The issue of steroids in sports: Do you care?

[dawgmom]

Personally, I don't care at all about this issue. It's a huge yawn for me. Of course, some of that might have to do with the fact that I don't care at all about professional sports. In fact, I thought one of the more bizarre lines in any State of the Union speech I have ever heard was the mention of steroids in sports by Bush during one of his SOTUs in the run-up to the 2004 election. I figured one of his pollstars must have identified a key voter demographic in his base that cared a lot about the issue.

So...how out of step am I? Just curious.

[TZ]

1. as a baseball/football fan it bothers me in that context...

but not enough to think it should be covered outside of ESPN and such. I think it was freaking ridiculous to have asked Obama about it last night..:grr:

[dawgmom]

11. Thank you!!! I thought exactly the same thing!!!

I guess that's why it was on my mind, and why I posted this. I thought that was totally inappropriate. Good lord...we're got much more important issues to worry about.

[Jamastiene]

69. Bingo,

except, I'm not a fan of football, just baseball. I agree with your opinion on this though. It fits.

[HopeHoops]

2. The only part of this issue I care about is WHY THE HELL DOES CONGRESS WASTE TIME ON IT????

[MrCoffee]

3. :thumbsup:

This poll needs an "I agree completely with HopeHoops" option

[dawgmom]

15. Yup. Poll altered to include HopeHoops & TZ's thoughts nt

[dawgmom]

14. Agreed -- and poll altered to include your thoughts & TZ's -- nt

nt

[tigereye]

4. I guess I think the public/media created this monster with their incessant

hunger for greater and greater levels of achievement in all sports. So I don't know why anyone is surprised. It seems like a self-created tempest in a teapot. :shrug:


It's unfortunate, but there it is.

[Strong Atheist]

5. Sports are the least important thing in the universe. nt.

[hamsterjill]

7. Thank you.

I agree completely!!!

[charlie and algernon]

17. idk about that, its a multi-billion dollar industry that employs millions of people around the world

so it is at least a tad important to a lot of people.

[dawgmom]

20. Many, many years ago...

More than 30 years ago, I can remember a dear friend's father (a man I greatly admired) ranting about the evening newscast. "Why is is news, weather, and sports? Why not news, weather, and the arts? Our priorities are all screwed up in this country."

I wonder what he would say now, as more and more schools slash their art and music programs, but maintain their athletics. Yeah, I know -- athletics supposed pay for themselves through revenue, but that's not entirely true. And I'd love to see somebody try and eliminate football at a Texas high school, or basketball at an Indiana high school. Hell, they'd cut the English department before they did that.

[Strong Atheist]

51. I am a teacher. This is so true. nt.

[Oeditpus Rex]

53. Football might be self-supporting

The others, not so much. Basketball, maybe, at some schools.



The other argument is sports keep more kids in school than the arts. This is likely true, and rather sad.

[TZ]

58. Alot of kids go to school on atheletic scholarships

For sports like track, gymnastics, swimming, etc. They wouldn't be able to get an education without those scholarships. So to say atheletics is not important to education isn't necessarily true. Especially if you are female!

[dawgmom]

59. I know that's the argument

And in fact, a dear friend here whose son was a low-achiever academically credits athletics with getting her son to stay in school. However, I think the real answer is that we need both, because the very kids who are the most sensitive, who don't fit in -- they're the ones who find solace and refuge in the band room, the choir room, the art room, theatre class, and high school musicals. I was incredibly bored and unchallenged by the academics in high school. The only things that kept me coming to school were music and theatre.

Also, I shudder to think of what the current generation is going to produce in the way of music,if they have no understanding of the history of music, and of different genres. Example: my friend teaches high school, and when Aretha Franklin sang at Obama's inauguration, one of the kids said, "What's she famous for, Mrs. W?"

[Oeditpus Rex]

66. Please slap your friend for me

Of course we need both. We also need equal emphasis on sports and the arts. But I don't think that's gonna happen unless we start seeing Itzhak Perlman or Yo Yo Ma on Wheaties boxes.

[dawgmom]

67. Well, he's actually gotten his act together in college

Even though he didn't get into a very good college, he's focused now on what he wants to do -- sports medicine -- and he's achieving. She says that would never have happened if he had dropped out of HS. It's hard for me to judge, as I've never had to deal with an underachieving kid. I know that for her, it was terribly frustrating.

