Driving under the influence

[holeinboatoutatsea]

everyone would agree that it is not only stupid, but criminal, because of the potential for disaster.

My question.

Is it just a method for the county or city police to get more money? They charge a fortune for DUI's. People's lives are ruined - jobs lost, etc.

I know it is a bad thing to drive after drinking, and would never do it, but.....

Is this just an easy way for the locals to raise thousands of dollars? To keep raising the legal limit is what gives me a clue.

[lcordero]

1. I think that it is more than justified and should be made even

more punitive. Hell, if a person gets behind the wheel after drinking they should be charged with attempted murder.

[ChoralScholar]

2. for a person who drinks and drives

the possible alternatives to a DUI are much worse.

If you think a DUI ruins your life, try hitting and killing an innocent person. You just ENDED someone's life, and changed the lives of everyone around them. All because you didn't think far enough ahead to get a way home.

So, in a word, if a police officer can put an immediate end to a potentially lethal situation, and the penalties are bad enough to make someone ELSE think twice before THEY do it, then yes, it is entirely justified.

There is no excuse. Ever.

Around here, people drive badly enough when they're sober.

[KissMyAsscroft]

3. They have gone off the deep end with DUIs

My ex got charged with a DUI after blowing a .06 which is under the legal limit.

I got a DUI when I blew a .08 and I had 2 beers. I was completely sober and was pulled over for honking my horn at a driver to move.

It cost me 10,000 dollars and I lost my job, almost got kicked out of my house I was living at at the time, and was suicidal.

They've gone off the deep end prosecuting drunk drivers because no one will stand up and say "people's lives are being ruined who are mostly poor"

There are going to be DUI's but that usually involves people who are completely drunk out of their mind and with other problems to boot.

It's easy to say "lock em up and throw away the key" until you get popped with one for doing nothing and your life is ruined. I dont know what I would have done if I had children or a mortgage at the time...I would be homeless right now.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

4. "people's lives are being ruined who are mostly poor"

that's what I was thinking. The only time you hear about a locally "famous" person being pulled over for this is when they kill someone. Most of the time it is poor, or just regular average people who have had a couple of drinks with friends, are on the way home, and endangered no one, who get pulled over and turned into criminals.

I have a friend that was arrested in her driveway. She had driven home from a party, a cop followed her, she did nothing wrong, but she was given the infamous tests, and handcuffed, taken to jail. That is wrong.

I believe there are two reasons for making the drunk driving laws more strict.

1) get the dumb drunk bastards off the road

2) raise money for the county

[ChoralScholar]

9. its easy to say we don't endanger anyone

I also would like to think I know myself well enough that I could have a beer or two and be just as good to drive as if I were sober.

Problem is, that's very presumptuous. One of the side effects of the alcohol is, that even in small doses, we don't always perceive how it affects us at the time.

Driving at all is enough of a liability. If I were to cause an accident that ended someones life, it would destroy me. It would be unbearable, however, if there were ANYTHING I could have done to have prevented it. Even if that couple of beers only amounted to 1/10th of a second in reaction time. Even if that couple of beers made me only a little less cautious about pulling onto a busy road;

I may not hurt anyone...but then again, it's possible. It's not a tradeoff I'm willing to make, just to prove I have a high tolerance for alcohol and can drive home safely. If I drink, someone sober drives or I walk.

You're welcome to act as you feel appropriate, but I'm not willing to take the chance.

Is it really THAT big a deal to get to drive yourself home when you've been drinking.

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. Darn right

If you really have to drink when you go out to eat, get a taxi.

If you live some place that doesn't have taxis, be an entrepreneur, and start a taxi service, or some other clever method of getting drunk people home.

I refuse to drive when I've been drinking, because I don't want the stress of "what if I hit someone or crash", and also because I know there are a lot of other irresponsible jerkoffs on the road who ARE driving drunk, and I want my reaction time to be at its maximum to defeat THEIR stupidity.

Maybe I'm just too responsible a citizen, but I have a high regard for safety, both my own, but also for other people.

