My opinion on the Nice Guys vs. Jerks debate.

[Evoman]

It's an idea I come across so often on the internet, that I just had to comment on it. Here is a link to my blog and a quick excerpt outlining what I think would help make a guy more attractive. What do you think? Feel free to flame..lol


http://thedanarchist.blogspot.com/2011/05/nice-guys-vs-jerks-why-you-are-wrong.html

"The very first thing I learned....it's going to blow your fucking mind. You ready for it? You ready to learn the secret that will change your life? Here you go....
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WOMEN ARE PEOPLE.

Fucking nuts, I know. They eat, piss, and shit like the rest of us. They pick their noses. Some of them probably even eat the stuff they pick. There are smart women, dumb women, women that probably are too good for you, women that look like they are too good for you but aren't, and women that don't deserve you. Women, like you Mr. Nice Guy, are attracted to different things, and most of them make complete sense. They tend to be attracted to people who are confident, fun, a little edgy, funny, daring, interesting, opinionated, and who have nice physiques. Look at yourself and see if you have these qualities. Women, like men, also tend to ignore bad qualities if the person has the good qualities they are looking for.

That is, they are willing to put up with Jerky behaviour, if that behaviour comes along with some other attractive qualities. If you are nice, but exhibit none of the other attractive qualities, what is the point of dating you?

Some other things I've learned....I put them in list form because people love lists. I bet you some of you actually didn't read the whole article and just skipped to this. Well, go back up and get some context....then finish reading this. Here we go:

1) Nice guys are boring as shit. Be more fun.

2)It's not about being an asshole, it's about being interesting. At least assholes are entertaining, not like boring old nice guys.

3) The key to being able to attract a women, and not be a complete douche, is to treat her well (which is NOT the same thing as being a rug she walks all over or a kiss ass), but keep an edge. Some mystery. Some independence. Some interest.

4) If you are telling her how much you like her on the first date, you are doing it wrong.

5) If you are not making your intentions clear, and instead just try to "friend her until she likes you", you are doing it wrong. She knows you are after sex and/or a relationship. Might as well be clear.

6) If you do everything she asks, not matter what it is (including compromising your principles or integrity), you are doing it wrong.

7) Being a jerk is not necessary. I'll never understand why most guys take one extreme or the other. A woman should never be treated as a goddess or as a meaningless ho. She should be treated as a person. Crazy, ain't it.

8) Don't bring flowers on a first date. Also, don't bring flavored condoms. Like I said...careful with the extremes.

9)Women don't usually bite or laugh at you when you ask them out. The worst thing most of them do if you ask for numbers is say no or give you a wrong number. Don't be so afraid of rejection.

10)Go to the gym. Excercise. Eat some vegetables. You'll feel better AND be more attractive.

11)Wash your hair. Brush your teeth. I wish I didn't have to write this stuff down but some morons just don't get it. Women aren't usually attracted to greasy haired nerds with bad breath.

12)Attracting women or men isn't about not being yourself. It's about being the best you that you can be.

13) Don't fixate on one woman. Seriously, if she is your friend, but never wants to date you, then give it the fuck up. She is probably never going to date you.

14) Don't be afraid of being a bit offensive. Women like dirty jokes just as much as we do. They also like to be teased every now and then. Women can be horrible people too, and that's why they are so much fun.

15) Okay, bring the flavored condoms just in case...just keep them out of sight."

[blue neen]

1. Actually, I think the list is pretty good.

Common sense, but sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees! :)

[dawg]

2. You know, I used to worry about this crap.

Single again, after many years. Worried about being unappealing to women. Worried about being one of the "nice guys".

But, the more I think about it, I can be kind of a jerk at times. If I have any trouble attracting women, it'll probably be because of my jerkishness in ruling out perfectly good single women who I just don't want to date. My pickyness. My deal-breakers.

Don't get me wrong. I can be real sweet, and would make someone a very good boyfriend. But if it doesn't happen, it won't be because I was too nice.

[dawg]

6. Also.

"Spite" is not a good reason to try and find a girlfriend.

[Evoman]

8. Completely agree.

[mikeytherat]

3. I never really understood the debate.

It always seems the two choices are:
Nice Guy: Nerdy, engineer-type, lives with mom, boring.

Total Douchebag: Scuzzy bad-boy likely to get you shot during a meth deal gone sour.

I think most dudes fall between the extremes.

mikey_the_rat

[Evoman]

5. Yep, and many of those guys get into relationships pretty easy.

That being said, I've known way to many of those nerdy kind of guys who just have it all wrong. They assume that all guys who get girls are jerks. Maybe its projection, I don't know. That's why I wrote this...I'm really kind of sick of that delusion. I want the nerds/nice guys to learn something.

[raccoon]

4. All I can say is

:popcorn:

[Evoman]

7. Ha...I wish. Looks like this thread will die a quick death.

:P

[seabeyond]

12. shoulda

put it in gd....

[kimi]

9. I see your points very clearly, thanks.

My contribution: I recently was "dumped" by a guy who I thought was a seriously decent dude. He came off as nice, funny, sweet, decent-looking but not drop-dead looks. He had an okay job but I wasn't interested in him for his career, he was just fun to be with and he treated me nicely at first. Turns out that he could treat me "nicely" cause he was totally fixated on a woman who he'd put on a pedestal years ago and he never intended taking her off that pedestal. He'd never been honest about that, only told me about this after I was totally into the relationship. In retrospect, I'd rather have him be a jerk and be honest, than be a decent guy and try to "spare" my feelings, which in the end just devastated me. I will not look at "nice" guys the same way again, I'll always wonder what they may be hiding.

