Want to hear an Al Qaeda joke?

[glarius]

My husband heard this joke on the radio on a talk show......I hope it won't be thought insensitive... but, oh well, here goes...It's a play on words.....It seems there was an Al Quaeda man talking to his friend....He proudly showed him a couple of pictures saying, "here's a picture of my dead son Ali. He's a martyr for the cause....And here's a picture of my other son Abdul, he's also a martyr...Whereupon his friend nodded his head wisely and said.....Ah yes, they blow up so fast!.....(Get it?...we usually say grow up so fast?....Was that awful?)
;)

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glarius]

2. I thought it was sick but couldn't resist the play on words aspect of it

Mea culpa...Sorry

[mmm]

4. Thank You for stepping up

I tried to think of a response that would not elicit a
warning and could think of none.

[mobuto]

11. Fight against tyranny?

Al Qaeda fights FOR tyranny by suicide. They're fighting to create their conception of the Caliphate - a totalitarian theocracy stretching across the world. They want all Westerners and religious dissenters killed, they want an end to all secular institutions, they want women enslaved and every basic freedom extinguished.

You don't need to dehumanize Al Qaeda members to see that their organization is the greatest enemy of civilization - not just in its Western incarnation but in all conceptions - around. That you would glorify or revel in their cause is profoundly offensive.

[Exultant Democracy]

14. They are a direct response to the

socio-economic factors brought about by western imperialism in the middle east. The fight both against tyranny and for tyranny, but if we removed the original tyranny from the equation then Al Qaeda and similar organizations would never be able to recruit the massive amounts of young people that they are able to.

[mobuto]

17. Nonsense

Nobody is a result of inevitable "socio-economic factors." Everybody is the function of a direct set of choices they make for themselves. Past injustice does not excuse present injustice, particularly not w.

brought about by western imperialism

Ridiculous. The governments of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc., far from being brought about by Western imperialism are its enemies. The only "imperialism" experienced by these Al Qaeda lunatics is in the form of Pepsi Cola, public education and Hollywood movies that show women as human beings.

if we removed the original tyranny from the equation then Al Qaeda and similar organizations would never be able to recruit the massive amounts of young people that they are able to.

That may be true, but that neither excuses Al Qaeda nor diminishes from the importance of our fight against it.

[Djinn]

20. I agree but

totally agree that Al Qaeda are considerably more totalitarian than most of the regines they are trying to oust. The Wahhabist form of Islam is draconian and medieval and quite frankly I think blasphemous to Islam but that's just my not very well informed opinion, however your statement that..

The governments of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc., far from being brought about by Western imperialism are its enemies

is a bit odd given that the Saudi's are a close US ally.

As for the joke, well if someone wants to make jokes about teh Wahhabi's I'm not gonna stop them


On Edit: if you asked if I thought the Palestinian version that some posts ahve mentioned is offensive I'd say YES - Palestinian's fight for statehood is completely different from those fighting in OTHER people's nations for theocracy and I think even the most ardent pro-Israeli's would agree that they're not the same thing - for a start many Palestinians aren't muslims and VERY few want a Wahhabist form of government - the Wahhabi's for example would NEVER allow female fighters.

[mobuto]

22. What's an ally?

it is a bit odd given that the Saudi's are a close US ally.
As for the joke, well if someone wants to make jokes about teh Wahhabi's I'm not gonna stop them

Saudi Arabia was founded by Ibn Saud as a reaction against imperialism. The Brits had been backing the Hashemites - the family that now rules Jordan. Ibn Saud was able to manipulate the resentment Arabians felt against foreign influence and used it to defeat the Hashemites and seize power. The Saudis have always allied with anti-Western forces to butress their own power, and that's one of the reasons why they've promoted Wahabism in their kingdom.

I don't find the original joke offensive, but it is corny.

for a start many Palestinians aren't muslims and VERY few want a Wahhabist form of government - the Wahhabi's for example would NEVER allow female fighters.

I don't think there is much of a parallel between the two, either. But extremist fundamentalists, while not the only voice among the Palestinians, are still a leading voice. Hamas is as committed to theocratic totalitarianism as any group.

[Djinn]

28. find a dictionary

Ally = One united to another by treaty or league; -- usually applied to sovereigns or states; a confederate.

btw - I know how the Saudi Kingdom originated I'm just curious as to why you think "enemy" is a correct term for a country filled to the brim with US military?

