My dog has a knee ligament tear - I'm so bummed

[TorchTheWitch]

My big beastie has a torn knee ligament (probably the anterior cruciate ligament) and it's probably completely ruptured. I don't even know how it happened and not even sure exactly when. I would have thought that such a thing would be immediate especially since I tore a ligament in one of my own knees way back in high school, and UGH you bloody well know it when it happens... I swear I even heard it, and I was immediately down and out. Not so with the dog. He had some limping that came and went in that leg for months but he also had some sort of infection or something going on in between two of his toes on that leg's foot, but the vet wasn't convinced that the toe crud was entirely the culprit and suspected a knee injury when I took him in when I first noticed his reluctance to put weight on that leg a few months ago.

For the past two weeks his knee has been swelled up like a pumpkin and he doesn't use that leg at all... it's almost as though he doesn't realize he has that leg. Strangely, he's never seemed to have any pain. Well, obviously he must be having some discomfort if he won't use it, but he doesn't have pain just generally. He always makes the whole world know loud and clear if he has a boo-boo (which is why I call him Boo in the first place) and I'd be shocked beyond belief if he's got any pain and is pretending he's perfectly fine and just has this extra fourth leg dangling there for no reason. He's certainly acting like he's perfectly fine and just has this mysterious extra fourth leg dangling there for no reason.

He's on a pain and anti-inflammatory med now and his exercise has to be restricted... he's HATING that. He eats his pills no problem (hell, he'll eat anything) but he just hates being restricted in playing and walks. Especially with all this glorious snow and ice around everywhere (HE thinks it's glorious - not ME). Until the slip and fall disaster of snow and ice that my yard has become melts I have to take him out on the leash to do his bidness, and he's PISSED that all he's allowed to do is Hop Along Cassidy on three legs slowly just to do his bidness and go right back in the house. Trying to keep him away from all the Matterhorn mountains of snow and slick lumpy ice is practically a comedy. WHY does he not want to travel on the nice clean flat surfaces and constantly makes a bee-line for the most treacherous terrain??? And as worried as I am about him slipping and falling it's always me that ends up on my butt... happened again tonight and I have full use of all my limbs plus a great pair of Timberlands with massive rubber waffle soles. And of course when that happens he just has to rub it in by looking back at me with the snarky impatient expression that says "well now, that was damn clumsy of you... walk much?".

Now he's starting to try blackmailing me into taking him out on the leash more often and farther afield... "Don't want to let me race around and climb all over the place for miles? Then I'll just stand here in the yard and glare at you and refuse to pee or poop until you do... or refuse to finish my dinner and ignore any lovely treats you try to ply me with just to make you worry that I'll lose too much weight and then maybe pick them out of the trash later when you aren't around just to piss you off... or hop recklessly up and down the stairs while you're sleeping... or sneak up behind you while you're leaning over scrubbing the bathtub and shove my giant head in your ass thereby plunging you head first into the tub... make no mistake about it, lady, I'll come up with something new and clever every day and twice on Sunday to get my way". That last one about the bathtub he didn't quite think out well enough because on three legs he's not as quick and agile getting away from me after my scrambling out of the tub as he would have been with all four legs. Ha!

I'm terrified he's going to blow out the opposite leg and that's really common with dogs with this injury. Why does he not seem to understand that he's seriously injured? Why doesn't he want to curl up in a corner and be lazy and lick his wounds making me wait on him hand and foot?

I'm so bummed this happened to my poor beastie, but why oh why can't he understand that he's injured and needs to take it easy? Is it so much to ask that he act like he's seriously hurt when he is? This dog is amazingly brilliant yet also unbelievably stupid... a really bizarre combination.

[lukasahero]

1. Is he a Lab?

Just saying, he sounds like a Lab. "why can't he understand that he's injured" -- yeah, sounds like a Lab. ;)

I'm sorry for you and your buddy. Been there, done that (yes, with a Lab!) It's tough especially in winter but hang in there - you'll get through.

:hug:

[TorchTheWitch]

5. No, he's an Akita though labs are great doggies

It's almost scary how very much my previous Akita and this one are the same in many ways yet also completely opposite in others. Injury would be one of them. The previous one would be stoic and perservering about an injury whereas Boo always makes a great loud fuss over the slightest of bumps just to get sympathy, but my previous Akita would have realized he needed to be careful and would rest himself whereas Boo acts like there's nothing at all wrong with him and for some reason has this extra fourth leg dangling from him that's not really supposed to be there. He's even also seeming to be almost trying to prove himself like how he insists on going straight for the most impossible terrain to travel along when a nice clean flat surface is RIGHT THERE and instead of one walk at night he wants to do several. Ok, necessity means keeping the walks short, but overall he wants to do more traveling on three legs then he ever cared about on all four.

