It seems like just yesterday that we were all gearing up for baseball season.

[BeachBaby]

Now, we're all getting ready for post-season - and my Phillies, as predicted, are all set up for some playoff action. :woohoo:

How is your team doing?

[LynneSin]

1. Well at least one Philly team is doing well

I still have hope for my Eagles, perhaps they just needed to get that one loss out of the way for the season.

[Patiod]

15. Still getting used to people considering the Philies a "good" team

Too many 1-season flukes, or chokes.

But 3 seasons of having a good team -- doesn't really seem like we're talking about the Phils...

[BeachBaby]

23. I'm boycotting Eagles games this year.

I can't stomach who's on the team. :puke:

[old mark]

27. I am assuming it's Mr. Vick......

One of the Philly papers ran the headling "Lock Up Your Dogs" when he was signed.

You are certainly not alone.

mark

[BeachBaby]

37. That would be the one.

And I saw that headline. It was on the front page of the Philly Daily News.

[LynneSin]

29. You know, if I was a vegan I would probably do the same exact thing

But try as I might when it comes to eating a better quality of food - everyday I make choices to eat animal products that went thru the same type of suffering if not worse.

I use to think like you until I read this great article from Alec Baldwin and made me realize we all are responsible in some ways for the abuse an inhumane treatment of animals. Just because the animals I affect end up on my dinner table, does that make me any better of a person?

Vick has done his time and has a wonderful opportunity to make a difference when it comes to animals rights. I'd like to think he deserves a 2nd chance.

[TZ]

30. What has being a vegan have to do with this Lynne?

Thats kind of insulting to say those of us who aren't vegans don't have the right to despise people who are deliberately cruel to animals. Does this mean because I enjoy chicken I'm not allowed to be outraged by cock fighting? Aye carumba..:eyes:

[LynneSin]

31. Because Vegans are the one people that are not doing any abuses whatsoever to animals

Look, I enjoy bacon and burgers just as much as the next person. And I have tried in the past years to buy animal products that are suppose to be 'cruelty-free'. But I'm not perfect and I've read the articles. A few years ago Rolling Stone magazine did an amazing & eye-opening article about Smithfield Pork products and how their pigs were raised. Smithfield takes what Michael Vick did and multiplied it by thousands. Maybe I've never actually torture a pig but I've had Smithfield products in the past (ok not recently - not after seeing the disgusting photos in that article).

Vick has served his sentence and as far as I know is no longer doing anything abusive to animals. If anything I've read where he wants to help correct what he has done and talk against animal abuse.

People do deserve a 2nd chance (but very very rarely do I give thirds). ANd folks talk about the money he's making - well that's all going towards bankerupcy court and paying off legal fees, so the guy is hardly getting rich off of this stint.

[TZ]

32. Thats some twisted logic there.

Animal abuse..directly like dog fighting is a sign of sociopathy and even psychopathy sometimes. I guess I have no right to despise serial killers either because I eat meat and participate in medical research.
As for Rolling Stone...lol. They published an scientifically horrid article about how vaccines cause autism which has been debunked so many times its not even funny so I would not be getting my morals from a magazine that routinely publishes falsehoods.

[LynneSin]

34. whatever

Point is the guy has served his time and hardly enough reason for me to give up a team I have supported for years. I'd like to think that when someone serves his time and completes his sentence that he/she has the ability to have a second chance - and that's for everyone.

As for Rolling Stone they also did a major push to get Obama elected, having him on the cover a record-tying 4 times in one year (tied with John Lennon) and reaching out to a crowd of young voters. They also gave a cover article to Robert Kennedy Jr. who wrote about the corruption of the voting process in the 2004 elections in Ohio. They also have an owner that refuses to put prog rock bands into the Hall of Fame.

I haven't quit eating meat because of the Smithfield article, just use common sense when I judge others. You know that whole "Those without sin let them cast the first stone" mentality.

[BeachBaby]

36. It's his name that gave him that second chance.

And while I agree that humans are largely responsible for many of the heinous things that affect innocent animals, I could argue that while people consume meat on a daily basis, they are largely ignorant of the abuse heaped upon these animals before their inevitable death.

