Do I really belong here?

[strategery blunder]

Since DU noticed the Conservative Underground a couple of days ago, I have noticed a lot of additional paranoia regarding trolls. As I agree with the freepers on some issues (but not enough to make me vote for *), I guess I'm afraid of being caught in a massive anti-troll campaign.

That said, I suppose you all want an inventory of my political beliefs and the relative importance I place on each (on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest):

1) * LIHOPed 9/11 (10)

2) Oppose * tax cuts (6)

3) Oppose Iraq quagmire and PNAC agenda in general (10)

4) I believe that alternative energy sources (yes, including nuclear) need to be implemented NOW, before Peak Oil roils the economy. We need fallback options. (9)

5) Oppose other * environmental policies (7)

6) Universal health care (4)

7) Increase minimum wage to a "living wage," and index it for inflation (6)

8) This is where my concerns start to come in.
I'm a Christian (although I do not try to convert people, I will defend my beliefs if called into question.) (10)

9) Oppose abortion on moral grounds, except in cases of rape, incest, or possibility of disabling injury or death to the mother. The fetus does not get any say in the matter. I accept the medical defintions of life, btw, so my opposition to abortion would only be strong starting around the fifth or sixth month. Preventative contraceptives OK. (8)

10) Don't persecute GLBT people (9) and let God deal with the morality of it (3).

11) (on edit) Forgot corporate scandals. Corporations cannot be trusted. (8)

[XanaDUer]

1. Sounds like you belong here to me...

:shrug:

[strategery blunder]

5. 8 and 9 are where the problem is

and I've posted some stuff that might be misread as freeper trolling by those who are unfamiliar with my other beliefs.

[AlCzervik]

9. I dont think you

have to take a hard left to belong here, i'm moderate on some stuff and on other things i'm not. Thats the great thing about being at a democratic site, you dont have to locke your step to be welcome.

[Taverner]

14. Sounds like Kucinich!

Well that is before he changed to pro-choice

Of course you belong here!

I'm pretty far left, but I do hold one conservative view, guns. No restrictions, period!

Having said that I do not own a gun anymore now that I have a kid.

[strategery blunder]

20. Guns don't really matter to me

So low on my priorty list that it didn't even deserve mention. Gun control rates a 0 on my list--just don't care. However, since you brought it up, I shall share with you my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Gun rights people tend not to notice the first four words, imho.

Edit: evil typo! And I made my 600th post without even noticing! I missed it!

[Taverner]

22. Yep....I've heard both sides of the issue

And like many other issues, both sides have very good points.

For me it all comes down to one thing - when you can't trust the Government (like now) it's nice to be able to shoot back.

But I can see the argument you mentioned above - when the ammendment was written society was VERY different than it is today. Rural areas didn't have the protection of even police departments in most cases, so they had to be able to unite and defend themselves should the need arise.

[EstimatedProphet]

24. Agreed too

Same with me. I am a liberal gun owner. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, the right to own guns is a liberal issue. The conservatives stole it.

[Deja Q]

2. Hey, I'm quite the leftie...

And another user basically called me a freeper in public. (I won't mention ANY details or hints of any as I don't want to wrongfully indict someone. Given what that person had said, I did start to wonder myself, but it's not worth thinking about. )

To answer your question: Yes, you do belong here.

In the end, freepers will always be around. I'm not going to waste my time with them.

[NewHampster]

3. Please remember that the Democratic Party is not

an organized political party.

We don't walk in lock step.
We each have our own brains.
We mostly respect each other for their opinions.

You sound as mixed up as any. Welcome again.

[brokensymmetry]

4. Admit it. You running for office!

If you'd add a plank about more American jobs and less outsourcing, I'd vote for you! :)

Seriously, it seems to me that you fit in perfectly! And Happy Easter!

[strategery blunder]

7. You might not have noticed this

Corporations cannot be trusted. (bottom line)

[brokensymmetry]

19. Oh, but I did.

And I liked it! :7

[strategery blunder]

21. At 18? In 2020, maybe.

And even then, I'd just barely be old enough to meet the Constitutional restrictions for the Presidency.

[brokensymmetry]

29. Maybe earlier than that.

Bill Clinton was elected Attorney General at age 30....

[tkmorris]

6. Yes you do

You are clearly to the left of many people here. They belong, and so do you. It wouldn't matter to me in any case; I don't mind moderate/conservative people as long as they dont get cute about it.

