Need advice on how to have that , "I'm just 'not that in to you' conversation"

[Mind_your_head]

I've been out a several times with a guy who within the past year has lost his wife. He's a nice guy, I think he's a great friend, but that's kinda gonna be it for me. He's thinking that we can be *much more* (a couple/married) I'm pretty sure...and that's just not how I feel about him.

I'm dreading the "Let's just be friends" conversation that I must SOON have with him, but it must be so.

Guys especially, please weigh in here. What's the *kindest* way to have the "let's just be friends" conversation?

(Well, women as well...you know what I'm saying. How does one handle this situation 'nicely'?)

TIA

edit: punctuation

[abq e streeter]

1. having been on the receiving end of more of these than the one doing it,

all I can say is just be honest. There's a very real possibility that he'll be crushed ; I know I have been more than once, but it was even worse to be led on which has happened to me way too often. I resented that much more than the honest "I just don't feel that way about you" talk, which was bad enough. So in my opinion, just be as direct, compassionate and honest as you can...By the way, I've also had a few occasions where I have been on the receiving end, and took it very much in stride; told the woman I was honestly OK with it , even though I liked them a great deal, and in at least two of those cases, the woman changed her mind shortly afterward( within days) . So I also hope you're very sure that you have no feelings besides being friends. The backtracking after they saw I was ready to not be lovers ended up being a mess in both cases with months on end of back and forth between being lovers and just being friends, which I was weak and stupid enough to put up with ( for awhile, and finally got the strength to insist that they make up their minds).

[Political Heretic]

2. Don't be patronizing, just PLEASE just tell it quickly, truthfully and without excuses

Don't try to sugar coat it or beat around the bush. That makes things way worse. As a guy on the receiving end I can tell you that it is so much better when someone RESPECTS ME enough to just say "look I don't think this is working" or some variant thereof.

"I've had a great time getting to know you, and I wouldn't mind hanging out from time to time, but I'm not looking for anything more here."

Anything that is straight to the point and leaves no room for confusion.

[Mind_your_head]

5. Thank you. Men are very direct.....and they want to be dealt with/spoken to

plainly/directly....is what I understand you are sharing with me here.

Thank you for that perspective.

[LostInAnomie]

3. Simple: Don't have the "Let's just be friends" conversation.

Because it is a patronizing slap in the face. If you are going to dump someone, just be honest. Tell them they aren't right for you and you are sorry, but you are moving on. Don't dress it up with flowery language or platitudes about how great of a guy he is, how there are all kinds of women out there looking for someone like him, or how he'll find someone better. They are hurt and they don't want to here that bullshit.

I've never actually dated anyone that I've had actual feelings for that I would want to be friends with anyway. I doubt many people have.

[Mind_your_head]

6. Oh, c'mon....you can't be serious!

I've never actually dated anyone that I've had actual feelings for that I would want to be friends with anyway. I doubt many people have.

If what you posted is anywhere NEAR the truth, you better stop getting :LostInAnomie": and have the courage to start living in *reality* (which is a misnomer ;-) )

[LostInAnomie]

11. It's the truth though.

There are very few people that would be willing to take a backwards step like that. If you have actual feelings for someone and think you might have a future with them, the last hing you want to be told is "Let's just be friends". It's a patronizing platitude that forces the person being dumped to look like an asshole if they reject the "friendship". You have to give the person you dump the right to be pissed at you and not force them to accept something they don't really want.

The whole idea of "friends" is ridiculous anyway. Seriously, what is it even supposed to mean? You aren't going to hang out with them. You aren't going to do things together. You aren't going to confide in each other. You aren't going to do any of the usual entanglements that come with being friends. All it really means is "don't talk shit about me to our mutual friends" and "don't be shitty with me when we run into each other". It's a completely self serving tool of the one doing the dumping.

[Mind_your_head]

13. Well, that's not my experience......

I guess I look at/want/have friends both male & female :eyes: who don't look at me as a "sexual object:....I have value, knowledge, skills that I am willing to share ~ we produce a 'synergy' that is good for all of us.

