Today I met a man whose life has been ruined by our healthcare systerm.

[crim son]

We spoke at lunch. He's 59 and is starting from scratch. Why? Because his wife developed and in time died of cancer, last year. Though he had a home, vehicles, vacation property and everything in terms of material comfort, had worked full time for forty years, the last eleven as a v. successful, self- employed businessman, what health insurance he and his wife had between them didn't cover the "hundreds of thousands" he ended up with in expenses, yet he "didn't qualify" for any government assistance. He lost his home and his car as payment. With everything lost, he left his home state and moved to my town (Gawd blass him). I am PISSED. This is a sweet, sweet man who had done everything right as far as he knew. Our discussion led from healthcare to politics in general and he's one of us, essentially.

I'm so mad for him, so sad, but I sure admire his attitude.

Can somebody please pour me a virtual mug o' wine? I could really use it. :cry:

[pitohui]

1. sure here's a hug and a mug

i don't know what to tell you, health insurance for self employed people is worthless to a large degree

you need to work for a big company (or have a spouse who does) because otherwise you get endless run-around and bullshit when you have a serious health issue IME

he should have declared bankruptcy before losing "everything" so that they wouldn't able to take his primary home and his car but sometimes people have a misguided idea that they want to pay their debts, even though paying those debts makes no real difference to the big corporate hospital compared to the harm it does by destroying the ability of a 59 year old man to support himself in his old age

i would tell anyone if they had it to do over -- NEVER take out a home equity loan in that situation, just run up the credit cards and unsecured credit, so you can keep your house -- for instance a friend of mine had a very serious accident then got cancer but was able to keep his house through the bankruptcy because he put the run-amok co-pays and other ridiculous charges on a charge card -- he did NOT take out a loan against his house


couples have to protect themselves so that the person who dies second doesn't end up beggared and homeless by the first person's illness, it is admirably for a 59 yr old to say he is starting over but in reality it is unlikely that it will happen, you don't have another whole lifetime ahead of you to get back the $$$

[crim son]

2. Thanks, pitohui.

I think the guy realizes he isn't going to get it all back and is still in shock over the whole thing, else he wouldn't have moved to this town of all places, where there is little work, relatively few businesses and life is physically rough for most older people. I can't imagine he'll stick around but who knows. Interesting point about avoiding the home equity loan; I'm sure that's what he did.

[UndertheOcean]

3. well , what is the use of all his comforts without his spouse

he can possibly replace that stuff ...very hard , but possible . But he can never get his wife back.

:(

[crim son]

5. True, and he wasn't bemoaning the loss of his "stuff."

But I think the loss of his wife was enough misery w/out the loss of everything else on top of it.

[pitohui]

8. i wouldn't put having a home, car, job, and medical care as "comforts"

i'm older than my husband, so i've thought about this A LOT and i don't want my legacy to be that my husband has no home, no car, and no ability to pay his OWN medical bills in old age/retirement because i had an illness

you can spend everything you have, it doesn't guarantee that your spouse will live or even have quality of life for many of the later months of the treatment

if nothing else, if i'm dying, i don't want to have to be worried that my husband will have no house, no care, no job, no way to take care of himself so it's important to find a way for him to protect some of the assets

throwing everything you have at a medical care that isn't guaranteed to work, and in some cases, you KNOW the person is terminal, out of misguided sentiment because "the wife can't be replaced" is not a kind thing to do -- the dying person doesn't need that guilt, that survivor doesn't need the resentment that will over shadow all the good times

[stray cat]

4. The current health bill would limit cap the bills - for those who say its worthless

[applegrove]

6. Vibes to that man.

[old mark]

7. The Republicans love to act concerned for small businesspeople-

but if you own your own business, you are really fucked if you get sick. Insurance for individuals - not in group plans- will run around $10,000 a year for one person (Blue Cross) IF you don't have a "pre existing condition, which is whatever they say it is.
I konow a guy who owned a small shop. He had diabetes, therefor NO insurance company would take him, therefor he is untreated for his entire adult life. He takes cinnamon, etc, which does little good for him.
He recently closed the business, went on welfare, lives with his dad who is also sick.

Great work, GOP - you really look out for business owners.

mark

[pitohui]

9. not only is the price high they make some excuse not to pay if you do get sick

in another thread i already described how my friend, thin, healthy, non smoker, bought a catastrophic plan and as soon as his doctor ordered one test for cancer, the insurance was cxl'd and he hasn't been able to replace it, even tho the tests came back OK

he's only 50, how is he supposed to get to 65 without ever again getting any medical care, yet he can't take the chance of going to a doctor/hospital because un-insured patients are billed many times the price of what insured patients pay here, because they don't have a contract like the insurance co. gets to keep down the cost

and since he's self employed he'll never again be able to buy any health insurance

it's a fucking scam to make sure if you work for yourself it all goes in the end to somebody else!

i would NEVER tell anyone to own their own business, except as a part time hobby, if there is ANY way to get a job, take the job, any job with health benefits is better in the long run than owning your own business, even if short term the business seems to pay more -- my friend now has nothing, similar to the guy crim son describes, yet he was self employed so long he can't get a j-o-b

[old mark]

11. That's another part of the trap - I had a part time business for several years,

and never mentioned it on any of my "real job" resumes - it's the kiss of death to employers - they hate to hire someone who might someday be doing better on their own. If you succeed at it, you have to do better than just survive - you have to try to make as much as possible to pay for all the stuff like health insurance, and all the other shit that a real business needs.

I did photography on the side for about 7 years, and lost money every year, hoping someday to make it support itself. Then I met a "success", a guy who had a fine studio, great reputation, etc, who was still working a "real" job just to get by - after 12 years!

I gave it all up, sold all my equipment to pay rent.

"The American dream" of having your own business can be a terrible way to live.

mark

[Aristus]

10. Here, crim son:

:hug:

I hope things get better for your friend. And for all of us. It's long past time we had substantive health care reform in this country. Tell him we're thinking of him and wishing him the best...

[kixat2550]

12. so much for our great health care system