Update on "The Narcissist ", and some thoughts about bad karma

[Lil Missy]

Here are some previous threads about the narcissist:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8128389

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8654618

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8694665

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8722490

Upon last update she had resigned from the bar because she was not getting her way. She wanted the other bartenders fired so she could take over their shifts. In April she threatened to resign if she didn't get her way on how to run the place and wanting more hours, and they didn't budge. She gave them a written resignation thinking they'd beg her to come back. They didn't, so she decided she would withdraw her resignation. They told her that it had already been accepted and refused to ever hire her back. She was livid again, of course. :eyes:

She then threatened file a complaint with the liquor commission about a bunch of bullshit she made up. They didn't budge. She showed them the letter she wrote, and again demanded to be hired back under her terms and conditions or she'd mail the letter. They said go ahead. So she did. (Nothing ever came of it.) In the meantime she continued to stir shit with customers and cause more problems for the bar.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. She went to the hospital with shortness of breath. She was admitted and found to be full of lung cancer that is beyond treatment. She was discharged to home under hospice care. She is failing quickly.

Wow!

I have mixed feelings, and I've also been thinking a lot about karma. As far as feelings go, I wouldn't have wished this upon her, but it would be total hypocrisy on my part to gush over her now with sympathy and some pretense of an affection that I've never had for her. She caused me a lot of problems too, although it's been several years ago. I could never stand the woman.

I've always believed in what goes around comes around, and that the bad people visit upon others will come back to bite them in the ass eventually. Is this her karma? Would a spiritual lesson come as a death sentence? But then, when bad things happen to good people, is that karma too? How strict is the principle of karma? For instance, would I have to believe then that my son dying a sudden and tragic death was karma getting back to him? Or to me? He was completely innocent, and I've never done anything so bad that I visited that upon him or myself.

I really don't know the answers. I just think it is really sad. She's not going to get a second chance at true happiness or making right with all the harm she has visited upon others. What really creeps me out is that she sent an 8x10 framed picture of herself to the bar and requested it be displayed, surrounded by candles. Like a living shrine. In a place she is no longer welcome.

What are your thoughts on karma? Is this really karma? Or just the law of shit happens?

I just know I am feeling really grateful these days that I am feeling right with the world.

Lil Missy

[cherish44]

1. I'm a big believer in karma

And I've found that negative people like this woman do tend to develop serious health problems. Sorry to hear that anyone is suffering from cancer. I hope she finds enlightenment and comfort in her final days.

[Lil Missy]

2. Really? .... I had not considered a physical cause and effect. But, I can see

where a lot of negative energy can cause mental and psychological problems, and even bad luck.

In her case, I would also say that the owners of the place enabled her continued jackassery by putting up with so much, AND hiring her back.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. People don't develop cancer

because of "negative energy."

People don't get sick because they do lousy things.

People get sick, have accidents, have unfortunate things happen in their lives because they're human.

Maybe grouchy people get into more hassles than other, less touchy people and end up not taking very good care of themselves, or lack the resources, or just have lousy genes.

Look, bad shit happens to everyone.

Even nuns die of cancer...................................

[Lil Missy]

13. That makes better sense to me. Because really, terrible things happen to anyone.

:hi:

[NJCher]

21. karma works in mysterious ways

Cher

[northernlights]

29. you've never heard of psychosomatic illness?

People most certainly do get sick because of their own negative energy (i.e. bitterness, jealousy, rage and hatred). Such stressful emotions impact the immune system in very negative ways and leaves one more vulnerable to illnesses. And angry behavior leaves people more accident prone, speeding with their car, not paying attention, slamming things around, etc.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. Read my post again -

particularly the subject line.

::: sigh ::::

[lildreamer316]

3. Anger and bitterness literally ate her up.

It's horrible and sad. I also hope that she finds some peace now.
I'll be thinking about her, and also those she hurt; yourself included.

[Lil Missy]

7. Anger, bitterness, resentment and revenge totally consumed her life, all. the. time.

Now whether karma would come as a death sentence, well I'm not sure about that.

[noamnety]

4. cancer gets a lot of people - good and bad.

I find it a little Fred Phelpsish to look at something like lung cancer and declare they got it because they "deserved" it. And I find it troubling that there are people on this board right now with relatives who have lung cancer reading a thread where people discuss whether you get it from being a shitty person, if it's really your own nastiness eating you alive.

She's been working in a bar. Unless it's a nonsmoking place, she's probably been inhaling a shitload of secondhand smoke as part of her job, and it's not all that surprising if that's true that she's got cancer as a result of that exposure.

