Need advice Re: Dealing with Auto Salespeople

[TheMightyFavog]

Well, Now that the insurance stuff is settled, (all that's left to do is determine liability) The time has come to shop for another car. My parents will pay for it, however, I must do the dealing and negotiating with the dealerships. I have never done this before, and I'm really unsure of my negotiation skills. Should I go in playing hard-to-get, or should play hardball right from the moment I step on the lot? Do any of you DUer's have any tips and advice for me?

[GOPisEvil]

1. Do your research ahead of time.

Know what the car should cost. Establish a price you are willing to pay. If a dealer won't meet your price, leave and find one that will.

[radwriter0555]

17. EDMUNDS.Com is THE best car info site...

you just can't do any better.

[pagerbear]

2. Never believe a word you hear until you see it in writing.

[Blue-Jay]

3. Are you buying new or used? n/t

[TheMightyFavog]

13. Used

End of Line.

[Blue-Jay]

22. OK.

There are plenty of resources at your fingertips to find out what a used car is worth, based on reliability and mileage. Stay within your budget. Offer a fair price, and don't budge. Dealerships NEVER take a loss on used cars, as they've purchased it for less than the actual value. Most people who trade in cars figure it's worth getting less than the value to save the headache of selling it themselves.

Name your price. Don't budge. If they won't work with you, walk. Also, as soon as they say, "I need to get the manager", they actually mean "I'm going to get a better salesman/smoother talker to break your resolve". The salespersons know damn well how low they can go on the price, and they don't need a manager to OK it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. Dealerships NEVER take a loss on used cars,

However they will sell a used car for what they have in it, resulting in not making any money on said vehicle, rather then have it go old age, which would result in a loss. My husband is a vehicle director (used cars). And yes salesmen do need to a manager to OK a price, especially if that price means only breaking even. Not all used car salespeople are crooks and smooth talkers out to rip the customers' head off. What, business' aren't allowed to make a fair profit? Even car dealerships?

[Blue-Jay]

38. I wasn't saying that dealerships don't deserve a profit.

Of course they do. That's why I said "Offer a fair price". Note the italics.

My point was that dealers get their used cars for less than the actual value. (mostly) If you offer a price that is close to the value, you get a good car at a good price, and they turn a profit. That's how it works.

[arwalden]

4. CarMax Is Our Friend....

Screw the guessing games and trying to avoid the "gotcha" salesmen. Just go to CarMax and find a decent used car at a decent price. My experience with them was positive and I've only heard positive things about them.

-- Allen

[TlalocW]

5. Know their tricks

The oldest is the leaving you alone to go talk with their manager about getting you a deal. If you want to throw them off, get up and leave with them to go talk to the manager, saying you'd like to meet him.

If nothing else, you piss off the salesman.

TlalocW

[never cry wolf]

6. Are you buying new or used?

Consumer's reports is a great place to start in either case. Do your research, know what it costs the dealer.

If you are buying new, screw the salesmen. I bought mine online using the info from consumers reports. There are numerous online services that are free. Just enter the specs for the car you want and your zip code and they will send your request to up to 6 local dealers and they will "bid" for your business. I got a GREAT price and the first time I saw the salesman was when I went in to sign the papers and pick up the car.

I will NEVER buy a new car any other way again.

www.consumersreports.org

[catzies]

7. Are your parents paying with cash or financing?

If they're paying with cash, and it's a fixed amount, the car cost neds to come in below whatever that amount is because of taxes & fees.

If your parents are financing a portion or the balance after cash, they should get pre-approved from the financial lending institution of their choice. Don't take dealer financing. You can do better and they will screw you.

Play 100% hardball from the minute you step on the lot. Car dealers can be ruthless, unscrupulous bastards and that's the good ones.

Why are you going to a dealer instad of private party?

[tridim]

8. When they start to ask you how much you want to spend

be prepared. You're looking for a car that matches your budget, not a budget that matches a car. I wish car salespeople would wise up, it completely turns me off when they ask that question, and they almost always do. "How much do you want your monthly payment to be?" How about $10.00/month Mr. salesdude?

They will also call and annoy you at home every month for awhile if you don't buy a car from them.

The best advice is to research on the net what others have paid, and accept no offer that isn't in line with that research. Just walk out if they offend you.