Edit: Also most of the fundie Palestinian groups were partly funded by Israel as they didn't want to deal with Arafat so if you want to talk about who created the Islamic fundies you DO need to cast the net wider than just Islam

[mobuto]

30. Why?

Because Saudi Arabia furnished 15 of 19 hijackers on September 11. Because they produced Osama bin Laden and fund his network, because they fund Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the Chechen terrorists and the Kashmiri terrorists, and the Uzbekistan Islamic Brotherhood, etc.

btw - I know how the Saudi Kingdom originated I'm just curious as to why you think "enemy" is a correct term for a country filled to the brim with US military?

The easy answer is this: they're there out of political expediency. But I think you'd be surprised at just how few personel we have in Saudi Arabia. "Filled to the brim" could not be further from the truth.

[Djinn]

42. sorry

I'm a little sceptical of the official 9/11 story so I wont go into how many of the hijackers were Saudi's - Osama while born in Saudi comes from a Yemeni family.

If Saudi is responsible for all the above, you'd think given the COW are so keen on removing dictators that we might have helped the poor Saudi's get some democratic action too.

Also on top of the military personnel there are large numbers (around 40,000 +) of American expats working in Saudi (not so usual for an "enemy" nation) and the US does BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars worth of business with them

While YOU may think the Saudi's are your enemy your government clearly does not

[Exultant Democracy]

44. Well you have an interesting take on what nonsense means,

For example extremest Muslim organizations are a direct response to western imperialism, culturally, economically and politically in the middle east. This is not nonsense, this is fact.

These groups and similar groups are what we sometimes call "reactionary" group. See that, I put quotes around reactionary because that is the important part. Reactionary groups don't come out of no where, they are a "reaction," past injustices echo down through history and wrong or right are the cause of present injustices.

During the cold war we thought that we could harness these forces in the middle east in order to further our own goals. The cash infusion that we gave these groups turned them from a local, to a global threat.

The theme here is cause and effect, action and reaction. I agree that we should fight against these groups, but 2000 years of history tells us very clearly that the method in which we have decided to fight this war will not, and can not work (unless we are willing to kill every last person in the middle east.) These groups feed on violence, and when we use violence as a coercive force in the middle east we are practically running an Al Qaeda recruitment drive.

[mobuto]

56. What isn't a response to Western Imperialism?

The haste in which some people blame Western Imperialism for all the ills of the world is really remarkable.

For example extremest Muslim organizations are a direct response to western imperialism, culturally, economically and politically in the middle east.

Really? I could have sworn they were a direct response to the Saudi and Egyptian Governments.

2000 years of history tells us very clearly that the method in which we have decided to fight this war will not, and can not work (unless we are willing to kill every last person in the middle east.)

I am not a strong believer in historical determinism. I also don't believe that Al Qaeda has the support of every last person in the Middle East.

These groups feed on violence, and when we use violence as a coercive force in the middle east we are practically running an Al Qaeda recruitment drive.

We don't have a choice. If we don't use violence against them, they'll use it against us. Now are there other things we should be doing? Absolutely. It would be as big a mistake to rely solely on violence as it would be to try to use purely non-violent means to thwart the most violent group on the planet.

[Kamika]

3. wasn't awful..

just as a joke it wasn't particularly funny..

[pagerbear]

5. I've heard the same joke

...in a Palestinian context. I don't think it's terribly sensitive, but I don't think it's really, really awful either.

[DenverDem]

6. So the desensitization to dehumanizing "the enemy" is working.

Thanks for proving the point.

[mobuto]

12. There are a lot worse things out there

Your glorification of Al Qaeda terrorism as a legitimate struggle against "tyranny" elsewhere in this thread, would certainly count as one of them.

[DenverDem]

13. Al Qaeda is a power elite front.

The point of the joke is to objectify the people in the Middle East that are fighting the tyranny of the Israeli/Amerikan axis of evil and to continue the myth that Al Qaeda is anything but a power elite controlled Hegellian tool.

[glarius]

15. The point of the joke is that it is a play on words....apparently you find

it tantamount to a capital crime...For Pete's sake lighten up!

[DenverDem]

25. Just a harmless play on words

meant to produce cognitive dissonance about the realities in the Middle East and our country's guilt in the catastrophy.

Let's all laugh at a racist joke about suicide bombers and deny our complicity.

