Children in the hands of fundies: Your horror stories

[absyntheNsugar]

Anyone here ever raised in fundy schools or churches? Anyone have any horror stories from this time?

I do - as you may have noticed in a previous post I went to Valley Christian Junior High back in the 80's. Life turned from a hormone-induced hell to a living all around hell quickly. Besides being forced to go to a weekly chapel where speakers would come and tell us how evil, sinful and immoral we all were, they also did this in class.

Dancing was banned, as was evolution - but thats a given. The teachers would berate us, and if we questioned them it was labelled 'backtalking' and we were given corporal punishment.

Indiviuduality was seen as 'humanist pride', and often at parent teacher meetings they would tell my parents "I really wish he would stop saying he's a Christian..."

Oh I could go on but my blood is starting to boil a little.

Let me add that while at this school I started smoking cigarettes, snorting coke and crank (as well as anything else I could get my hands on.) My parents look at this school as the biggest mistake of their tenure as parents.

[AndyP]

1. I feel your pain

I went to a catholic school from K-6th grade. Too many bad memories to keep them all straight. I remember comming home crying a lot. When I went to a public school things got much better though.

Oh yeah one thing catholic school did make me, was an atheist :) I find that a little ironic. I was scorned for asking questions during religion class.

[Az]

2. I was raised Catholic, so of course I'm now an atheist - Bob Odenkirk

As said on the Daily Show.

[ret5hd]

12. I also went to a catholic school, from 1-9th grade.

Also turned into an atheist. HA!

But really, i guess my experience was quite different from yours. I credit the educaion i got there for enabling me to totally coast for the last 3 years of public school. And the critical thinking skills that i notice so many don't seem to have (or at least they don't seem to USE them).

And my liberal attitude. The school/parsh we belonged to had/has a very blue-collar attitude. When I was attending, the teachers were dominican nuns. Now, they are all lay teachers.

[corporatewhore]

3. some Klassic Krazy Kirstian "education" moments

Hmmm My religion and science teacher (i kid you not she was both thought it was so fucking ironic)
compared ken starr to a prophet/messenger of god
-when explaing evolution and why the book said that it is widely accepted amongst scientists she told us to keep in mind when she was a kid she told her parents that all of her friends were going to a trip when it was just her friend cathy
-told us the story of how she told her gay neighbor who had aids when he came out to her she told him he would rot in hell
-when vt did the civil union thing hinted that howard dean would rot in hell with the homosexuals
-made the zoo lady cry told her no True ChristianTM could believe in evolution while we were at a feild trip
I stayed for two years cause my mother thought it was better than a public school and my fundie great aunt knew the headmaster and got me a scholarship

[EstimatedProphet]

4. Got a good one

I was at the Belzoni MS catfish festival one year with a buddy. We were on a side street next to a used car lot eating some crawdads, when a woman in her 50's and clearly her grandson started by. the car lot had a big-10'-suit of armor out in front of it. they walk by
Kid: "Gramma, what's that?"
Woman: "That's the devil"
We decided then and there that's the "fundamental" problem- fundies look at anything they don't immediately recognize as something to fear. They're trained to do just that.

[tigereye]

45. oh my god!

[TheMightyFavog]

5. Hell, is a principal tried to paddle me at a fundie school....

I'd shove that paddle so far up his sadistic, sanctimonius ass, that he'd be tasting wood and/or leather for the rest of his life.

[absyntheNsugar]

23. I wish I did but as a terrified 12 year old

You do what they say, and you learn quickly not to question them.

Luckily, I can say they never broke me - but they only had 2 years.

[Ladyhawk]

29. If it's considered "normal" what do you do?

I had fundy education from 2nd grade on. The teachers used boards with holes drilled in them to make the experience more painful. I never got "paddled" because I was terrified into good behavior. The few times I rebelled I was not caught. :D

Just HOW did all those snakes get into the lockers of people I didn't like?