[historian]

9. some advice worked for me

go to edmunds.com with as much detail as possible and theywill give you a fair estimate of the cars worth. If its for a new car I believe that for a smalll fee you can print out the real price the dealer pays for the car.
Tell the salesman right off the bat - you want a price now (you dont want to negotiate with him running back and forth to some imaginary manager) youre not buying today youre not leaving a deposit youre not signing today - ask for best price then tell him you are going to look around for a few days. If you find a better offer youll call him and give him a chance to beat the price.If he disagrees with anyone of the above, i would leave right away.
Oh yes and dont let him trickyou into asking how much you can afford a month - hes going to try and sell the car on that and finance it through them at a much higher rate than you would ordinarily pay
good luck

[camero]

10. Get the blue book value of the car you want

and then you have some info when you go to the dealer. Tell them you have an offer of a couple thousand dollars below the price of thier vehicle. And then shop around.

[LynneSin]

14. So car salespeople are bad because we lie...

but consumers lying is ok.

:crazy:

That is the worst advise, sorry. As an ex-salesperson we'd let them walk and sell the car to the next person who showed up to buy it. And believe me - I wouldn't even bother with a follow up car.

[camero]

15. So

It sure beats buying a lemon.

[LynneSin]

18. What does the price of the car have to do with being a lemon

You could get the low-ball price and still drive off with a lemon just as much as you could overpay for the car and do the same thing. Lemons have nothing whatsoever to do with the price of the car.

Last time I bought a car, which was a year old car, I had my blue book value of the car. Then I asked the salesperson if I could see the invoice of the used car and find out what they paid for it and how much work they put into it. I saw all the receipts and new I had a great price. They even went to that website and we printed out a copy of the VIN history so I knew that there was no previous damage done to the car.

[camero]

21. It's called negotiating

Real estate works in much the same way. Sorry you don't like it. Consumers wants to buy low, seller wants to sell high. With any sense, a compromise is reached.

[LynneSin]

27. Again - what does this have to do with buying a Lemon car?

You implied in your earlier post that some how negotiating will prevent you from purchasing a lemon.

If that is the problem then ask your salesperson if you can take your car to a local mechanic and have them check it out - most reputable dealers will allow you that.

And there is one thing with negotiating and another with throwing out an uneducated low ball price that even an honest salesperson will not touch.

[camero]

29. Not getting suckered into a bad deal.

[LynneSin]

30. Again - what does a bad deal have to do with getting a Lemon

I'm going to keep repeating this because you have no replied to post #15 - which was basically it's better than getting stuck with a lemon.

I'm still curious - how does the price of a car have anything to do with buying a lemon?

And the only people who get suckered into bad deals are the ones who over negotiate. Bring in the blue book and be honest with your sales person - you will never ever go wrong with the car you buy?

[camero]

32. Psychological Warfare

I always love these threads. :) Someone asks for advice then you get the ones in the occupation going, "My occupation is the best. All the people are honest. Blah blah blah blah blah blah."

The deal is that the salesman cares not one wit about the buyer, only thier own paycheck. And it helps to go to as many places as possible to get the best possible car.

It doesn't have anything to do with getting a lemon. Getting the vehicle maintenance records helps with that. If they don't have them then no sale. I never buy a car without it.

Geesh, I think the most honest occupations are the driving occupations because they will be almost brutally honest as to what goes on in thier line of work.

[LynneSin]

34. Only person who loses in 'psychological warfare' are those who do it

Seriously, you think car salesperson that dumb to not know all the lies and tricks that customers try.

Pul-lease - we see it as we walk through the door. The biggest winners are those who research the information and work with honest & fair negotiation.

[camero]

35. All I know

are that there are alot of dealerships and going to one or two doesn't do anything. And frankly saying most salesman are honest is a lie in itself. If that were true, there wouldn't be a no-call list or consumer advocacy organizations.

[LynneSin]

41. And all customers are pretty much liars

I never said 'don't shop around'. I said don't be stupid in your negotiating and don't overshop around.

One day we have to stop the lying - are customers any better if they are lying? Are salepeople any worse?

But all 3 cars I've bought I've gotten from the first dealer. My first car I got through my best friend's boyfriend. Since I was a dependant to a GM employee (my mother worked for EDS), I had an automatic discount off of new cars so there wasn't really any major negotiating nor any trade-in.

2nd car I bought from the dealership where I use to work and the General Manager came out with the invoice from the used car. I knew it was a fair price and bought it.

Last car was the first time I was out there on my own. I was actually at 3 dealerships til I found the one. I knew from research what the price ranges were for 1 year old Volkswagons, Hondas, Toyotas and Mitsubishis so I knew what kind of price I was looking for. I also knew the rate from my credit union and found it to be the same as through Toyota. I wanted a Volkswagon but the salesperson was beyond stupid (I said I want a car around $10k - never once did he find out that I actually had $10k to spend AND I could do a loan to cover the rest - and Volkswagon was my first choice). THe salesperson at Toyota was just the best. And he gave me the fairest deal that was about $250 more than what I wanted to spend but the car I was looking at had 5k less miles in it than the others. And I knew what they bought that car for and how much money they paid to clean it up and sell it. And yes, I gave him some profit over that cost because lets face it - they're working stiffs like the rest of them.