[absyntheNsugar]

7. I agree!

Yes Drunk Driving is stupid, and yes there should be penalties.

But they have gone WAY overboard! .06 should not carry the same penalties as 1.0 should. Period!

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. If it were up to me, the first drunk driving offense would be

loss of license forever.

And that goes for stoned driving, LSD driving, or whatever.

Too many people on the road nowadays, too many people killed, too much potential for danger.

People need to decide whether they will drink or whether they will drive, and not do both.

I've been touched by way too many alcoholics, and way too many deaths from drunk drivers.

Nope, first offense, you never, ever drive again. Driving isn't a right, it's a privelege, and if you can't respect other people enough to drive unimpaired, then you shouldn't be driving.

One of the very few things I'm an absolutist about.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

6. I respect your opinion

but, have some questions about the ways the laws are applied.

[KissMyAsscroft]

8. Bush would love that law...

Because the law is applied in a discriminatory way and it makes one bad decision into a lifetime of crime and hopelessness.

DUI's should suck, and they should be enforced but they shouldn't take one bad afternoon and make you lose all hope and your entire future which just makes you want to give up on life and commit more crime.

I really wish there was a study done on what happened to poor people who get popped with these DUIs and lose everything. I personally know a few people that that had happened to, and they went on to say "fuck it" and commit crime because their lives were over.

I dont think people realize how impossible it is to pay a 10-15,000 dollar fine when you have your license taken away, your job lost, your rent due....its enough to make some people snap.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. Not to be insensitive, but one must always look at opportunity costs

and if the cost is too high, then one has to make a choice.

If one knows the cost of drunk driving is $10,000 (which I will say is OUT OF CONTROL HIGH), then one has to decide "Is this beer worth $10,000 and the ruination of my life?". If one thinks it is, then go for it, and play the game. But one better be goddamn ready to pay the pot of the game against ya.

It's pretty damn simple to me. Lots of times I'm really tempted to kill people, but a) I know it's immoral, and b) I know it's illegal and will put me in jail (unless you're a Bush, of course).

When I go out to dinner, and I'm driving, I might have a pre-dinner beer, but that's it - because I know the cost of getting caught drunk driving, and especially because I know the much higher cost in human life and tragedy of DRIVING WHEN ONE IS DRUNK.

But I will say, $10K for a drunk offense, if it's the first one, is really excessive. For a third offense, hell yeah. But my God, that's a lot.

And whether one is poor or not is irrelvant - it's not about "who can afford the fine" it's about "who's responsible enough to respect the law and respect other peple on the road".

[KissMyAsscroft]

12. Hey, I believe there should be laws against it..

But charging me 10,000 and taking my license which causes me to lose my job for drinking 2 Coor's Lights and drinving perfectly normal is fucking insane.

There isnt a counter balance to MADD, and while I agree with their pain they have gone too fucking far and its now just a way the police ruin the lives of poor people.

[ChoralScholar]

13. Rabrrrr is right

I mean, what are we talking about here? It's law. Break it, and you pay the penalty. If we don't like it, then that's what the democratic process is for. Use your vote, and the vote of others to effect change. If your representative won't support the change of the law, elect someone who will. But until then:

In the immortal words of Jim Carrey from 'Liar Liar':

"STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!"
http://www.members.tripod.com/SoundBytes1/liarliar/LLlaw.wav

Seriously, though I've got nothing but love for you guys. I would hate to see any DUers lives ruined for a couple beers, but it IS a tradeoff. We know the law, and we are obligated to abide by it until such time as we can get it changed.

[KissMyAsscroft]

16. There is no counter balance....

There is MADD and no one to counter balance that.

People die from drnking and driving...fine.

People die from breaking and entering, from snorting cocaine, from lots of other things...but the fines and punishment from these crimes which kill all kinds of people are not anywhere close to DUIs.

I went to a victim panel for my DUI where I had to watch people who were paralyzed talk about what they have to go through, and it was heartbreaking.

After that presentation I supported giving first time offenders the chair, but thats my point. How many of these presentations do politician's get from victim's of other forms of crime?

