Watching Star Trek Nemesis for the first time on AMC

[pokerfan]

and man does it suck!

[Phredicles]

1. Gawd it sucked SO much ass;

Big trekkie here, especially Next Gen (see signature pic :D ). I just hate that that big steaming turd was the note they went out on.

[pokerfan]

2. I never bothered to see it when it was in the theaters

Never got around to renting it. It really should have been the death knell for the series but there's a new one next year that might actually suck even more.

[LeftyMom]

3. If it sucked any more, light would not escape.

Which would be a blessing, really.

[arcadian]

4. Weird. I was just doing a search on ebay for "Star Trek poker chips"

I thought that the Star Trek hotel in Vegas had a casino and wondered what the poker chips looked like. When I saw your user name and thread title, thought it was a bit odd. Didn't find any.

[pokerfan]

5. Star Trek hotel?

I visited the Star Trek Experience a while back but wasn't aware of a themed hotel. But I was never that big of a fan.

[arcadian]

6. Maybe that's it.

I thought the whole hotel was Star Trek themed.

[pokerfan]

It's the Hilton, IIRC

It was fun in a kind of Universal Studio way and it dumps you into a hugh Star Trek gift shop where I spent a total of zero dollars.

[ikojo]

24. I heard they are closing down the Star Trek Experience

Too bad because I've never been there and I LOVE the original series.

[DarkTirade]

7. Yeah, I'm glad I didn't pay money for that one.

In fact, I've never paid money to see ANY of the next gen movies. A friend payed for our tickets to see Generations, and I decided not to bother seeing any of the ones afterwards until I knew somebody who had 'em on video. :P

[pokerfan]

8. I think Generations was the last one I saw on the big screen

[DarkTirade]

11. That was the only one I saw on the big screen

but that's 'cause I was a bit young for most of 'em the first time around.

[pokerfan]

12. I was in college

when KHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN! came out.



Still my favorite of the series.

[LeftyMom]

9. First Contact was not bad.

It had a few painfully stupid moments where it tried to be funny, but the cast was great and the plot was better than most Trek movies.

I mean, it's not Wrath of Khan, but what is?

[DarkTirade]

10. Yeah, but I didn't discover that until I saw it on DVD.

At someone else's house.

For the most part the only ones worth watching are the even numbered ones. And since they stopped using numbers for the next gen ones, that leaves them out. :P Seriously though, 2 and 6 are the best, and 4 was just fun. Silly fun most of the time, but fun nonetheless.

I'm still of the opinion that all the movies after Generations never happened though. Picard was in a situation where he could live any kind of life he imagined. And a perfect dream world wasn't what he really wanted. So he imagined stopping the bad guy, saving the world, ect. And then continued on in his little Nexus-inspired delusion. Next on his mind was to deal with his old borg-induced trauma, so that's the next big adventure he goes on.

[charlie and algernon]

16. First Contact may have had the best score of any ST movie

I LOVE the main theme for the movie.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

34. I've got this hillarious "nitpickers" list of First Contact from a now-defunct scifi mag.

I break it out once in a while to remind myself that First Contact had just a few plot holes.
I should see if I could find it again. It's great.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

13. Putting Data's dumbassdroid "brother" and CloneLuc Picard in the same movie

Who's idea was that?

Oh yeah... probably Rick Berman. The asshole who ruined the Star Trek franchise.

Oh, and when did Janeway become an admiral? Wasn't Voyager supposed to have taken place long after TNG??

Still though, it was better than "Star Trek V: The Search for God"

[sarge43]

15. Berman should be hunted down and destroyed for the damage he did.

Voyager takes place within the lifetimes of the Ent-D's crew; Barkley shows up in a few 'sodes - don't ask.

Battlefield Earth is better than ST V.

[hedgehog]

18. Not to mention an entire bunch of (de)evolved Romulans who had

never been previously mentioned.

[Orrex]

35. I didn't mind that part so much. I mean, why not?

Before ST:TMP, we had never seen ridge-skulled Klingons, either.

Hey--the film had more than enough major stuff wrong with it. I'm not going to quibble about the introduction of a hitherto unknown alien race.

[DarkTirade]

21. A pile of camel feces is better than Star Trek 5.

So that ain't exactly saying a whole lot.

[Deja Q]

14. American Movie CLASSICS?!?! Since when is that toddler scribble a "classic"?!? Or even a movie?!!!!!

:yoiks:

[Orrex]

19. They have to air something between Chuck Norris and Charles Bronson films

Or is that A&E? I can never remember which sucks more.

[Dr. Strange]

17. Attack of the Picard Clones?

That was the first Star Trek movie that I did NOT see in the theater.

