Deep Space 9 anti gay?

[Mobius]

http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/ds9.html
The only true bisexual or gay characters we ever saw on Deep Space 9 were the alternate Kira and Ezri in the parallel universe - the former being a villain, for those who don't know. Such negative depictions of gays and lesbians have a long tradition in Hollywood. Showing same-sex desires in movies or on TV has always been acceptable, as long as they were indicative of a negative character's moral corruption. DS9's lesbian and bisexual mirror universe characters do not rise to the level of offensiveness of, say, the character of Baron Harkonen in David Lynch's 1984 movie Dune, but their existence in the evil mirror universe, and the simultaneous absence of positive gay characters in our universe makes an unmistakable statement that same-sex attraction has no place in a positive vision of the future. This resounding and repeated slap in the face of the gay community is my primary reason for calling DS9 homophobic. But there are others.
"Tell me why there are no gay characters in Star Trek," says Ron Moore. "This is one of those uncomfortable questions I hate getting when I was working on the show, because there is no good answer for it. There is no answer for it other than people in charge don’t want gay characters in Star Trek, period. "

SNIP

So who are the "people in charge"?
In part V of the same interview, Moore gives us a hint:
" <..> That's one of the great things about Paramount. Paramount left us alone. They always left us alone. They let Next Gen do whatever it wanted. God knows it let Deep Space Nine do whatever we wanted. It lets Voyager do whatever it wants. The studio is not the problem here. The studio is going to let you go wherever you want to go, as long as they believe that this is quality, as long as they believe it’s good work. You’ve just got to come up with something good."
So if Paramount leaves Star Trek alone to do whatever it wants to do, and Rick Berman is in charge of Star Trek, then the inescapable conclusion must be that the complete absence of gay characters on Star Trek is Mr. Berman's fault, and his alone.

Guess what? Berman is gone! I can't help but wonder if this had something to do with it.

[Gore1FL]

1. Didn't Dax have a Lesbian Kiss with the host

of a symbiant of a former husband, or wife or something?

I don't know if there was a lack of Gay characters so much as they didn't bvring out gayness in characters.

The Captain's son always hung out with that Ferengi kid. While Odo chose the form like a man, he was sexless.

Unlike the original series, DS( wasn't filled with rampant inuendo one way or another -- people coupled, but that was hardly a mainstay of the show.

[Ysabel]

9. i thought odo had some kind of sex...

with kira...

i just never could figure out what kind of sex...

didn't he also have some kind of sex with lwaxanna troi when they got stuck in the turbo lift (?) okay - i know - she held him in her skirt when he went liquid because he couldn't get to his bucket - but i thought there was some sex going on there...

[Kamika]

11. no sorry

no sex

Odo could not have sex until he became a solid I think...

Sure wasn't with lxwana though

[Mobius]

13. in the end of the series, shapeshifters had a sex

and the Jadzia kiss was actually hetero since it was based on the relationship of the 2 symbiants when they were a hetero couple. The point the author makes in that article is that homosexuality is always presented in some watered down, negative or patronizing way.

[Kamika]

15. huh??

which shapeshifters had sex??

[Mobius]

16. lol, you know thats not what i meant GENDER

shapeshifters had a gender.

[Kamika]

19. oh right

Sorry my mistake..


But just how did they have a sex? I mean they could shape into anything

[Mobius]

20. omni sexual?

:shrug:

[Kamika]

21. I don't think they had a sex

Odo was a "man" because he wanted to look like the scientist who taught him stuff..

I seriously don't get why the founder in the alpha quadrant was a woman.. maybe she wanted to look like a mother to Odo..

But all in all they were just gel

[Astarho]

2. Well there was the thing on Enterprise

where Malcolm Reed was supposed to be the first gay regular, but that was dropped pretty quick.

[AngryYoungMan]

3. Sorry, I'm missing something...

Haven't followed Trek in a while (since Voyager bought it, actually).

1) Is Rick Berman gone?

2) Is the point of the posting that they got rid of him because he did some pro-gay programming?

3) Or, alternately, is the point that they got rid of him for his other risque programming?

I think Enterprise is really stupid, by the way. I'm a lifelong Trek fan but my opinions don't necessarily gibe with other Trek fans

[TOhioLiberal]

4. Nah, you're not wrong....

Enterprise is crap. The show is fundamentally flawed. The ship is not right (too 'modern' looking for a prequel) What I couldn't get past was the Vulcans are bigoted! Hello! Vulcans are supposed to be more evolved, not less.

(rant off :) )

[AngryYoungMan]

5. I'M wrong? What do you mean? What'd I say?

All I said was that "Enterprise" was stupid and that I needed someone to explain the original post.

I am anti-Enterprise, anti-Berman, and, if you really want to know, anti-TNG. I'm for TOS all the way. You misunderstood me.

[yorgatron]

6. DS9 is lame,watch Red Dwarf instead

there's a scene where lister and rimmer kiss if you go for that sort of thing.

[Khephra]

8. Ivanava on Babylon 5 was bisexual

And the one Psi was a lesbian, although she did turn out to be evil.

[Mobius]

14. they got rid of him because he did some pro-gay programming?

2) Is the point of the posting that they got rid of him because he did some pro-gay programming?
no, just the opposite, I think he left or was let go because he was the main writer, producer and creative force and was either homophobic or bigoted against homosexuals.

[DrWeird]

7. No, it's just anti good.

On a side note, what the fuck happened to Star Trek? It used to be a decent science fiction show for reasonably intelligent people. Since maybe later seasons NG it's developed into this god awful soap opera for the more nerdy fans of professional wrestling to watch when there's nothing else on.

I never thought I'd say this, but thank God for Richard Dean Anderson.

[Kamika]

12. ds9 was the best trek ever

Possibly best sci fi on tv ever (altough I never saw bab 5

[Kamika]

10. Jadzia had a lesbian kiss..

But seriously who cares..

And Those Klingons sure bonded alot ;)

[eyesroll]

17. I did like the parable re: Dax and Kahn

(the ex-spouse symbiont, not Kaaaaaahhhhhn!) That there was a re-association taboo.

That is how Star Trek presented homosexuality -- in analogy or parable. The episode of TNG where Riker fell for the genderless person was similar. I think it would have had a lot more impact if the genderless person was played by a male actor.

Or the TNG episode where we're first introduced to the Trill (in different makeup, with different rules, but OK). Crusher falls in love with Odan, who we later learn, is really a parasite, in a pretty dumb host. When Odan Host 1 has trouble, Riker takes over the symbiont, and Crusher has no problems whatsoever with continuing the romance. When the new permanent host arrives, Crusher finds out she's a woman and breaks up with her quickly. (From what I remember, Gates McFadden thought it was a cop-out. She wanted a goodbye kiss at least, but Berman/censors/whoever wouldn't allow it.)

Still, in recent years, I don't think I'd trust the Star Trek Powers That Be to write a decent gay character, without resorting to cliche.

[Mobius]

18. very well put.

the Odan episode is the perfect example of how Berman felt he had to address homosexuality, and to do so, used some derogatory manner.