection, which will piss me off completely.

[cindyw]

37. Yeah. One person answer you with opinion and you jumped on that as

proof that he did do that.

As for temporal proximity, I think you are looking too hard. As I said in another response. What would you have Kerry say? I also disagree with your use of the word "vigorous". I have yet to see proof of that.

[gasperc]

10. About what? No WMD's, not coordinating the resistance

I can't believe I supported Kerry at first

[ProfessorPlum]

13. I can't believe I've been defending his

"nuanced" stand on the IWR vote for nearly a year now. Even though I thought it was a bad vote symbolically, I always thought Kerry meant it for the best. Now, it turns out, he apparently approves of any and all measures, illegal, ruinous, or murderous, as long as we "git Saddam".

[cindyw]

39. He certainly does not. It is wrong to suggest it.

n/t

[bread_and_roses]

41. I am confused

The only Kerry comment that I heard myself referred to the importance of involving other nations in the reconstruction of Iraq. None of the quotes I read here were statements from Kerry that SH's capture vindicated the invasion? If he did say so, I would like a quote or reference (which for all I know has been posted while I am typing this between tasks at work).

For the record, I oppose both the war and the occupation, nonetheless, based on his over-all voting record, I find Kerry preferable to Dean. However, I do not think the capture of Saddam makes Dean any more OR less viable as a candidate.

I do think we should differentiate between what the candidates say and media spin or innuendo.

[ProfessorPlum]

43. I agree and thanks for the whiff of sanity

here. I apologize for getting my panties in a bunch over this, but for months we've had to endure the most overwrought characterizations of Dean wrt Kerry and IWR.

[Meshuga]

49. Do you have a link? I would love to see a link to this quote.

Since you have no proof and no link I'm going to bitch even more about Dean and his followers misrepresenting the IWR vote as a "vote for war".

This is smear at its best.

Dean is only the front runner because of his campaign success in trying to perceive him as the anti-war candidate and smearing Kerry as pro-war because of Kerry's IWR vote.

Kerry's IWR vote is the cause that Dean exists. Otherwise Kerry would be the front runner right now and Dean would be a nobody.

[ProfessorPlum]

50. Uh, I'm asking for the link

or didn't you get that from the original post? Did you read what you are replying to?

[Meshuga]

51. Wait for the link and then post it

unless you want to smear Kerry. And ff that's the case then you did the right thing by posting it.

[ProfessorPlum]

52. ?????

[DrFunkenstein]

53. Kerry Said It Was Right To Hold Saddam Accountable, But Do It Right

This is the statement released:

"This is a great day for U.S. forces, the Iraqi people, and the world. Capturing Saddam Hussein and ensuring that this brutal dictator will never return to power is an important step towards stabilizing Iraq for the Iraqis."

"Let’s also be clear: Our problems in Iraq have not been caused by one man and this is a moment when the administration can and must launch a major effort to gain international support and win the peace. We need to share the burden, bring in other countries, and make it clear to the world that Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people."

"Today is another opportunity to invite the world into a post-Saddam Iraq and build the coalition to win the peace that we should have built to win the war.”

I watched his statements on Fox News (I believe), but he said something similar on all the stations. His website has all his recent appearances if you have Real Player or WMV. Check it out here and watch it for yourself.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1214.html

<>

[ProfessorPlum]

55. Yes, my apologies for the rant -

I'd seen it asserted several times that Kerry brought up IWR with respect to Saddam being captured, which pissed me off to no end, but I haven't seen any substantial evidence that Kerry linked the two. The quotes from Kerry that I've seen have all been measured and appropriate and I apologize to you and other Kerry supporters for the post, if he didn't actually link them. That would be an incredibly poor move on his part.

[curse10]

56. Thank you for seeing through the spin

some DUers have wrought. :-)

[cindyw]

57. Well it made my day to be able to have a reasoned discussion with

someone here. May be I will keep coming back.:D

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. This thread makes me angry.

How underhanded, and deceptive can you get?

[DrFunkenstein]

58. Prof Plum Speaks From The Heart

He would not mention this if it were not a sincere concern of his. He may not be in Kerry's corner, but he is very fair-minded and doesn't criticize anyone lightly.