I researched my car after I got it home and found that I had a pretty decent price. I treated my salesperson fairly and he did the same to me.

[camero]

42. Yeah Yeah Yeah

:P

[creeksneakers2]

11. Don't negotiate the price

Know exactly what you want first, including which extras. Consumer reports is great for that. Then make them bid. Nothing else is relevant.

[LynneSin]

12. As an ex-carsalesperson, let me give you some advice

I'll be honest - some of this stuff posted drives me nuts because believe it or not - car salesfolks have evolved immensely since the car salesperson of the 70's in the bad polyestor suit.

Believe it or not - be fair and honest with them and they'll do the same for you. People thought us salefolks were such lying sack of shits but believe it or not - the customers many time were bad and even worse.

Your best bet is to research research research. I've read Consumer Reports and it has great information about the reliabilty of used vehicles and wholesale cost of new ones. However, if you follow their techniques for buying a new car you'll be running around to every dealership in a 50 mile radius just to save an extra $10. And believe me, I could convert those idiots - First I told them what was a fair profit we were allowed to make over wholesale (saying that alone brought me in tons of customers and I could even get it at $100 over invoice - then I'd show them the invoice, they'd see it was identical to the book and we'd write the deal) and the other thing for the overshopper - I just told them I'd sell the car at $10 lower than whatever their lowest price was provided that the car was identical. That usually worked about 50% of the time and the half that didn't come back I really didn't want them as customers anyways.

Your best research are your friends, family & neighbors. Many of them have cars that they like and will recommend a model to you. Others will have great experiences with a particular car dealership/salesperson and you should get that person's name. We can only give you so much advice online - you need to talk to those who have shopped in your area.

Second - never buy a new car. Seriously!!! Even if you are looking for a new model - I usually go with one of the pre-own cars. These are cars that are about 1-2 years old, low miles and are usually certified by the dealership. And they all come with great warrenties. If you are buying a car that is 1-2 years old - buy it from the dealership that sells that type of car. (ie - buy your pre-owned toyota at a toyota dealership).

I'd stay away from the used car lots. Many of them specialize in folks with bad credit who are desparate for a car loan.

Oh, and if you buy a used car, ask the dealership if you can take the car to your local mechanic. Even if you don't have one, just see if you can try it out for a couple of hours to get a real feel for it. Many dealerships will allow you to do that!

Have fun - don't take it all that seriously and do plenty of good research!!

[radwriter0555]

16. Buy from a private seller. You'll save several thousand dollars

by doing your homework and making your own deal with a private party.

Make arrangements with a reliable mechanic to inspect your car. Should cost about $40.

Research the car on edmunds and that fact checking site.

Do your HOMEWORK.

[LynneSin]

19. Private sellers sell their cars at book value, not wholesale value

Blue book shows the value for both. Plus you'll have very little warrenty or protection if the car is a real lemon. The only way I would buy from a private party is if I knew the person (or someone I trusted knew the person).

[happyiowan]

20. another car salesperson

No - we're not the hucksters you think we are. Most of us are paying mortgages, raising families and doing our jobs. We're not sneaking off to talk to imaginary managers. We're actually going to talk to real managers about real decisions regarding how much room we have to negotiate on the vehicle you're inquiring after. Because the ecomony is weak most of us are currently struggling on a monthly basis to make enough to pay our bills. By being dishonest or unpleasant to you, how do you suppose we survive in this business? Especially with stereotypes like I've seen here. Know what you want and know approximately how much it should cost. If you don't play games with your salesperson, chances are she won't play games with you. Frankly, she doesn't have time. Every minute she spends with you is a minute she isn't spending selling a car to someone else. As was said above, good luck and have fun. I think you'll find most salespeople are normal, friendly folks who are quite willing to help you find a car in your price range.

[DancingBear]

23. If you're buying new - try these things

1) After you've selected the model you want, research pricing on Edmunds.com. Next, spend about 2-3 weeks or more looking at newspaper ads. If the newspaper ads show a lower price for that vehicle (and many times they do), cut the ad out and save it. This gives you the BASELINE for negotiations. DO NOT factor in rebates at this time - they are completely separate. Negotiated price is always before any dealer incentives. They cost the dealer nothing - they're just a pass on from the manufacturer to move product.