[corporatewhore]

6. I went on a ski trip withevangelistic babtist youth group

My rich great aunt offered me this trip was wary but there was no way my parents could afford to send me and had never been skiing
within two hours of the 24 hour bus ride my copy of Candide was confiscated for being too secular.They put on ghostbusters but turned it off within 30 mins for being too secular they replaced it with a Christian movie about the end of the world/rapture and the evil librul professor goes to hell.when we got to the place we got a fire brimstone sermon about how we should be scared that buddhism was rising in popularity because it is indirectly linked to satanism and we should be terrified that wicca is the fastest growing religon and is directly linked to satanism.i shared a room with a bitchy girl who snicthed on me watching a movie that had swear words in it. at journey home they played a christian movie with snowboards and christian skaterpunk music about being a virgin

[BlackVelvetElvis]

7. My friend, you have entered hell. n/t

[MisterP]

22. christian skaterpunk music about being a virgin

welcome to Orange County, Calif.
it's as bad as Jan Crouch (who's within 12 mi. from my home--the friend of one of my teachers says she doesn't take off the makeup to go shopping and makes Helmsley look like a Girl Scout)

[Missy Vixen]

32. I've met Jan Crouch

>it's as bad as Jan Crouch (who's within 12 mi. from my home--the friend of one of my teachers says she doesn't take off the makeup to go shopping and makes Helmsley look like a Girl Scout)<

Jan Crouch was appearing at the fundytastic convention I went to fifteen years ago in New Orleans. It was also the last appearance of Jimmy Swaggart. (It seems he found himself in a bit of trouble a couple of months later...) Mrs. Crouch was wearing the biggest diamond ring I have ever seen in my life. I'm not kidding. It was emerald cut and the stone went from knuckle to knuckle. (Fine jewelry is one of my hobbies. I tried on a canary diamond ring at a nationally known jeweler five years ago that cost more than the total amount of our mortgage, and Jan's ring was bigger.)

Jan's hair was pink in those days. She made Tammy Faye Bakker look like a rookie in the makeup department. I have to say, though, that Jan was very kind and polite to me.

Did I mention that Jan's daughter in law was with her as well? When I exclaimed over the huge diamond ring, Jan promptly dragged her daughter in law over to meet with the "sweet little girl who loves jewelry as much as we do, honey". The daughter in law's ring was almost as big.

It seems that fleecing the faithful is pretty damn profitable. I still can't believe that the two of them were wearing what must have been upwards of a quarter of a million dollars' worth of diamonds in broad daylight, let alone in New Orleans.

Julie

[NJCher]

8. I came from a "mainstream religion"

But one minister we had seemed to get off on "lust of the flesh" sermons.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands. I was the church organist at the ripe old age of 11 and whenever he would start with the lust of the flesh stuff I'd play an "Amen." The congregation would sing along with the liturgy and then I'd take them through the rest of the service.

In no time at all, church would be over and everyone would be filing out. The parishioners seemed to enjoy the new 5-10" sermons, the ones which I arbitrarily ended.

Ole "lust of the flesh" would give me blistering looks but there wasn't a thing he could do.


Cher

[Lars39]

11. That is hilarious!!!!

:D

[absyntheNsugar]

13. If only they used organs

Nope, these bastards would sing these horrible songs in worship (thankfully I've deleted most of them from my mind...) with a guitar and/or bass. Most of them involved some kind of participation, clapping, etc. Very cultish - in fact Fundamentalism IS a cult. Probably the worst kind because it's considered acceptable in this country.

[NJCher]

9. I loved Candide

Those bastards!


Cher

[BlackVelvetElvis]

10. It's because Voltaire wished for religious tolerance.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. The horror was meeting my future husband

at age 14. Do you know how hard it is to keep your legs crossed for 7 years? And do you know how awful it feels when you give into the temptation of uncrossing them against your better judgment? (Let's face it, dry spells suck, but Hell is forever.)

Hubby and I brought a lot of shame and guilt into our marriage bed with us. Took us years to work that out. :(

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[absyntheNsugar]

20. "Recovering Evangelical" as my brother likes to say

nt

[pansypoo53219]

15. luckily i came from the most liberal lutheran sect

or just above it, and went to public school til middle school. so by the time i hit those parochial schools, i was already set in my ways.
i missed having black friends. it was soooo white bread.

[TheMightyFavog]

17. ELCA?

End of Line.