[LostInAnomie]

14. Who is even talking about sex?

I'm just talking about someone that has feelings for another person. They are not going to want to move from a relationship (or potential relationship) back to "friend". Not sincerely anyway. Like I said in the previous post, a post relationship "friendship" is meaningless. You aren't going to sincerely take part in any of the things that actual friends do together. You aren't going to hang out, meet up with friends, or see each other at social events without there being an unspoken tension between the two of you. More than likely, you probably aren't going to talk much besides a few token "How are you doing?" conversations after you dump him.

If you really can't understand that, you probably haven't been dumped enough to know. We do a lot to mentally innoculate ourselves from feeling like the "bad guy" after a break-up. But, the dumped always feel an underlying hostility.

[Mind_your_head]

16. "feelings" for a friend?

Do you have the same "feelings" for your friend 'Bob' as you do for your friend 'Kathy'?

[LostInAnomie]

18. Apples and oranges.

The friendships I have with a man and a woman may have different dynamics, but they are still actual friendships. We do things together, we confide in each other, we discuss our relationships with our significant others, we call each other without it having some underlying reason or intent behind it, etc.

A "friendship" with someone I used to have a relationship with would have none of those things. In fact, it would water the meaning of "friend" down so much that it would be meaningless.

In the end though, this whole discussion is meaningless. What do you actually see the relationship between you and this person being after the break up? Describe what you really mean by "friendship". Ideally, do you think your relationship with this person would be a genuine friendship? Or, do you think it would just be an awkward acquaintance where they are weird around you and there is an underlying tension because of unresolved feelings? I know how I would feel, and I know how almost every other guy I know would feel, but maybe you think you're relationship is different.

[seabeyond]

25. i had guy friends all thru single. didnt hang out with women. when dating, just say done

you are right. none of those men were going to be friends. i had men friends and knew the difference. there is something not comfortable with the friend thing. jsut let them go.

agreed

[Chemical Bill]

27. I wouldn't want to date someone who I wouldn't have as a friend.

I think friendship is a necessary part of a relationship. I'm friends with my ex-wife, many ex-girlfriends, even ex-crushes and unrequited loves. I hang out with them, do things together, confide in them, and I get angry at them too, but that's all part of a friendship.

Bill

[WileEcoyote]

31. Correct me if I'm wrong,

but it seems to me that your concern is not for this poor guy but for how the situation would make YOU feel uncomfortable. Selfishness in other words.

These men are not like sofas or other expendable goods. Even though the dating habits of women tend to think of them that way. Money being the main concern.

The reason for failed marriages. Wrong, unethical values.

[MiddleFingerMom]

4. "Let's just be FWBJ." has never left me feeling crushed. ... n/t

[Mind_your_head]

7. FWBJ? What does that mean? n/t

[MiddleFingerMom]

8. It COULD mean "Feeble Witless Banal Joke". Or not. ...n/t

[flvegan]

9. I'm a guy. Easy: be honest, up front and candid.

I guess I'm just not enough of a "guy" these days, at least from what I take from feedback around here. But here's my take...

He's an adult, right? Allegedly a "man" of some sort, right?

So, if you're reading him right, a proper "look, I like you a lot but only as a highly valued friend" is a brilliant statement. If he handles it poorly, then that's not your problem. Coddling only goes so far, doesn't work, and taxes the both of you. Why bother? Especially if he's had such a loss in the last year, the last thing you want is to have him think something is there that isn't.

On a personal note, I have a LOT of female friends. Many, many of them have told me that they're in relationships and have no interest in me now, and I like that. Boundaries are a good thing. Doesn't keep me from wondering what they look like naked though, but I respect it a great deal. I like the openness and respect to tell me the truth.

[TrogL]

10. sooner rather than later

[Mind_your_head]

12. Yes....b/c a bee will move from flower to flower to flower....

Remember THIS one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PlnzCl5x-8

[petronius]

15. I can't suggest any words that won't hurt, but I will tell you that any attempt to ease the pain

will only end up raising hopes and prolonging the pain. We guys can be a bit obtuse - blunter is better...

To illustrate, here are two scenarios:

#1 (wrong)

Girl: "It's not going to work. You're a nice guy, but I'm not into you. In other circumstances it could be different, but now? No."
Guy: " She loves me!"