[dawgmom]

68. BTW...you clearly don't know about Indiana high school basketball

:)
It's a phenomenon. It's a state-wide obsession. I know; I grew up there. There was a statistic about it a few years ago, that of the ten largest high school gymnasiums in the country, EIGHT of them were in Indiana. (That's pretty amazing, for a primarily rural state.) Where I grew up, the gym seated more people than the population of the entire nearest main town.

In Indiana, basketball is very likely self-supporting (especially if you win in sectional, regional, etc., and you get a share of the tournament revenues.)

[Oeditpus Rex]

70. Hey, I've seen 'Hoosiers'

Have you read "Friday Night Lights"? :)

[dawgmom]

71. Nope.

But "Hoosiers" was absolutely 100% right on. That's exactly what it's like, even now. Although unfortunately, they've now gone to a Class tournament system, so small schools like that will never again have the chance of doing the David-Goliath thing with a large school to win all the marbles. That's taken some of the magic out of it.

I still remember a friend here commenting to me, after they had driven through Indiana on vacation: "It was amazing. EVERY SINGLE HOUSE we passed had a basketball hoop on the garage or on the barn." I had never really thought about that before, but the last time I went "home" I looked for it, and she was right.

I'm not athletic, but even I to this day have a pretty decent jumpshot. You grow up there, it's like learning to walk. :)

[crispini]

64. Right on! News, weather, and the arts -- that's how it SHOULD be!

heh.

[Forkboy]

76. Jello Biafra would agree.

Let kids learn communication
Instead of schools pushing competition
How about more art and theater instead of sports?

Having said that, I love sports. :D

[flvegan]

6. I think it's funny how much of a twist people get in over it.

As a fitness nut, the topic interests me but having our elected reps spend all that time and money chasing professional athletes and ghosts is absurd.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. and reporters wasting air time asking obama about this trivial crap when there is an economic

meltdown, 2 wars, civil rights issues, constitutional issues etc going on.

honestly..

[BeachBaby]

9. I don't lose sleep over it.....

but it bothers me much in the same way as free agency.

[dawgmom]

22. Heheeheh -- what's free agency?

Seriously, that's how much professional sports are NOT on my radar. I have a vague idea that it has something to do with athletes and their contracts, but I couldn't give you specifics.

[TZ]

65. Its basically a system

Where at the end of their contract a ball player is free to go to any team that bids the highest for his services. Kind of a modern day version of em..the oldest trade..Money is valued over the team concept.

[MissMillie]

10. I feel bad for all those who never make it to the pros

who follow the rules.

[MajorChode]

12. I think all pro athletes should be REQUIRED to do steroids

As much money as they are getting I want nothing less than max performance.

[dawgmom]

27. That would cut into their endorsement money, for sure

Think of the pimples.

I suppose they could all get endorsement deals with Pro-Active.

[mcctatas]

13. I only care if someone on the stinking Jets gets busted for roids

then I will be like "Call congress right fucking now"

[dawgmom]

23. The Jets -- that's hockey, right?

;)

[HardWorkingDem]

16. I used to care when sports actually meant something...

Like many others, I can't put my finger on it, but try catching the baseball series from HBO called When It Was A Game. Something happened to baseball and anymore, I could not care less about pro-sports. Just like so much of American society, it seems as if the ugly gets rewarded while the come to work everyday type people get screwed.

[dawgmom]

19. I don't like professional sports for probably the same reasons

I need to catch that series, thanks.

I'm a college basketball fan, but the game has changed so much because of the influence of the pros, I barely recognize it anymore. We've lost the idea of the scholar-athlete, and instead, it's been replaced with kids who can barely pass the SATs, who are only looking to go to schools where they'll get lots of playtime as Freshmen and Sophomores, so they can leave college and make millions in the NBA. So, we have a lot of showboating, run-and-gun, slam-dunk crap, instead of the disciplined TEAM game I grew up with. So, I sort of hate professional sports for that reason.

On edit: I'm a Cubs fan, but that's really more of a roots and nostalgia thing for me, and my penchant for lovable losers. In reality? I barely recognize baseball anymore, either. It's become such big business, instead of the national pastime.

[MilesColtrane]

18. The only thing that bothers me is how all those guys past and present...

...who opted to do the right thing by not doing steroids have been fucked by the cheaters, and no one really seems to care.

[dawgmom]

29. Isn't the whole "asterisk" thing supposed to take care of that?

But then, that's just my naivte on the subject, I suppose. As I don't care about professional sports in general, beyond perhaps watching the game that's going on right at the moment, I REALLY don't care about records and statistics and all that. It's a game -- when did we lose that idea?

