"Fearing God" and faith -

[Skip Intro]

Sorry that this post is "choppy" and stream-of-conscious-like - that may be as it should - plus the debate is on...

I received an email concerning a Paul Harvey commentary on Mel Gibson, and PH ended by praising MG as a "God fearing" man.

I consider myself a Christian, probably, in part, because I was born in the USA, and went to Catholic school for eight years. I am by no means a "professional" Christian, and I rarely practice what is widely considered to be a "Christian" lifestyle. But while I may feel excluded from the fundies (man, there are a lot of 'em down here)and the institutional view of what being a Christian is, I feel my relationship with whom I mostly believe to exist as a superior being is strong, and personal.

And the God I believe in is a loving, forgiving God - I in no way "fear" that entity.

Let me go a little further.

I see those on television, those on on the right, those that put messages on their electric signs in front of their churches, those that come to my door from time to time - pleading with me, demanding that I "believe" what they believe. What I take exception to is not their view or their right to express that view, but their definition of "believing."

What does it mean to believe? Is belief a conscious act one might put into motion after arriving thru logic that belief is warranted? Can you "force" yourself to believe? Or is belief more like an emotion which, for the most part, comes from the heart, or somewhere other than logic?

I've had it explained to me more than once that I must believe in Christ and the Christian paradigm if I wish to be "saved" and reserve a place in "Heaven." But if, in the end, I feel those that put forth that argument fail to make their case, how can I believe? Do I say, as a family member once told me, that I should believe "just in case?" Is that "belief?"

Ok, rambling on a big subject I rarely visit. I'll stop here.

[SOteric]

1. I've always considered belief more like a kind of commitment.

Human beings can never know truly whethere there is a god or there is no god. We can have a host of rationale for thinking one possibility more likely than another. But from my viewpoint those who believe have chosen to make a commitment to the hunch, the intuitive sense, the notion that there is a god. Those who are Atheist cannot know with certainty that they are correct, but they've made an intellectual commitment to their rationale against the existence of any god. Those who are Agnostic are, in the dictionary definition of the word, noncommittal. So they've no real commitment to a god's existence or non-existence either way.

So if it's like a commitment, it's not substantially different than the institution of marriage. We can never know, undertaking a relationship, that it will last for the rest of our lives. Current evidence seems to suggest a slim probability. But that does not stop people from forming unions and making a commitment to one another in what could well be described as a hunch, an intuitive belief that this will be a lifelong love. -Or the opposite, from shunning marriage, committed only to the idea that all things change.

The most admirable men and women of faith that I've known have had doubts. It's human to doubt and doubting the existence of god is almost a prerequisite to a healthy intellect. So yes, for most of us who believe, belief does periodically require an act of will. Some days we have to work to believe, other days it comes rather naturally.

I hope I've gotten the tone and texture of your ramble. By the way, I don't much fear god either. But I think that Paul really wanted the Romans to do so, and much of contemporary Christianity is rather unfortunately based on his epistles.

[Droopy]

2. I'm an atheist, but I agree with you

If there is a God he/she should not be one to be feared. I think the notion that people will be punished for an eternity for their sins is what first turned me off to religion. How could the Creator be so cruel? I've got no problem with people having faith in God. Religion, for all its faults, has also helped a great many people. I know a person right now who is going through some serious bad times and wouldn't be able to cope if it were not for his faith. It's hard for me to knock that. So I guess I could say like the Doobie Brothers that Jesus is just alright with me. I just don't believe in an afterlife. Jesus stood for peace and forgiveness. I can dig that. Call me an atheist for Christ.