I am sick of all this holier-than-thou shit here on DU

[Taverner]

Regarding the Edwards affair

For one, it is none of our business. If Edwards wasn't running for office, say applying for a job as your boss at a company - would this really be any of your business?

This is a private matter that has been made public by the bloodthirsty media. Just read Elizabeth's letter on Kos. What is bothering her most is not the affair, but how she's reminded about it every five minutes on the news. Imagine you're Elizabeth - tell me that's still *our* business now?

[ThomCat]

1. Agreed

It's like a bunch of sharks smelling blood in the water, and suddenly everybody is in a frenzy. :(

It's because of shit like this than the republicans get away with turning democrats' affairs into career killing scandals.

[Taverner]

2. exactly eom

[Zavulon]

3. Those of us who supported Edwards and admire Elizabeth have a right to be pissed off.

Oh, and if he were applying for a job at my company and I knew of this, I wouldn't even think of hiring him. If his wife can't trust him, why the fuck should I?

[Taverner]

4. Its irrelevant

So should we have some kind of sexual purity test to take a job?

I call BS on all of that

And is your private life subject to your employer's snooping??

Are you saying that in addition to a background check, we should check with anyone who knew you when you apply for a job?

[Danger Mouse]

6. It's not about 'sexual purity' for the love of God, it's about HONESTY and being TRUSTWORTHY.

Yet some people don't seem to get this Edwards lied to his wife and to the public.
THAT'S the issue.

[Taverner]

10. So you've never told a lie?

It's not about honesty - good god these folks are POLITICIANS!!!!! I don't want honesty! If any politician went by honesty, they never would have made it past the School Board elections!

For me its about electability, competence and issues. I don't give a rat's ass what the politician does on his or her off hours, as long as it doesn't affect me. Its the stuff that he does on hours that bothers me.

[Danger Mouse]

14. Good for you. For me, character counts.

Lying about an affair, having an affair on your sick wife in the first place, and giving her a cushy job with a six-figure salary on the public dime...says a lot to me about his character, and none of it is good.
Would you be so willing to look the other way if Edwards were a REPUBLICAN?

[Taverner]

19. It depends - is the Republican say Henry Hyde who prosecuted Clinton for having an affair?

Or is this just Mr Joe Republican Senator who fooled around with his intern?

[Danger Mouse]

23. Edwards was so happy to put parade his family on the national stage.

Knowing full well what he had done to them.
He also had the balls to try to run for president KNOWING that he would get caught eventually. He put the party and our chances of winning the presidency at risk for the sake of his damn EGO and because he can't keep it in his pants.
I'm sorry, but I have NO sympathy for the bastard.

[Taverner]

27. OK, well what do you think of Ted Kennedy, Gary Hart, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, JFK, RFK, MLK

They all had affairs

Do you have any sympathy for those "bastards"?

[Danger Mouse]

29. Hillary Clinton had an affair?

Do tell.
And to those who did, I think it was a bad thing. Bill Clinton was stupid, stupid, STUPID to carry on an affair in the white house. JFK...well, he was able to get away with it.
In our current environment, you can't. Edwards should have known better...just as Big Dog should've known better.

[Taverner]

31. Vince Foster, and she admitted it

[Danger Mouse]

33. I never heard about that.

was she running for office at the time?
hm. didn't think so.

[Taverner]

35. No, I think she was working at the Rose Law Firm at the time

But that shouldn't matter, because you said 'character counts'

[Danger Mouse]

41. Well, it does matter...it's already out there.

She didn't run for office while trying to keep that a secret...or lie about it, either.

[LostinVA]

151. He's making it up -- that why you never heard of it

[Kali]

47. reall y?

I never heard that. Is there a statement or link?

[Taverner]

58. Here's one, there's a lot more

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article1874664.ece

I honestly believe Vince Foster committed suicide because he couldn't have the woman he loved (Hillary Clinton)

He was MADLY in love with her

[Kali]

83. um

that didn't confirm what you stated about an affair or that she admitted it. It does seem to indicate a deeply caring relationship, but nothing about an affair. I did a bit of googling and couldn't find anything but debunked right wing claims.

I don't mean to argue with you (and I do tend to agree about politicians and affairs), but you made this statement about Clinton and Foster and it does not seem to be true.

[Taverner]

101. It was in her book...

She talked about it...its not easy to dig this up without access to her book

[Kali]

133. you seem to contradict yourself

Here's one, there's a lot more
vs.
its not easy to dig this up without access to her book

I couldn't find anything. Wingnut websites are the only places I see it and you would think they might use her own confession as proof, yet they don't seem to. Maybe you are mistaken?

[LostinVA]

152. I've actually read her book, and he's making it up

You can only find it on wingnut places, because that's the only place it belongs.

[Marrah_G]

153. When exactly did she admit to that?

[ikojo]

143. Wasn't Edwards all sanctimonious about Clintons tryst with

Monica Lewinsky?

There's a quote somewhere in GD wherein Edwards was all righteous about Clinton.

[ikojo]

144. Delete duplicate posting

[TZ]

21. Well

Do you like Ted Kennedy? He's certainly done his share of lying to the public.

[Taverner]

25. Excellent example

And give me Ted ANY DAY over someone who's clean, pure, and trustworthy. Trustworthy, honest people should stick to parades, ponies and picnics.

[Danger Mouse]

Ted Kennedy has done some bad things. I do not excuse them.

They were bad things. He's a good senator, but that's where he should stay.

[Taverner]

30. Good luck finding an honest politician

Hell, even Saint Kucinich has done some bad things.

[Danger Mouse]

32. Kucinich is no saint to me.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

128. He lied to

his wife.

He lied to the American people.

He would have handed the presidency to McCain had he been the nominee. It isn't just an affair, it would have put the Democratic Party in a horrible, unwinable situation.

And when someone emails me every single day for several months and asks for MY fucking support when I do not have a tree growing hundred dollar bills in my yard, well, they can go and fuck themselves because I want all my money back because I feel like a fool and I do not like being made a fool of.

That is why it is MY fucking business. It is My business when he got MY money involved in his campaign and he knew damn good and well that he had stuck his wanker where it did not belong.

