Is this an age-appropriate question for a 7 year old in 2nd grade?

[KitchenWitch]

You have a 10 sided shape (don't try to draw it). From one of the vertices draw lines to all of the other non adjacent vertices. How many shapes do you have and why?

Seems to me this is more of a 10th grade geometry question. Because they are asking her to envision a 10 sided shape rather than drawing it out.

[jobycom]

1. Awfully sexual for 2nd grade.

I'm still trying to work it out. :wtf:

[KitchenWitch]

2. very funny!

:rofl:

[OmahaBlueDog]

3. 5th grade, maybe

Not 2nd

[flvegan]

4. With SlapChop, you no longer have a boring tuna nor life.

That's all I've got.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. 2nd grade? Nope. I have bright little boys but I think that question would have thrown

them for a loop at 7, although if they could have drawn it and had "non-adjacent" defined for them they would have been fine.

[RiffRandell]

6. No way.

My son is in second grade. Granted, our state is practically last in education scores, but I think that question is pretty challenging.

[elshiva]

7. A 10th sided shape? That is too complex for a 7 year old.

An octogon would have been fine because of the stop sign image, but what is there that is 10 sided in everyday life?

Also, why not try to draw the shape? It's difficult to envision it.

[Lil Missy]

8. I could do that in 2nd grade. I was in the honors classes. Damned if I could do it now though.

[stewartcolbert08]

9. LMAO

Ok. What did you JUST say? Because I have no idea what you just said!

[KitchenWitch]

11. I have taken two years of college calculus and I had diffculty with the problem.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. If I can't draw it out...

:wtf:

That was the first thing I was taught to do.

Draw it out...

[elleng]

12. 'Vertices?' 'Non-adjacent vertices?'

Aside from the up-grade geometry problem, I seriously question the use of the vocabulary (Unless the kid is an Aspie!) for a 7 year old.

[KitchenWitch]

13. Yes, that was the question

And that was the vocabulary.

[elleng]

14. Shocks me!

and my daughters, 20 and 24, have always had pretty good vocabularies.

[DeepBlueC]

15. that is ridiculous

utterly ridiculous. Is this curriculum?

[KitchenWitch]

17. It was photocopied from another math book

Part of the California standards, but not sure which grade it is part of the CA standards for. I am guessing at the earliest, middle school.

But Irvine standards are set MUCH higher than California standards. Sometimes that is a great thing, sometimes not so much.

[DeepBlueC]

24. at what grade level are vertices explained?

kindergarten? I actually find that offensive. Using it in Grade 2 seems to be designed to make the teacher look smart and the kids feel dumb. I have known college profs who prided themselves on flunking two-thirds of their students whereas I simply thought it make them look like ineffective teachers, but this is a way too much in grade school. I'd be inclined to take it up with the principal and further if I got no satisfactory explanation there. That kind of thing is designed to make kids feel as if they can not succeed. Things must have accelerated a great deal since my grade school days. We didn't even get to long division until Grade 4.

[Danger Mouse]

16. Hmm...what math program?

[KitchenWitch]

19. I do not have it in front of me at the moment

I will look at it later and tell you. It was a photocopied piece though so I am not sure which math curriculum it might be from.

[Danger Mouse]

21. I work with Saxon, which is a very interesting program.

That one exposes students to complex things early, works things in as it goes along...it's kind of cool.
The vocabulary seems kind of...harsh...but I can understand the integration of the vocabulary into the lesson. Still, they should make sure the kids understand the vocabulary.

[AwakeAtLast]

45. Is that "Everyday Math"? n/t

[begin_within]

18. Correct response would be:

"Do you mean including all the overlapping and contiguous shapes possible, or only the mutually exclusive ones?"

[KitchenWitch]

20. !!!

That is hilarious.

There was another question about a guy driving around the block to find a parking space (which did not tell the shape of the block driven around). The question was "How many times did Fred turn?".

I had K put down 4, but I put in my handwriting that there was not enough information in the question to answer it properly.