The only thing I can see that you might consider a problem (your perspective I'm guessing at here) is your religious beliefs, but believe me there are far more believers here than disbelievers. The topic of religion does get discussed and it can get heated but so what? There are heated discussions here over all sorts of topics, participate or not as you see fit.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Redneck Socialist]

8. Sounds OK to me

Last time I checked all you need for DU is a general support of the Democratic party and its nominee. You don't have to swallow the whole platform and criticism is tolerated if not outright encouraged.

As Will Rogers said, "I'm not a member of an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

[liberalhistorian]

10. Sounds reasonable enough to me,

I respectfully disagree with you as far as abortion is concerned, but you have the right to your views. There are, indeed, established DUers who are pro-life, so being against abortion isn't going to automatically get you pushed out the door.

I'm a Christian also, but not a fundamentalist zealot, and I'm very wary of hearing "morality" and "morals" and the like. There are plenty of Christian DUers here, as well, as well as Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, etc., and we all generally get along and sometimes even learn from each other.

I believe in the separation of church and state and that, while I may have religious beliefs, I do not have to right to demand that everyone else adhere to them and that my beliefs should be codified in the laws that govern EVERYONE, no matter what, if any, religion. I think Christ was the original, ultimate liberal, and the focus of Christianity needs to be on helping others, no matter who or what they are, and that many modern Christians have lost sight of that. I believe that Shrub, Asscroft, Falwell, Robertson, and their ilk are no more Christian than Osama Bin Laden and will eventually have to answer for it, if not in this world, certainly in the next.

[prolesunited]

11. Last time I checked

you don't have to renounce your religion to be a Democrat and atheism isn't an official party plank.

[beyurslf]

12. Absolutley you belong

I am more than likely one of the most liberal people on the board and clearly to your left, but we can't agree on everything. Anyone who supports Kerry and wants BUsh our belongs here!

[Droopy]

13. I don't see how being Christian would call you into question

By the statement that you made you'd think that we were all raving atheists around here. There are some very outspoken and vehement atheists on this board, but I'm willing to bet that they are outnumbered by Chritians.

[strategery blunder]

17. Sorry--didn't mean it that way

I recognize that when DUers talk about "fundies," they aren't lumping me in, but sometimes I get that feeling anyway. My beliefs regarding abortion restrictions arise in large part from (my interpretation of) Christianity.

[Droopy]

28. That's cool

Here's something that might make you look twice. I'm an atheist and I used to be pro-life. It's an issue that still causes me pain even though I've switched to pro-choice. That change took a lot of soul searching, but I won't bother you with the details. I don't want to turn this into argument about abortion. I respect your point of view and I know exactly where you are coming from in regards to the issue.

[Taverner]

15. One other Note, Jesus was a Liberal

So you DEFINITELY belong here!

[Duncan Grant]

16. I think this is a simple matter.

As long as people can follow the rules and guidelines established by the administrators of this site...no problem. It's a progressive board; if you're a progressive you'll enjoy the time you spend here.

My general comment on the "board wars" is, if you're not civil here at DU or if you have a history of disrupting, I would rather see you (not you personally chair094) tombstoned. I don't have time for the psy-ops self-congratulatory paranoia.

BTW, my best childhood buddy is an attorney in Kirksville, MO (small world, isn't it?). I've been there many times. Do you think Northeast Missouri is going for the democrats or republicans this time around?

And, a belated welcome to DU, too! :hi:

[strategery blunder]

18. Wonder if I met your buddy?

As far as the political predictions go, it will probably be split. There are a lot of freeper types out here, mostly ultrafundies and PNACers, but this region is very economically depressed. These two factors will work against each other imo.

After St. Louis weighs in, though, I'm guessing Missouri will go to Kerry, but just barely.

[Duncan Grant]

30. pResident * will be visiting Missouri a lot in the months ahead...

It's always good to be in a swing state if you're addicted to politics.

Looks like it's the same old political story in Missouri; it was a heartbreaking place to be a Democrat, at least when I lived there (Eagleton, Litton, Carnahan, etc.).

There is at least one DUer from Kansas City (who is very progressive) and I know 1 from St. Louis. Glad the Missouri numbers are growing here at DU!