And the fool just hopped his way quietly upstairs (he's learned to do it quietly so I might not catch him at it) just to get a drink of water from the bathtub faucet when I JUST put a nice clean bowl right out of the dishwasher of fresh water only a few feet away from him to drink from not even an hour ago.

[Biker13]

2. We Have A Lab...

that did the same thing, tore her ACL and meniscus! It was corrected surgically, and now she's doing great, with almost no limp at all. Is that a possibility for Boo? The recovery is awful,we had to keep an eye on her 24/7,and it took weeks before she could be let out in the yard on her own. It was well worth it though. Has your Vet suggested this?

Biker's Old Lady

[TorchTheWitch]

6. surgery is really out of the question

I couldn't even begin to pay for it and if I did have the money I'd need to spend it on my teeth. We're not yet sure if it's even ruptured completely or not... I just think it probably is because of his symptoms. He doesn't even want to try doing the drawer test until all that swelling goes down. Apparently, the swelling would keep the tibia from sliding forward like a drawer that's the big indication of a complete rupture, so the odds of getting a false negative are very high while it's still swelled up like this. As I understand it, in order to perform the drawer test successfully, the leg needs to be so relaxed and floppy most dogs require sedation for it. We're kind of in a wait and see period at the moment.

The surgery doesn't have a very good success rate in the first place, and that really arduous recovery period like you mentioned even contributes a whole lot to the odds that they'll blow out the opposite leg thereby requiring another surgery. Even for people surgery is often a last resort kind of thing. He mentioned one of his family members has been going through this and after nearly a year their doc still doesn't recommend surgery and that's for a person rather than a dog. I'm so happy you were able to get the surgery for your doggie and that it's worked out well. From all I've been reading on the subject, it seems a whole lot depends on the attitude and personality of the dog when it comes to success rather than the state of the injury. Unfortunately, Boo is probably just about the worst candidate when it comes to attitude and personality with that terrible recovery they need to go through.

Incidentally, my vet is the same one that operated on Oogy (that poor mangled bait doggie that was on Oprah) and continues to treat him for free, so I have all the confidence in the world in these folks in whatever they recommend. I've been using both Dr. B and Dr. P there for nearly two decades (the two are kind of interchangeable as far as I'm concerned) and there just are no other vets more marvelous.

Out of curiousity... do you have a smaller breed dog? From everything I'm reading (I have spent countless hours reading up on everything about this injury) smaller breed doggies have a much much higher success rate when it comes to the surgery. Seems like the larger the dog the less likely of a successful outcome over the long haul and the higher the odds that they blow out the opposite leg.

I really hate the wait and see thing. I'm no good with waiting and seeing. I'd rather know absolutely even if it is really bad than waiting and seeing.

Boo just sat in his water bowl. Now, why does he do this? Is it really soooooo vital that he has to drink directly from the bathtub faucet??? He did this the very first thing when I first brought him home as a pup. He even looked at me with the same expression as the time I first brought him home and he did that... "This right? Is little bathtubby, yes?". He's smart enough to have taught himself how to turn on the faucet to get a drink, but he's too stupid to realize that a water bowl is not a bitty mini tubby and trying to swim in it will not likely result in a satisfying outcome.

[Biker13]

10. We Have A Lab.

She's a big one, too.

She never had the swelling you describe with Boo, so it was a very different situation it seems. I know you're doing the best you can for your friend, it's obvious from your posts that you're a GREAT Mom!

Our Lab is extremely active, we're in a rural area, with a huge fenced yard and only a few miles from a wilderness area. She's used to a very active life, so that had a lot to do with our decision to have the surgery done. I know what you mean about the expense, believe me! We were fortunate enough to have a Vet that cared more for the dog than the money, and charged us basically only for the cost of the surgery. I swear this woman is a saint!

Please keep me posted on Boo's progress! PM if you need too, I really care about what you and Boo are going through!

Biker's Old Lady

[madmax]

13. Awe Sweetie,

The love for your fur baby just shines like a laser through your post. If I had the money I would pay for his operation. :hug:

[hippywife]

3. Hope he's better soon!

It's so hard to see them in pain. :hug:

[one_voice]

4. Oh I'm sorry...

One of my beasts did the same thing about two years ago. Vet thought she was gonna need surgery, but it healed on its own. She took the anti-inflammatory and pain meds too. Your baby sounds worse though, Izzie didn't stop using the leg completely, she limped. And it was all I could do to keep her from trying race around the yard with her playmate, Lulu.

Dogs seem to heal quicker than humans. I hope this is the case for your baby! Sending healing vibes to your boo and sanity vibes to you!