It is about integrity.

I loved John Edwards because I found him very promising. Now I am just pissed off at him for making very poor choices and placing our party at risk. He has fucked over his own political career. He will have to go back to being a very good attorney.

[TZ]

145. You don't think Obama has ever lied to the people?

Really? I'm sorry but there are NO politician that hasn't lied to the public about something. Pretty much you have to, if you wanna get elected.
Some of Obama's skeletons have been outed but I have no doubt there is plenty of stuff about him that we don't know.
To think that Edwards is any different than ANY of them, is naive at best.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

166. I think

you missed the point of my post.

Maybe reading it again would help.

[TZ]

12. Honesty, trustworthy and politician don't go together

Call me a cynic, but I don't really think there are ANY politician who hasn't done his/her share of lying and cheating.
But its the ones who go on the most about their honesty and then get caught that catch my ire (Like Spitzer who publically pontificated about prostitutions yet, had no qualms about being with one)

[Danger Mouse]

18. And Edwards was always parading his family out there.

That family that he betrayed just to get his dick wet.
I'm sorry, I've lost all respect for him.

[Whisp]

113. the hypocrisy is what gets under my craw....

take for example his being against same sex marriage. ooooh, the sanctity! of marriage! between a man and a woman can't be compromised!. etc., yada.

according to John, marriage is only meant between a man and a woman (or 2 or 3).

feh.

[Taverner]

22. Yes, Spitzer is a totally different case

His crime was hypocrisy

Edwards is just having a loose cannon (metaphorically speaking)

[Eurobabe]

118. thank you

:thumbsup:

America ISN'T Europe, and it's high time people realize that.

[Zavulon]

9. To you

It's a question of character to me, and a person who cheats on his cancer-survivor wife after she worked so tirelessly and sacrificed so much to help his campaign has none. Go ahead and excuse him or think it's only about sex if you want, though.

As for your last question, I never said anything of the kind, but reactionary off-target questions like yours seem to be the norm. Chances are that if I'm running a company I've already got some cheaters, some drug users, even some criminals with fake identities that passed background investigations. That doesn't mean that I'll hire anyone KNOWING they're guilty of such things.

I wonder how Elizabeth, who you seem to be concerned with, would react knowing so many people on DU think what happened is, as you say, "irrelevant."

[Taverner]

16. It's RELEVANT to Elizabeth. It's RELEVANT to John. It is NOT RELEVANT to us.

Are you a member of the Edwards' family? No? Then it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!

[Zavulon]

24. Oh, okay, tell me how I should feel, then.

Please, give me a few statements I can use in public to sound as enlightened as you. Since I'm not capable of thinking of Elizabeth without being mad at John and you are, I need some quotes. That last one you gave me is, of course, unequivocal proof that I have no right whatsoever to be pissed off, but I don't think I can be convincing with just that one.

Tell me what to say and how to feel. Your guidance is magnificent and invaluable.

(Bows to you, cursing the fact that I'm not wearing a hat I can take off during this gesture of admiration)

[Gormy Cuss]

15. It IS relevant. It shouldn't be.

As to whether your employer can snoop into your private life, bet that it's done particularly for CEO positions. I can imagine a day not too far down the road when many applicants have a morality check as part of pre-employment screening -- it's only a small step from the needlessly invasive background checks done now.

I understand why Edwards supporters are upset at this revelation. The rest of us, meh. My feeling is that I'd prefer not to know and let the Edwards handle it between themselves.

I'd also prefer that when a politician is caught with his/her hand in the cookie jar that s/he admits it but I'm not holding my breath.

[Kali]

55. I'm with you.

I'm disappointed, of course. I still have a touch of idealism left and can be prone to 'hero worship' as much as anybody but I am also and adult and I realize politicians are by definition slippery critters and beyond that human. We all make mistakes.

It is handling the mistakes that really speak to character.

[triguy46]

139. No, but honesty should be. I don't care if he had an affair...

its his business. But he misrepresented himself. I'd feel the same if he were found to be lying about something else. If you will lie to your wife about such things, then what else? His "I didn't love her" and "my wife was in remission" are the definition of lame.

Other than that, what's the beer of the evening??:toast:

[davsand]

5. Seems like it is ALL about dirty laundry any more.

I'm gonna sound like some old geezer telling everybody how it USED to be, but it just seems like the entire election or even the political process has become a matter of raking up dirt and gloating over it. DU is no exception to that, and THAT saddens me the most.

Edwards is out of the race. Bless his heart (and I do mean that) he's been out of this race for a while now, and people are STILL hounding him, his family, and evidently, even people he's ever had any contact with. My guess is that most of the people hounding the Edwards family probably have a skeleton or two of their own--yet they persist in hunting him in the guise of "news."

WHEN did running for office become a moral purity race? It amazes hell out of me that ANYBODY ever runs for office in this kind of atmosphere.



Laura

[Mad_Dem_X]

7. AMEN!

Some of the stuff I read on this site just makes me sick. And I'm talking about the posts, not necessarily the stories themselves.

[Midlodemocrat]

8. I'm just disappointed in him.

And sad for Elizabeth. No judgment. It's not my marriage.

[Taverner]

11. OK - that I can buy

I'm dissapointed that he made such a dumb blunder, when he was on the short list for the Obama admin. Granted, I'm a guy, and I understand that you don't always think clearly when all that blood rushes elsewhere. But all it takes is one second to realize the answer, my friend, is right in your hand.

[MorningGlow]

13. Me too, Taverner

Thank you for posting this. It really is absolutely NONE of our business. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. If I could get up the nerve, I'd start a thread in GD asking how many people on DU have had affairs and yet are acting all self-righteous about this.

[PeaceNikki]

17. Had he won the nomination, it would have destroyed his campaign.

Like it or not, it would have. Agree that it should or not, it would have. The media is obsessed with it now, imagine if he were the nominee. His private indiscretions would have thrown the whole election in the shitter.

[Taverner]

28. Very true, but he didn't even win 20%

[PeaceNikki]

34. There are some people who are angry that he risked it.

He knew he fucked around between 2004 and 2008, yet he took a stab at the nomination. He's not an idiot, he HAD to know this would come out eventually, especially if he'd won. That's a very selfish risk after a very selfish act given the political climate and tabloid culture that we face in 2008.

