You know, I used to really like this place.

[Robb]

Not the Lounge, I still like the Lounge. It hasn't changed in style or substance, really. :)

But the rest of it? I don't recognize DU any more. :(

[hippywife]

1. Other than here and some of the

special interest forums, the rest of DU doesn't really even exist for me anymore. It used to be just the opposite. Now it's so full of so many people trying to make themselves look intellectually superior to everyone else. There is so little real conversation. It's almost as bad as the divide between the left and right in this country as a whole that prevents any substantial discussion of the issues facing us all.

:hi:

[BolivarianHero]

2. The problem nationally is more serious...

Birther stupidity and fundamentalism make it impossible for the right to engage the issues that face Americans in any meaningful and logically coherent fashion.

[hippywife]

6. Really, I think that kind of rabid stupidity

is relegated to the minority on the right. There is still some heavily entrenched bigotry, though, that has always been there and is just starting to show its depth and breadth with Obama's election. I just can't get over why this is an issue in this country. That's the stupidity I had honestly thought was left behind a long time ago except in some small, seedy, dark, dank little corners. :eyes:

[Robb]

21. I wish it was only on the right.

Whether it's bigotry or some other form of entrenched opinion, it seems there's no room for discussion.

Even people I'd otherwise agree with are appalling to read. They sound like idiots, because they act as if everyone else is. And there's no convincing them people who might disagree aren't subhuman.

It's as if we've taken the right's toolbox and started using it ourselves. We won, but if we shout down everyone who disagrees and act supercilious, how do we "win the peace"?

I fear and despise ALL zealotry, I guess. DU is a bummer of a place right now because there's a lot of it.

[abq e streeter]

29. after 8 years of a darkness many of us never dreamed could descend upon America

to me it's understandable that passions would run high both pro and con re: the Obama presidency and the great amount of hope the fact of his election represents. Therefore it's inevitable that disappointment would be profound among those who perceive the same old/same old instead of change, and that passions would run equally high among those who are upset and angry at what they perceive as division among ourselves undermining backing our Democratic president as he tries to undo the almost incalculable damage the previous administration /junta did. I happen to be among those who are more disappointed than not, but try to admit the possibility that I'm wrong and have in fact, more than once conceded points to those that have intelligently and respectfully pointed out how and where they thought I was wrong. I still believe there are more intelligent arguments on both sides of backing and criticizing Obama than not. And again, that's just simply my perception and maybe I'm being too pollyanna-ish and not seeing the deterioration in the level of civility that others are seeing.

[Robb]

30. It's not even the civility as much as what you're describing.

Hell, there's no one on the board who's wrong more often than me. :) And that's what I've always treasured about this place, there are some unbelievably sharp minds here, some incredible knowledge and experience sets, and I get to talk to them. Invaluable. Nothing else like it anywhere.

But those people are getting drowned out by folks who clearly don't know anything, but who are loud, repetitive, unmoving. And tolerated.

This isn't a swipe at the mods by any means, because I don't think I'd moderate any differently if I were doing it today. The rules have always sustained us well here, and following them carefully has always worked. I just think we're missing a piece of the puzzle, somehow, of how to make this place work as well in a post-Bush, post-"underground" era.

[hippywife]

36. Some of it I think is that

we all come at this thing with an emphasis on different positions.

Others see the war in Afghanistan as an appropriate and necessary response to the attacks on 9/11, where I don't. I don't believe that killing anyone, let alone all of the innocent people caught in the crossfire, is an answer to anything and only creates more enemies. My focus is that we should be making peace with the rest of the world by admitting how overbearing and destructive to the world our lifestyles are and making up for subjecting many areas of the world to abject poverty while holding to sustain the wants of our over material society. I believe this is the root of the hatred for us in the Middle East and other places where our "interests" lie.

People think that illegal immigrants are enemies out to replace us in our neighborhoods and workplaces. I believe their plight is a symptom of NAFTA and the global economy. Allow them to make a proper living at home, instead of slaves to cheap wages and subsidized agricultural exports, then there would be no issue.

Pick any issue, and there will diametrically opposed positions and ideas as to what the solutions to these issues.

I believe the other problem is that there are many more people here these days that refuse to be civil in discussing these approaches, as abq pointed out.

It's okay to feel passionate about these things, but not to pummel each other with our ideologies and treat each other like we're enemies.

[GirlinContempt]

62. "how to make this place work as well in a post-Bush, post-"underground" era."