[glarius]

27. This is SOOOO SILLY!.....Are you serious..... you must be a barrel of

laughs.....I hope I haven't ruined your day with this TERRIBLE little joke....SHEEESH!

[DenverDem]

34. I am a barrel of laughs

I just don't laugh at sick nationalist jokes.

[mobuto]

32. Racist? Bwahahaha

The only thing wrong with the joke is that its corny and utterly unfunny, but how the hell is it racist?

The only racists at play are the members of the Al Qaeda terrorist organization who wish the death of all Israelis, Americans, Europeans, etc. and the subjugation of all to their medievel blend of totalitarianism with theocratic literalism.

Let's all laugh at a racist joke about suicide bombers and deny our complicity.

Our complicity? Speak for yourself, buddy. I'm not responsible for Al Qaeda's terrorism and I don't appreciate your accusation to the contrary.

[DenverDem]

35. Your tax money armed and trained Al Qaeda.

You are responsible.

[mobuto]

37. My tax money did nothing of the kind

Prove me wrong, plucky.

[DenverDem]

43. We armed Bin Laden when he was fighting Russians

and we never stopped funding or controlling him. He's a CIA asset still and your denial of reality doesn't change the nature of the power elite's control over both sides of every conflict.

[mobuto]

50. If Bin Laden is a CIA asset

than I'm the Pope.

He's a CIA asset still and your denial of reality doesn't change the nature of the power elite's control over both sides of every conflict.

Its the Jews I tell you, the Jews! Let me know when the Black Helicopters start following you.

[AngryAmish]

61. Racist joke?

Al Quaida is a multi-racial organization.

[mobuto]

16. Ja wohl, mein Fuehrer

The point of the joke is to objectify the people in the Middle East that are fighting the tyranny of the Israeli/Amerikan axis of evil and to continue the myth that Al Qaeda is anything but a power elite controlled Hegellian tool.

By that same line of thinking, Adolf Hitler was just a tool of the Soviet/Amerikan axis used to objectify and subvert the glorious German people. Your logic is as convoluted as your arguments are specious.

[DenverDem]

24. Hitler was supported by American capital.

Your strawman argument was amusing.

[mobuto]

31. So you're saying you think Adolf Hitler

was invented by the Soviet/Amerikan axis?


Your strawman argument was amusing.


Its neither a strawman nor an argument - its simply the extension of your "reasoning" to the next level.

[DenverDem]

33. Hardly an extension of any reasoning.

Hitler is not a part of this thread.

[mobuto]

38. On the contrary

You fall into the old psychological game of "projection," where, unwilling to stomach the fact that Al Qaeda members are deranged Islamist fanatics out to murder millions, you instead project their actions onto "Amerika" and Israel.

One might as well do the same for Nazi Germany, or Genghis Khan (you know the Chinese just exaggerated, right?) or anybody else. Your argument is intellectually and morally bankrupt, and is entirely symptomatic of crude psychological defense mechanisms.

[Exultant Democracy]

46. You seem confused as to what a straw-man argument is.

To put it in simple terms a straw-man argument is when you bring up an argument that seems superficially similar to that of your opponents (this is the straw-man.)

Then you take your own fabricated argument and defeat it. (You tear down the straw-man you built.)

After you win your battle with your own fabrication you then claim that you have defeated your opponents reasoning.

The problem is that your opponents argument is in fact unscathed, and you own argument looks all the weaker because you had to resort to hyperbole and one of the most insidious forms of logical fallacy.

[mobuto]

54. I know what a strawman is

I also know that my argument, far from being a strawman, is simply the logical conclusion of DenverDem's argument which assumes that nothing about a special class can be true if s/he doesn't want it to be true. That's fallacious reasoning if I ever saw it.

[glarius]

7. Thank you for making me feel better...I'm beginning to feel like a

criminal...I guess I must have watched too much SCTV where John Candy would say "blow em up realll good" after some of their outrageous situations....I certainly don't approve of humans blowing themselves up....And incidentally I'm against capital punishment....

[AmericanErrorist]

8. Ooooooooooohhh........

:nuke:

[glarius]

9. Is that a thumbs up or a thumbs down?.....

:)

[VOX]

10. The Palestinian variant...

Two Palestinians are chatting. One pulls his wallet out and starts flipping through pictures. He says, "Here's my oldest son. He's a martyr. And here's my second son. He's a martyr too." After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Palestinian wistfully says, "They blow up so fast, don't they?"