[Taverner]

38. True, but have you ever been on a campaign?

I have as a staffer intern back in college

Its draining, draining work. If you have a significant other, kiss them goodbye. The only time you will see them is in staged photo ops. Want to talk dirty to the wife/husband in the hotel room? Too bad, she or he is just as busy as you. You travel from town to town, saying the same shit over and over again, smiling constantly. You have groupies, but you know they are dangerous. You have staffers who are just as tired and horny as you. Sometimes, things just happen. There is a phenomenon called 'campaign sex.' They touched on it in the Travolta movie "Primary Colors." Its mostly among the staffers but often folks will hook up with each other to blow off steam. Call it dishonest or stupid, I call it human nature.

[PeaceNikki]

45. I'm not shaking my finger at him for the act.

Only in risking a very important election knowing full well that this could very well ruin it.

I get the human nature part of it. I really do. And I agree that personal indiscretions of this nature happen and that it SHOULDN'T be as big of a factor and media frenzy as it is. We all saw what happened in the last 2 elections and how easily it can be stolen as it slips through our fingers. This is not an election cycle where we could have weathered this storm.

[MicaelS]

89. This just proves one thing

It all about politics, and thus power and access to that power, first, last and always. Just because a subset of Americans live, eat, sleep and breath politics to the extent of all else, (in other words they are political junkies...yeah I said that and I meant it all that implies) the rest of Americans that do not share that viewpoint. BOTH Edwards actions proves that some people, and both Clintons are perfect examples, will sacrifice everything to gain political power. They will lie and cheat to gain and keep that power. The old adage "the ends justifies the means" applies to these people. There is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to access to power. Democrats who do this are no different from Republicans, no matter how noble they might pretend they are, who delude themselves "they are doing it for the people". So you are damn right those of us who are disgusted by that attitude are going to take very opportunity to call out those who have that mindset and engage in that behavior.

[Taverner]

107. I don't think it proves that at all, but go ahead and think that

[triguy46]

140. So the best answer is to hook up and get laid.

Being in a campaign is one of infinite high stress occupations. It is not an excuse and does not justify the action.

[MilesColtrane]

20. You opened with the qualifier, "if Edwards wasn't running for office".

But, he did, and I supported him.

He played me, therefore I have every right to express my opinion on his arrogance and deceit.

[Deja Q]

132. Precisely.

[SacredCow]

26. It's no big shock at the reactions here and elsewhere...

News = Entertainment. Sad, but true. The media outlets are just pushing the stories that people want to hear so they can point to their Nielson ratings and charge out the wazoo for their advertising time.

It's the business of John, Elizabeth, and whatever-her-name-is (I honestly have no idea). Period.

[KG]

36. i'm not. it's a hoot!

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

37. I am pretty sure that is one of the reasons message boards were invented

So people could indulge their holy-than-thou impulses.:evilgrin:

[Taverner]

39. Aye true that

As well as faux moral outrage

[NJmaverick]

42. Imagine the hail of rocks

had Jesus made his famous "he with out sin cast the first stone" speech on the web.

[RetroLounge]

40. Don't bother.

It's the FAUX Outrage Keyboard warrior brigade 101 who have to make sure everyone in the world knows how outraged they are...

I notice the same assholes who tore our dems apart in the primary if we weren't part of their cult are now doing it again.

I just put the oh-so-righteous-wingers on ignore.

RL

[Danger Mouse]

43. Oh whatever. We're allowed to be angry at him.

[RetroLounge]

48. Oh, so you recognize yourself?

Good.

RL

[Danger Mouse]

78. No...just that some of us are legitimately disappointed and pissed off..

and it's lame that some people seem to think they understand our feelings and motives so well.

[RetroLounge]

84. .

eom

RL

[Danger Mouse]

87. what?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

95. why? was he married to you? should we all be mad at you if you cheat on your gf

just because we know you and like you?

[Danger Mouse]

123. well, if that were to happen (i don't have a gf right now)

and you knew about it, i wouldn't blame you for being disappointed/mad at me, i guess.
it's the lying, in the end, that bothers me, along with the risk he put our party in by running even though he KNEW this would come back to haunt him.
he's not a stupid man but he sure did something stupid.
whatever. i'm honestly sick of arguing about this.

[Taverner]

44. Righteous Wingers! I like that!

[RetroLounge]

62. Feel free to use it.

:hi:

RL

[Zuiderelle]

46. Well that's bullshit. Edwards knew full well that this information coming out would destroy him

politically, and yet he continued to risk himself, his family and all of us, for what? He's a smart man. I don't condemn him for the affair, but I certainly do blame him for risking our country's future. He could have made this "mistake" with a woman he claims he doesn't even love, and he could have made amends with his wife, and he could have stayed the FUCK OUT of the presidential race, and I wouldn't have one bad thing to say about him. He's disappointed a lot of people by lying about this. Not just lying, but continuing to run for president despite the absolute knowledge that this lie coming out would have ruined his chances of our having a democrat for President, if he had won the nomination.

We all make mistakes, but not many of us are trying to save this country from the disaster of Bush by becoming the President. He should have bowed out and helped someone else's campaign, if he really cared about this country and the things he says he believes in.

[RetroLounge]

50. This is what, your 1000th post about edwards now?

Well, goody for you. You're outraged. We get it.

:eyes:

RL

[Zuiderelle]

51. No, this is about my sixth or seventh post about Edwards.

Am I not supposed to respond to people saying that it's faux outrage? Yes, I am outraged. And it's not faux. Roll your eyes all you like.

Edit... it's my eleventh post about Edwards. Is there a maximum I'm allowed on this subject? I've definitely posted over my maximum on gay marriage. I guess I better stop posting about stuff I feel strongly about.

[RetroLounge]

57. Well, since his sex-life is morally your business

please continue...

...continue sounding like every right-winger did about Clinton for 8 years.

:eyes:

RL

[Zuiderelle]

59. I never said it was morally my business. But go ahead and continue ignoring what I said.

[RetroLounge]

61. that's easy to do...