[absyntheNsugar]

16. One other story I might add...

Back then I wrote a lot. Journals, short stories, etc. At one point during recess I was sitting at a table writing one of my stories. The teachers knew I wrote a lot and the teacher asked to see what I was writing. I showed him and as he read it, you could see he looked displeased. He then tore the manuscript up on the spot and told me I should "Thank" him for not reporting me.

My sin? The story had one or two swear words.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. You ever seen the Landover Baptist parody site?

My hubby doesn't like it; too blasphemous for his tastes.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

[absyntheNsugar]

19. Yep Betty Bowers is hilarious

but what bothers me about that site is that they will do something that they think is completely satirical...but then a couple days later it will happen in real life. In short, its a bit scary in how close they are to the way those vile people actually think.

And I don't like those memories.

[Lars39]

21. Support forum for people recovering from fundamentalism:

Walk Away from Fundamentalism:

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=319472

Helped alot.

[Ladyhawk]

24. Hehe. I got banned from that board...

...ah, the memories! :)

I was a bad girl, but hopefully my actions saved someone from having to go through what I went through at Walk-Away. I hope I played some small part in driving away the board sociopath. Note to self: trust no one.

Hi Lars! :headbang:

Anyway, I grew up in a fundy school with fundy parents in a fundy community. I don't think I'll ever be quite right. It was quite a mind-fuck and I'm half nuts.

Do you really want details? I can dig up an old post...ah, here we go:

*******************

I grew up in a fundaMENTAList Christian family. We started out as Southern Baptists. For a time we even lived on church property and took care of the grounds. From an early age I wanted to do the right thing and please God. I accepted Christ as my personal savior at age five and was baptized at age six even though I was terrified of water. I was convinced that Jesus wanted me to face this fear for him. I was ashamed of the fear and wanted to show him I was a good little Christian girl.

In the meantime, my father took the phrase "spare the rod, spoil the child" to heart. When my mom wasn't around, he "disciplined" my brother and me by hitting us with a belt. I never knew what was going to set him off. The beating I remember most vividly happened when I was in the fourth grade. I was sitting on the couch with my cousin Kim, watching a Tarzan movie. I made the mistake of commenting, "Gee, Tarzan has a nice bod." My father took me in the back room and beat me. I was told the word "bod" was bad. This sent the message that sex was bad. I've told my mother about my father's behavior many times, but her reaction seems to change with the times. Once she told me that if she had known he was doing that, she would have left him (I seriously doubt that). Most of the time, she tells me it "wasn't that bad" and that I haven't had a bad life. She also asserts to this day that my father was "a good man." Yet since his death she has seemed happier, as if a great weight was lifted off her shoulders (which it was). Regardless of how bad it was or wasn't, I ended up hating my father with a passion that could never be fully quenched by the love of Christianity no matter how hard I tried.

My father was controlling. When he came home from work, he would feel the TV to see if it was hot and if it was, we'd get it. I can remember switching off the TV in a panic, fleeing to my room and hiding many, many times. When my father was home, I spent most of my time in my room. As I got older and wanted independence, he started following me around. I was rarely allowed to go anywhere by myself. When I did go places, he would follow me. I'd find him in the most incongruous places, shadowing me on the road, in the library, in stores. He would follow me on walks and try to catch me listening to non-Christian music. Even when I came home from college, the incessant stalking continued.

During my Freshman year in high school, our class--yes, I went to a fundy school from second grade on--attended the Bill Gothard seminar. During our stay at a church, we were attacked by a demon--or so we thought at the time. Now I think it was a case of simple hysteria. At that seminar, I vowed to erase or throw away all my rock music and submit myself thoroughly to God and my father. What a huge mistake. Thanks a lot, Bill Gothard.

Thanks to Gothard's poisonous teachings, I never went through a normal rebellious period. As a result, my social development was arrested at around age fourteen. In a lot of ways, I'm still there.

For the next few years I was content in my chains, but it couldn't last, of course. Despite the indoctrination from church, school, family and community, I couldn't ignore the huge inconsistencies and cruelties of God and the Bible. I just stuffed it down deep and tried not to think.