[anneboleyn]

5. Yes. I suffer from cancer myself as a young woman and I know children and lovely people with this

disease. Many of them in fact. The children are bad little things that deserve such punishment? Seriously. Please don't stoop so low as to even entertain the thought that cancer is somehow "inflicted" on "bad" people. Cancer is a disease that ravages millions, many of them beautiful, brave -- mothers dying of breast cancer, children dying of leukemia, fathers suffering as their colons are ravaged by disease. Nobody "deserves" such a death. Or obviously karma would play out in fair ways, with genuinely evil people suffering for their sins. Most often, they don't.

It also is really unseemly to gloat over someone's horrific deterioration as they waste away from a terrible, painful illness. Surely you have thought through the idea that someone might gloat if you became ill? Do you think these thoughts are healthy or humane?

[Lil Missy]

8. Thus, why I suggested it rather a case of "shit happens", with the personal example in my own life.

There was no "gloating" in my post.

[anneboleyn]

14. I think you answered your own question by raising your point about your son.

"For instance, would I have to believe then that my son dying a sudden and tragic death was karma getting back to him? Or to me? He was completely innocent, and I've never done anything so bad that I visited that upon him or myself."

Of course there was no "karma" behind your son's tragic death. As I said, look at the millions of truly evil people who live long lives (often the longest in fact) with no "karma" striking them down. Much as we may want logic or justice it doesn't work quite so simply does it.

[Why Syzygy]

6. Rate of cancer.

Smokers get cancer at the same rate as non-smokers. Move beyond the urban myth.

[noamnety]

9. "smoking accounts for nearly 90 percent of lung cancer cases. "

from the Mayo clinic.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lung-cancer/ds00038

I think I'll take their expert opinion over yours, no offense.

[Why Syzygy]

12. The Mayo cites no references.

Again. Urban myth and prejudiced reporting.

http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Editorials/Vol-1/e1-4.htm

If they would say that smoking increases the incidence of lung cancer or that smoking is a risk factor in the development of lung cancer, then I would agree. The purpose of this article is to emphasize the need to use language appropriately in both the medical and scientific literature (the media, as a whole, may be a lost cause). (...)

USWM smokers have a lifetime relative risk of dying from lung cancer of only 8 (not the 20 or more that is based on an annual death rate and therefore virtually useless).
No study has ever shown that casual cigar smoker (<5 cigars/wk, not inhaled) has an increased incidence of lung cancer.
Lung cancer is not in even in the top 5 causes of death, it is only #9.**
All cancers combined account for only 13% of all annual deaths and lung cancer only 2%.**
Occasional cigarette use (<1 pk/wk) has never been shown to be a risk factor in lung cancer.
Certain types of pollution are more dangerous than second hand smoke.3
Second hand smoke has never been shown to be a causative factor in lung cancer.
A WHO study did not show that passive (second hand) smoke statistically increased the risk of getting lung cancer.
No study has shown that second hand smoke exposure during childhood increases their risk of getting lung cancer.
In one study they couldn't even cause lung cancer in mice after exposing them to cigarette smoke for a long time.23
If everyone in the world stopped smoking 50 years ago, the premature death rate would still be well over 80% of what it is today.1 (But I thought that smoking was the major cause of preventable death...hmmm.)

http://www.lcolby.com/

http://seer.cancer.gov/csr/1975_2006/browse_csr.php

[noamnety]

15. That's probably because the Mayo clinic is a bunch of quacks

who don't understand the concept of medical research, unlike your editorial, which oddly ends its "smoking doesn't cause cancer" rant with a snarky completely off topic anti-abortion remark. Always the sign of a quality unbiased medical research article. ;)

[TZ]

17. the person who posted that isn't unbiased either

Thinks scientists are all liars. So to who to believe Mayo clinic or random internet idiot? hmmm.
Maybe Mayo did its own research being you know...a research hospital...

[Why Syzygy]

25. It's just the truth. Nothing more.

(I didn't catch the anti-abortion remark?)

There are plenty of reasons to not smoke. There's no need to drag out the bogus 'C scare' bomb.

There is also ample scietific evidence to support the mind/body connection, including every single drug trial. That's what the "placebo" percentile represents. Some people just aren't ready to accept it. It isn't "blame the victim", because in general we aren't informed.

(I knew one or another of the "Ignored" would show up.)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. There's an old Italian saying -

"You spit up in the air, it lands in your face."

That's worked for me in this long life of mine. I've watched it over and over. Sometimes it takes a long time for the spit to come down, but it always does.