EOM

RL

[Zuiderelle]

63. Wow, Retrolounge. I thought you were an ok guy.

I'm a little surprised that you don't even have the grace to read what I'm saying. I don't judge him for the affair. I am disappointed that he took the risk of losing this race for us by continuing to run despite knowing that there was this information that could come out about him.

And I'm disappointed in you that you can just blow me off like that. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since you started out calling everyone of us who is disappointed in him assholes. Lesson learned.

[RetroLounge]

69. It's not you or what your saying

I read it. I get it.

It's just overload from the whole DU blowing up over this.

Sorry. My apologies.

RL

[Zuiderelle]

70. Thanks for that.

I appreciate it.

I'm a bit weary of it all too.

:pals:

[RetroLounge]

73. I didn't mean to make it personal, it's not

:hug:

RL

[redqueen]

97. Well you did... and others still are.

You know what.... fuck it.

Fuck this place.

[RetroLounge]

99. Well, you'll notice I was talking to someone else.

But if that causes you to "Fuck This Place" then you really need to take a break.

RL

[Rabrrrrrr]

54. Edwards having an affair has put us at risk? OH MY GOD!! IT'S 9-11 ALL OVER AGAIN - WITH A PENIS!!!!

OMG!!!! OMG!!!!!!

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously - OMG!!! It's totally worse than flying planes into buildings.

We are all so seriously at risk now. I'm moving into my bomb shelter until this particular 9-11 ALL OVER AGAIN - WITH A PENIS!!!!!! is finally over and we're all safe again.

:eyes:

[Zuiderelle]

56. LOL! Funny. You really don't think that if he was our nominee that this would affect the race?

Seriously?

Whatever.

[Rabrrrrrr]

60. Interesting logic - you say that we're all at risk now. I criticize that view.

So you respond with a total non sequitor.

Okay, then, let me answer with a total non sequitor that makes as much sense as your response - "Do you still think firetrucks would be a good thing if they were atom bombs? Huh? What would you think about firetrucks then?"

:eyes:

[Zuiderelle]

65. No, I did not say that. I said that he risked it at the time, by continuing to run for president

Where did I say that we are at risk now? I am VERY thankful that he is not our nominee now, or we would be at risk.

It's fucking insane how people just read every other fucking word and add their own to what other people write. Wow.

[Rabrrrrrr]

66. You said, in post 46, "yet he continued to risk himself, his family and all of us"

So, there ya go.

[Zuiderelle]

68. Yes, throughout the PRIMARIES, he continued until he lost.

Where did he stop? You tell me?

So, there ya go.

[Rabrrrrrr]

71. Looks like he stopped when he fucking lost, don't it? Why do I need to tell you?

You seem to be the one who knows all about this shit. Stop doing what? Running for president? Stop lying? Stop having an affair? Stop what?

And you still have not addressed how his actions have put us all at risk; or, as you are seeming to say now, *had* put us all at risk, but apparently isn't putting us at risk now.

I find bizarre logic to be fascinating, and so have been looking forward to your answer with much giddy anticipation.

[Zuiderelle]

74. They *DID* put us at risk at the time. *IF* he had won the nomination, which I guess he *WANTED* to

do, then he was being irresponsible. Clear now? I suppose I'm not supposed to be disappointed in someone I highly respected for doing something I consider VERY risky and irresponsible. I'm disappointed in him. Period. It's really not bizarre at all. But I do find you not understanding my disappointment quite bizarre.

I look forward to the 75% of your posts that I do find amusing. Ciao.

[Rabrrrrrr]

76. Oh, I understand the disappointment just fine. I feel it, too.

What I disagree with is the hyperventilating that he has somehow put "us" at "risk", or that he did something that was irresponsible to "us".

Had he been the nominee, he could very well have risked *losing the election*, but that would only be if the Democrats turned on him (as people such as you are doing now) instead of standing together in front of the world and saying "HE'S ALREADY CLEARED IT WITH HIS WIFE AND MADE AMENDS WITH HER IN THIS PURELY PRIVATE SITUATION SO SHUT THE FUCKING FUCK UP!!!!" and maybe led the country into some kind of sexual maturity where private things are left private - but to say that he put US at risk is pure undifferentiated hyperemotionalism.

[Zuiderelle]

81. I would not have turned on him. But many others would have.

And many undecided people would have. Just as they did Clinton. Which, just in case you're curious, I never did. It's not hyperemotionalism at all, to remember what happened to Clinton and to be able to draw the reasonable conclusions that this affair would have put Edwards' candidacy at risk.

We could all yell as much as we want, like I did when I yelled "IT'S JUST A FUCKING BLOW JOB" but it wouldn't change the fact that he took the risk, with full knowledge of what could happen.

[Joe Fields]

173. Being liberal or progressive doesn't mean you have to accept

being lied to and played. People here have more of a right to be angry over this, than you feel you have a right to be angry over the fact that they are angry.

Righteousness has nothing to do with it. Maybe you should learn and understand the facts, as well as the ramifications of his actions before you begin condemning people over their disappointment.

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. And it's a private matter that was SETTLED TWO FUCKING YEARS AGO.

Son of a bitch, people, let it die.

[cwydro]

178. Bullshit on the two fucking years ago.

It is obvious to anyone with a brain that he is still seeing this woman (5 hours in a hotel room for a meeting???!!) and that he is supporting her with some big bucks. his finanace manager from the campaign is paying her money. WHY?

Mr.- I can't support gay marriage - can go take a hike in my opinion.

[Texasgal]

52. It's only a private matter

if you are a democrat...

If you are a Republican that gets caught the "private matter" makes no difference. It'll be sung from the roof tops.

Hypocricy is what ticks me off.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

53. Fallen idols force the "holier-than-thou assholes" to...

confront their "caverns of emptiness.
The fuckers are no better than Republicans!

---------------------------------------------
"Idols make us feel important . . . Our idols give us a larger identity; allowing us to define ourselves through the group . . . And our idols, if we do not let go, lead to spiritual death, a life so devoid of meaning that only slavish devotion to the idol keeps us from having to face our caverns of emptiness,"
--Chris Hedges

[Rabrrrrrr]

64. That quote is perfect. Perfect truth, perfectly said.

I so often think of only the brain dead herd-mentality authority-lovin' rightwingers as falling into the trap of ignorant hero worship, but the liberal, thinking side of humanity also has its own awful addiction to stupidity and undeveloped psychology.