During the time we lived on the property of the Southern Baptist Church something else happened that had a profound effect on me. A member of the church--the first black man I'd ever seen--sexually molested me over the course of several weeks until my mom wrung the story out of me. Although I wasn't told the whole story at the time, I found out later that the church took the side of the molester. My family moved and we didn't go to church much after that, but the tenets of fundaMENTALism were still enforced at home and school.

The whole thing started to come unraveled when I attended a Mennonite Brethren college in Fresno with my friends since grade school. I had my first real boyfriend at the age of 18. He was 21. When he kissed me, I found myself back in the halls of the church and annex being groped by the molester. It confused me. If God loved me, wouldn't that all be in the past? I started having flashbacks. The day before this guy broke up, he came to my dorm room and smothered me with kisses. I felt used. When he broke up with me the following day, I felt betrayed. Since that time I've questioned whether or not my feelings were real. Christianity does that to you. If it can't be rationalized with the "Word" then it's not true. I was in pain. That could not be rationalized with my ideas that Christians were never unhappy.

I was in utter misery for months afterward. During my sophomore year, I finally went to my friends. They responded by trying to throw a demon out of me. Then the ringleader, a girl named Jana, told me not to bother her anymore until I could trust Jesus enough to heal me. I didn't know it then, but this was to be the beginning of a long, horrible nightmare. My friends--the friends I would have given my life for, the friends I had known since I was just a little kid, the friends I had claimed were the most loyal friends ever--abandoned me as soon as there was a problem.

God, I was miserable. At night I would walk around the campus in tears. I would cry out to God to help me. I would sob. I would beg. I would plead. The pain never went away. I approached our choir director, a man who was also having a "spiritual crisis" and he was supportive for many years. Unfortunately, his decision to return to the "fold" changed him. He was no longer as caring or supportive once he decided to commit his life to Christ again. That should say something right there. He had promised me he would never abandon me and well, turns out he was a liar. Interesting how Christians are the first to abandon you when things go awry. It's also interesting how they tell you to look to God, not to man, if you want to see what Christianity is all about. I guess that excuses my old choir director. Who excuses God for all his crimes?

The final straw came right after I graduated as valedictorian of my college class. For years I had been wandering in the night, crying out to God to help me. After committing my entire life to him, the only thing I'd gotten out of it was betrayal and pain. I hadn't been on speaking terms with God for a couple of years when my sister-in-law went into labor with her first child.

What causes premonitions? Somehow I knew that things wouldn't go well. I sat in the waiting room, reading Far Side comics and back issues of Reader's Digest. One story was about a child that had died and I burst into tears, knowing in my heart that things weren't going to go work out for my niece.

Code Blue, Room 202.

Again I begged God, pleaded with him to save my niece. I even threatened him. I told him if he didn't help her, I would never, ever speak to him again. I'm sure you've guessed that the baby died. I'm sure you've also guessed that was the last time I ever spoke to biblegod.

I started another descent into depression, this one even deeper than before. I knew in my heart there was no god...and I am not a fool. I was the smartest kid in every class I ever took and it seemed to me that others were the fools because they refused to look at facts. I don't know how I did this with no support. I don't know how I'm doing it now. I guess the analytical part of my mind can't bend facts to fit into fundaMENTALism any longer.

About a year ago--I'm almost 34--I sank to my lowest point ever. After the death of my father and another break-up with a guy, I started sleeping with a .357 magnum and seriously considered using it on myself. I've slit my wrist--not seriously--and have hurt myself in countless other ways: staplers, razors, keys. I could never punish myself enough. My father wasn't punishing me any more and neither was biblegod. Someone had to do it and that was me.

I had post-traumatic stress disorder, horribly deep depression and OCD. Drugs weren't helping. Prayers never had helped, not even when my mother embarrassed me to no end by having two preacher friends come over and lay hands on me. (It brought back shades of my history teacher. I'd told him I was depressed and he told everyone in the class, then proceeded to tell me why Christians shouldn't get depressed.) Finally, a little over a year ago, I had electro-convulsive therapy, also known as ECT, or shock treatments. It helped to break the cycle of depression and I'm doing much better.

