Convince me J.S. Bach isn't the greatest composer ever

[ALago1]

Go on, I dare you...

:)

[populistmom]

1. I'm not sure about that

"Greatest" is subjective, but I have heard from musicians that Bach is the most difficult to play.

[Dookus]

2. too tinkly...

I like a little bombast in my music. Ludwig van, baby!

[WillyBrandt]

3. Who wrote the Requiem? Not that bum Bach.

It was the Master Mozart.

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. Mozart's Requiem is CRAP

compared to Berlioz or Durufle or Penderecki's Polish Requiem (or my own requiem) or Faure or even, dare I say it, Verdi's.

Not that Mozart's isn't exceptional - it is. It might even be the best thing he wrote. But come on, requiems really need the romatic nd post-romantic sensibility to truly "pop" as requiems, in my opinion.

[ironflange]

48. Poppycock

Had Mighty Mo finished his Requiem, it would have been one for the ages. As it is, it's like the Venus de Milo or some of the Elgin Marbles, a fabulous, though broken, work of art. I've heard the Requiem performed using only what Mozart actually wrote, and I think that's the only way it should be done. Nobody would glue arms onto Venus, same goes for the Requiem.

[BeatleBoot]

4. Love Hungarian Dance #5

[I AM SPARTACUS]

5. I dunno...Crisco Johnny's making his move...

Heritage Foundation Patriotic Music Collection

[Burma Jones]

6. First, please define the Objective Criteria by which we will

measure greatest-ness.

I think he is among the three greatest, the other two being Mozart and Beethoven. If all you like is Baroque music, then you are probably roght as far as yout taste is concerned. My taste in Orchestral music stretches through the Romantic period.

[ALago1]

9. I realize...

...that there is a huge amount of room for individual tastes.

As the above posters have mentioned, some like different composers for different reasons.

I like Bach because he writes music that is inordinately complex yet still hangs together in a way that makes a piece a beautiful cohesive whole.

I get lost and frustrated listening to some of Mozart and Beethoven (yet not as much with Ludwig...) because they sometimes seem to go off on tangents that never amplify or give cohesiveness to the piece as a whole

[Blayde Starrfyre]

7. Pishaw

Duke Ellington. Bach couldn't rock like the Duke.

OK, maybe not, but he is the greatest American composer.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

20. Bach not only rocks, he swings!

Listen to the extremely lively interpretation (and at times mournful, but always sublime) of the Brandenburg Concertos by the Boston Baroque.
I can't prove (or disprove) Bach was the greatest. Impossible task, but he wrote music that was laden with rules and shown unending creativity within those rules.

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. And this musician will be so bold as to say, Bach invented jazz

centuries before jazz was invented.

Bach's music is very jazzy, and gorgeous and beautiful and SO much fun to perform.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

8. Is he Brian Wilson?

[ALago1]

17. I'm not hatin on Brian Wilson

But I don't think he's in the same league as the greats (Bach,Beethoven, Mozart, etc.)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

25. It's all perceptive. To me he is, but then I think 'Louie Louie'

is trancendental.

[Rabrrrrrr]

52. No, he's not. Bach understood music,

and did something creative and interesting with it.

Wilson *almost* did, but decided instead to be a pop surf "musician"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. His vocal writing is certainly amazing

I'm in a choir that will be doing the B Minor Mass in a few weeks, and the vocal parts are really complex and vocally challenging. I am impressed at how he was able to write these five-part fugues with instrumental accompaniment.

I'm also blown away by the St. Matthew Passion, and I hope to be able to sing it some day.

[pagerbear]

12. YES!

I think the B-minor and St. Matthew are the greatest accomplishments in western music. Well, that and Mozart's C-minor mass. And the Verdi Requiem. And....

[Snow]

34. And Rachmaninoff's Vespers,

and yes, I agree with the rest, as well. Have any of you sung Bach's Motets? There're 11 of them, they're beautiful, and they're some of the toughest singing I've ever done.

[ALago1]

13. Wow

I'm impressed that you are a member of a choir performing such works!

Congrats! :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. And I am increasingly glad to be a SECOND soprano

so that I don't have to spend all that time doing sixteenth-note runs above the treble clef like the first sopranos do. :-)

[ironflange]

30. I did it as a tenor. First tenor.

Yaaak! I still don't know how I did it! I only sing in church choir now, as a bass. Much more relaxing that way.

[ironflange]

16. I've sung the Mass, the Magnificat,

the Xmas Oratorio, and some motets and cantatas, and you ain't kidding they're challenging. Whew! Difficult, but very singable, too. Bach beats Beethoven in this respect, Beethoven is simply a bitch to sing. Then there's Verdi's Requiem, ahhhh that Joe Green could sure write for the voice.

[Snow]

35. Well, yeah, but the basses have to boom forth on the Tuba verum

and the daggone tuba is up front drowning us out. Verdi overdid the brass in some places, IMHO. But the Libera Me in Verdi's requiem is wonderful (and the confutatis if you're a soloist of bassly persuasion).