[Orrex]

20. Here are ten things that were cool about Star Trek: Nemesis that may not have occurred to you:

I admit, they're easily overlooked amid the suckage, but here goes:

1. Dina Myers: say what you will, but I found her performance convincing and committed. It's rare that the Romulans are portrayed as anything other than angry people with big-shouldered costumes.
2. The battle sequence, complete with rollovers and phaser volleys, whereas most (all?) previous ST space battles seem based on a sequential fire/wait/repeat methodology.
3. No one has ever seen Ron Perlman outside of six hours' worth of heavy duty prosthetic makeup. What you thought was Ron Perlman in Alien 4 and The Last Supper was simply the most elaborate makeup of all.
4. "Thaleron" is a cool-sounding word.
5. This was the first wheeled Federation vehicle ever shown in Trek, I believe. I can't think of another, unless one showed up in ST:ENT that I'm forgetting. Captain Pike's "wheelchair" doesn't count, because we don't see the wheels.
6. At one point the Scimitar is observed to be "firing through its cloak," which may be the first time I've ever heard a cloaking device so explicitly (and IMO satisfyingly) likened to an actual cloak that one might wear for concealment (its obvious thematic precursor).
7. Data's spacewalk. We've known since Datalore that deep space doesn't really hurt Soong androids, but it was gratifying to see it used here. And it's about time!
8. First Trek-use of realtime text messaging during combat. A very minor detail, but I liked it.
9. Perhaps the first time that Troi's "talent" was put to good use. Every other previous application of her "empathy" gave about as much info as you could figure out for yourself from a brief handshake.
10. Riker finally accepted a commission.

[Deja Q]

22. Okay...

1. Romulans are typically full of guile. Here they are as cliched as possible and seem all too willing to become friends (again) - only this time there are no tricks. What next, Star Trek TNG V - Forgiveness of the Ferengi?!

2. That's the one where the ships ram, and the whole audience gagged as to how the two ships could pull themselves apart -- in space!! UGH! Or do you mean where Picard and Data hop in the shuttle and cruise through Shizzle's ship?

3. Yeah, but it wasn't worth it! Gloss is transparent when there's no substance behind it. The story reeked; pretty effects won't save it.

4. So is Tholian.

5. Cheater.

6. Mostly due to the effects; Star Trek VI also had a ship that could fire while cloaked.

7. I'll buy into that one. Of course, the whole movie was about Data - again - and, as usual, Geordi and Crusher and even Troi were left out - again.

8. Didn't impress me, but Riker saying "The Kirk maneuver" got the audience enthused... for 3 seconds...

9. Bzzt. Wrong-o! Until "Nemesis", she NEVER had such abilities - and in numerous TV episodes explicitly states the contrary of such things!! Oh, when Shizzle's henchman telepathically screws around with Troi... The scene also rips off that season 5 episode where Troi is mind-raped. (Of course, that episode couldn't be bothered to be sci-fi, so the rape isn't a psychological thing as much as it's the guy telepathically humping her. Whatever. That episode was pretty lame - typical season 5 drivel too.)

10. And yet Picard still can't. Have to wonder why... Even Janeway got to be an Admiral...

[Orrex]

26. Let's start by restating my agreement with the view that, as a whole, the film sucked

Regardless, there's no harm in revisiting the few good points. To wit:

1. With the notable exceptions of Spock, Sarek, Tuvok, and T'Pol, just about every Vulcan in the entire franchise is portrayed as a petulant child with a big vocabulary and a Moe haircut. It's the ones who break from this stereotype (well, excluding the haircut) that really stand out. Dina Meyer's character does this here, and in fact her portrayal evokes Mark Lenard's own Romulan way back in The Enterprise Incident. He is clearly portrayed as a thoughtful, honorable character bested in combat.

2. What's the big deal about the two ships pulling apart? Do any two objects that come into contact with each other in space thereafter have to stay together? Both ships still have their artificial gravity intact, so presumably their inertial dampers are likewise online. Either ship could "put it in reverse" and pull away from the other; this is entirely consistent with canon (though, admittedly, Star Trek canon isn't consistent with canon...)

3. What are you talking about? I was simply busting on Perlman--I wasn't claiming that the effects saved a crappy script. :wtf:

4. Uh... What? You have a problem with broadly repetitive made-up words? And you're still a Star Trek fan? How is that possible?

5. Yeah, yeah. Name another wheeled Federation vehicle, tough guy!

6. True, but that design was inferior. And, anyway, I wasn't simply talking about the ability to fire while the cloaking device was active; I was referring to the explicit likening of a cloaking device to an actual, cloth cloak. And "firing through his cloak" is a direct quote from the film, evoking the image of a stealthy evil-doer shooting a pistol through the fabric of the cloak he wears for concealment. This wasn't a major point, per se, but the mere fact that they said it was pleasing to me. YMMV.