I'm still not completely free. I've never been able to have a normal relationship with a man. Yes, I'm a virgin. Nor have I been able to live my own life. Because of my problems, both physical and emotional, I live with my mother and still have to hear her fundaMENTAL ideas constantly. My dream for myself is to get out of this house and out of this community. It's a small, inbred community of mostly fundies and everyone remembers me as that smart, weird kid who subsequently fucked up her life.

I'm terrified of:

1. Ending up a slave to a job like my parents were.
2. Not ever finding support for my lifestyle.
3. Not ever leading a life completely free from the fear of hell...I still go crazy when my mom disappears from sight, thinking the rapture has happened and I've been left behind.
4. Not ever having my own life, free from depression, PTSD, OCD and fundaMENTAL Christianity.

Respectfully Submitted,

Ladyhawk

*************

Addendum: Loss of Belief in Biblegod Followed by Loss of Belief in Any Form of Spirituality (Date of Incident: May of 2001)

I've been a walk-away for about thirteen years, but until this year I fervently hoped something greater than myself would reveal itself to me. Only recently have I decided any form of spirituality is wishful thinking. The events on 9-11-01 were the final blow, but interestingly enough, the death of a snake also played an important role. Read these stories posted on another forum and mourn for my spirituality.

Ladyhawk finally had to grow up.

I had a kind of interesting experience yesterday. I was driving home from my creative writing class when I saw what looked like a stick in the road. I'm very tuned in to wildlife, so I immediately thought "snake." I slowed down and stopped. It was a snake and it was in a very bad location on the road.

There was a lady behind me and when I got out of my car, she started screaming at me: "What are you doing? What the hell are you doing?"

I reached down and in true Crocodile Hunter form, grabbed the 3-foot-long gopher snake by the tail. I hurried back to my car, noticing that I'd created a minor traffic jam.

I held the snake up so the lady could see it. "It's a snake!" I shouted. "I didn't want him to get squished on the road."

Her eyes got really big. She looked interested so I took the snake over for her to see. "Geez, you're brave," she said. "Will it bite you?"

I told her it didn't matter if it did because it was a non-venomous species. Actually it was quite calm, only rattling its tail for a few seconds and threatening me with a couple of hisses.

Interestingly enough, I had my "Crocodile Hunter" T-shirt on. The lady got a huge kick out of that.

I ended up driving home with the snake wrapped around my wrist. I'll probably end up releasing it in a safe spot this weekend after I show it to my nephew.

-------------

If you're squeamish, don't read this post.

I had a rough experience today. As you may have figured out from some of my posts, I'm a real animal lover. I even love snakes. Remember that gopher snake I saved last week? Well, today I decided to drive him way out into the country where he would be safe from cars and people and could hopefully have a good shot at life.

As I was driving, I started feeling spiritual. I don't want to talk about religion much because that topic seems to push people's buttons. Look at all the wars that take place because both sides adamantly believe theirs is the only true religion. Anyway, to make a long story short, I was thinking that as I released the snake, I would say something like this: "God, if you exist, look down here and see that I care about this snake. Watch over it. Protect it. And watch over me, too."

As I thought this, the old negative feelings crept in. I thought--for the millionth time--that if there is a God, he hates my guts (it's a long story).

Then I thought about a story my brother told me. After some grade school kids helped finance a sea lion's recovery, they went on a boat to release it. It had been convalescing for months and thousands of dollars had been spent on its rehabilitation. As the sea lion was released, the children cheered--then shrieked--as a huge orca surged from the depths to eat their pinniped friend. My brother thinks this is a funny story. I don't.

I thought, Wouldn't it be ironic if I ran over a snake on my journey to release this one?

I'm sure you've already guessed what happened. I went around a bend and ran over a large gopher snake right in the middle of the road. There was no missing him. I stopped the car, opened the door and looked back. A tire-width section on the snake's body had been flattened. Scarlet innards were spilling out of the flattened section. The force of the tires had expelled the snake's intestines out its cloaca, but dammit, it was still alive!

It tried to get away and was actually making progress toward the side of the road. For a moment I thought about finding it a vet, but the snake was doomed. Parts of its innards had stuck to the road and peeled off when it tried to crawl away. There was only one thing I could do. I turned the other snake loose, then lined up the mortally wounded snake so I could run over him and finish the job, put him out of his misery.