That, I think, is the #1 problem here. DU went from being an opposition site for many years to, suddenly, just not. I think a lot of people don't know how to handle it. I left DU for a while due to my health, and that time was when the big change happened. I have noticed a HUGE difference since I've been back.

[tigereye]

42. discussion means hearing people out and thinking about what they say

and trying to keep an open mind, rather than making snarky remarks of hitting folks over the head with logic...


I agree that that sometimes it doesn't seem like that occurs...

[surrealAmerican]

56. Too many people are losing the art of discussion ...

... especially on the internet. The idea that you will never have to "face" the people you're talking to, is enough to bring out the worst in many people.

[Heidi]

3. !

:hug:

:hug:

(Good morning!)

[hippywife]

4. Heidi-honey!

[tekisui]

5. I agree.

So much personal tit-for-tat and entrenched ideology. I think it was the election of a Democratic President that changed things here. Nuance and understanding has been lost to 'right and wrong' mindsets. There is another piece of the problem as I see it, but I'd rather not say.

[hippywife]

7. No common enemy so

no excuse for some folks to turn on each other anymore. I just got sick of the snark and refusal to talk to each other like sensible adults.

I can only imagine what the other problem is. I really think I know.

:hi: tekisui!

[tekisui]

8. It really has become a game of out-snark.

Very little in constructive debate or discussion. Many still try, but geez, it gets tiresome.

:hi: to you hippywife! You probably do know what I am alluding to.;-)

[hippywife]

9. It does get tiresome and I have very little

energy to spare on that kind of interaction. Trust me, living in a county that is supposedly majority Dem and didn't carry Obama at all, let alone not a single other county in the state? I think I do know to what you refer.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i hate that most of du has transformed into whom we used to hate a year or two ago

ex: the debates around krugman really highlighted this for me

[abq e streeter]

11. respectfully ( and only partially) disagreeing

I still recognize it as a place where I get access to important information and perspectives that are nowhere to be found in any type of MSM. Many people who reply are perhaps rude or at least overly opinionated, but I still find that most are not that way. I'm one of the over-opinionated ones sometimes, but generally find that if I for instance, am criticizing Obama, and what I perceive to be the continued spinelessness of most of our party's "leadership" ,I usually try to include the caveat that I sincerely hope I'm wrong, and further, acknowledge that possibility. When I do that, more often than not, I'm replied to with intelligence and civility. ( and yes, sometimes I'm not treatd that way, and so I do have a very few people on ignore).

[hippywife]

14. I would love to see him with a different mindset

on some issues, but truthfully, he's having enough trouble getting what he is attempting past the right wing mentality of "I got mine so I don't care about anyone else and will do whatever I can to make sure they don't get it, even lie." If he were to propose the changes that really need to be made and now, there'd be no stopping the violence the willfully ignorant would stir up.

:hi:

[abq e streeter]

19. yes , I've considered that re: making "sweeping changes"

I ponder the reasons for the decades long spinelessness and consider it a real possibility that it's no more complicated than actual , real threats (" shame about all them small plane crashes and sooie-cides ain't it" ).And I think the right ( the "tea-baggers", Fox-watchers etc) has been irrationally stirred up enough that the real, deep structural change this rotting system is in need of( not just health care system but the WHOLE SYSTEM) wouldn't rile them up any more or less than they are now. But I agree in that the forces that stand to lose massive amounts of power and money if real change happened would become extremely dangerous if their power and profits were genuinely threatened. But other than that unfortunately real possibility, there's just no excuse for not acting like the repubs have, and just saying this is our agenda, and if you ( the minority) don't like it, tough shit...But mainly I was responding to the OP that I usually (not always) receive reasoned responses to my opinions if I put them out in a civil and hopefully thoughtful way. I know I've seen, in recent months, many new people here; I think that's a great thing (outside of the few obvious disruptors). I say, welcome to them all, and "tell your friends". I also, rather ashamedly admit, that I've censored myself on any number of occasions when I knew my opinions would be angrily denounced by some for not being "party-line/ leftist conventional wisdom ". As I said in my user profile, I think the left is on the right side of any given issue about 95 % of the time ( meaning that I occasionally disagree with what passes for liberal "conventional wisdom"). But this happened almost from the day I started posting, and I learned that in the interest of my blood pressure, I'd keep certain opinions or perspectives on various specific issues , to myself. So in that way, DU is also pretty similar to how I first experienced it. And of course it's going to be different; there's a whole new political reality to deal with, as far as having a Democratic congress and President. Fault lines opening up were inevitable; there would be those defending Obama and his administration and those who still find much to criticize. Outside of the relatively few knee-jerk defenders of him and the even fewer "he's as bad as Bush" crowd, I've seen mostly intelligently argued positions pro and con,and I welcome the debate and occasionally have modified my own positions based on someone intelligently disagreeing with me and pointing out what they perceive as flaws in my position. And back atcha out there in the "level-lands".....:hi:

[tmyers09]

12. I am rather new here...

So I have no idea what the last few posts are alluding/referring to. However, I do know that the only way to solve problems is by talking them out. If it's something that can't be talked about, shoot me a personal message.

[abq e streeter]

24. welcome tmyers09....agree 100% re:"solving problems by talking them out"

I think the problem some of the people responding here is that there are allegedly ,and in their experience, more cases of just tlking past each other ( or insults, belittling an opposing opinion etc) that there used to be. My experience is different; I find the same small percentage that has always acted that way, but for the most part find DU to be an interesting, informative place , and just ignore the handful of people that are rude or egomaniacs or whatever. Welcome again:toast:

[bigwillq]

55. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

13. My Jessica Alba-to-Politics Post Ratio has shifted dramatically

Life can be that way.

:rofl:

[Rob H.]

15. There's bleed-over into the Lounge, too, though

I made a comment a while back about a movie whose ending I thought sucked and posted, "There's two hours of my life I'll never get back." Pretty standard comment, right?

Someone actually responded, "I don't know what movie you think you saw, but that movie was only an hour and 42 minutes long." Thanks for the heads-up, Mr. Pedantic Douche. :eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. ...

:rofl:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. somehow I think you are due the other 18 minutes for that comment alone.

:rofl:

[hippywife]

18. Amazing when folks get their hackles up

over a movie they had nothing to do with but take exception to your opinion as if they were the star or director. :rofl:

[abq e streeter]

20. maybe they saw the version that had 18 minutes mysteriously erased

( Nixon reference, to my younger DU friends)

[Ptah]

22. It was eighteen and a half minutes.

revisionist



O8)

[abq e streeter]

26. actually the true story was revealed in the movie "Dick"

a pretty funny movie if you've never seen it, and the cutesy lightweight fluff aspect of it surprisingly gave way to a pretty angry portrayal of what liars and racists Nixon and his boys were. I forget his name, but the guy who played Nick Tortelli on Cheers does a great Nixon in it.

[Ptah]

28. I had to look him up. He sure had the five-o'clock shadow and greasy hair for the part.

Dan Hedaya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hedaya

I just added Dick to my netflix list. Thanks.

[tmyers09]

31. Ah...

The dad from Night at The Roxbury, I knew I recognized him. I love that movie.

"But the guest house doesn't have cable!"

"Yes it does, it HAS CINEMAX!"

"BUT THERE'S NO HBO! GOD!"

[abq e streeter]

32. Ha--that's 2 hours of your life you'll never get back

on the advice of my attorney, I hereby categorically deny that I've claimed that it's exactly 2 hours. In addition I categorically ( or was that paregorically) deny that I have any foreknowledge as to whether or not you will, in fact, ever retrieve those 2 hours, which in fact, may or may not in actuality , BE 2 hours. My attorney has furthermore just advised me to STFU and get off of DU for a few hours and go enjoy the New Mexico sunshine.

[Call Me Wesley]

23. What?

You sit through all the end credits, too? ;)

[vadawg]

37. rofl, he didnt know about the 18 mins you slept at the end of it..

[graywarrior]

25. Sad, ain't it.

[Robb]

27. I'm even using "ignore."

I mean (and I think I said this elsewhere) I used to use it before, but every month or so I'd clean it out, because everyone I had on ignore had been tombstoned while I'd been ignoring them.

Not so much anymore. :(

[graywarrior]

34. I can get the flavor of the thread pretty quick, so I don't even read them any longer

You can post a seemingly benign statement and end up either disappointing someone who thought they knew you better or get called some name. I love being referred to at the OP when I start a thread. So warm and fuzzy.

[Zomby Woof]

33. Some DUers are experts on EVERYTHING

And have just the correct amount of overbearing arrogance and projection to back it up. Who needs reading comprehension or pesky facts? Just be an Arrogant Bully Troll, And You Will Succeed At "Pissing Off The Ignorant And Narrow-Minded."



