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Paragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:38 PM
Original message
I use hyphens, ellipses, and semicolons too much
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 04:38 PM by Paragon
So what I'm asking is this: what would be the best way to tighten up my grammar...so I don't write so much like I speak -- any ideas?

:)
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd be glad to help;
however...I am not entirely sure what it is that's giving you problems. Maybe if you used more...examples...or something...

;)
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is a conversational forum ...
So I wouldn't sweat it too much ... I happen to do the same thing when I post--I think it's because we aren't typing a draft, setting it aside, revising it ... etc. So, why worry? :)

Am I wrong?
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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. You need more semicolons.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. I love ellipses and I'm glad you use them correctly.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. We love you for it... I do it too.. I am especially fond of
...

:)
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Get yourself a copy of "The Chicago Manual of Style,"
along with E.B. White's crucial little tome, "The Elements of Style."

Just because the average idiot doesn't understand semicolons doesn't mean you have to be afraid of them when you're writing.

I'd rewrite your sentence in this way: "So what I'm asking is this: What would be the best way to tighten up my grammar so that I don't write the way I speak? Any ideas?"
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Strunk and White
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 05:52 PM by klook
I've worked as a professional writer and editor for several years (mostly small-time periodicals and business writing, nothing to brag about), so maybe I could offer some advice.

Are you familiar with The Elements of Style by William Strunk and E.B. White? This book talks some about use of punctuation among many other useful subjects. I don't have it handy, but based on my experience, people sometimes use punctuation to indicate timing, pauses, etc. Often it's not necessary.

In your post, all I would change is taking out the ellipsis, like this:

So what I'm asking is this: what would be the best way to tighten up my grammar so I don't write so much like I speak -- any ideas?

Or you could put a question mark after "speak" and have "Any ideas?" as a sentence, even though my high school English teacher would have counted off for that.

I checked some of your other posts, and they looked fine to me. Often--particularly in an informal setting like DU--writing like you speak is not a bad thing. It can be a good way to hook readers in and make them feel comfortable with your prose.

Of course, if you're talking about more formal writing, as for publication, you would probably want to be more cautious.

Another good reference is The Careful Writer by Theodore M. Bernstein. It's wide-ranging, comprehensive, and often funny, which never hurts. Also excellent are these writing books by Karen Elizabeth Gordon: The Transitive Vampire (grammar) and The Well-Tempered Sentence (punctuation). Gordon's books are a ton of fun and very lucid and informative.

I guess as far as the punctuation thing goes (my English teacher is cringing in her grave over that phrase!), I'd get familiar with the uses of commas, dashes, parentheses, and ellipses.

Forgive me if I'm covering familiar territory here.

You should use the ellipsis to indicate a deletion from quoted material, not a pause or a trailing off of thought. For example: Clarke told Stahl, "I blame the entire Bush leadership for continuing to work on Cold War issues...in 2001. It was as though they were preserved in amber...." (Note that the second one, the "terminal ellipsis," has four periods because there's the ellipsis to indicate missing material and then the period at the end of the sentence.)

By the way, I would never criticize you for calling the ellipsis "the thing with three dots," although my English teacher would. (I would also never criticize you for calling the hyphen "the thing with two dots.")

Also, dashes, parentheses, and "parenthetical commas" are used to set off material. They have different shades of meaning. Dashes tend to emphasize the information, parentheses tend to de-emphasize it, and commas are usually more neutral. At least that's the theory I was taught, and it seems to hold up most of the time.

For example:

Scalia flung back his fishing rod to cast into the river--not bothering to look around him--and promptly embedded his fishing lure in Cheney's head.

Condoleeza Rice (who was recently appointed a professor emeritus at the University of Satan) professes an admiration for Ku Klux Klan founder Stonewall Jackson.

Bush, whose administration has run up a record national debt, continues to blast Kerry for looking French.

Anyway, I've probably given you 20 gallons when all you wanted was an ounce, but I hope this is of some use.

Mainly, my advice is to get familiar enough with mechanics and rules so that they don't get in the way, but then focus your energies on subject matter above all else. And don't be afraid to produce what Anne Lamott so eloquently refers to as "shitty first drafts."

Keep on writin'.
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Paragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Just went through my library...
I don't have Strunk & White anymore, but I do still have the 13th edition (1995) of The Heath Handbook.

Have there been any breakthroughs in grammar in the last 9 years? ;-)
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Heh
No, I don't think there've been any significant developments in English grammar in the last decade--at least the rules of "formal" composition. Or maybe there have been and I was too busy focusing on more important things like Janet Jackson's anatomy.

I'm not familiar with The Heath Handbook. How is it?
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Paragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'll have to flip through it again
I got it when it was on the syllabus at DePaul and never sold it back. Apparently, it's still used there - and the same edition. I believe it's used more at universities than anywhere else -- it's pretty comprehensive.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. UM
perhaps you think you use them too much because other people don't know how to use them and so they do not use them enough.
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Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. What-the-fuck...are you talking about;
I mean, I see nothing-wrong with your posts...

;
;
;
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