Damn, why was it so easy when I wasn't trying and so hard when I was? I backed up and rolled forward about fifteen times before I finally I hit the right spot and the snake stopped moving. I got out of the car and saw that more of the snake's innards had squirted out, including its heart, which--can you believe it?--was still beating. I took a twig and squished the heart, then threw the unfortunate snake off the road. I don't know how many times I told it I was sorry.

I drove from that remote canyon to Jack in the Box, of all places. The girl running the drive-through window noticed I was crying. What was I supposed to tell her? That I was crying over a dead snake? A lot of people wouldn't understand that.

I guess I was crying over the dead snake and the strange sense that someone in a position of celestial power is out to get me. I waxed spiritual for the first time in months and immediately got the message that the universe really is a cold and uncaring place.

[absyntheNsugar]

28. Hey! I remember you from the Walk Away board!

Damn...your story(s) brought tears to my eyes. That's one of the reasons I stopped going to WalkAway...too many stories make me lose any faith in humanity that I might have previously had.

And thats one of the things I (think I) would like to fix...my hatred of fundies. It can't be good can it? But I would so love to see them burn...

[Ladyhawk]

31. I've tried hard to let it all go.

REALLY hard.

For some reason, Return of the King reduced me to a quivering mass of tears and I showed up at my mother's house in the middle of the night in a frightful state. (Yeah, I understand why it happened, but when I try to explain it to other people, they just laugh at me.)

Anyway, I had a good cry and my mother and I patched things up quite a bit. I told myself I would forgive any transgressions, real or imagined, on a daily basis. I've been trying to tell myself that fundamentalism is an addiction or disease and that these people can't help themselves.

But you know what? The shit just hit the fan again. I've been having massive mood swings (possibly brought on by raging diabetes) and the other morning the phone rang. I thought to myself, "If this is anyone but Tim, I'm going to have a meltdown." (Tim is my counselor.)

Well, my mother had given my number to one of her fundy friends, who--remembering my vocal gift--invited me to a fundy sing-along. She mentioned all the instrumentalists and which churches they went to. I was acting interested so I could let her down easy, thinking that I would have to ask my mother not to be so free with my phone number. Then she launched into praise of Mel Gibson's Passion, saying, "It makes you realize just what our Lord Jesus did for us on the cross." I felt like explaining to her that he wasn't my "Lord Jesus" anymore and that I quite preferred Return of the King to Passion any day of the week. I have no desire to see that piece-of-crap movie. None. Zilch.

I really hate it when people assume I'm (still) a fundy. To me, being a fundy means you 1) can't think for yourself, 2) you put too much trust in Christian authority figures like Constantine, Hitler and Shrub*, 3) are gullible as hell, 4) are bigoted as hell, 5) can't allow your human compassion to embrace anyone because you believe in the doctrine of Original Sin. I could go on and on, but I'll spare you. Usually, I set the record straight right away. I hate being lumped with fundies. *shudder*

Right, wrong or indifferent, I sent off an e-mail asking my mother not to give out my number. She reacted...quite stringently. Things are not good between us. It's just SO HARD to connect with her. She's SO right-wing and SO fundy. I've changed so much and she's still the same bigoted person she's always been. It literally breaks my heart.

So, everything's fucked again.

Being angry doesn't do any good, but neither does just taking it. I don't know what the answer is. My mother does not respect the boundaries I set and neither do my fundy friends. Even when I've expressly told them, "Do not attempt to proselytize me or I'll go postal on your ass!" they can't resist trying.

Fundies. Can't live with them...can't chop them into tiny pieces and bury them in the back yard.

[Ladyhawk]

35. By the way, I finally banished my fear of hell.

The feeling part of me is finally catching up with the thinking part. I've become quite suspicious of things people want to believe in: god, bigfoot, space aliens, the afterlife, etc. If you want to believe in something, it's a good reason to rev up your skepticism and pay attention to your bullshit meter.

There is no evidence of life after death. When I die, I will simply cease to exist. For awhile, I really panicked at this thought. I was taught to believe in an eternal afterlife and a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ." It's quite an arrogant, earth- and self-centered belief system when you think about it.