Ask your attorney friends if any of them are from St. Joseph. I wouldn't surprise me if you did know him! :kick:

[strategery blunder]

31. I don't have any attorney friends here.

I am here for college; no previous connections to Missouri.

I have not needed to make attorney friends, and for that I am thankful.

[Rowdyboy]

23. Where on earth do you see yourself agreeing with the Freeps?

#8 isn't even a question. There are many liberal Christian DUers here. Abortion is a very tricky issue. However. many liberal people of conscience don't completely support abortion rights-my partner in life being one of them.

Personally, I feel it is a matter between a woman and her doctor and my imput isn't needed (unless I provided the sperm).

Hope you stay.

[strategery blunder]

26. I have a fairly conservative interpretation of morality in general

i.e. no premarital sex, abortion is either morally wrong or morally debatable at best (depends on circumstances), see the decline of the traditional nuclear family as a problem, etc. Basically, when freeps talk about their little "culture war" issues, I'm inclined to agree with them.

The difference is I don't want to let my own beliefs turn into Talibanism. I also recognize that these are 'wedge issues,' used to manipulate the sheeple.

[Duncan Grant]

32. Would you agree that morality is a cultural construct?

You write: <Basically, when freeps talk about their little "culture war" issues, I'm inclined to agree with them.>

I'm afraid we differ on that point, chair094. Segregation was the accepted norm until recently (historically speaking). That was imho, simply a cultural construct.

When freeps talk about gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender issues, I don't agree with them at all. I believe this is simply a cultural construct that should be examined and held to higher standards of reason (and not dependent on emotional or religious appeals).

[strategery blunder]

33. GLBT issues are the exception to that rule of thumb.

No one should have to experience that sort of discrimination.

From my original post: "Let God determine the morality of it."

I suppose I should apply this standard to everything else, too. However, premarital sex and stuff like that are a matter of personal choice. Homosexuality is far less clear than that (there is quite a bit of evidence pointing to biological differences in the brain), and therefore far more of a grey area for me. This is why I don't trust myself to make any strong moral judgement on the issue.

[Duncan Grant]

36. Sounds fair to me.

Although in all fairness, I should say that I think my orientation is all about personal choice.

I'm not a follower of the 'essentialist' school (which seems to source some biological arguments about orientation) but many g/l/b/t DUers are. And, I have no real disagreement with your post(s).

Hope you continue to enjoy your time here at DU! I for one would love to hear more about your political observations regarding Missouri in the coming weeks (if you care to share them). Cheers, chair094!

[Rowdyboy]

34. Okay, lets look at your issues

"no premarital sex" Good luck with enforcement! How many people do you actually believe maintain their virginity until marriage? Should they? Well, the better question is, can you stop them and how...

"Abortion is wrong or debatable" I think its an issue for a woman and her doctor and no business of the governments. Merely being opposd to abortion doesn't prevent one from being a Democrat, however, and you have a right to yours.

"see the decline of the nuclear family as a problem" So what? So do I. When fools like Brittany Spears mock marriage by their offensive shenanigans, I am sickened. My partner and I have been together, monogamously, for fifteen years yet I'm told we threaten heterosexual marriage. Do you agree?

I guess what I'm saying is, you'll know soon enough if you belong...

[strategery blunder]

35. I didn't say that I would turn this country into a theocracy over it

Good luck with enforcement!...Well, the better question is, can you stop them and how...

In fact, I said the exact opposite: The difference is I don't want to let my own beliefs turn into Talibanism.

No, I won't go as far as the freeps go...

[Rowdyboy]

37. Oh, I know, and we definitely don't want

a theocracy here. I think you're petty well positioned here, personally.

[EstimatedProphet]

25. I vote you can stay

At least until your eves go blank and you start to mumble "I will do what Dubya says"...
:)

[Bertha Venation]

27. about your number 8

I was a fundamentalist Christian until about age 30 (I'm 41). I'm now something of a spiritual mutt; within that mix is the fact that I'm a follower of Christ.

Sometimes I wonder if folks think I'm a freeper mole because I angrily denounce anti-Christian sentiment here. I just don't think it's right to blast anyone for their religious beliefs. It's like any other opinion: as long as no one uses it to harm another or to break any laws, leave them alone.

I suppose if anyone thinks for a moment that this might make me a freeper plant, they're quickly dissuaded of the notion when they remember I'm a lesbian. :shrug:

I think you belong here. Don't let anyone chase you off.