7. On the other hand, the mini-transporter is one of the dumbest Trek ideas on record. How the hell do you stuff a Heisenberg compensator into one of those little things? And where's the pattern buffer?

8. Also of note: at one point a tactical display is shown, and one of the ships is the USS Archer. Since I know that you're a ***HUGE*** fan of ST:ENT, I'm sure that this must delight you!

9. I agree with you about the Season 5 rip off, and I object to it as a trite plot device. Too often in tv series the pretty actress is raped (physically or otherwise) for what amounts to little more than raw titillation. But beyond that, the Reman established a psychic link with Troi, and this is what she exploited. It wasn't simply her empathic abilities--she was tapping into the link that he had put in place. Also, we've seen a number of examples of Troi uselessly saying "I sense something" without being able to tell what or where. This time, thanks to the link, she was able to track him down. Even if you don't care for the idea, I think that it's sufficiently innovative to get at least a nod.

10. Kirk told Picard not to accept a promotion, if it meant yanking him out of the Captain's chair. I think that's all the explanation we need.

As you refute/rebut these points, please bear in mind that I'm not claiming that they redeem the film, because they don't. All I'm saying is that these were the positives in a generally pretty crappy movie.


One other point: what the hell was Wesley doing at the wedding? Isn't he out traipsing around the universe with the Traveler? Of course, that whole Native Americans vs. Cardassians is a pandering low point of the series, so maybe they were hoping we'd just forget what happened in that one...

[LeftyMom]

25. 2. Only true if you count movies.

More three-dimensional space battles were well established during the Dominion War plotline on DS9.

Even a movie-only viewpoint is arguable- the little bit of the battle with the Borg we see in First Contact more closely resembles the DS9 three dimensional tactical model than the TOS/Next Gen two ships a level plane with the camera alternating fire model of space combat (though all of the ships appear to be "right side up" which is annoyingly planet-based thinking and would presumably be trained out of starship officers.)

7 is a good point though. It's unfortunate the deflector dish scene in First Contact takes place while Data is captive- it would have been a perfect application of his capabilities, though the use of Worf is highly amusing.

[Orrex]

29. I'm actually not all that familiar with DS9

But it's cool to hear that they made use of 3D battles there.

RE: First Contact, though, I'd argue that that's a different scenario, since it amounts to a bunch of mid-size vessels attacking a battleship, rather than the ship-to-ship combat shown in Nemesis. Of course, the Scimitar is substantially larger, but it's of the "starship" template instead of a "worldship" like the Cube.

Of course, this is hardly an ironclad point, and I only mention it because I found its portrayal onscreen sufficiently gratifying to list it in the "plus" column.

[LeftyMom]

36. If you're interested in that sort of battle, you should definitely watch the dominion war sequence

from DS9, because the battle scenes are huge, lavish and very well done. I think you'd like them. It's a rather long story arc, you'd pretty much need all of seasons 5-7.

[Orrex]

37. All I know is that Jeffrey Combs is in it, and that's plenty good enough for me

I just can't stand the way Sisko and Kira hyperemote all of their lines. After about five minutes it gets to be too much.

Also, after the holodeck softball game and A Touch of Latinum, I just couldn't bring myself to watch any more. Maybe I'll revisit the Dominion War arc once I've recovered.

[ikojo]

23. Not sure I've seen that one. I've not seen any of the Next Gen

movies. I think the last Trek movie I saw was the one directed by Shatner and that one BLEW CHUNKS.

[elshiva]

27. Have you seen Star Trek: Insurrection?

I haven't seen Nemesis, but Insurrection SUCKS. Better or worse than Insurrection?

[LeftyMom]

28. Worse.

Insurrection is a snooze. I've rented it three times because I kept forgetting I'd already seen it.

Nemesis could lead you to harm yourself or others in an attempt to end the pain. I only wish I could forget that pile of crap.

[elshiva]

30. Thanks for the information.

I love Data, but in Insurrection he was just an idiot.

[Orrex]

31. You know, I do have another question about Nemesis (SPOILER!)

How did Shinzon manage to pull himself forward while impaled on a roughly cone-shaped object? I'm not talking pain here, just simple physics. It would be damned hard to push a similar object through a person even if you had the full leverage of your weight. But Shiny somehow propelled himself along using just his faux-Picard biceps?!?

For that matter, how lame is it that Picard pulled the spike down from the wall as though he were setting a spear to receive a charge? A blind man falling down a staircase could avoid such a slowly-deployed weapon, yet we're to believe that Shiny couldn't help impaling himself? Come on!

[LeftyMom]

33. NOTHING in that movie made sense.

As far as I'm concerned, it's like Highlander 2. It was a mess, it screwed up the existing storyline something fierce (not that bad, but what does) and I refuse to notice that it exists.

[pokerfan]

32. even worse than Insurrection

in my opinion.