When I look into space and think of all the galaxies and stars and worlds spinning away from the center of the universe, I think of chaos. We really are just an accident of nature. Instead of looking to a god for meaning, we have to make our own meaning. That's a daunting job. After having been promised pie-in-the-sky by-and-by, it's especially daunting.

[Solomon]

41. Ladyhawk I hear ya loud and clear. I'm a recovering christian addict

as well. You can do a lot to heal yourself if you study religions comparatively. Especially the history of religions. It's what I've done for years now. It will give you a satisfying perspective on life if you can see above the belief systems.

Recently my studies led me to get into astronomy and you won't believe the satisfaction of learning the night sky. I bought a nice telescope, and I have a wonderful time studying the heavens.

It's still a great mystery, Ladyhawk, whatever else you can say. I don't know if I'll ceast to exist when I die, I don't know what will happen, thus, I don't really give it any thought. Anxiety of humans comes from the fact that we are the only things that have to contemplate death. That is, we know that we will die, unlike all other living creatures on the planet. Having to think about it, causes a lot of neurosis.

Read about some of the other religions to get out of the straight jacket of christianity. You might find that life is just the opposite of what we've been taught. That is, humans did not fall from divinity, we are ascending TO divinity. Changes everything doesn't it?

:hug:

[Ladyhawk]

44. I wish!

My own observations of humanity (even my own humanity) have left me feeling less than optimistic. :(

I think the philosopher William James wrote a book on comparative religions. Is that the right guy?

[Ladyhawk]

27. Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

I love Landover Baptist and Betty Bowers. :)

[EV1Ltimm]

25. i got choked-out for being an atheist when i was 10.

does that count?

[Ladyhawk]

34. Were your parents freethinkers?

Or did you figure it out for yourself at an early age?

[EV1Ltimm]

36. well, my grandmother and mother were freethinkers.

They're the ones responsible for raising me.

This was north texas in 1990. Some kids i knew asked if i believed in god, which of course i responded 'No'. It quickly spread around the school that i didn't believe in god or i worshipped satan etc etc.

Most of the school bullies stuck with sucker-punching me in the stomach, but one decided to call me an "Atheist queer" and put me in a headlock until i briefly lost conciousness.

But looking back, they were just kids. If anything, they only succeeded at strengthening my convictions. :)

[Ladyhawk]

26. You should read Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell

It is an excellent book about the fallout experienced by people leaving fundamentalist Christianity. I keep telling myself I need to actually do the exercises outlined in the book, but part of me thinks the idea of an "inner child" is just plain silly.

Regardless, the information is spot-on, very validating.

[Blue_Tires]

30. was in catholic high school in 1991

and for sex-ed class the teacher acutally showed a videotaped abortion, which was filmed with the most horrifying graphic detail

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. I'm a mainstream liberal Christian, but

I know a couple who started out as fundamentalists and eventually started improvising their own religion based loosely on a combination of fundamentalism and misunderstood Russian Orthodoxy.

The three children are now between 12 and 5, and they have been homeschooled all their lives. However, when I last saw them, two years ago, the 10-year-old was only doing second grade work, and she's NOT retarded. It's just that Mom never gets around tutoring.

They've taken to dressing the kids weird, too. When I last saw them, I thought that maybe the family had turned Amish or Hutterite, because the two girls were wearing long dresses with aprons and headscarves, and the boy was wearing overalls. Nope, it's just their own weird religion.

I also know a hardcoare fundie family whose early teen son seems definitely gay to me. I don't like to think about what that kid is going to go through in the next few years, if he hasn't already.

[ChoralScholar]

37. In my Sr. High Choir class

part of our uniform for performance is Black slacks, black socks and shoes for the men, and Black skirt(or skort), Black hose and Black shoes for the girls with our choir robes worn over it.(not my choice, I inherited this BTW - I intend to change it)

I have one little girl whose parents won't let her wear a skirt because, and I quote, "I don't want my daughter raped in a public place." and "I just wasn't raised that way."

There are plenty of evangelicals who are against pants (united pentecostal in particular) but this is the first time I've heard of being anti-skirt or dress

Are these parents just certifiable nutbars, or have I just never heard of this?