[RetroLounge]

72. Perfect Quote

:hi:

RL

[datasuspect]

135. there are way too many small, empty, scared people out there.

and they like to cluster in groups.

THAT'S what scares me.

[Joe Fields]

175. Maybe you would care to expand on what your remark has to do

with the Edwards affair?

[Joe Fields]

174. Only one problem with that quote.

I idolize no one, and I never supported Edwards, but I recognize the right of Democrats and Americans to be interested about it, discuss it, get pissed about it, feel disappointed about it and anything else they wish to do with the story, because it IS FUCKING news. It's not a private matter. He and his wife CHOSE a public life. They can't have it both ways. Not here in America, and in case you forgot, he did run for Democratic nominee of the Presidency. What part of this don't you understand that is newsworthy?

I'll tell you who are no better than the republicans, and that is the "closed ranks" mindset of brain dead apologists who are willing to allow whatever a candidate or nominee does, just because the politician is a member of the same club. That is republican mindset. Can you wrap your brain around it? Or do you need to knock some of the rust off first?

[Fox Mulder]

67. I totally agree.

[SoxFan]

75. The horizontal mambo isn't the issue

It's lying about it, and, even more so, slipping her hush money to keep quiet. That's just plain sleazy.

[HEyHEY]

77. You yanks really do spend too much time on politician's private lives

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. It's fucking insane, isn't it? I was talking with a friend yesterday,

and we totally agreed that in almost any other civilized country - say, Canada or Europe or Japan - this would be a total non-issue. A complete yawner. And that, in fact, we're really weird in this country for both caring about it, AND for having so many politicians who seemingly DON'T engage in affairs and hanky panky.

[HEyHEY]

86. Up here, recently, there was an issue about a Girlfriend of an MP - he resigned

But the only reason it was an issue was because it came out she had gang ties and he was the minister of foreign affairs and the fucking reject actually LEFT classified documents related to national security at her house!

[Fire Walk With Me]

105. Well, at least the ones who aren't destroying the country...

Astonishing, isn't it? Absolutely astonishing.

[Rabrrrrrr]

119. Ain't that the truth? Even amongst the liberal literati, there's more outrage

about who Edwards has sex with than there is about kids being blown up in Iraq. Or banks failing. Or predatory lending. Or those places that let poor borrow money on their paychecks or car titles for 250% interest. And so on.

Of all the issues facing the world today, it's only sexually immature America that puts more outrage into fucking than into anything else.

[Fire Walk With Me]

126. America is absolutely obsessed with fucking.

Sadly, moreso with the normal form than with the "fucking over" form. Hence the difference between Edwards and Bush, and our different levels of outrage.

Well said.

[Rabrrrrrr]

131. Good way to put it! We're totally willing to accept all the metaphorical fucking that creative minds

can come up with, but real fucking spins us out of control.

[Fire Walk With Me]

134. Now now. Destruction is not creativity. That's an oxymoron.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zuiderelle]

82. Damn.

I could have saved so much trouble and just said that. :thumbsup:

[Left Is Write]

85. Some people will continue to insist it's about sex...

and that those who are angry are simply uptight, repressed, pucker-lipped, Puritanical, self-righteous finger-waggers.

Yes, despite numerous explanations that much of the anger stems from the blatant, shockingly poor judgment and foolish risk-taking displayed by John Edwards, whom many of us supported as our candidate of choice for the presidency, there will be those who continue to insist it's about the sex.

PelosiFan said it very well upthread: He took a very foolish risk, knowing full well what could happen. Perhaps candidates' private lives shouldn't matter, but the fact is that in this current climate, such things do matter, and to knowingly place the party's chances for the White House in jeopardy shows an appalling lack of judgment.

I also agree with you that this should not have been brought to the Lounge, but here it is.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

96. a lot of people are far more mad that he cheated, not the political risks

also if we as a country didnt really care about a politicians married life, there would be no political risk

[Zuiderelle]

100. Most of what I've seen are people who are mad at him for risking the race

and lying about the affair. That includes me.

Yeah, we shouldn't care about a politician's personal life, but unfortunately, we live in a country that DOES seem to care. And we all know what happened to Clinton, and how such information would be used against our candidate. I'm disappointed in someone who lied about something that he knew could destroy him, and COULD HAVE ultimately destroyed our chances to get the REAL liars and assholes and cheaters out of power.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

102. i see a lot of judgment about his being a bad husband and very little

that he risked the elections. since he is not the nominee its still too much hue and cry.

you've seen cheating threads on du before. one's that dont involve a presidential candidate. same outrage.


chk this entire thread out... i read a few responses then got bored

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3757072

[Zuiderelle]

111. I still don't think that's the reason most of us are disappointed.

Even those of us that think that cheating is a bad thing (and I'm one of them) when one is in a monogamous relationship, are clear about why this situation is disappointing. I would be disappointed in him, and I would also think he was a major asshole for doing what he did, just by itself. But it wouldn't change how I personally felt about him as a candidate. The problem is that he understood the risk he was taking, and he understood the damage that people can do to candidates (his own running mate was swift-boated out of winning for absolutely nothing last time... what do you think would have happened with REAL DIRT like this). We all know that he would have been fried for this. And he HAD to have known that as well. That's the issue.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

115. i think that disappointed is legitimate but outrages is excessive

lots and lots of people are outraged. he made 2 stupid, careless and selfish decisions (one to cheat, the other to run in the presidential elections) but that by itself doesn't make him a piece of shit etc

i am not saying that no one has the right to feel disappointed but the level of outrage (including the fact that DU has the most number of threads on edwards) is unwarranted

there is a lot of holier than thou nonsense

[WildEyedLiberal]

158. Well, since you linked to my post...

Yes, I think cheating is wrong, and I'm not afraid to say that. I think it's grossly unfair to say that my belief that cheating is wrong makes me "holier than thou" and I do quite resent it. EVERYONE besides the most strictly postmodern relativists has a moral code of conduct, not just preachy rightwingers. I would imagine, for example, that you think illegal wars are wrong. You think discrimination is wrong. You think stealing is wrong. Does that make you "holier than thou," because you have professed a moral judgment on other humans' behavior? Are moral judgments okay as long as the behavior we're judging isn't sexual? So all bets are off when it comes to adult sexual intercourse? (And before you say "they consented," I'd like to remind everyone that a very, very important part of this equation DID NOT consent, and that's WHY it bothers me.) I truly don't get this aggressive backlash against people who say "you know what, it's wrong to lie to and betray your spouse."