Just my 2 cents FWIW.

[Evoman]

10. Wow, that's exactly where I'm coming from.

You see, that's another problem of the so called nice guy. Even when he has a shot with a decent girl, he'll often fixate on some girl who keeps putting him off to go out with "jerks". The irony of a guy complaining that girls don't like nice guys, who fixates on a gal that's often a "girl jerk" is lost on them.

Thank you for your story.

[kimi]

16. Hah, yeah!

Ya know, when this guy finally admitted it, he said that this chick would never take him back but that he'd give her every chance to, so he wanted to "keep his options open". Which kinda blew my mind. A mutual friend - another guy who knows both of them - was pretty exasperated by this guy's attitude, said that the woman has no serious intent in her mind about any guy, ever. So I was left just feeling completely confused - it really messed up my attitude towards guys and relationships in general, never mind the so-called "nice guy".

I won't trust the "nice-guy" definition or title again. I prefer a guy who's honest and is himself. If he's not-so-nice sometimes - yeah, that's cool, as long as there's no abuse or putting down, I can deal. And I do love a dirty joke, too. :D

[seabeyond]

11. it works for me. but then, i fell in love with your reasoning long ago. my son

a couple years ago is the first i heard about this issue. in all my silliness i didnt know i was supposed to be attracted to men that treated me like shit. blew me away. and regardless of the number of times i said i never allowed anyone in my circle that was not respectful, it was ignored, and insisted ALL women like ugly treatment.

then a male poster who use to be a wallflower type nice guy wrote a post on his responsibility in it all. and once he got out there, took the risks, continued to be nice, he was hot property and that whole myth flew to the wayside.

i really appreciated his post because i has a young teen son who is oh so nice and respectful. shy, even. and about that time he made a comment about the nice guy syndrome. i read the post to my son.

my son is smart, and listens, and thinks.

now a couple years later he is still nice. he just is. likes being nice. and he is respectful to girls. and

they trust him

he has girls all over, after him. he has girls from other schools talking about him

and still he is shy. and nice. and working at putting self out there. and going against his shy to go out with girls and be a part

BEST advice anyone gave my son

so whoever the poster is, i do not remember

thank you

[Evoman]

13. lol...was it me?

I wrote something about a year ago that you said you were going to show your son. This post used some of that DU content (may have been a little longer ago...got a message from you in nov 09).

[seabeyond]

15. isnt that funny

i think you were the first one to talk to me about this. give me this perspective. it was so valuable in talking to my boys. not having that understanding of the issue, and they talk to me about so much. but the simple thought of putting self out there. there was another poster later.

i dont think i can ever see you as a wallflower. lol.

but i thank you for that.

that is what i mean, i have really appreciated your take on the few threads i have seen you on. feet on the ground.

[applegrove]

14. I've never had time for jerks. And the nice guys I know are very interesting. They know a lot about

world.

[JackDragna]

17. Fine post. To me, I think nice guys do finish first..

..but, to me, a "nice guy" is someone who is honest about his intentions and has seen enough of the world and the lives of other people to have a genuine measure of empathy. Virtually every man I've known who's complained about being passed over for being "nice" has a very low opinion of women.

[safeinOhio]

18. There is a lid for

every pot. I'm just one of those odd sizes.

[MrScorpio]

19. Excellent list

I APPROVE!

[meow2u3]

20. Here's my take on the nice guy/bad boy crap

This is coming from a woman.

Good girls like nice guys; chicks dig bad boys; but real women love good men!

[Xithras]

21. As a guy, in my experience, #'s 5 & 9 are the most important.

I've found that the guys who complain the MOST about the whole "nice guys finish last" thing tend to have the least self confidence, and are often the worst at making their intentions clear. My friends 18 year old son was whining about his "friend" passing him over for "yet another jerk" recently, so I asked him if he'd ever made it clear that he was interested in her. "No." And why not? "Because she'll probably say no, and then we won't be friends either." He assumed that she'd figure it out on her own and choose him because he was always there for her. He couldn't comprehend that life isn't a movie, and that real dating just doesn't work that way.

The world is full of poorly groomed unattractive jerks who are in poor physical shape...and yet STILL have girlfriends. There is a match out there for EVERYONE, and in the age of the Internet, he/she is easier to find than ever. The only caveat is that you MUST know and be clear about what you want, and you MUST have the self confidence to pursue it. Ignoring the rest of the list, if you can master those two things, you WILL find someone.

[BlueStater]

22. Uh, who says you can't be "nice" and "fun"? n/t

[wysimdnwyg]

23. All I ever needed to know about women

I learned from Unknown Hinson.

http://youtu.be/4IL_pbFbYK0

http://youtu.be/4LJf9fYM8-s

[Luciferous]

24. Might seem harsh to some, but I think you made some very

good observations.

[Yavin4]

25. You Nailed It. I Would Add Something Else.

Above all else, be comfortable with yourself. Once you like yourself, you will be able to attract women, and even if you don't, then you can still find happiness.

[NewJeffCT]

26. I'm a pretty nice guy overall and I've done okay for myself

my teens through my mid to late 20s were pretty miserable dating-wise for me. However, my ex-wife was very attractive, and my second wife was not only very attractive, but also has two master's degrees.

[TK421]

27. I'm looking for a woman who hates everyone, just like I do

I'm having some trouble here...

[seabeyond]

28. skittle is always out to kick some ass. nt

[TK421]

29. hmmm...you may have something there!

:D