[ThomCat]

22. It is definitely too complex for a 7 year old unless it's a

advanced class of some kind.

Basically, you're making a 10 sided, 10 slice pizza, but they could use much better language to get this image across. I seems like they're deliberately trying to make this problem more difficult than it has to be.

[KitchenWitch]

23. Stuff like this is pushing me ever closer to homeschooling.

[jmowreader]

44. With the nonadjacent vertices it would be an 8-slice pizza

And you're damn straight it's more difficult than it has to be...especially since you can't draw the shape out.

[RoyGBiv]

25. Well, maybe ...

The question isn't presented very well (or it might not be depending on what they've been learning), but the method of figuring this out does not require actually seeing the shape and is expressed with a simple equation that would be appropriate for a 2nd grader, imo.

Assuming the question actually is how many triangles are formed inside the decagon, then it is:

Let n = the number of sides.

(n-3)+1 = number of triangles inside the shape. Or, for a decagon, (10-3)+1 = 8

The number of shapes is 1 because connecting lines from one of the vertices to all the other non-adjacent vertices results in the creation of triangles, although different kinds of triangles depending on the shape you start with.

[DeepBlueC]

27. equations for a 2nd grader?

I went through an excellent schoool system in CT where we didn't get to long division until Grade 4. I saw my first equation in high school. Can things have changed that much?

[RoyGBiv]

30. Yes ... that kind

1+1 = 2 is an equation. We're not talking about differential equations, just simple simple substitution with one variable, which, with this question, is given to you.

I did those in 1st grade, and this was Oklahoma which isn't exactly known for academic excellence. Actually, I did those in kindergarten, which I remember vividly because it was at the end of the school year, and we had this huge build-up about learning some 1st grade math.

The difficult part is the concept of the order of operations, i.e. add what's inside the parentheses before subtracting the number outside of it.

Of course all this depends on what the teacher has been teaching. If the students know the equation of (n-3)+1, then it's simple. If the students do not -- and based on the original post I'd give high probability that the teacher did not give them this -- then it's a nightmare because it becomes a geometric proof, which is clearly too advanced for that age bracket.

[Mutley]

26. I don't even know the answer now, and I'm 29.

:cry:

[DeepBlueC]

28. on the other hand, do you care?

[NYC_SKP]

29. You'll get 8 triangles, but this would be a hard question for 7th grader.

Second grade, they must be kidding.

[rockymountaindem]

31. I think that question is too hard for the person who wrote it

considering that it doesn't make any sense.

[Deep13]

32. It means she's a serial killer.

I'm so sorry. :evilgrin:

[One_Life_To_Give]

33. What has been the preceeding prep? Context?

If multiple examples have been done on the board over the preceeding weeks this could be a fairly trivial exercise. If hit with it cold thats another matter entirely.

[qb]

34. I am sick to death of these new elementary school curricula.

My kids' school seems to try something new every couple of years. They overload the kids with too much homework, including questions apparently designed to single out a true genius, should one come along. They are too damn paranoid about keeping up their standardized test scores to let the kids have a little fun.

[KitchenWitch]

35. I know...

We are now in the midst of "preparing" for the STAR testing. :grr:

It is the suck.

[surrealAmerican]

36. I could see asking it IF it is a "follow-up" question...

... after having drawn (or seen) the pentagon, hexagon, etc. with lines drawn from one vertex, and counting the shapes(triangles) made for those.

[Rabrrrrrr]

37. If it were worded correctly, it would be an okay question. The teacher should be fired, though,

for being impossibly and unrepentantly ignorant.

"How many SHAPES are formed"? SHAPES?! Fucking hell, a lot, and it totally depends on the initial configuration of the ten sided figure.

If the teacher meant a REGULAR 10-sided figure, and the question was really "Into how my sections would this divide the regular polygon", that's a fair question.

But the teacher totally fucked this one up.

You can tell the teacher for me that he/she should go learn some goddamned math AND learn some fucking communication skills before teaching it to kids.