There is a balance and the laws are too drastic, when you consider that nearly every person reading this board has been in a situation where you have had 2 drinks and you could have lost everything.

My arguement is that people who dont have habitual problems with drinking and driving should not get the punishment I did.



*edited for spelling

[ChoralScholar]

26. But how do you write a law like that, brother?

Come up with something fair and enforceable, and I'll put my John Hancock on it.

I don't see how it could be done fairly, but then again, many people are more creative than I am.

I'm rooting for you here... What happened is awful, and I'd hate for it to happen to me.

But what are the logistics? How can we make a law like this work? More importantly, how can we make it fair and equitable, yet have no loopholes for those who can afford expensive lawyers?

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Thank you! Can't say "But if you put me in jail for killing that guy,

I'll lose my job!"

hell, we all know the penalties. And ignorance of the law has never, and should never, be an excuse.

Being a citizen has a plethora of responsibilities attached to it.

It's not a *@&*#^$ free ride, and I aim that at the reichwing AND the liberals.

If someone thinks that the lives of others are worth less than that person's "inalienable right" to have enough Buds at dinner way the hell out on Highway 51 that it impairs their driving, then let them pay.

As I said, it's opportunity costs.

if you think the beer is worth the loss of your money in the fine, possibly yhe job, and/or incarceration, then go ahead and drink and drive home. All the power to you for standing up for your beliefs. But don't be surprised if the community you are in has decided that's totally irresponsibile, and that if a cop detects you weaving or whatever, you get a huge-ass and possibly life-erupting surprise.

And on further thought of this tonight, I remember my father. After being nailed numerous for drunk driving (in the 80s, in Wisconsin, after WI *finally* started to be serious about drunk driving), Dad lost his license, except to drive to and from work ONLY, for a YEAR, and had to go to counseling for either 3 or 6 months, can't remember. After completion of that, and at the end of time that his license had been suspended, then he could drive again.

So, I'd say, against my initial assessment that one should lose one's license forever, let me adjust and say that, if one can successfully complete many months of therapy, one can have one's license reinstated. And if one then further fucks up, then one has to go into serious, full-time therapy (ala Betty Ford style).

[NJCher]

14. OK so how about this one

A friend of mine, a member of the "working poor" class, had a few beers and decided to sleep it off in his car. This was last December and it was cold, so he would occasionally turn on the engine for heat as he dozed. A cop stopped to see if he was OK and gave him the test and he failed. He got fined $400 but didn't lose his license. Of course his insurance will go up dramatically.

Here's a guy who tried to do the right thing but was fined for DUI. The law in that state says that if the keys are in the ignition and you're behind the wheel, even if you're not driving, you're guilty.

IMO, that one is very unfair.

Here's another one:

A friend of mine who is a distinguished looking white man was caught drag racing in Newark. Never mind that he is 55-years old and should know better. He was definitely tipsy and the cops knew it. It was a pair of cops; one white, one black. The black cop didn't want to let him go but the white cop managed to overrule him. So he got off, 100%


Cher

[KissMyAsscroft]

20. Yep....

If your keys are in the ignition they can charge you.

But when Bush cuts your police funding to cut taxes for the rich, you gotta pick up the slack somehow...

[Rabrrrrrr]

23. Keys in the ignition is BS

that's just way too far gone.

Should be applicable if one is actually driving.

Cripes.

[ChoralScholar]

25. I've gotta agree with that.

Symbolic laws like this do nothing to help actual situations. My key won't even come out of the ignition.

[ChoralScholar]

15. You people kill me.

Almost every single post sounds like:

I believe there should be stiff penalties for driving drunk. But not for me! I'm ok when I've been drinking! It's only a couple of beers! I want to be able to drink and drive without a penalty, because I'M not putting anyone in danger.

Geez... get a shred of self-responsiblity folks. Obey the law or pay the cost.

ON EDIT: Sorry about that, I got a little irritated. But I'll leave it. I said it, I gotta live with it.