Vick financed, witnessed, allowed, and maybe even participated in, the rape, electrocution and torture of innocent dogs. He was FULLY aware of what these dogs were going through. And the reason why these atrocities happened? To line his wallet. Nothing more, nothing less.

I believe in giving people second chances, when the person in question expresses GENUINE remorse - and then proves it. He has not been required, nor has he shown, this very critical emotion. He wasn't given any time to do so. He walked out of prison, with the NFL chomping at the bit to get him back in the game.

This isn't about second chances, Lynne. This is all about money, ratings, and media frenzies. If you're going strictly by "everybody deserves a second chance" and "he did his time" reasoning, then every child molester and rapist should be given that same consideration. We shouldn't discriminate against them if they should apply for a job at a school, daycare center, or coaching position.

I'm sorry, but we have to agree to disagree on this one. The disappointment I have in the Eagles club right now is overflowing. For them to claim that their desire is to have a "character team", all while signing Vick and tossing Brian Dawkins, sickens me.

[LynneSin]

38. First, I keep the two separate - Dawkins and Vick. One had nothing to do with the other

Was I upset about Dawkin? Of course I was. But Free Agency has screwed over my teams for decades. After the hurt of losing Pete Rose to the Phillies how many moons ago, I just realize this is the nature of the game and players leave for reasons that make no sense nor do I have an understanding.

At this time Vick has been keeping out of the limelight and probably the smartest thing for him to do in light of everything. This is a person that I believe is making the league minimum (which is still more than most of us make) and hasn't taken a single play in regular season games.

But as for Vick doing nothing about the issue which brought him down - well perhaps you just refuse to actually find out for yourself

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2009/09/animal-activist-a-lot-of-good-has-come-from-michael-vicks-dogfighting-case/1
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/ashley_fox/20090909_Ashley_Fox___Enough_already__Give_Vick_a_second_chance.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/29/sports/football/29rhoden.html?em

Sometimes the best charity work isn't the ones that are boasted about the loudest. I think Vick realizes that keeping low key is one of the keys to returning back to the game and making a difference. But he is out there doing something.

[BeachBaby]

40. You're missing my point about Dawkins and Vick.

The Eagles Club has prided itself on choosing players with "character". They've stated that over and over again. To let Brian go - who was the ROCK of that team, the mentor, the prayer leader - and sign Vick....well, let's just say that Eagles fans far and wide figured that Lurie & Co. learned their lesson when they signed T.O. Obviously, that isn't the case. Any chance of them keeping a "character team" went out the window the day they signed Vick.

And, fwiw, I have a REALLY difficult time believing that if the Cowboys had signed Vick, you wouldn't have been tearing Dallas a new one.

To address your other point, I never said that Vick wasn't doing anything. I said that he hasn't proven himself yet. For the record, his volunteer work with animals isn't quite a voluntary action on his part - it was part of the deal in order for him to be accepted back in the NFL. Hardly something that is a result of the goodness of his heart.

Believe me, Lynne - I'm not exactly thrilled about walking away from my team. I have been an Eagles fan since I can remember. This is hard for me. It's breaking my heart - but even more heart-breaking is the fact that MY team thought it was more important to sign a killer, than to try to hold onto a man who gave his heart and soul to his team.

[LynneSin]

42. I would have ripped any other team because I'm an Eagles fan but that's what we do

If anything, because he's an Eagle, I've become more educated and learned more about Vick because he doing something about what he had done wrong.

If you're walking away from the team you probably weren't a fan to begin with and if that pisses you off then so be it. I've been following sports since I was a small tiny kid and I have this much to say - teams will break your heart, they will disappoint you, they will make choices that baffle your mind and they will piss you off beyond belief. The only thing that will happen is I could move to another team and they'll just do something else that will piss me off. Every team out there has players that probably have done worst than what Vick has done - his only 'fault' so to speak was getting caught. The NFL hall of fame, along with other hall of fames, are filled with Coke Heads, violent criminals and men who have done horrible things to women. I realized that when a cokehead like Lawrence Taylor can make the Hall of Fame then perhaps I need to look at this sport with a grain of salt. It's a Sunday afternoon pasttime that I enjoy watching and having fun with my friends arguing or agreeing. But in a year or two who knows what the Eagles will be doing and who is on their team, I see no reason why I should ditch them for one season.