[TorchTheWitch]

8. Did she have this pumpkin swelling?

When this first started a few months ago it was just limping and what they call "toe touching" where when they're just standing they have a tendency to keep lifting the foot of that leg and touching it to the ground. It was really difficult to diagnose because at the same time he had that little inflamed area from a skin problem way in between two of his toes on the foot of that leg, and even a slight little problem with the foot like that - even a ragged toenail - can make them do that. The vet just wasn't really convinced at that time that the toe problem was entirely responsible. Dogs are so darn different in how the react to an injury... where one dog will ignore it completely another would refuse to use the leg at all. They can even have purely psychological reasons for lameness.

So, in hindsight it looks like what was really going on was that there was already a small tear at that time and he tore it worse and may have ruptured it completely recently with it already being in a fragile state. It just really baffles me that it wasn't a sudden and immediate thing when it "went" especially since that's just how it was with my own knee and anyone else I know that has torn a ligament. The amount of swelling puzzles me too. When I blew out my knee there wasn't much swelling, but GOD it HURT. And I've had sprained ankles that blew up like a damn balloon but were only slightly bothersome to walk on.

The seeming lack of pain weirds me out out, too. He even does use the leg every once in awhile with no indication whatsoever that even putting full weight on it hurts. Just last night during a bathroom stroll he wasn't in the right position to pee standing on his good leg so he put his full weight on the injured one and lifted the good one to pee... with no indication at all that it hurt. Yet every time he does the "poopy crouch" and needs to balance with the injured leg he's very hesitant about putting it on the ground, and even more strange, doesn't want to put the bottom of his foot on the ground but curls his toes and uses the top part of his foot. What the heck is THAT? I've searched that foot thoroughly and don't see anything that all that could be wrong with it. Baffling.

He bends the knee all the way, stretches it out all the way, lies down on top of it, I can squeeze it pretty darn firmly (I'm afraid to do much more) with no indication whatsoever that it hurts him. I'm actually wondering if massaging it might be helpful... I'll have to call the vet and ask about that. Maybe so, because he did mention that one the best things for it is hydrotherapy. Which makes sense because isn't that what athletes do? Do whirlpool baths?

I don't know. Sometimes I think maybe it's not that bad and other times I think it's the worst possible thing. I'd be so happy if I saw just a tiny hint of improvement. Boo is sick to death of me constantly examining him. He's starting to give me the fish eye look whenever he knows I'm about to go peeking and prodding again... "ugh, come on mommy, it hasn't changed in the past two hours for heaven's sake!". He's right though... I'm getting ridiculous about this. I just hate this wait and see game... I always so much rather just KNOW even if it's really bad.

Thanks for the good vibes!

[texanwitch]

7. That happened to my dog, she liked to jump a lot.

It took all summer but she healed and it just fine.

The hard part is trying to keep them still.

I found a yahoo group that dealt with this problem.

This group may still be around.

They were very helpful, and my dog is just fine now.

[TorchTheWitch]

9. did she have all this swelling or not use the leg at all?

I'll be so thrilled if this is something that can heal ok on its own. This seems to be a very common injury for dogs that are very active... jumping, pivoting and that sort of thing which is so "him". I guess this is why althletes are so prone to this kind of injury especially those pivoting movements like football and basketball players do so much.

And you're so right that the hardest thing is keeping them still! I'm pulling my hair out with one thing.

How does one go about finding a particular yahoo group? I never figured out how that all worked. Thanks for mentioning this, I think I'd like to look into it.

[texanwitch]

11. She had a little swelliing I gave her some herbs to stop the swelling.

This group used herbs for healing.

I will try to find it for you, I used google the first time.

You would never know my dog was injured now, she walks just fine.

[texanwitch]

12. Here is something, don't know if this is the same one.

Dealing with Cruciate Ligament Injuries in Labrador Retrievers A dog's CCL is similar to the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in humans. ... Visit orthodogs at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodogs/ ... When the meniscus is torn, the knee will make a characteristic popping sound when the dog is ...
www.woodhavenlabs.com/ccl-injuries.html - Cached - Similar

I will look somemore.

[mopinko]

14. dogs and pain.

it can be strange. i have a boxer that i adopted from the pound. she was skin and bones when i brought her home. she seemed to favor on back leg a little when she went down stairs and kinda dragged up with on her front legs when getting up on a the couch or bed. we just assumed she had taken some sort of knock. she didn't seem bothered and we didn't worry about it. when my daughter moved in with her stout mutt, and they charged each other and slammed each other the boxer started to act more like she was really in pain. when we xrayed her, we found out that the ball at the top of her legs looked like moon rocks. and they are starting to eat into her pelvis.
but you would really never know to see her run and play. she acts like a puppy. she adjusted to the knocks from her cousin, who has since moved out. it just doesn't seem to connect to her brain, aside from being a little slow to get up in the morning and when climbing onto my bed.
dogs are amazing.