Always..........................

[RandomThoughts]

16. If she has no friends, you should visit her.

you can be honest about the hard feelings but still be compassionate. If she doesn't have friends of family from around, she should not have to be alone.

Although it might be hard for you, and you would have to forgive the bad feelings first to be able to be compassionate, but everyone is less then perfect sometimes and sometimes compassion for anyone is a good thing.

But it is your situation, and I don't know your particular feelings. Just a thought on it.

Sending the picture may have been some request for compassion, maybe even her bad ways of acting was some mixed up form of that, hard to know.

[Lil Missy]

18. That is kind hearted of you to suggest reaching out to visit her now. Honestly,

if I were to visit her, I don't think it would be appropriate of me to bring up any hard feelings now. As of a few years back she knows where I stand, and her shenanigans over the past couple years have not involved me directly. I'd feel like an asshole rattling those old bones now.

She has some friends and family; she's not alone right now.

[RandomThoughts]

26. By being honest with old problems, I mean you do not have to be fake.

It makes sense that avoiding the topic would be a better way to do that, and still be honest.

Glad she is not alone.

[nuxvomica]

19. I don't think "bad karma" causes cancer...

But it could result in someone dying alone and unloved. Now that would be very bad karma. I believe life is a series of random events and how we deal with them is what matters. If you feel really sad about this, I would suggest you reach out to her, if that's at all possible. This is, after all, not just a random event in her life, it's also one in yours.

[SheilaT]

20. I have likewise noticed that people

who are judgmental, who are less than kind to others, and so on, seem to reap what they sow. There really is karma, even if it doesn't always play out in one lifetime.

I do know that children and other genuine innocents get cancer or have other terrible things happen, and sometimes it seems as though the wicked thrive and live long. And I wouldn't gloat over someone else's bad fortune (except maybe for Bush, Cheney, and some of the others around them, but that's something else)and the OP wasn't doing that.

I do believe strongly that we are here to help each other out. I believe that we come into this lifetime with goals and lessons to learn. I believe that someone may come into this life knowing he or she will die young from a terrible disease, that someone may choose to be the parent of such a child in this lifetime. I don't believe that I know or understanding everything, least of all how this karma thing works. When I read about the person in the original post I have to work very hard not to get angry and judgmental about her behavior. But to the extent she has made life miserable for those around her, it does almost feel as if there's been a direct payback. Sometimes shit does just happen. Sometimes the shit happens for a reason.

[Lil Missy]

23. I do believe she created her own misery. How awful it must feel to

be constantly trying to manipulate others, threatening, planning and plotting to seek revenge, all that energy spent on negativity. That sounds like a miserable way to live to me. I think she did get her ass handed to her for all of that.

It does almost seem as though she was hand picked for this, but I'd prefer to think this a random event and her number came up. Just seems to cruel for karma.

[Tobin S.]

22. Nah, Missy. You're over-analyizing this

She probably just smoked too much or had unfortunate genes.

[Heidi]

24. I don't believe karma, if it exists, happens in this life.

I also don't believe in "deserving" stuff, whether good or bad. An argument against karma is the death of your sweet son. Another is that my father, just 65 years old, is dying of liver/pancreatic cancer, after having led a very clean life of helping human beings and, especially, stray dogs.

Karma isn't law. It's just an anaology, in my opinion. Please don't judge this woman too harshly.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

27. You will be better off letting this go

No matter what turmoil this person caused in your life, she is dying and you should let your bitterness or anger go.

It feels better if you do.

[pitohui]

28. karma is a hateful belief and everyone who lives long enough has serious health problems

i have relatives who never hurt a fly, one of whom was 20 yrs in a nursing home w. dementia

fuck those who believe bad only comes to bad people, they create an unnecesary second level of shame for those who have done nothing to deserve being ill

live long enough and everyone on this site will develop heart disease, cancer, dementia, or another serious illness

what do you want us to say to a post like this? bad people are not exempt from sickness and aging, so they get sick just like the rest of us, doesn't mean it's karma, it means...bad people are human beings too

i am glad you feel right w. the world and can enjoy your enemy's suffering, but be aware one day you will suffer too...maybe that's karma, the only real karma there is

we are all flesh and blood

one of my relatives died at age 3 of cancer, maybe she was a narcissist too?????

[northernlights]

31. I've just read your threads about this woman

I guess what I don't understand is if you don't work there and don't have to go there and hate this woman so much...why do you even go? Why do you worry about the comments box she brought in? Why subject yourself to this "pervert" and "pig" as you have referred to her?