Vick was going to play with someone and for the league minimum he is getting - he's a bargain basement steal for the team that grabs him. I felt bad with what happened to Dawkins but my assumption is we made and offer and he found something better elsewhere. Perhaps we could have offered more and perhaps he could have settled for less but with Salary Caps it takes a Ph D in accoutning to figure it all out. Neither has anything to do with each other. Ultimately sports comes down to the bottom line.

I've now been following the Eagles close to 25+ years and weathered some bad times along with some good. I see no reason why to quit following them over this. If it upset me that much then perhaps I should just quit watching organized sports altogether because something will always happen that will piss me off.

[BeachBaby]

43. Wow. Just.......wow.

"If you're walking away from the team you probably weren't a fan to begin with and if that pisses you off then so be it."

That kinda reminds me of a certain former President who said that any American who opposed the war, was with the terrorists. So, by that logic, ANYBODY who - before we went to war - supported America and was someone whom, for all intents and purposes, we would have considered to be "patriotic", wasn't ever really a patriotic American; because if he/she really was a patriotic American, he/she would just accept the decision to go to war, and continue pledging their allegiance and hanging their flag with good ole boy American pride.

Sorry, Lynne, but you couldn't be more wrong. If you could see my wardrobe, and how it is heavily fortified with Eagles gear; my Philadelphia Eagles doormat; the decal on my car; the Eagles flag waving on my car during football season; the hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars spent on tailgates and games - you would realize just how absolutely ludicrous your above statement is. And how very uncool.

[rug]

45. You're accusing LynneSin of being George Bush because she roots for the Eagles?

[BeachBaby]

48. No.

[madinmaryland]

49. Ok, I will then accuse LynneSin of being George Bush for rooting for the Eagles!!

:evilgrin:

[LynneSin]

46. Oh geez, talk about apples and oranges

I mean this is football, it's a sunday afternoon hobby and you'll dump one team because they did something to piss you off only to take up with another team that trust me, will do the SAME EXACT THING in their own good time. Where do we stop the bandwagoning.

But whatever. If you somehow feel all high & mighty then go for it. Either you're a fan or you're not. And I've stuck up for my favorite teams thru some amazing times and I've suffered thru some of the horrible. And I've dealt with beloved players being traded or let go thru free agency and I've seen some questionable people on my teams (and I'm talking all teams I follow, not football).

Perhaps you just need to walk away from the sport if it's upseting you that much. Probably why that comparsion is such Apples & Oranges. Along time ago I learned that no matter how much of my heart I put into these teams (and I put alot) that ultimately this is just a game and not to let to take it all too much to heart to the point that it consumes my life.

It's funny, I work with alot of Eagles fans here in Delaware and most of them are under the same attitude as I am - yeah they pissed me off during the off-season but it's not the first time they'll do it and not the last time. And these are the same type of people who have spent the money on the tickets, spent the money on the merchandise and put just as much heart into it as anyone else.

So the Eagles pissed you off, trust me they aren't any worse off for the few fans they have lost. Perhaps because I to take the games for what it is - ENTERTAINMENT I can enjoy them as much as I do.

[BeachBaby]

47. Um, I didn't "take up" with another team.

From where did you get that?

And believe me, Lynne, I've been plenty pissed off by the Eagles for other things they have done through the years....but they were of the game-related variety (horrible clock management, bad play-calling, etc).

Again you're missing the point. The Eagles are no longer a character team - something that they prided themselves on. And that was the team that I was proud of. That team no longer exists. The Raiders are a team that has earned a bad reputation - and it breaks my heart that my team can now be compared to them.

Hey - if you have no problem cheering on, and singing the praises of, a cold-blooded killer, well....some could say that your actions are indicative of the kind of person you are.

[LynneSin]

51. This is football, you're going to find bad characters EVERYWHERE

And as for Vick, he has done his sentence to completion. Boy I hate to see what you think of Ted Kennedy, I mean he did leave that girl in the car to drown - did you ever let him slide on that one?

I'll reserve my judgement over time when it comes to Vick which means I neither have a positive or negative attitude - just "Wait and See". And no, I don't expect that Vick will be anywhere in the same league as Ted Kennedy but I do think Vick has the potential to do something really good with his life. I like that he is working with Tony Dungy, who is one of the most respected men in the NFL and someone who I think could help Vick turn his life around and make a difference.

