It's too bad that The Dark Knight will only BARELY get a best picture nod.

[Writer]

If at all.

I saw Slumdog and I thought it wasn't nearly as good as Doubt. And Doubt was the movie that, in my opinion, came anywhere near the quality of The Dark Knight.

The problem with the Dark Knight is that it made a lot of money, which is fodder for the cynical culture barons who like to chew up anything that has a hint of popularity.

Oh well.

I'm hoping for a surprise.

[sasquatch]

1. Hopefully the Dark Knight will be the exception to that role

[cemaphonic]

2. Being a moneymaker is hardly a barrier to an Oscar.

Other awards, yeah snooty highbrow arthouse stuff does better than blockbusters, but if you look at the last 40 years or so on this list, most of them were either huge box office successes or at least smaller sleeper hits. The Academy Awards are voted on by industry people, rather than a critical apparatus - Movies that are successful impact their livelihoods directly, so they are more than happy to give them awards.

The last 4 years have been mostly smaller, critically acclaimed movies, but 3 of the 4 have gone to veteran directors with a large critical *and* popular following. But stuff like LOTR, Titanic, Braveheart ant the like - those movies all made serious money.


Now, being a comic-book action movie - that is a more difficult hurdle, but I wouldn't have figured that LOTR would have won either, even if it made twice the money it did.

[Hanse]

3. I saw Dark Knight and thought it was terrible.

I haven't even seen Slumdog Millionaire and I'd rather see it get a nomination.

[LSdemocrat]

4. I didn't think Dark Knight was anything special

The movie takes it self so seriously yet, at the same time, the characters are just so absurd that I can't really enjoy it on a fun action movie level nor can I enjoy it as a serious movie.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. I thought it was a complete waste of time, as well.

Technically excellent.

Boring, pointless, full of violence and people threatening other people, or killing them.

Quite depressing. I'm sorry I bothered.

Now, if Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine could have had leading parts, and Heath Ledger's psychological insight could have been put to a more positive use......

[Orrex]

5. The best thing about Dark Knight IMO

Is that Heath Ledger played the Joker as fans wanted the Joker to be played in 1989. Instead we got what we got. :puke:


I liked the current film just fine, but outside of Ledger's performance, I'm not sure that it's Oscar-worthy.

[Hanse]

6. I liked Nicholson's Joker better.

I like Romero's Joker better too.

They both actually told jokes. Ledger's just did the pencil trick, then that was it.

[Writer]

7. How old are you, out of curiosity? n/t

[Hanse]

10. 31.

Just old enough to be in Jr. high when the whole Tim Burton was a huge craze and if you wanted to be cool, you'd have the paraphenalia. And have M.C. Hammer and Vanilla Ice tapes.

Now I think the Burton version is crap, but I still respect the Nicholson performance.

If I were still an angst-ridden teen, I'd probably love The Dark Knight. Ledger's Joker is like the Emo Joker. Or something.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. I think you could make the case that Bale's Batman is the emo Batman

But I don't think Ledger's Joker is the emo Joker. Nicholson's Joker was a typical selfish villain whereas Ledger's joker was a sadistic madman. I think that the latter is more what Bob Kane intended.

[Hanse]

23. Oh Kane didn't even like Miller's take on his creation.

I don't think he'd like the latest movie at all.

[Orrex]

8. You're so totally wrong I can't even believe how wrong you are

Well, not really.

I've always preferred the Joker to be a sociopathic criminal in whiteface, with the "clown" aspect sort of an afterthought. Ledger's portrayal came closer to that IMO than Romero's or Nicholson's.

Incidentally, I recall that Romero wasn't comfortable with Nicholson's version, calling too evil (or the like). I wonder what Caesar might think of Ledger's performance...

[Hanse]

11. That's like having a Riddler who doesn't tell riddles.

A Catwoman who isn't a nubile seductress, a penguin who isn't short, squat and awkward, and a Batman who isn't dark and brooding.

I don't know where this Joker as dangerous psychopath comes from, except as an interpretation of Nicholson's work. And that aspect of Nicholson's character was over done.

[Orrex]

13. Moore and Miller wrote him that way in the 80's

Without Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One (both in 1986 IIRC), Burton's cheese-film likely wouldn't have gotten off of the ground.

Moore's The Killing Joke also greatly informed Ledger's portrayal.


In both cases the Joker was sociopath first, clown second. I don't think he told any jokes at all in The Dark Knight Returns and maybe one in The Killing Joke.


Of course, if you were into Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer at the time, maybe you missed out on all that cool stuff! :evilgrin:

[Hanse]

17. I appreciate the mood change in the comic industry during the 80's and 90's.

Round about the time "Spawn" was popular I figure it pretty much out wore it's welcome.

I can't even get myself excited about the Watchmen movie.

Although I'm hearing they're producing a Bone movie, and that's appealing to some aspect of my psyche, for some reason.

[cemaphonic]

18. The Joker was pretty scary in his earliest appearances.

Back when pulp was still pulpy. He got quite a bit darker in the 70s and early 80s, compared to Campy Joker, but yeah, Moore and Miller really set the tone for the character from that point on.