[absyntheNsugar]

17. So are you saying .06 should be treated the same as 1.0?

Big difference in my opinion

[ChoralScholar]

21. people whose blood alcohol is 1.0% are not driving.

in fact they're not even living. Respiration stops at .5%.

But, I digress.

You guys are getting my opinions confused with my support of the law. I personally think that there should be varied penalties, yes. But I'm not talking about my opinion. I'm talking about what the law IS RIGHT NOW. I'm talking about not getting punished by our CURRENT LAWS.

I've made no commentary whatsoever about how I feel about the law. I'm just talking about following it and covering my own ass.

However, I'm perfectly willing to discuss how I think the whole program should be administered, but I figured that was a discussion for another day.

[KissMyAsscroft]

18. Well, I cant speak for everyone else...

But in my case it was the truth.

But Im sure you have never ever had one beer and drove in your life...:eyes:

In washington State you can get a DUI for a .02 and above. Most people think that it is a a.08 and above (because all of the fucking road signs say so!) but it is up to the OFFICERS DISCRETION whether to charge you with it if you blow a .02 and above. Most people dont know this...

Do you think that the officer is going to pull over the guy from the fucking YACHT CLUB driving home after one martini, or is he going to pull over the El Dorado with the tail light out?

So you can take your self righteousness and stick it where the sun dont shine.

[ChoralScholar]

22. guys, the fact that law enforcement is crooked

is a completely different topic. You're right. Some people get away with it, some don't. I drove a 1980 Chevette and got stopped on a daily basis for no fucking reason. So don't even begin to tell me about poor people getting hit more than others. You're absolutely correct. But does that make it okay to break the law?

You guys are misunderstanding me completely. I think the laws should be different, definitely. But until then, I will follow the laws we have. I don't have any choice. I don't have 10,000 dollars. And I like to keep my license.

And no, I don't drive home after I've been drinking. It's just a limit I've set for myself. Some people do things like that. That doesn't make me self righteous. It just keeps me from getting charged with a DUI.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. In Montana it is legal to drink and drive.

You can cruise down the highway doing tequila shots, if you want. Of course, once your blood-alcohol level passes a certain point, you are breaking the law.

[NJCher]

27. Chart: When You're Legally Drunk

Cher

[Blue-Jay]

28. Nice chart, but

it's now .08 almost everywhere.

Hooray for Sweden.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. When I was in Denmark

a lot of people complained about the large number of Swedes who would come to Denmark to take advantage of the more liberal alcohol laws - in other words, to get drunk. I remember living outside of Chicago when the drinking age was 21 in Illinois, and 18 in Wisconsin. So a lot of kids would drive up to Wisconsin to get drunk. One of my classmates was killed.

[KissMyAsscroft]

30. Actually its not...

Its .02 at the officers discretion. Ask my ex.

[Blue-Jay]

39. True enough.

My sister got popped with a DUI last year, before the switch from .1 to .08 BAC. She came out to see my band, had ONE drink in an hour's time and blew a .05. The Deputy's reason? She's very thin and a .05, considering her slight frame is reason enough to arrest.

Listen - I'm the last person to advocate intoxicated driving. I've seen the consequences of it all too often. It's dangerous and stupid. That said, the police need to follow the state guidelines and not be allowed to make judgement calls of this nature.

[Jack_Dawson]

31. Oh so Sanctimonious, aren't we?

You "lock 'em up and throw away the key" types are such liars if you aren't admitting you've driven while imparied at least ONCE in your life. How easy it must be to lie back and judge others. And no I've never gotten a DUI but sure it could have happened.

And yes DUIs are the hugest moneymaker anyone could ever hope for. Everyone gets paid. MADD (don't get me started), AA, Lawyers, County, Jail, Cops, you name it.

When you people get out from behind your computer, get dressed and go out on a date and have a glass of wine or two, you'll be singing a different tune.

[OhioStateProgressive]

33. i personally think DUI arrests are bullshit mostly(nt)

[Jack_Dawson]

34. Agreed

[bratcatinok]

40. Sorry but you're incorrect

AA does not get paid and I don't know where you got your information from. It's best to be accurate when making your points.

