Anyone want a Springer Spaniel and/or a Cattle Dog? They're getting on my last damn nerve

[XemaSab]

Tonight I was sitting on the couch Bailey (the 100 lb springer) was sitting next to me and Pippi (the 60 lb cattle dog) jumped up on my lap. Pippi chilled on my lap for a few minutes, then Bailey started giving her crap, getting on top of her and chewing her ears. Before I knew it, I had a full-blown dog fight in my lap, and Bailey kicked my cheek really hard and totally scratched me. I had to hold ice against my cheek for a while, and I look like I've been battered.

Yesterday they were barking at the postman and somehow THAT turned into a fight, and Bailey totally tore up Pippi's ear. It's still bleeding on and off today, and her ears are covered with scars from previous altercations.

When I feed the dogs, I have to feed Pip outside because she eats delicately, and Bailey inhales his food, and since Pippi isn't done yet, Bee will turn around and eat half of Pip's food too. He'll snatch food off your plate while YOU'RE eating.

I'd throw him outside, but he knows how to open the back door, and if the door is locked, he'll just throw himself FRANTICALLY against the door, screaming all the while.

Bailey does this sort of shit all the damn time, but I don't want it to sound like it's all his fault.

Bailey is sort of innocent about some things. For example, the other day I gave them each a soup bone to chew on. Pippi had hers on the couch, and Bailey had his on the floor. After about 3 hours of devoted chewing, Bailey needed to go get some water, and he stupidly left his bone on the floor. Pip snaked it, and when I went to go get one of the bones back from her to give it back to Bailey, she totally snapped at me. And then later on in the evening they had yet another fight about one of the bones, where they were both on the couch with me and Pippi totally started it.

I know that part of the problem is that Bailey HATES hot weather, so if we're all chilling outside, he'll just kick the door open and go inside (much to my irritation). If we go to the dog park, he'll curl up under a tree while Pip runs around. He hates the water, so he won't go swimming or play in the sprinkler. If I took him for a walk I'd worry that he would literally collapse. So at the end of the day he's full of vinegar and he decides that inside the house is a good place to act it out.

The dogs genuinely love each other, but having them hurt each other (and us) all the time is not cool. It's also not cool how self-centered Bailey is.

Anyone else ever dealt with anything like this? :shrug:

[grasswire]

1. have you watched the Dog Whisperer?

First, I think he would say that the dogs need to walk as a pack, and get tired. I realize that you're having hot weather, but could you walk them at night or early in the morning?

Have you watched Caesar and seen how a dog changes when he/she becomes part of a relaxed pack, with the human as the pack leader? His first step toward that pack mentality is walking all together, in a calm and assertive energy, with the dogs walking quietly on either side of you -- never in front of you. Leashes relaxed, your shoulders up. And he says that working dogs should be given some work to do, and often facilitates that by putting a vest on the dog that is fitted to hold water bottles for weight. That gives them "work" and satisfies that innate need.

Aside from their need to be tired out daily and need to be a pack with you as the pack leader, perhaps you could come up with some ideas about the misbehavior if you got Caesar's DVD and watched a bunch of episodes. He's really good. It sounds like Bailey thinks he's the pack leader.

[yellowdogintexas]

8. I can vouch for the water bottle vest calming the dog down during the walk

my daughter brought an ADD pitbull into our home when she moved back in with us and man did that heavy vest calm him down.

just look at that face (that cat was HIS cat, poor kitty had to be put down due to a chronic illness these two were quite attached)
Bobbycobain with his favorite prey: the elusive Ozarka bottle.

We found a local version of a dog whisperer and took him down there. He worked wonders with that dog, taught us all better ways to deal with him and my daughter (who always was very firm with the dog) is definitely the pack leader. This dog had fear aggression issues with people and dogs and both are well under control now. He used to be a world of work on a walk, but now is quite calm and attentive when on leash. He even had special doggie friends at the Dog Whisperer's compound that he totally LOVED; before he wanted no part of other dogs except possibly to try to eat them.

We used to call him ADD dog because he was just so hyper and flitting from this thing to that thing to another thing. When he put on that vest, from the very first time he felt the weight, he became Focused Working Dog. We also got him a clear acrylic muzzle which removed his major fighting tool: his mouth. It is really neat, he can drink while wearing it and you can give him small snacks through it. (taught him to wear it by smearing peanut butter inside it, his favorite treat in all the world)

We were never able to train him to not try and eat our cats (their interpretation) so we kept cats upstairs and dog downstairs.

You don't live in North Texas do you? If you do, PM me and I will send you info on our miracle worker. You know you really don't want to give them up but I do understand the last nerve feeling.

[Adsos Letter]

2. ...cattledog...