And since everyday I make choices with the foods I eat, the clothes I wear and the products I use - many of them deeply tied to the abuse of animals, I hardly think I'm one to judge. Just because the chicken I ate today wasn't considered something that could be a valuable pet like a dog, doesn't mean it's life is any less value. You should look up that article written by Alec Baldwin - it really opened my eyes to the judgement I really wanted to pass on Vick but recognized that perhaps I've done wrong myself.

And btw, it's very difficult to 'cheer on' someone who hasn't done one thing with the Eagles. I mean hell, we've got McNabb injured and we're still brining in Jeff Garcia instead of seeing what Vick could do in the QB position.

[CreekDog]

53. Very informative. I'm glad BB started a thread to talk about Vick

oh wait. nevermind. :eyes:

[Shell Beau]

39. I have to agree with everything you say.

And just because I eat meat doesn't make what Vick did any less disgusting.

[rug]

41. You're right.

[madinmaryland]

50. As a Cowboys Fan, I will welcome you into our fold, should you choose

to join us!

We have a wonderful stadium, and a QB that TZ would die for!

:evilgrin:

[MrScorpio]

2. Leading the AL Central

[old mark]

3. Phils are still kicking ass, have something like 8 games to go to win the division.

Other baseball teams to watch Dodgers, Yankees.
Eagles - I PREDICT - will lose no more than 4 games this season, will go to the playoffs again and maybe higher.
Other football teams to watch: Ravens, Saints.

Fearless forecast by the old one.

BB, great to have ya back.

markO8)

[old mark]

16. Correction- Phils need 6 games to win NL East. nt

[BeachBaby]

24. I believe that the number is 5 now.

:hi:

[old mark]

26. Going in the right direction........

I really believe the Eagles will be the top in the NLF East, too....

If I had money, I'd bet on it.

mark

[TZ]

4. *sigh*

At least they will finish better than the worst team ever the 67? Mets...
I am rooting for the Phillies to do well..:)

[BeachBaby]

25. Just stare at Jayson Werth for awhile.

He'll make it all better. :P

[JonLP24]

5. Go Rockies!! All the way!!

:woohoo:

[madinmaryland]

6. Five games ahead of the Natinals.

[TZ]

7. how's that 17th losing season in a row treating you?

You guys have any promising young talent to trade away next year? :rofl:

[madinmaryland]

11. The promising young talent that we brought up this year!

We have the routine perfected!

[dropkickpa]

22. And on worst losing streak since 1890

At least we have THAT distinction. :banghead: :cry:

[EastTennesseeDem]

8. Magic number is 3

[EastTennesseeDem]

21. Make that 2

[SteppingRazor]

9. I root for four teams -- the Dodgers, the Rockies, the Cards and the Marlins.

It's looking to be quite a postseason. :)

[Parche]

10. go phillies

:hi: :hug: :loveya:

[Dr. Strange]

12. 2.5 games back

I'm biting my fingernails (as is my twin, I'm sure).

[flvegan]

13. Headed to our World Series victory destiny.

Yeah, we'll be in there on the wild card, but we're in there.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

14. Cubs suspended Milton Bradley for the rest of the season.

Buh-bye, now, MB.

[TK421]

17. Well....we still got the Phils!

:hi:

[JimGinPA]

18. Pretty Good So Far...

B-)

[Iggo]

19. They're doing okay.

[azmouse]

20. Suckingest suck of a team that ever sucked...

Go Dbacks!

[KG]

28. been amusing watching the Rays, and the fan bandwagon come crashing back to earth

it's also muted the cries for a new (taxpayer funded, of course) stadium.

[charlie and algernon]

33. Marlins need to win out to have any shot at making the post season

[Forkboy]

35. I'm gearing up for hockey season.

The Red Sox are now an afterthought to me, but they did their job and kept me entertained until football and hockey got underway. That's all I ask. :)

[Beer on a stick]

44. Excellent. It means that POS 'sport' baseball is almost over.

[AngryAmish]

52. I took the Cubs out and shot them behind the barn in mid-August

6 games over but they got crushed by St. Louis.

bear down, Chicago Bears.