Big Bang (you know exactly what I'm talking about)

[private_ryan]

:). Ok, where did the original material come from? I'm not looking for "God created it" answers. I remember reading on Time magazine that it could've been as small as a pea, but where did that come from? What's the latest word on that?

[kalian]

1. Was being expelled by a black hole....

that's my theory. :D
Seriously...the mass and energy in some parallel universe was being
sucked in by some massive black hole...and it was being expelled
into this parallel universe.

Don't mind me...just speaking out the ass. :evilgrin:

[thom1102]

4. No, that's really not a bad explaination,

Physics wise, but it does beg the question of where and how did it all begin? I mean if all of the matter in the universe is a result of the other side of a black hole in another dimension/universe, where did the matter in THAT universe come from and how did the whole process get started?

[kalian]

12. Maybe its a "perpetual" energy recycling system....

:shrug:
I really don't know. I guess the question is: where/when did it all
start.
If we're to assume that before "it" started there was "nothing"...
then...what was there before?

Oh geez...have a brain cramp now...

[private_ryan]

16. is there such a thing as "nothing"?

or ever was? Just cause we can't figure it out doesn't mean it wasn't something

[kalian]

21. Its a human concept....

that's the only explanation IMHO.
I think there are realms of thought that physics can't answer and
that give way to philosophy.
That's why I think that the energy has always existed in one form
or another and it constantly "recycles" itself. From "existance" into
non-existance and then back again.

Balancing act...both, non-existance and existance have to "exist"
in order for the other to be able to exist...

Now I'm getting a serious headache...

[CanuckAmok]

2. I'm more interested in what surrounded the 'pea'

I mean, what was it suspended in, an infinite, perfect vacuum? What colour was it? What is 'is'?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

6. I thought that space and time also began with the Big Bang

I don't think anything surrounded anything because space and time itself came into being when the universe began to expand.

[CanuckAmok]

9. That's what I mean, though...

what was there before space and time. Even "nothing' is something, cosmos-wise. Isn't it?

I don't know. I don't even know why the "12:00" on my VCR won't stop flashing.

[brainshrub]

3. Capitan Kirk created the Big Bang.

He had traveled back in time in the ST novel: "Bean me into the past."

In that book, Kirk was eating Beans & Rice just before he was transported by "Q" to the beginning of time. While visiting the dawn of existence, Kirk farted...hence the big bang.

[gonefishing]

5. This is a good read for non sci-types (like me)

A Short History of Nearly Everything
by Bill Bryson

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767908171/ref=sib_rdr_dp/103-5564120-0284655?%5Fencoding=UTF8&no=283155&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&st=books

[Catshrink]

7. Bill Bryson wrote a great book about all that stuff.

It's called "A Brief History of Nearly Everything." It's a great read -- some of it gets a little deep but I skipped those parts. He's entertaining, funny, and writes for the non-scientific person. Definitely worth it!

on edit: link to amazon page for this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767908171/qid=1077993235//ref=pd_ka_1/104-8735503-5691162?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[seventhson]

8. "Before the Big Bang" by Dr. Ernest Sternglass (Highly recommended)

by me.

Here's a little on it:

http://www.hypography.com/Article.cfm?id=28091

More of Dr. Sternglass can be found at radiation.org

I know Dr. E and consider him a friend and genius, He invented the tubes which allowed the images of the first moonwalk to be captured for television.

Dr. E basically say that there were 4 physical constants (laws) operating which permitted the creation of the current physical universe via the Big Bang. All of physical matter evolved from a virtually invisible electron-positron pair so heavy that it was smaller than one ten-trillionth of an inch in diameter (in its spinning orbit).

He also concludes that mathematically the odds against such an occurrence happening randomly (the creation of the universe from the Big Bang) are too remote for there not to have been "intent" or "direction" from an intelligent source. (I am paraphrasing here)

But in any event he says basically that we were meant to be here and that we are in an evolutionary process towards higher understanding and wisdom.

[Birthmark]

10. Hate to argue with your friend...

...but this is nonsense:

"He also concludes that mathematically the odds against such an occurrence happening randomly (the creation of the universe from the Big Bang) are too remote for there not to have been "intent" or "direction" from an intelligent source."

The odds against such a thing happening cannot be calculated - good, bad, or indifferent. How big is "nothing?" How long did "nothing" exist before the BB? He has no basis for such a calculation.

At best, it is an argument from incredulity - a logical fallacy that is quite good at giving wrong answers. :)

[private_ryan]

13. also, on the odds

who said Big Bang didn't fail to happen a bazilion times before it really happened? When it happened it happened.

[Birthmark]

18. Exactly.

What it gets down to at this point is that before the first instant of the BB lies speculation. Some of it makes sense, most of it doesn't. There may be no way to verify the right answer.