On edit: not an endorsement of this kind of humor or a condemnation, either. It is simply part of our folkways, which often allow us to deal with taboo subjects in a very irreverent manner.

[SmileyBoy]

18. There's nothing wrong with the context of the joke.

But it was too "punny" for my tastes.

[glarius]

19. Okey dokey....I sure didn't expect to launch the philosophical war that

seems to have developed here....People need to lighten up....

[nini]

23. Don't worry...

can't please everyone all the time.. I know you didn't mean to insult anyone or your initial message would have been worded much differently.


:hug:

[glarius]

29. Thanks....I was a little hesitant about telling it but something about the

play on words tickled my funny bone....I'm sorry I seem to have started a lot of rants....When I read THEM I find the whole thing REALLY funny....Maybe it's just my weird sense of humour....Everyone seems intent on proving how much they know about Al Quaeda and Muslims and all....Sorry folks but I find that HILARIOUS!!!

[dolo amber]

21. I laughed.

:hi: :)

I've been stick-in-ass free for many years now. ;)

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

26. How about another Al Queda joke?

Do they really exist? Who says so? The * cabal? Like I am going to believe them about anything.

[mobuto]

40. No Al Qaeda doesn't exist

and if you travel to Nairobi, you'll see the same US Embassy that was always there. And if you hunt down the families of all those servicemen who died onboard the USS Cole, you'll find that they didn't really die, they just went on vacation. And if you travel to Manhattan you'll see that the Twin Towers line the skyline as always.

Yes, I'm afraid Al Qaeda does really exist.

[DenverDem]

36. Had this been a joke at the expense of the Jews

the commentary would have been very different.

That summarizes my point.

[mobuto]

39. WTF?

The joke is at the expense of Al Qaeda members, not a particular religion or ethnicity. Your parallel is simply absurd.

[DenverDem]

41. Your denial of the racist and nationalist nature of this "joke"

damns you.

[glarius]

45. The Oscars are over.. I'm off to bed...First I must say

I didn't think I was starting world war 3 with this stupid joke.....This is pathetic. I find your whole attitude distasteful and pathetic....Get a life! It's a JOKE....perhaps not all that funny, but a JOKE for God's sake!..I know the people who are blowing themselves up have been exploited and I sympathize with their plight and don't need to be lectured to or scolded....Good Night!!!!!!!

[DenverDem]

47. Just another insensitive American.

And we wonder why the world hates us.

[glarius]

48. I'm not an insensitive American...I'm an "insensitive" Canadian and the

world loves us....Go figure!!!!
Keep smiling....:D

[mobuto]

53. What a weirdo

Who knew that Al Qaeda is a privileged group.

Democratic Underground is an Affirmative Action website that does not discriminate on account of race, color, ethnicity, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation, veteran status, or membership in international terrorist organizations.

[glarius]

62. Are you sure this was meant for me or did you mean it for someone else?

n/t

[mobuto]

64. It was meant for you but I was referring to

another poster.

[glarius]

65. Okay....I thought you were

calling me a weirdo....My feelings were hurt...:)

[mobuto]

52. Is Al Qaeda a race? A nation?

Your idea that every joke that targets a Muslim is racist is racist.

damns you.

Snore.

[Mr.Green93]

49. change "they blow up " to "they get blown up" and

you will have a jewish joke

[glarius]

51. I think I'd better leave it alone.....I seem to have started world war 3

for a certain poster here....He seems on the verge of a major break down....:D

[DenverDem]

55. You two guys have a great sense of humor.

You should be on the stage.

What's next, little black sambo jokes?

[glarius]

57. Why are YOU suggesting that those are JOKES?.....

YOU ARE RACIST!....For shame!....For shame! Hide your head in shame!:spank:

[DenverDem]

58. HaHa

You're a laugh riot. And indefensable.

[glarius]

60. If you're going to call me names...at least spell correctly....the word is

indefensible....:D

[Mr.Green93]

59. just trying to point out absurdity

I apologize if my attempt was offensive.

[Zookeeper]

63. That's more of an "ouch" joke than a "ha-ha" joke...

It's a groaner because of the pun, but it's also a reminder about the state of the world. Most humor has its base in some kind of pain.

I'd love to see all the energy spent on freaking-out over this joke, directed to defeating Bush. He's the worst joke I can imagine.

[glarius]

66. Thank you for seeing what I saw in it......

I'm astounded at the reaction of at least one of the posters....