[Lucian]

21. Fuck no.

[dawgmom]

26. Well, that's pretty definite. Ha! nt

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. My only option was 'other'

As it so often is.

I care a great deal about the use of "performance enhancers" in baseball for several reasons, not the least of which is it throws a big freakin' wrench into one of a fan's favorite pastimes: Evaluating and comparing players throughout history.

But when that bozo asked Obama about it yesterday and when Congress held hearings on it awhile back, I was like, "W. T. F??"

And just as I type this, a news flash: Former A's player Miguel Tejada charged with lying to Congress about using steroids. :eyes:

[dawgmom]

25. Thanks for your response

Two thoughts:

1)I'm usually like you -- I'm forced into the "Other" column, because I don't see very many issues as black and white.

2)Omigod. You're one of those baseball statistics guys? What was that movie where there was a funny bit about that, where the woman was razzing the two guys about how they could remember detailed stats on players, and she used an example, and they both corrected her -- knew the correct stat cold, without even thinking about it. Are you like that? Like, you know some players' lifetime batting averages, etc.?

[Oeditpus Rex]

28. 'City Slickers'

I'm not in Billy Crystal's league as far as memorizing players and stats (he really is like that, btw) and I'm certainly not a SABRmetrician — those uber-geeks who invent new stats to "level the playing field;" I think that's just stupid. But I have some numbers for a few guys from my yout' committed to memory.

Example: Sandy Koufax's ERA in 1965 was 2.04 and in 1966 it was 1.73. Willie Mays hit 660 homers in his career, 51 of them in 1965. Mickey Mantle's lifetime batting average is .298. Roger Maris hit his 61st homer in 1961 off Tracy Stallard. Mays hit his first one off Warren Spahn. The last batter Don Larsen faced in his perfect game in the 1956 World Series was Dale Mitchell; he struck out on a check swing on 2-2. The plate umpire was Babe Pinelli.

In my world, this is basic stuff. :silly:

[dawgmom]

34. Thank you! Now movies -- movies I care about

"So do you...do you hate baseball?"

"No I like baseball. I just never understood how you guys can spend so much time discussing it, I mean I've been to games, but I don't memorize who played third base for...Pittsburgh in..1960."

(Almost simultaneously)
"Don Hoak!"
"Don Hoak."
"Beat ya."

[Oeditpus Rex]

45. I think of that bit sometimes

Kinda puts things in perspective. There's no way I would've gotten that one.

Second baseman, yeah. Everybody knows it was Bill Mazeroski because of his legendary homer off Ralph Terry to win the World Series that year. :)

But it's not much fun just talking about who-played-what-for-who. The fun is in comparing players, especially across eras. I love discussing the history of the game, not just the names and numbers.

[dawgmom]

52. Well, being a history lover myself...

...I can relate to that aspect of it, I guess. Thanks. (Oh, and I did actually watch most of Ken Burns' doc about baseball. More because I love Ken Burns, than because I love baseball. I just think he's a genius. In another life, I would love to be a documentary filmmaker.)

[Oeditpus Rex]

55. I'd love to be one in *this* life

Actually, I think I'd rather be one of Burns' researchers.

[Crazy Dave]

30. All the people saying: "What do we tell our kids?" really tickle me

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

35. Including Obama?

That's pretty much what he said in response to the question yesterday.

[Crazy Dave]

74. Yes including Obama

Why should he be any different? It reminds me of the "Grand Theft Auto" thing a while back. Someone found out there was a hack that would play an animated sex scene in the game and there was the same "outrage". Even Hillary Clinton was outraged. Never mind the fact that the game is all about buying drugs, running people over and shooting them, that's just fine for their kids to see but not a sex scene. And it was just a generalization pointing out the hypocrisies in many (not all) of the people saying it. Most of the ones I see or hear are ones who probably drink alcohol in front of their kids (oh yeah but it's legal), smoke, take Viagra to enhance their sex lives, or have had cosmetic surgery to enhance their looks and they worry that if a gay couple moves next door to them it will ruin their marriage and indoctrinate their kids into their lifestyles. Ever been to a pro football game? Lots of drunks and profanity but that's ok for their kids too.

And if people are really worried about their children, why are they more worried about what grown athletes are doing to their own bodies instead getting outraged at all the billions of dollars in cuts and compromises to republicans in the new stimulus bill?

[Oeditpus Rex]

75. Because they don't understand the stimulus bill unless they're economists

And perhaps not even then. But "steroids = dangerous" is a simple and well-known equation.