2) Go to at least two dealerships, show them this price, and see if they can SUBSTANTIALLY better it. Make them aware of the fact that you are not willing to buy at this price, but you definitely are going to be buying. If they will give you a price at this time, thank them and tell them (honestly) that you are waiting to get a price from the other dealer on your list. If they won't give you a price, leave and cross them off your list. You don't need those headaches.

3) From here on in, negotiate pricing via either email or fax! This way, you can be firm in your demands, and no one can pull the bullshit "manager" thing on you. Once someone agrees to your price, have them send a confirmation email (with the price on it) so you'll have it in writing. Once this is done, it is not fair to take it to yet another dealer and look for more off - be happy with what you have.

We recently purchased a new car, and did exactly this. The car we bought is being built to our specs, as the only ones available to us were loaded with options I didn't want (we bought an Audi, BTW). The first dealer we went to was quite abusive, and told us (literally) we were crazy, as NO ONE would sell a car for that price AND have to wait for it to be built (12 weeks). The second dealer agreed to our price, was very helpful, and calls us once a week to give us delivery and build time updates. They also agreed that, when it comes time for service, they will bring a loaner to my wife's place of business, since the dealership is quite a ways from our house.

We used this strategy when buying a car for my mom (Nissan) and it worked that time as well. Good luck!

[afraid_of_the_dark]

24. Beware of the question "How much are you looking to spend?"

If you answer them with a low price (8,000 or lower, from my experience), then they'll drag out every piece of junk they have on the lot and try to sell it to you. If you answer with a higher price, they'll show you cars waaaay out of your budget, and will be less likely to dicker with you.

And beware of the 0% financing scam - most people don't qualify for it, and if you take it, there's other ways they get you (misc. fees). If you go to a dealer who is currently running this "deal," and you want to pay cash, they will give you a hard time about it.

[tigereye]

25. go to Saturn

they don't play games and are really nice in general

a member of the Saturn cult

[TheMightyFavog]

37. Problem..

Saturn of green bay ain't got shit that I can afford.

[tigereye]

40. yeah I guess they cost more than they used to

there was a nice Ion lease deal...

I have an Ion and I love it

[TheMightyFavog]

45. OK....

I've been told to avoid most mid '90s GM and Ford products like the plague, with the exception of Grand Ams, some Buicks and Oldsmobiles and the sportier Ford products like the Mustang and Probe. I'v also been told to stay the fuck away from Corsicas, hell stay away from anything that has been within half a meter of a Corsica. I've been told that most imports like Hondas and Toyotas run really well, but when they do break down, they'll cost my ass, cock, and balls to fix. Anything else?

[TheMightyFavog]

26. Looking at local chevy dealer's website now.

We got my old tempo from these guys. I found a cool '94 Sunbird. It's got over 160000 on the ticker, but I think I can talk them down from $3900 to at least Blue book value $2880

[LynneSin]

28. NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

I don't care how cool it is - GM cars do not make good used cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially with that many miles on it!!!

If you're looking in the very low range for price - go import. Toyotas, Hondas and Volkswagons can drive forever even if you get one with high miles.

[Blue-Jay]

31. Preach it Lynne!

Especially not a goddamn Sunbird! Those things are turds on four wheels. (apologies to Sunbird owners)

[LynneSin]

39. Here's what I can tell you about that car

the car was probably traded in for $500 since a 160k mile GM car isn't worth much more than that wholesale. But it probably had a decent body (aka no rust) and clean interior and the dealership figured they could fix it up and resell it.

Most used cars have anywhere from $1-2k markup from what they paid for it. But that wholesale price of $500 does not include the the cost to make that car safe and driveable. With GM's almost guarentee it needed new brakes and I'm sure it needed a new steering columns (these are both notorious problems with older GM cars). Let's hope there wasn't engine work done on it (and I wouldn't be suprised) since GM's tend to blow engines after 100k miles.

That car is a plague!!

[camero]

36. Actually scratch my first post

If you can go to an auto auction in your area. Sometimes you can get really good cars at a good price there. Some are repos and others are dealer trades. Then at the very least you know what the dealer is buying the car for.

[LynneSin]

43. never ever buy a repo

<cringes>

Believe me - if people can't be bothered to make payments on their cars they usually aren't the type to keep their cars in good shape. I've seen too many repos in my lifetime and they usually ended up at those used car lots that target folks with crappy credit

[camero]

44. At the very least you have info.

:P And you know the dealer cost. Most used cars are bought at auctions. Information.