The cops in Houston don't appear to discriminate against who they pull over since I know of several upper middle class people who've been pulled over and charged with DUI. The difference is in the lawyers they can afford to hire to help them get off.

My brother-in-law is one who has had 2 DUI charges and has gotten off with a slap on the wrist after paying a lawyer a goodly sum. In June of last year he ran from the police because he was drunk. He ended up crashing his bike and being life flighted to Herman Hospital in critical condition. Turns out he wasn't really hurt though. He had a small concussion and 300 +/- fire ant bites. The police didn't charge him with drink driving because they didn't do a blood test for alcohol since they thought he was going to die. He was charged with evading police and with the help of a 'good' lawyer, he got probation and community service for 24 months.

In my opinion he should have had the book thrown at him.

[imax2268]

32. I don't talk about it much...

but I have two DUI's against me...the one thing that I learned is that I didn't have a problem with drinking and driving...I had a problem with the drinking...to bad for me it took two trips to jail before I figured that out...and jail here in AZ is no fun...We have "Camp Joe"...Joe Arpios "Tent City"...

I spent nearly 15,000 on court costs, attorny fees, interlock device, alcohol classes, MVD fines and such...it's not worth it...if there's a local spot that you like to go to on a friday or saturday night...take a cab...plain and simple...no one gets hurt and you don't go to jail...I would much rather pay a $25 cab ride to the local watering hole than face more time in jail...

Anyway...the states were forced to lower the legal limit because of pressure by the Federal Government...threats of cutting certain Federal funds...

But if you look at the stats...it has only made things worse...the occasional one drink person now gets in trouble...whether they are impaired or not...the breathalyzer says your drunk then to the police your drunk...that's it plain and simple...

Bottom line is it's just not worth it...if your going to go out and have a one drink or several drinks...have a DD or take a damn cab...

By the way...does anyone know why the founder of MADD resigned...?

She got a DUI...!

[Nikia]

35. Driving drunk is a bad thing

Aressting drunk drivers saves lives, both potential accident victim and sometimes the drunk driver who reevalutates their relationship with alcohol. Some people are arrested once and learn their lessons. Some are chronic repeat offenders who for some reason don't get it despite the penalties. I don't know if offenders are required to get alcohol rehibilitation but I think that chronic offenders should be required to get such treatment because alcohol is obviously more important to them than anything else.

[Jack_Dawson]

37. But a DUI after a beer is ridiculous

That's all we're saying.

[GOPisEvil]

36. I suspect cities and counties would trade the money from tickets and fines

if there were never again another drunk driving episode.

I would...

[Intelsucks]

38. I've been there, and prosecutors and cops will lie their ass off in court

Drinking and driving is not right, but seizing peoples' drivers licenses with all the finesse of Hitler's brigade should not be left to people who will lie in court in order to bolster their "weak" case.

[grannylib]

41. I have to weigh in here....I lost my daughter 6 years and 2 months ago

today to a drunk driver, and here's what happened to the driver of the car in which she was a passenger (she had been drinking too, as well as another passenger in the car):
It was his first DWI and even though he was charged with vehicular homicide along with the DWI, we could not see putting him in prison for 4 years for first offense...they were friends, it was not in any way intentional or malicious, just preventable, as most accidents are...so he got a year in jail (nights and weekends so he could work) and fines and community service with MADD and SADD groups, and we were happy to work with the county attorney to get him a reduced sentence...we wanted him to have the opportunity to change his life through the CS experience, and thought that the jail time and hefty fines on top of what we assumed would be guilt feelings and remorse, would be sufficient. The kid has since gotten 2 more DWIs (but no injuries or deaths resulting) so doesn't seem like a lesson learned...
As for BAL, I think one almost has to take it somewhat individually...I RARELY drink, and would be much more impaired at, say, .02 than would someone who drank more frequently...
I realize it's always problematic to apply laws fairly and evenhandedly, just my $.02 worth...