Not exactly the problem you describe, but...our Australian Cattle Dog is gonna' give our 19 year old cat a heart attack one of these days with all of her herding and bossiness...She is a true obsessive/compulsive about the cats. Never hurt one of them, but watches 'em like hawks, and herds 'em any chance they give her.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. wow...glad I have a cat.

[livetohike]

4. I have two cattle dogs (an ACD and a Lousiana Catahoula Leopard)

They are each 5 1/2 years old. I'm constantly amazed that they haven't killed each other yet. I always thought it was a dominance issue. They love to play rough. When they were puppies, I was worried about the way they play, but neither has ever drawn blood. I think much of their play behavior is instinctive cattle dog stuff. I am careful to treat Cindy as the dominant dog....she gets her collar on first, she gets groomed first, she gets a treat first, etc.

They fight over the food bowls from time to time. I've observed their routine and know they have worked it out. Cindy grabs a couple of mouthfuls from Murphy's bowl while he watches, then she moves over to her bowl and they both eat. If Cindy leaves her bowl, Murphy moves over to it and will not let her back to eat until he is finished. That's how the fight starts. Both are on a diet now, so they inhale their food so fast they have no time to fight :-).

Cattle dog breeds are very smart. Maybe watch how you and other family members are treating them and look for inconsistencies. I know you can work out the problems :-).

I wouldn't trade either of them for the world. They can both be very loving. Murphy (the ACD) will lick you to death if given a chance and Cindy likes to just come up and lick your hand for no reason.

[XemaSab]

7. Cattle dogs are sweeties

Pippi is a rescue, so if you get mad she's really conciliatory.

Bailey, on the other hand, will walk away from you in a nonchalant manner if you're yelling at him. :shrug:

[livetohike]

10. They really are sweet. We've always had Lab/Shepherd

mixes, so this has been an experience! Cindy came from the shelter in South Central Los Angeles and Murphy from a San Diego County shelter. We've had both since they were eight weeks old. They love it back east here - lots of room to run off that cattle dog energy. Neither likes the water though :-(.

[CreekDog]

5. my goodness, there's a lot of drama in your house

:pals:

[Love Bug]

6. Have you thought about obediance training for Bailey?

[XemaSab]

11. He went to puppy class and loved it

but the pound has an irritating training schedule for dogs. You have to enroll in a 6-week class, but the classes are offered irregularly. :shrug:

I need to look into this, though.

[zanne]

9. Even though they're a handful, they sound like wonderful dogs.

I'm glad you're doing everything you can to make life better for both of them. (And you, of course).

[dropkickpa]

12. One way to minimize snarkiness

Is to be careful with resources, because a lot of this sounds like resource guarding. Do you crate? High value resources, such as a bone and your affection, can cause a lot of snarkiness. I wouldn't give high value treats except in very controlled situation since you've already had incidents (ie - ya'll only get your bones in your crates). I would also feed in their crates, to give Pip peace to eat and Bailey no chance to access her food.

Good obedience is also essential. Do you practice NILIF (nothing in life is free)? The basic premise is that NOTHING good comes without doing something for you. Need to go out? You gotta sit before I open the door. Want an ear scratch? Sit first. Want dinner? You gotta do a down-stay and wait for my release. It's actually pretty simple to incorporate into everything you do, and with them focusing on you for their "rewards", they will spend less time snarking with each other for them. YOU are the source, and they can only get it from you, not by taking it from each other. Not in a mean way, never that, just very matter-of-fact. Here's a bunch of links
http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm
http://www.greyhoundlist.org/nothing_is_free.htm
http://www.nomorehomelesspets.org/behavior/dog/nilif.htm
http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/resources/articles/dogs/002-01.htm


No offense, but, it sounds like, with some added obedience work in your house, you'd see a big improvement. Nothing hardcore, but 10 minutes scattered throughout the day of just working on simple things such as sit, down, etc would give you more control in stressful situations, such as with the postman. They start going off, you call them to you and start doing some obedience, simple sits or shakes. The fight at that point seems to have started as a redirection of frustration at not being able to get at the creepy person who comes up to the house and leaves stuff everyday! You need to redirect their attention/energy at times like that so that it doesn't get the chance to escalate to the point that it did.

[XemaSab]

13. I've been working on it a little

but it's hard to work with them both at the same time since they're at different "levels." For example, Bailey "knows" jump up, off, lie down, and stand up. Pippi knows stay and wait. But both dogs don't know both of these things.

And if there's a situation where one is getting treats, they're both going to want treats.

But I like your suggestions.

[dropkickpa]

14. Working with multiple dogs CAN be hard

Try starting with teaching them to do a simultaneous sit, you holding a treat in each hand. NO treat until butts hit the floor. It takes time, that's for sure. But big doggy eyes gazing up at you full of love are just SO worth all the troule the little snots put us through!