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Robb]

41. I know, right?

...Has it always been this way? Am I turning into one of those "DU used to be blah blah blah" farts? :D

[Capn Sunshine]

47. well, yes.....

but it doesn't make it any less true

[Taverner]

35. Some folks in GD are not working for our side, if you know what I mean

And it almost seems like they are targeting certain DUers with a lot of posts, getting them into a corner, and setting up a situation so that the long time DUer is TS'd.

Divide and conquer...

[cwydro]

38. I agree.

The personal attacks are astonishing. Some rather innocuous subject will be up for discussion and the knives come out.

I know, because I have the scars to prove it, lol.

[Shine]

39. I'm never here anymore.

Too busy...and when I do pop in, it's just to check on the lounge.

:hi:

[hippywife]

40. And you are greatly missed, m'dear.

[trof]

43. Teh dingbattedness left.

or something
:shrug:

[Danger Mouse]

44. Rather than focusing on taking on the Republicans...we're taking on each other.

We've lost our direction, collectively. This isn't the fault of the leftists or the centrists on DU...it's just that we don't have the same common ground that we used to have. :shrug:

[rug]

45. It's about the same.

Although the cracks from the primaries are more pronounced.

[KG]

46. actually, it's working out kinda like i expected after the dems got the WH and the Hill

the fawning loyalists vs. those who want real change.

it's been a hoot to watch it play out. :rofl:

[Sky Masterson]

48. I miss the sex threads

:hide:

[trof]

49. That's "Ess-EE-Ex", puhleeze!

Remember the children.
;-)

[Sky Masterson]

50. But I hate the children!!

Damn things are needy. :sarcasm: :hide: :yoiks:

[trof]

51. Well, the hell with 'em then.

[Robb]

53. I know. If it's not food, it's water with those guys. nt

[Call Me Wesley]

57. Oh fer sure!

How big forearms do you want? :hide:

Just kidding, of course! :hi:

[Sky Masterson]

58. My left forearm is a bit smaller than the right one.

I'm just trying to even things out ;). :rofl: :dunce:

[Redstone]

52. You know why? I clicked on your message, and some schmuck site tried to set

a cookie on my computer.

That's why.

Redstone

[bigwillq]

54. DU got taken over by the Obamabots!

:hide: DO NOT DARE CRITICIZE THE Oh HOLY O. :rofl: if you do, you are a freeper and no longer a Democrat or a Liberal. :rofl:

We all must agree. No longer a need for discussion or debate on a DISCUSSION BOARD! :rofl:

[JohnnyLib2]

60. Gasp!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. puma

:P

[Skittles]

59. it was OK until the cheerleaders became a force

:thumbsdown:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

61. I'm getting sick of some of the anti-Obama posts.

Not the "I disagree with Obama on Issue X/Y/Z" posts, but the weapons-grade stupid "He's just like Bush!" tantrums.

[valerief]

63. It's all the zombies. They're so damn messy and inarticulate.

[Forkboy]

65. It's an intellectual moshpit.

So I like it.

Just keep the elbows down. :)

[Sky Masterson]

68. Mosh!! Woot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nYejkFKb9A
Anthrax - Caught In A Mosh
I do miss seeing whatshername here though.:hi:

[Forkboy]

69. That's my favorite song by them!

:)

I just realized a few minutes ago that whatshername tried calling earlier and I wasn't here. x(

[Sky Masterson]

70. It was mine too.

Among the living was a killer record and as you can see below I kinda liked them a bit. :D

I have had a hard time catching whatshername myself.Damn her for having a life!! :P

[Forkboy]

71. That pic leaves me speechless.

:rofl:

And what was it with us metalheads cutting our damn sleeves off? I would buy a new shirt and immediately remove them. My air guitar skills could not be encumbered! :)

[Sky Masterson]

72. Isn't it hillarious!

It kills me too.:headbang: :rofl:
And hell yes on the no sleeves!
It took me years to get re-acclimated to them.:P

[valerief]

66. You know, I really used to like Brussel Sprouts. Now, not so much.

:shrug:

[dembotoz]

67. maybe it the levels of stress

money pressure, and just the prolonged drag of things shortens many a fuse.

although i KNEW it would take a long time for things to get better after bush, isn't there
sorta a feeling of disappointment that we are not back to full employment, still a long way to go on health care, and elvis and hendrix have not come back from the dead yet.