And yeah, he told a joke in "The Killing Joke." It probably kept Batman from strangling him. One of the best scenes in all of comic-book superherodom.

I too was in HS during Hammertime. It drove me to an appreciation of classical music and 60s and 70s rock. I did like Burton's Batman, although I agree that it hasn't really aged that well.

[Hanse]

19. Kevin Smith had the best critique of the Burton film.

He was on some talk show and savaging Burton's just awful version of Planet of the Apes, and how the Lincoln Memorial ending was the exact same ending from some comic book version of the film. Defending himself from a percieved accusation of plagiarism, Burton claimed, "I don't read comic books." To which Smith replied, "yeah, I know. I saw your version of Batman."

[JCMach1]

31. Burton's Batman is on my worst ever list...

[WCGreen]

15. The Joker in the Comic Book was more of a clown at that time...

In the 80's, he started getting more psychotic and then after the whole explosion of graphic novels, the Joker morphed into a completely amoral villain who made it impossible to tell if he was evil or sick...

[EastTennesseeDem]

9. There's no way of knowing

You have to remember that the Oscars are voted on by thousands of people in the profession itself. This is in comparison to almost all the others, which are selected by a panel. This bodes well for the Dark Knight (and Wall-E), IMHO.

We can at least be assured that it'll win Best Supporting Actor.

[Kat45]

12. I hope it wasn't the best picture of the year.

I found it boring. I didn't see that many movies last year, but I liked Wall-E a lot more than The Dark Knight.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

14. It should win, imo.

It and Iron Man were the best movies I saw all year.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. As much as I enjoyed Iron Man, it's not really oscar worthy

There are two types of good movies in my opinion. Movies that make you think and movies that you have fun watching. Iron Man was the latter. I had more fun watching that movie than anything I'd seen probably since X-Men 2. But while the story was extremely compelling, it wasn't a particularly thought provoking movie and it also didn't take itself too seriously (part of the reason it was so much fun to watch).

The Dark Knight, on the other hand, was not fun to watch. Sure it had its moments with the action sequences and a few funny bits but it was almost three hours long and for the most part very difficult to follow. But it was, without a doubt, thought provoking which means it is worthy of critical acclaim. Maybe it isn't best picture, but to be honest I haven't seen any of the other films that might be considered.

[coyotespaw]

16. The problem with The Dark Knight getting a serious Oscar nod

is that the best actor in the movie was overshadowed by the idiot that didn't know when to say when.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. I personally thought that Gary Oldman gave the best performance in that movie

Superhero movies tend to have very one dimensional supporting characters only delving deeper into the hero himself. Oldman's Commissioner Gordon was an exception to this rule and honestly I think his performance was above and beyond any of the others. That said I thought that Aaron Eckhardt, Michael Kane, and Morgan Freeman were outstanding in their roles as well.

[Hanse]

25. Yeah, Oldman was great in both films.

That bit in the second film where he was "killed" was just plain stupid. Especially since they so heavily promoted the film using scenes with Oldman in later parts of the film.

But that's hardly Oldman's fault.

[Radical Activist]

20. Like the people who based Obama in the primary

because he had media coverage, popularity and money. I remember the threads claiming Obama MUST be a DLC tool of corporations because he managed to get on TV and raise money. Yes, the cynics sometimes know how to ruin a good thing.

[Beaverhausen]

21. I pretty much agree with you.

I hope DK at least gets a best pic nomination. I saw Slumdog yesterday and while I thought it was great, DK was just as good. I also saw Doubt and Gran Torino. They are all really great films and DK stands up with them all.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. I honestly liked Batman Begins better

The reason is that Batman Begins actually developed Bruce Wayne's character whereas The Dark Knight simply let that character loose on a two and a half hour high speed chase.

The Dark Knight was more about The Joker than it was about Batman. And while that would be fine, they spent the entire movie developing a character that likely won't be of great significance in the next movie. They capture him at the end and his protege Two Face is also gone. Perhaps they had intended for The Joker to escape from prison before Ledger died, but that seems like kind of a lame typical plot-line.

Additionally there was far too much discontinuity in the sequel from the first one. You don't even need to really see Batman Begins to understand The Dark Knight and that bugs me as well. The only real connection is that in both films Batman fights a villain who believes that the world must burn. But even then, when he was trying to analyze The Joker's thinking with Alfred, he didn't even bother to think back to Ras Al-Ghul and his motives to see if that might help him understand The Joker. In order for the series to truly resolve itself, Batman needs to actually prove Ras Al-Ghul and The Joker wrong in the third film and acknowledge that he has done so. But if the discontinuity in The Dark Knight is any indicator, The Joker and Ras Al-Ghul are names that we will never hear again.

[JCMach1]

30. Exactly, a better all-around movie

[JCMach1]

29. IT's opinion, but the only thing I liked about Dark Knight was Heath Ledger

Story, acting, effects were all very ordinary to snooze (in the case of the story)...

Heath made it worth watching, but barely.

[MrSlayer]

32. I still haven't seen it.

It will be on HBO soon enough.