#2 (right)

Girl: "Fuck off. Seriously, Fuck off. If I see you again, I will kill you."
Guy: "OK. Oh, hey - your friend Kelly? what's her number?"

[Mind_your_head]

17. LOL

Your "scenario #1 is a 'killa'....please don't tell me that the 'guy' response is anywhere near true.

Scenario #2....unfortunately, I could/can believe that!

edit: grammar

[darkstar3]

19. It sounds like you haven't actually discussed this with him yet.

You're reading the subtext of your conversations and his body language, but you haven't actually discussed the possibility of an actual future with him yet. I know a lot of people here are talking about up front brutal honesty, but frankly, I don't think that's the way to go. You're in a delicate situation here.

You see, since you haven't bluntly discussed your future together, I would say that the "I don't want to date you, I just want to be your friend" conversation might be seen by him as presumptuous. To him, it could seem like you have simply rejected the possibility of "the two of you" out of hand. IF he takes it that way, he'll be hurt, and the chances of you continuing to be friends will be small.

I suggest a different sort of honesty. Rather than just laying it all out for him point blank, simply continue your friendship as is, because that's all it is. If he makes romantic advances, shut him down gently, maybe with a little humor to diffuse the situation. Make it clear through your actions and even sometimes your words that you value his friendship, but that you're not looking for more. He'll get the point PFQ. We're not all completely stone-headed. When he gets the point, one of three things will happen:

1. He'll want to "talk about our future together" at which point you can lay the cards on the table.
2. He'll move on. It will suck for you because you'll lose a friend, but if he really wants to have a romantic relationship with you and realizes he can't, he may find your presence painful.
3. He'll find someone else to focus his romantic energy and advances on, and you two will remain friends, though I suspect with somewhat less interaction.

Of course, this is only if he actually DOES try and get a more romantic thing going with you. You never know, he could be looking for a friend-with-benefits type relationship, or you MIGHT be reading him wrong.

(A word of warning: #3 could be dangerous. I know two different guys who are "in the friend zone" with girls they're really interested in, and they NEVER give up. He MAY harbor a continuous hope that you'll change your mind for years or even decades. That's his choice, and what you'll need to understand is that if the time ever comes where he confesses that everlasting crush, you'll have lost a friend, and THAT will have been his choice too.)

Then again, people do say that I am weird, so maybe you should take my advice with a grain of salt. :hi: Good luck.

[WileEcoyote]

20. Don't call, don't return phone calls

And don't bother explaining anything. Just move on.

He'll be pissed either way. Maybe really pissed. But this is the best route.

I know it isn't popular (here) to say this but the usual reason women dump men is because these men do not make enough money.

[PassingFair]

21. Cry.

If it really hurts you to break it off with this
guy, cry.

I dated a lot in my younger days, and didn't get
married until I was 29, so I had to tell a lot
of guys that I had realized it wasn't going to
"work out". I got "let down" my fair share, too.

The times when I cried were had the best outcomes.
I would feel so bad about having to tell them that
I wanted to stop seeing them that THEY would feel
sorry for ME.

It helps that I was honest, and I NEVER told any
of them that we should "just be friends", although
I ended up being friends with several of them.

It is sometimes worse to be the "dumper" than it is to be the "dumpee".

[seabeyond]

26. yuk. grinnin. nt

[Chan790]

22. Just one guy's perspective...

Say and I quote (nothing more or less until he responds) "I'm just not that in to you." when he brings up the future. Beyond that, be honest but not hurtful if he wants to know why...it might hurt him a little but you need to be clear about how you feel and a clean end is better than the gloopy drawn-out end that occurs when people just can't say "I'm just not that into you." and be firm about it.

Do not be the one to offer "We can be friends.", if that is something that interests him in the least he'll bring it up or say it. It's just a bad cliched thing that never should be uttered by the break-upper. It leaves false hope that you're wishy-washy about not being into him and it's sadistic...what it really says is "I like you and want all the benefits of your companionship but none of the deep emotional involvement." which is fine when it's mutual but in this case you know absolutely that it is not...he wants you, you don't want him...you're probably not going to end up friends because of that difference.

[hippywife]

32. Please don't use the exact words

"I'm just not that into you." as noted in the post above. I've heard fewer things as rude as that phrase. Unless you really want to hurt the guy.