Lots of things are wrong. "Immoral," if you will. It's laughable to pretend that only conservatives make moral judgments - why the hell would we bother to be Democrats and oppose Bush so vociferously if we didn't think his policies were grossly immoral? YES, before anyone stops reading here and writes me an inane reply, I realize there is a vast degree of magnitude between killing millions of Iraqis and having an affair. But the POINT is that we DO make moral judgments. Every day. And maybe some people here truly don't think an action can be "immoral" unless someone dies as a result, but I doubt that's the case for most people. I certainly hope I'm not the only person on this entire website who thinks it is wrong to commit adultery.

I never "hero worshiped" Edwards. I never had very strong feelings about him one way or another, to be honest. If he had been the nominee, I'd have happily voted for him. And you know what? I would have defended him in public if this had come out, because I would have wanted him to win. NO, this should never have come out in the news, and NO, it has no bearing on his (or anyone else's) ability to govern. That doesn't mean that I have to forfeit the right to think that what he did was shitty and wrong.

[Left Is Write]

129. I know, and in an ideal world, we wouldn't care.

It's not an ideal world, however, and Edwards is no dummy. He knew the kind of risk he was taking in this critical election cycle, and I think it's fair to be angry over it. That he repeatedly lied about it only compounded the problem.

[JCMach1]

88. Exactly... stop the tabloid navel gazing and hair-tearing

Politicians are human beings so get over it already.

I agree with the OP completely.

[redqueen]

90. "If Edwards wasn't running for office, ..."

*ahem*

[skooooo]

91. yuck i come to the lounge to avoid this crap

[geomon666]

92. It is none of our business.

But the guy is still a piece of shit.

[MrScorpio]

93. I dig you, Tav

I can't say that I didn't try

[La Lioness Priyanka]

94. you will never get through to the heads of those who feel cheated on by edwards

the level of hero worshiping and personality worshiping instead of voting for politicians for their policy seems to be the downfall of america

[Haole Girl]

98. I think you have a point there

You really do.

[Taverner]

103. Yep - I think LP said it all

Her point stands the tallest of all here...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

106. tee hee hee.... that's ironic... cos i bet i am the shortest of everyone here

:rofl:

[Haole Girl]

108. Well...

I wouldn't count on that. :blush:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

110. i am five feeting nothing

[Haole Girl]

112. You *are* the shortest!

I'm 5'1" tall (or short). Hope you don't mind me saying this, but it's sort of nice to know someone is shorter than I am who is not over 90 years of age! :hug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

117. i dont mind being the shortest and glad it makes you happy

:bounce:

[Haole Girl]

120. You're really something, you know that?!

:hug:

Now I better get off this computer and rest this weary body of mine.

[Zuiderelle]

104. I'm surprised that you don't get it. I don't hero worship anyone, least of all Edwards.

But I am disappointed in a man who was willing to risk so much when he knew what the cost of lying and hiding this affair could be. No, it shouldn't be the way it is here in this judgmental, puritanical country. But most of us here who are disappointed in Edwards, are not coming at it from a judgmental or puritanical place. We are coming at it from a practical place, knowing what those who come at it from a judgmental and puritanical place (and simply from a opportunistic place in the case of most Republicans) would do with such information. Edwards would be a goner now if he were the nominee. Edwards would have lost the race for us because of this if he were the nominee. Edwards should never have run for president. If he chose not to run because of this, THEN I would have the utmost respect for him, despite whatever personal feelings I have about loyalty and monogamy.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

109. i think most of you who are upset that he risked the election

aren't writing 500 threads about how awful cheating is.

seriously i am disappointed in him too.. for risking the election and for being a hypocrite (i still remember his moral ambivalence toward gays) however disappointed and outraged is a little different

[Zuiderelle]

114. I'll give you that. I'm not outraged. I'm disappointed.

And... ok, I've not read all the cheating threads. But really, it doesn't make that much difference to me. I feel very strongly about cheating too. I've been hurt by too many people who've cheated on me to not feel strongly about it.

Even so, I don't judge him for what he did in that regard. But I do judge him for taking the risk of our losing this election.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

116. i did yesterday and it was very disappointing to me

it made me realize how many adults still hero worship their politicians. its not a good way to vote.

ofcourse one should be disappointed. any bad news at this time is disappointing but edwards is a human being. just like clinton was.

[Zuiderelle]

125. Funny thing is...

Threads like this are more outraged than the outrage. And they're lumping in people who are just disappointed.

Now, I'm hiding all the threads about Edwards and/or cheating, and I'm suddenly so much more at peace.

[sammythecat]

122. Well said.

I agree with all you said.

We all know how important this election is, and there is no doubt that if Edwards was our nominee a scandal like this, in this country, would all but hand McCain the presidency. Perhaps it shouldn't have anything to do with his qualification for president, but we know, and he knew, that it does. He, quite literally, put us all at serious risk of another Republican administration. He had no right to make that gamble. At best, it was foolish and irresponsible. At best.

[SarahB]

136. yep

:thumbsup:

[cwydro]

179. I love you Pri

but his stand on gay marriage and HIS holier than thou stance makes him fair game. Plus I really want to know about the money.

DU jumps all over hypocritical Repugs. No exception for Johnny boy.

[Ellen Forradalom]

121. Where is our compassion?

There but for the grace of God, folks.

[SarahB]

137. Most people are very simplistic about human emotion and sexuality

when it comes to other people. It's easy to judge other's relationships and actions. :(

[Ellen Forradalom]

138. I am repelled by the grandstanding

of those who shout from the rooftops that they would NEVER do such a thing, and am instantly suspicious of their motives in doing so.