ON EDIT: This is a public high school in semi-rural Arkansas

[midnight armadillo]

38. wow

I actualy had sex ed at our Catholic Church in 5th grade. No mention of birth control other than abstinence, but it was all medically and scientifically accurate. After reading some of these stories, I'm grateful to have grown up as an easter/xmas only catholic in a liberal church...even though life events and a lot of science ed have left me a staunch agnostic.

[truthspeaker]

39. I once met a Catholic-educated guy who hadn't heard of pre-ejaculate

At age 19 he thought early withdrawal was a 100% effective method of birth control. But the other areas of his education were top-notch.

[midnight armadillo]

40. We covered that

Seriously, this was a comprehensive sex ed class. Ok, minus masturbation and orgasms, but it WAS catholic ;-)

[MountainLaurel]

42. A Poetic Interlude

A little background. Attended a fundie baptist church from around age 8 until 20, but my parents never actually went to church with me, so no pressure on the home front. Though it was a strong part of the local culture. But, I have a natural guilt complex and problem with anxiety; that plus weekly talk of the impending Rapture did not make a good combination. I was in fear of eternal hellfire. By the time I was 12 I was having panic attacks about being left behind. (There ya go: Take advantage of any child's worst fear as a marketing tool. Surprised there aren't even more Eric Rudolphs and Andrea Yates out there.

Now this is something I wrote a couple years ago, when I was beginning to explore earth-based religions. It reflect how betrayed I felt at all the misinformation and noninformation I'd gotten over the years.

So, without further to-do. . .

What’s this? A female god?
Not just a fertility goddess, or daughter of Zeus,
But a real, live Queen of heaven, the underworld,
And everything in between?
You mean men and women
All once worshipped a woman?
For eons upon eons? That just can’t be.
Surely I would have heard before now of this Inanna
And the other Queens of heaven who preceded and followed.
For heaven’s sake, I grew up in the county public library.
Went through their entire kids’ collection on the Mediterranean,
For my future career as the underwater Indiana Jones,
And the finder of Atlantis.
But I didn’t see anything in those stacks.
Not even about the Great Goddess of Crete.
Nor did I hear a word about such ancient dieties
In Mrs. Watson’s world cultures class.
She’d traveled the world,
And would have known about these things.
Why didn’t they tell us in Sunday School
About the FEMALES worshipped in the Holy Land
Before Noah and Abraham?
Or about the ancient tales of Cybele
And her son who died on a tree for his people?
(Hmmm. That one sounds familiar.)
Nope, all we good Fundamentalist, Independent Baptist girls got
Were the idol-worshippers bowing before Baal.
And reminders not to raise ourselves before men when we grew up.
How it would have helped
To see the divine in my pudgy belly,
Designed to protect the sacred organs and potential resident within.
Or to know that I could stand up to my father,
Because you don’t have to respect people who don’t respect you.
And that who should be in charge has nothing to do with anatomy.
When I was afraid of talking about sex, my body,
And the boys' taunts about my nipples in science class,
How it would have helped to hear about
That ancient Sumerian who
“Rejoiced at her wondrous vulva” and applauded herself.
Hell, I didn’t know that the clitoris even existed until I was in college.
But NOW I know about my beautiful body,
Its curves and miraculous processes.
About the power I hold within my muscles and my mind.

[Az]

43. My highschool realization

That I did not quite see things the same way as other students became known to me in advanced Chem. We came into class one day to find all the chairs arrainged in a large circle. Kids from the other Chem class were in our class room as well. We were instructed to take a seat in the circle. It was then that some of us noticed the words "Origin of Life" on the chalk board.

The teachers had decided to handle this tricky subject by letting the kids more or less discuss the matter in a round robin fashion. Nothing says truth like peer pressure. I seemed to be one of the few in the class that spoke up for evolution and natural processes being responsible for life. Most kids prefered to stay univolved in the conversation.

I then found out later that some other kids had different ideas of how to convince people of the truth rather than open discussion. I found a note tucked in my Chem book the next day that read, "God is real. Believe or else." As I had mentioned this was HighSchool so they obviously had not been exposed to marketting 101 as yet.