Being direct and being rude and hurtful are two different things.

[Chan790]

33. Eh...

having been on the wrong end of this one; the phrase sucks but it beats virtually all other options.

The ones I think are more direct and thus better, you'd likely find ruder...it's not a pleasant conversation to have with someone. There is really no good way to directly tell someone firmly that you're not interested in them and won't ever be that isn't a bit rude or painful to the recipient. It's the fact that women want to sugarcoat this or find ways to say it and be nice about it that it's as hard as it is. You can't be nice about it, it's going to hurt...the best choices are like removing band-aids: they hurt a lot at first but it's over quickly and you move on.

The best wording is the one that makes the recipient think "F*ck You!" (because they have a right to that anger) and leaves no question about your motivations or thinking on the subject.

[hippywife]

35. I think the guy is going to end up feeling bad enough

without having to incite him to anger, too. There's not reason to go out of one's way to make a person truly feel like shit in the process of a very difficult situation.

[burrfoot]

23. +1 on skipping the "let's be friends" part.

Just tell the guy that you've enjoyed what you guys had but you don't see it going any further. In my opinion, any kind of window dressing beyond that just leaves room for confusion (in his head "she's not ready but she does like me, maybe there's still a chance) or will make him feel like like a fool. Even if you're genuine in your desire for friendship, he's going to hear it as a meaningless platitude.

Someone upthread hit this right on the head- leave him the freedom to mad at you, crushed, frustrated, angry, indifferent; however he takes it, he'll get over it.

If there's a real friendship to be had, it's probably not going to be able to happen until quite some time has passed. Let that happen.

Just my .02

[begin_within]

24. Men like to dispense with the BS and just get to the fact of the matter

"You know, I think you're falling in love with me, but I'm not falling in love with you. If you want to remain friends, I definitely will. But I don't know if that will be enough for you. What are your thoughts?"

No matter how you word it or approach it, it will hurt him because he has developed feelings for you. I think men prefer to be told the plain, unvarnished truth, simply and directly. That way they will decide not to waste any more time on something that will never happen for them.

He may decide not to see you at all any more, forever. For some men it's too difficult to remain friends with someone they were in love with, because those feelings could easily come back and he would just get hurt again and again, because you don't feel the same way about him that he feels about you.

I think the chances are greater than 50/50 that he will stop seeing you altogether after this, so that he can have more time to dedicate to a new relationship with someone else, that will be what he wants. There is a chance he may still be friends with you but I wouldn't expect it to be a major or significant friendship.

I think men like to know early and clearly whether there is a chance for anything to develop, not only so they don't waste time but so they don't allow themselves to develop feelings for someone who doesn't feel that way towards them. I think men appreciate the honesty and directness and it's better to just give it to him straight rather than trying to "dress it up" or soften the blow somehow.

There may be a bad reaction at first, but that's only a temporary reaction to the pain or disappointment he will undoubtedly feel and that will go away quickly, so you should just discount that as a one-time reaction, and wait a while to see what the long-term effect is.

[Chemical Bill]

28. One question:

Is his getting ahead of the friendship and thinking "couple/married" the whole problem, or is it that you don't really want to be friends with him?

In other words, do you really want to say: "Slow down!", or do you want to say "Goodbye"?

Bill

[NV Whino]

29. If there is something you really enjoy doing with the guy...

bring that up. Then say something like: I really enjoy _________ with you, but I don't see our relationship going beyond that shared interest. How do you feel about that? Can you limit our relationship to that shared interest?

If you don't have a shared interest, tell him and tell him you feel both of you should move on.

(Honestly, I've had a guy in love with me for forty years and he's never gotten the hint. Yes, we have lots of shared interests, and fortunately we live at opposite ends of the state these days.)

[MilesColtrane]

30. Some phrases are easier to take than others.

I'd rather hear, "The chemistry's just not there." rather than, "You're such a good friend, I don't want that to change." or, "I love you....like a brother.".

And for God's sake, don't use, "It's not you, it's me."

[Chan790]

34. +1 for "The chemistry's just not there."

It's direct and to the point. No waffling, sugar-coating or question what is being said. No lame platitudes.