[Rabrrrrrr]

150. Interesting how many people are crying "NEVER!" in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8000001

And the number of people who don't see how wrong it is to claim that (and not just in relation to having an affair, but the wrongness of saying "I will never..." whatever it is).

[Ellen Forradalom]

157. To them I say

Where's your crystal ball? Let's tally things up at the end of life.

Shouting "I would NEVER do that" is just a form of whistling past the graveyard. Acknowledge your own humanity and realize you have many mistakes yet to make.

[Rabrrrrrr]

159. "Whistling past the graveyard" - lovely phrase!

I want to keep that one.

Did you make it up, or is it one of those old-time kind of phrases? I've never heard it.

[Ellen Forradalom]

163. It's quite old-timey

WHISTLING IN THE DARK -- "Be cheerful or optimistic in a situation that doesn't warrant cheer or optimism. It is a great temptation to try to cheer oneself up by whistling or singing in a dark and lonely place...The notion that one should whistle in difficult circumstances to show that one is not concerned or frightened can be found in Robert Blair's 'The Grave' (1742): 'The Schoolboy...Whistling aloud to bear his Courage up." From "Dictionary of Cliches" by James Rogers (Wings Books, Originally New York: Facts on File Publications, 1985). (http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/32/messages/350.html)

I say it applies here in the sense of false bravado.

[Rabrrrrrr]

165. It applies perfectly! Wonderful!

I can't believe I've never heard that phrase before, but I am sure to be using it from now on.

I love it!

[Whisp]

124. don't get so perturbed!

I'm sure if you decided to stray (if that is an option for you I dunno) about 99.999999999999999999% of th world wouldn't care or know. just the people closest to you.

so pork away. guiltessly.
:P

but please don't try to paint those who disagree as some stodgy throwbacks or something.

I think the world needs more honesty and truth and loyalty, rather than less, now more than ever .

[Arugula Latte]

127. For a lot of us it's not the affair itself, it's that he jeopardized the party.

If he'd been the nominee, and this blew up in his face ... hellllooo, president McCain. Even if we don't care about a personal, private matter, millions of Americans do, and we all know the media just loves to talk about this stuff. I know it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is. Edwards knew that, and yet he asked us to nominate him anyway. That is unforgivable, IMO. Also, it wasn't like this was an "ancient history" affair or a youthful indiscretion. It was relatively recent, and maybe even still going on when he started running.

[WinkyDink]

130. Good thing you didn't start another thread on the topic!

[skygazer]

141. For me, it's not the affair itself - it's the poor judgment

I don't expect politicians to be perfect but I do want those in charge of things to have good judgment and some self-control. Those things, to me, are indicative of the thoughtful and careful approach to complex issues that I'd like to see in a leader.

To embark on an affair of this sort, when you're aware of how difficult it is to keep something like that secret, when you know what sort of negative impact it can have on your own candidacy and the hopes of your party (whether we like it or not), is a matter of poor judgment.

Do you really feel that shortsightedness is a good quality for a leader to have?

[amitten]

142. Agreed. This kind of stuff should never be made public. n/t

[Deja Q]

155. Ideally, this kind of stuff should never happen in the first place.

[CBHagman]

146. I'm with you, Taverner.

I had planned to vote for Edwards in the primary, but by that particular Tuesday the race had narrowed to two candidates.

Since he's neither a candidate nor an elected official, I am appalled that The New York Times and The Washington Post put the story on page 1 above the fold, and don't get me started on bleeping CNN (though some of the individual Americans interviewed echoed your thoughts and mine).

Of course I'm disappointed in him, but I feel worse for his wife and children. And on top of that, I hate how the media practically wet its collective pants with joy over the prospect of a sex scandal to cover.

Just for those bastards in the media, here comes Peter Bruntnell with "Tabloid Reporter."

http://www.last.fm/music/Peter+Bruntnell/_/Tabloid+Reporter?autostart

Don't want to visit you at your house.
Don't want to hear more from you now.
Take all your reasons for living this way
And with them I'd bury you without a trace.

Tabloid reporter, you're out of line.
You have no shame, you've got no right.
You try to ruin good people's lives.
Wish you a long, miserable life.

Blindness and hate's not easy to justify,
But in your case exception is made.

There's no salvation that you can take.
You got it coming, make no mistake.
You try to ruin good people's lives.
Wish you a long, miserable life.

[Ewellian]

147. I may have a problem with

the $114,000 he paid to his mistress from his "One America Committee." Supposedly she had little film experience before Edward's hired her to travel with him and make documentaries. From what I can gather from news articles they met winter 2006, she formed her film company in the spring 2006 and her first check from Edwards was July 5, 2006. Maybe she made $114,000 worth of documentaries and was very good at it, but I do think the public has a right to question it.

[SteppingRazor]

148. There's a flip side to that though -- you could also be sick of all the hypocrisy...

whenever a Republican does something like, say, hire hookers and wear diapers, we're all over it here. But a Democrat cheats on his wife, and it's suddenly a personal matter.

I'm not saying what's right and what's wrong here. I'm just saying that I can see both sides.

[Biscottiii]

149. Thank You for a refreshing OP! I've been getting rather nausious at all the holier-than-thou crap

Personally, I'm retired & living on a fixed income, don't have much money to donate. Still, I donated to Edwards' campaign. Not a lot, but more than I've donated to any other candidate in my life. Okay, people are human, stuff happens and I'm sorry for the pain and so very public humiliation fallout that's landing on his family as well as the baby who will now be a 'curiosity' media-magnet like some critter in a zoo (poor kid!) I kind of have to wonder, though, if the 'other woman' wasn't deliberately looking for a sperm donor, fooling around without birth control, maybe her biological clock was ticking and she's found Presidential material... but whatever.

For all the issues John and Elizabeth Edwards brought up to the table and to the debates, such as healthcare and poverty and jobs being outsourced - I feel like my campaign contributions to Edwards were STILL money well spent! Otherwise Obama and Clinton wouldn't have hardly bothered to address those issues in this eternal pursuit.