"10-sided shape" - only a total clueless shitwipe (or a grad-school professor who actually wants the students to find the formula for determining sub-shapes) uses language like that. And you can tell him/her that for me, too.

[cyberswede]

39. I think so

Chances are, they worked on a similar problem in class (using the same vocabulary). I think math is a lot of repetition in the lower grades, so I suspect the class talked about (and solved) a problem just like this (maybe with an 8-sided shape, or some other minor difference).

My second grader has definitely had math questions about verticies and angles & stuff this year. It's extra fun when the problems are written in Spanish. :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. Seriously, the teacher is a shitbrain.

I'm just really upset at how fucking ignorantly the question is posed.

Doesn't even say if it's a two-dimensional shape, or a three-dimensional one.

Imagine 2 identical pyramids, each with a regular pentagon for a base and five sides, that are then placed so their bases are touching entirely - you now have a ten-sided "shape" with seven vertices, in which the end vertices - that is, the vertices that used to be the tops of the pyramids - each touch five other vertices. And so, if one then draws from one of the end vertices, one can draw a line only to the other one, since ALL the others are adjacent. And in that case, NO new "shapes" are created, since at a minimum one must intersect the "shape" with a PLANE - a fucking PLANE, not a fucking LINE - in order to make a new "shape".

Goddamn, what a fucking idiot moron teacher.

[KitchenWitch]

40. Can I take you along to my next parent-teacher conference?

:rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

46. I think you should.

Idiot fucking teacher.

Math is a precise, systematic, logical system of symbolic manipulation - and she's making it sloppy with such imprecise asshole words like "shape" and "10-sided". She's teaching her kids that precision is irrelevant; that math somehow has the same flexibility that spelling and grammar apparently have in the schools now. "Oh, but we let Johnny spell however he wants - we don't want to ruin his self-esteem or self-expression" and then Johnny tries to get into college and the application reader looks at "I wahnt to bee in yore kolluj becuz 4 yeers I like to hav edjewkashun from place w/ hi smarts peeps so I ken wurk good jobs and stuff, you know LOL!" and says, "Oh, my God, this is fucking ludicrous!" and Johnny ends up at Cadaver Tech School where the only thing he ever learns is how to run a dialysis machine or string ehthernet cable through some Type-A jackass lawyer's office but he thinks he's earned a college degree because Cadaver Tech School doesn't want to hurt anyone's self esteem and so they tell their students that they're all getting the same education that they'd get at a college, but without all the stupid liberal arts nonsese bullshit.

Fuck her.

Goddamn criminally negligent in my opinion.

:grr:

[Inchworm]

41. All questions are ok by me

so long as the answer given is also evaluated correctly... I reckon.

Thinking is like opening roads in the brain. No matter what, no matter who, no matter how far advanced... thinking on this problem turns the roads into some sort of cloverleaf. I guess if you were so inclined to ponder this problem long enough you could have a super highway with 88 subdivisions each containing 8 houses per street with ever increasing population after each off ramp.

Then again, we could be talking about a highway with no exits.

I wonder if there are dead ends... overpasses.. how many plots make a plat...

Can you use 4 colors to paint each space and still have no two colors touching? There needs to be a fire department.

I reckon the first basic answer would be how many lines do you actually have if you don't include non-adjacent vertices. If you draw a line between adjacent vertices you really dwar no line at all.

It's one of those questions that have no expected answer, I think. The expectation is how do you answer a question there is no proper answer to without further research. My folloup would be... If you don't know, how would you find out?

At 7, the proper answer would be, "I'd ask dad/mom/grandpa/grandma/cool teacher/brother/sister."

At 20, you'd hope to hear, "let me get back to you on that" rather than "who cares."

Weeee! That was fun.

:*

[keroro gunsou]

42. a decahedron

you wanna mess with the teacher's head, ask them to find/draw a dohdecahedon.

hint: look inside the basic/advanced d & d boxes from the late 70's to early 80's.

[Starry Messenger]

43. I'm still trying to figure it out!

Why can't they draw it out? What would be the goal of that kind of question? No wonder kids grow to dislike school at an early age. :(