[kalian]

24. And thus...we get into speculation and philosophy....

and your "comfort zone" as to what best equates your correct answer
to be... ;)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

23. You can't think of it as a "when"

as there was no time elapsing before the Big Bang, as we understand time.

[kalian]

25. Ahh....careful now...

we're talking a human notion.

[seventhson]

20. Why don't you read it first and then say you disagree.

I said I was paraphrasing this in my best attempt to explain it.

My thought is that if intelligence exists in the universe then it must have always existed. If I have it it came from somewhere.

That somewhere is the "Creator" by whatever name.

Maybe my intelligence is just a reflection of the mind of "God" or maybe it is fruitpunch (or some other accidential mixture of electricity and other substances).

I prefer the former and find there is more evidence and reason to support it.

[Birthmark]

29. Out of chao...order.

Do you think that hurricanes have always existed? (I don't mean that as smarmy as it sounds - but it's a good question.)

[Thor_MN]

30. But your own logic fails you....

I don't believe it can be argued that the entire zoo of subatomic particules doesn't exist. If we add your thought that for something to exist, it has to have always existed, the notion that the universe came from a single electron-positron pair becomes impossible.

If you prefer to believe in intelligent design, fine by me. But to suggest that there is any evidence or reason to support intelligent design is just plain wrong. There is no evidence to prove intelligent design - none against it either.

I prefer to believe in simple answers, such as mix enough fuel, oxygen and heat together and you will get fire. I don't need to invoke a miracle to explain it.

[Thor_MN]

28. And what was the "intelligent source" made out of???

If believing in a creator allows someone to sleep better at night, fine, but trying to make arguements for the existence of a creator is an exercise in futility. All arguements for religion boil down to "Because"

[private_ryan]

11. and that electron-positron was just here?

n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

15. So what created the intelligence

that planned the BB?

[private_ryan]

17. none was needed

n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

27. You know, it's always in these cheapshit universes,

that just get thrown together without intelligent design, that you find fucked up things like ice ages, Caligula and the BFEE.

[Birthmark]

14. <sigh> Here goes.

I don't know what the very latest is, but I'll tell what I know. In the inflationary version of the BB, the original material wasn't originally there. The universe started out infinetesimally small. Because of inflation (and I'm not going to try to explain where the inflation came from at this point) the pressure inside the "baby universe" was negative. To balance things out matter/energy appeared. The amount of mass/energy in the universe is exactly offset - mathematically - by the negative gravitational potential energy in the universe. IOW, when we add it all up we get zero. Interesting, no?

[private_ryan]

19. interesting

only if they can explain "The universe started out infinetesimally small". Started with what?

[Birthmark]

26. A random fluctuation in nothing.

[Thor_MN]

33. Did the inflation result from "Trickle-Down" or Supply Side policy

from the creator?

Oh wait, that would disprove "Intelligent Design." Nevermind.

[kalian]

22. What happens if....

out "universe", as we "understand it" is just a small electron in
something larger.
One of those matrioshka dolls, you know, a big doll that contains
subsequent smaller dolls until you get to a tiny little one...
They just get smaller and smaller and smaller until at some point,
it starts all over again but at a different dimension of "existance".

[private_ryan]

35. it's probably true. Why would only be one?

I would guess that we can't access /comprehend that. Sorta parallel universe.

[DS1]

31. why does it have to come "from" anywhere, why can't it just "have been"

There's your answer, in the form of a question.

I'll take The Rapists for 400 Alex.

[ewagner]

32. Thanks for posting this question

Since I'm not a physics major (or even a philosophy major) I can't speak with great authority here; only as an amateur who has read as much as he could absorb on the topic.

With all the competing theories and beyond the assumption that the only thing that could exist before the BB was God, I have come up with my perfect cop-out position. Physics as we know it did not exist before the BB. It is a by-product of the BB. What existed before the BB is something beyond our current knowledge just as some the arguments in String Theory allow for as many as 11 different dimensions which are also far beyond our current knowledge. (knowledge? Hell, try our comprehension.) It may sound crazy to you but it's the best way I can intellectually deal with the inconsistencies of competing theories. Have fun with it!

[Thor_MN]

34. That's an excellent way to think about it

Certainly better than claiming that:

1. Your team won
2. You were just in killing people
3. Your bad behavior is fine
X. Etc.

Because the will of the unknowable, unprovable existence was on your side.

[Az]

36. Void is unstable

One theory is that the void is unstable. From these instabilities a multitude of universes were extruded. Each universe the result of its particular flux. Its various dimensions folded in differing ways. Ours having 4 (3 spatial and 1 chronological) with the other 6-7 folded up and below our ability to percieve.

Thus from nothing momentary extrusions of balanced forces exist until energy zeros out thus returning to nothing. This is simply one theory. There are others out there. It is a process we follow to discern the truth.

[ewagner]

37. Cool AZ

hadn't heard or thought about that idea.....