Listening to Amy Winehouse's posthumous album, "Lioness"

[Taverner]

Damn she had a voice

Such a tragedy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZd7mqOqJ60

[some guy]

1. meh,

She did have a great voice.

It's not a tragedy if you're walking to the edge of the cliff, knowing full well that you're walking to the edge of the cliff and that when you go over, you'll die.

That's what she chose. It needs nor deserves no sympathy.

[Taverner]

2. Cold. And harsh.

That's the thing about addiction - the addict can't control themselves. The addict sometimes doesn't even really know.

And she had quid all drugs but alcohol. Unfortunately, she still did benders - and tragically she died.

[some guy]

4. Tell me

how no one ever tried to help her, how she had no options, never got a chance.


Then maybe I'll start believing that her death might be a tragedy. :shrug:

[Taverner]

5. No empathy

I disagree that you have to earn your empathy

You sound like a teabagger

[some guy]

6. I have empathy.

I don't think it has to be earned.

There is a lot about Ms Winehouse I don't know, but whatever her demons were, she is free of them now.

That may seem harsh, but it also seems to be what she wanted. There were people willing to help her, so how is it a tragedy that she rejected them and did what she wanted?

[Taverner]

7. The first rule about addicts is that they cannot control themselves. That's what makes them addicts.

As opposed to people who have developed a dependence.

Also - she did accept help. But it was one drug at a time for her, and it was her final drug that killed her.

[some guy]

8. Thanks for making my point for me.

She accepted help because she knew she was an addict.

Arguably, she walked away from that same help before she should have. But it was her choice to do so.

I've been "done" for a long time with the idea that famous people, especially in the music business, who die young are "tragic figures."

Holliday
Hendrix
Joplin
Morrison
Bolin
Curtis
Cobaine
Winehouse

Yeah, they all died young. But they all could have got help for whatever demons they had, and chose not to.

You want tragic deaths?
Buddy Holly
Duane Allman
Marc Bolan
Ronnie Van Zant
Toy Caldwell
etc.
etc.

They all died young too. I'm pretty sure they'd have all preferred to live longer. The first list, no so much.

[Taverner]

9. And you think this isn't tragic? Worthy of empathy? Sympathy?

[some guy]

10. You rebutted nothing from my post. n/t

[nolabear]

12. How about if I rebut your post?

It's a tragedy for Amy Winehouse's family and friends, for those who loved her and lost her. It's a tragedy in terms of lost potential and lost beauty--her music had the capacity to inspire other musicians and to perhaps change the lives of those who aspire to create. It's a tragedy because the horror of her addiction might frighten others from becoming something more than they are.

And it's a human life lost. Tragedy revlves around loss and hers is a big one, whether it makes you personally upset or not.

As to addiction, I'm well acquainted it from the professional side. The process begins accidentally, and many of us can take the same course of action with results we can just walk away from. Others have a combination of physiology that promotes physical addiction and extreme dysregulation of affect so that trying to quit creates a state of anxiety that they are convinced only drinking or using will help. This is often at a level of reaction that is not in words but in need to act (almost like getting an erection and trying not to believe that sex would fix that, but times a million). Addicts have a very hard time self soothing, sometimes because of the whole combination of life/neurophysiology/neuropsychology and later because the addiction gets to be a circuit.

Longwinded but the gist is, she died because she couldn't kick the substances that killed her. If you think you can just quit, congratulations. You're not an addict.

[bigwillq]

13. Great last line.

:thumbsup:

[some guy]

14. Sure, go ahead.

:)

I'll agree with your first sentence, and note that her death is no different in that regard from any other, so why single her out as though it is?

Your second sentence is too long-winded; she left music behind, so the only real loss is potential music. The music she recorded retains its beauty and capacity to inspire.

Your third sentence doesn't make sense to me at all. :shrug:

As to the whole addiction thing, I already wrote that she arguably walked away from the proffered help before she should have.

The general theme in this thread seems to be it's a tragedy because of what "we" lost. My point was and remains, she chose her path, and she no longer has whatever demons she had in this life.

I'm okay with respecting her choices and not wanting more from her than she was willing to give.

[nolabear]

19. Well, sorry you don't understand. Perhaps someone else can help you.

[some guy]

20. I don't need help, but thanks anyway.

3 or 4 years ago it was common knowledge / prediction that if she didn't change her behavior she would die young.

Do you think no one ever told her that? She didn't change her behavior, so she died young. As far as I can tell, she got what she wanted, so how is it a tragedy?

Five years ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=7203784

Apr 2008
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=7660674

[Taverner]

21. I'll argue with you that she didn't accept help - she DID

She had cut her drug use down to one - meaning quitting heroin, meth, coke and all the deviations in between.

The drug that killed her was a legal one, btw.

She drank herself to death, but was trying to quit her addictions, one by one...

[some guy]

22. We've done this

see post 7 & 8

[Gormy Cuss]

23. You really don't understand addiction.

Period.

[some guy]

24. I do.

Apparently she didn't.

People told her for years, if you keep feeding your addictions, you're going to die young.
Sh stopped for a while, or stopped feeding some of her addictions, but she either went back to them, or never stopped feeding all of them.

Thus she died. It was predictable and predicted.


Addiction - mine is perhaps, fairly easy fairly benign. I'm a nicotine addict.

I haven't had a cigarette in almost two years. I am still only one cigarette away from a two pack a day "habit."
I will never be more than one cigarette away from a two pack a day habit.

[unionworks]

16. BRAVO! N/T

[graywarrior]

3. Agreed, Taverner

[Inchworm]

11. Yup

:(

[unionworks]

15. When Amy Died

I went to her homepage. The black and white beautiful portrait spoke directly to me. "Oh, hi, Asshole! So nice of you to finally notice my music, after it cost me my life! You have great taste"! Then I listened to one of her songs. An another. And another. And then I wept.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. agreed.

sad :(

[TreasonousBastard]

18. As I read the comments about her, I am reminded that the whole point of "tragedy" is...

a good person just can't avoid, and sometimes even helps, the terrible things that will happen to her.

Reread Macbeth, and pay particular attention to the concept of the tragic flaw.

(BTW-- listen to her interpretation of "The Girl From Ipanema" She does the song proud.)