[dawgmom]

37. Can you elaborate on that?

In what way, and how, do they tickle you?

[TZ]

54. Considering that abuse of these CONTROLLED substances is a problem in HS

I think thats a valid issue. Or do you think its okay for kids to possibly ruin their health forever on the off chance of becoming a pro athelete?

[Deja Q]

31. I care enough. Cheating doesn't help anybody. Might hurt too, and not in a legal sense.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. This is just one more drug

that I don't wanna have a "war on".

Legalize them all.

:hi:

[Parche]

33. this post is shot to hell

:woohoo: :hi:

[dawgmom]

36. Are you trying to needle me, Parche?

:hi:

[Parche]

38. no just trying to doctor this thread up

:woohoo: :hi:

[dawgmom]

40. Well, I don't know about playing doctor.

But thanks for the shot in the arm. ;)

[Parche]

41. you just drug me into this thread blind

:hi:

[dawgmom]

42. And you've injected your usual quircky brand of humor. nt

[Parche]

44. you are bloody right on that one

:woohoo::hi:

[dawgmom]

47. I want to use something with "prick" in it...

...but everything I started to write sounded mean.

[Parche]

48. i love a Dose of dawgmom in the morning

:woohoo: :hi:

[dawgmom]

49. Thanks. Does that make me a hit? nt

[Parche]

50. serumalicious

:woohoo: :hi:

[dawgmom]

56. Thanks. Sometimes I'm plagued with doubt.

[Parche]

57. I will need a band aid to fix this thread

:woohoo: :hi:

[dawgmom]

61. Or some other kind of bandage, Ace.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

39. I don't care about it for two reasons

1). I basically don't care about sports. At all.

2). I don't have kids, and don't plan to have kids, so it's not as if my kids are looking up to these pricks and deciding to follow their example.

:patriot:

[AlCzervik]

43. i stopped caring about baseball in 1986.

so no i don't care and my daughter doesn't look up to professional athletes as role models.

[skygazer]

46. I'm not interested in sports and I sure don't think this shit has any place in Congress

I do find it sort of a mirror of society as a whole, though - the idea that it's okay to cheat, or do things that you know are illegal/wrong/unethical etc. just because you think the end justifies the means. Hell, that's one of the things I hated about the last 8 years - it was the mantra of the Bush administration that the end justified the means.

Our society has such a skewed vision of sports particularly. On the one hand, we hold it up to be this model of cooperation and "sportsmanship" and a builder of character and the value of hard work and commitment, etc. ad nauseum.

On the other hand, we embrace ruthless competition (both in sports and in business - even education). We're sending such a mixed message about life in general - you need to cooperate and you need to DESTROY THE OTHER GUY!!! You need to practice sportsmanship and you need to DESTROY THE OTHER GUY!!! And we've elevated professional athletes to superstars and injected an absurd amount of money into the equation.

So what seems to be the obvious answer is to do whatever it takes to win, win, win. Even if that negates the whole idea of the game.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

60. As a sports fan, yes. Beyond the world of sports, not really.

It does ruin some of the integrity of the records and accomplishments. So it has a cheapening value. But there are a lot more important things going on.

[Shell Beau]

62. It is getting old. I am tired of seeing all of these

beefed up guys who would never be beefy in the steroid free world.

[dawgmom]

63. And I think it creates an unattainable standard

Just as 99% of women can never attain that doesn't-occur-in-nature body held up as the ideal (no hips, no ass, huge breasts), most men can never attain that beefed up body. So, great. Pretty soon we'll have a generation of MEN who feel as crummy about their bodies as most women do now....

[seemunkee]

72. What bugs me is how stringent the testing is for cycling compared

to football, baseball, basketball, but cycling has a reputation for drug problems. If they tested those sports the same, you wouldn't be able to field half the teams. How often does the NBA,NFL, MLB perform out of season random tests?

[flvegan]

73. If they were serious about stopping doping

They'd have mandatory monthly piss tests for everyone. Bottom line. Yes, some (but few) will get away with it. It'll be expensive, and it will cost some excitement in the game, but that's the only way it's going to happen.

[Forkboy]

77. Yes, but not to the point where the government should step in.

That 's just stupid, and if MLB and Selig weren't incompetent and/or complicit they could handle it on their own.

[Swede]

78. It's about the youngster who will abuse steroids,while idolising their heroes.

Steroids are like any drug,bad when abused.