[nadine_mn]

154. Thank you for the post

I cannot imagine being Elizabeth and having my husband's betrayal on every news program and hearing idiots like O'Reilly pontificate about my marriage.

I have been married for 10 yrs... and we have lied to each other about liitle things and big things, fight and forgive. I love him and we work through it... but to have it out in the open for the media to discuss? Ick

And honestly I could care less who he sleeps with ... just not my business.

[XemaSab]

156. I think the affair is their business and not ours

but I do think he was REALLY dumb to run for president with that hanging out there. :shrug:

[MsTryska]

160. Umm..is Edwards running for something

that makes this news relevant at the moment?

Love him to pieces - don't really care about the indiscretions he and his wife have sorted out for a couple of years now. not my business.

[madinmaryland]

161. Doesn't this crap belong in GD or GD:Pffth??

:grr:

Stop peeing in teh lounge pool!!!

[Iggo]

162. Yep.

Git it outa here!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

164. Except Edwards WAS running for office.

And he, along with Hillary and Obama, had the best chances to become the nominee.

Had Edwards become the nominee, this news would have come out and destroyed our chances of taking back the White House. Yes, we can go on all day about "personal matters," etc., and that's fine, but too many people are confusing what they think of as private indiscretions with how the voting public would react.

We can mock the "sexual Puritans" all day, but the simple fact is that Edwards did two foolish things (cheating and running for office), that combined, would have sacrificed a Democratic victory on the altar of his own ego.

This isn't like FDR in the '40s, when the media would look the other way regarding his infidelity -- this is a 24/7 news cycle that will pick at everything a politician does, and someone like Edwards should have known the risk before attempting to run again. With all the time spent on Obama's many tangential connections to shady people, don't you think the media would have buried Edwards with the affair he was personally involved in?

EDIT: For the record, I was never an Edwards supporter, so I have no emotional investment in this.

[SarahB]

167. I find it unfortunate

that we live in a culture that ties sexuality so close to that of things that have nothing to do with sexuality. Unfortunately, Edwards was well aware of the reality of our culture when he chose to run for office. If he had been our nominee, he could have jeopardized our party's chances. That is my only issue. I know I have too many past skeletons in terms of how our culture perceives how a person "should" be and wouldn't jeopardize something important because of my own blind ambition.

The primal fact of the matter is that Edwards is a beautiful, intelligent man and I suppose the many people are DU who are far more honorable than I am would not be tempted, but as the whore, slut, and whatever the Hell the misogynist pigs and poorly identified feminists on DU would probably call me, if I would in the position of being alone with Mr. Edwards and opportunity presented itself, I'd have a hard time NOT going there and I can't say for sure what choice I'd make. No doubt my husband would say the same thing about another beautiful woman. Unlike most people, we're secure enough with ourselves and our relationship to be able to openly discuss a lot of things that most people don't. We both know we're capable of being tempted.

I WISH our culture was more pragmatic and realistic when it came to a lot of truths about human sexuality and long term relationships. We still live in la-la land though and bury our heads in the sand with high divorce rates and false hopes based on fairy tales stemming from culturally ingrained religious dogma and personal insecurity as opposed to truth and honesty.

[SPKrazy]

168. Is this the lounge? Hello?

this should be in GD:P

or GD

or somewhere besides the lounge

yeah, I know

I've posted political shit in here before too

but someone always points that out to me

so here I am :P

I really don't feel that what Edwards did or didn't do is even relevant to anything at this point

I also don't know that what a person does in their personal lives is relevant to their public life

nor do I think that we will ever find people who are "perfect" who are running for office

nor do I think people are perfect

well

ok

nuff said :D

[Odin2005]

169. Don't forget the "You like the Olympics? OMG you evil bastard" posts

My God, some DUers seem to think it is wrong to have any fun as long as there is anything bad going on in the world. :eyes:

[Lethe]

170. i have to agree on this

it's his private life....for some reason americans want their politicians to be some sort of chaste father figures or something.

Leave the guy alone. Edwards never said he was perfect. Most people have affairs in their life so quit being so hard on the guy. It's a fact of life. Nobody is perfect.

[bridgit]

171. Oh, I fully realize that some men actually read Playboy...for the interviews...

;) But were Edwards to have been *anywhere near* the presumptive dem presidential candidate and to then have had this sordid little tryst break free like the sick, dark bird it is; it would have utterly & completely BLOWN AWAY all dem chances for anything for years to come.

I have 'been elizabeth', she's a trooper as I was forced to be. It was not my doing or moral equivalent, but I had to frame it and carry on.

You may want it to just disappear, poof! - for the sake of political expediency; but it is a player's heart that tries to minimize it down and into something it was itself never intended to be.

It was a vane, narcissistic act of control, ego, and wanton, craven voyeurism. And it nearly took the entire Democratic Party down with it.

It is ultimately a valued lesson for new Dem candidates seeking office out there on the horizon...if you want to be alone consider becoming a hermit. Cause as a candidate for political office the mic is always open, the camera forever turns, and someone is always peering for whatever reason through the lens and right at you. So dummy up!

This ain't The Love Boat.

[TreasonousBastard]

172. I'm just sick of Edwards threads.

[MrScorpio]

176. Damn Skippy

I dig you, bro

[cwydro]

177. Edwards put his morality right out there by dissing gay marriage

and saying how "holier than thou" HE is.

... and then talking up his marriage to Elizabeth, how he cannot support gay marriage, how Bill Clinton was immoral. He said in his little "webisodes" that the floozy filmed, how he wanted America to know him just as he is.

OK, now we do.

I am sorry, but his constant references to himself as a moral, upstanding man, his position on gay marriage, etc. make him fair game.

And the fact that he is obviously STILL lying about the affair, the possibility that campaign funds were used to pay off this woman...THAT is news. He needs to come clean or this story will never die until every last ugly factoid is dug up.

Sorry, but I am from NC. NC is still living down Jesse Helms and for once in my life (to paraphrase Michelle Obama) I was proud of my state...and then this despicable prick wraps himself in the Bible to say he cannot support gay marriage - all the while cheating on his wife. He rants about Bill Clinton cheating. What an ass.

He made it our business.

Fuck him.