[ironflange]

39. Hmm, I've done it twice

Both times the tenors sang along at that spot, seemed to help a great deal.

[Snow]

57. That's an outstanding idea - that stretch is reasonably high in my

range, so the tenors can probably handle it no problem. Part of it is stage arrangment, too - the chorus is behind the orchestra; the tuba sits at the front of the stage, like behind the second violins....

[banana republican]

11. MOODY BLUES RULES

[ironflange]

14. Sorry, that distinction belongs to Beethoven

Nobody stirred the pot like Ludwig. Admit it, Bach may have perfected the Baroque style, but he never ever stepped outside it for even a millisecond. By this, I also consider Monteverdi to be greater than Bach.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. I love Monteverdi, too

I've said that it sounds as if he channeled the angels.

[ironflange]

19. He's probably my favorite

I've only ever sung a little of his stuff, alas. What litle bit there was was ecstacy, though, I still hum bits although it was 25 years ago.

[LastKnight]

18. I prefer Joseph Haydn nt

[BlackVelvetElvis]

21. Another Haydn fan?!?

Oh yes!!
What's your favorite piece?

[LastKnight]

23. the farewell symphony

probably not the most popular, but i just like the gradual fade out thing.

-LK

[BlackVelvetElvis]

27. Good one-one of mine too.

I have all 104 of his symphonies and am working on the rest.
I love the Cello concerto in C.

[LastKnight]

29. im currently up for the part of...

the last violin to fade out in hadyn's farewell, and i pretty much have it in the bag... only a highschool orchestra, not like its a big symphony, but still, its my favorite piece were playing this year.

-LK

[BlackVelvetElvis]

31. Good luck with it.

It's very effective in concert.

[LastKnight]

32. thanks, the 6 sharps are a beast though. nt

[ironflange]

45. I lived in Victoria, BC many years ago

The local symphony was in big money trouble, so for one concert they did the Farewell. It was great, except the conductor also left the stage at the very end, and the laughter drowned out the ending. No matter, it was a great show.

That symphony deserves fame not just for the ending, Haydn poured some of his very best Sturm und Drang into the whole thing.

Edit: The orchestra survived.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

50. Ouch.

I sincerely hope your orchestra does a great job on this sweet piece.

[ironflange]

24. I very much like Haydn, too

Favorite symphonies: 22, 26, 44, 46, 52, 70, 82, 102. Especially 44.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

33. All those are excellent choices

I had to refresh myself on a couple of those. "Oh yeah, that's a good one" again and again when I sampled them.
I have a video of Lenny Bernstein's "Young People's Concerts" and the orchestra plays the finale of 102 as the primo example of a musical joke. What fun!

[ironflange]

41. #70 is one of his most neato pieces

Bludgeoning opening, sinuous slow movt, galumphing minuet, and that weird contrapuntal minor-key finale. I really think Haydn doesn't get the respect he deserves.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

46. I'm listening to #70 now

great description, BTW.
I agree with your statement about J. Haydn not getting the respect he deserves.
It's amazing to me that Haydn was mostly self taught, with very little musical education outside of childhood, and yet he rose to the pinnacle of fame in Europe in his lifetime. He made it happen.
Plus his music is deeper and more sophisticated than people give him credit for.

[ironflange]

22. Here's a funny story about the B Minor Mass

Many years ago, I was a member of the Calgary Philharmonic Chamber Choir, and we were going through final rehearsals for the B Minor. We were practising it in the rehearsal hall one evening, while the hypnotist Reveen was doing a show in the adjacent hall. We were clattering away in the Gloria or something, when a strange little wild-haired man in a tux appeared at the door. Turns out he was Reveen's stage manager. He yelled, "STOP MAKING SO MUCH NOISE!" The conductor, an extremeley temperamental Hungarian named Arpad Joo, said, "Who are you?" Tux said "I"M ME!! AND I TOLD YOU TO BE QUIET!!!" At this, Arpad turned to the band and choir and quietly said, "Number 17." That's the Et Resurrexit. After a few seconds of this, Tux rushed the podium, but the brass section cut him off, grabbed him, and dragged him out kicking and screaming. You should have seen how they were puffing out their feathers when they came back, probably the first tough guy thing they'd ever done. Turned out we were getting noisy while Reveen was putting the audience members under, and they only needed a few minutes of quiet. We worked on the softer bits for a while, and all was well. Anyway, all the little guy had to do was ask nicely! Still, he must have felt like the man in the cartoon who knocks on the apartment door of the noisy next-door neighbor, only to find a full orchestra and choir in there.

[slack]

28. I prefer Beethoven

but Bach is ok. The funny thing about Bach is, you can listen his music backwards, he was mathematician. I tried it, really funny.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

36. Bach's "Crab Cannon" anyone?

I am in no way mathematical, but I feel a mathematical switch go off in my brain when I listen to his music.

[joeybee12]

37. All you have to do is listen to any of Antonin Dvorak's works...

...and I'll have convinced you!

[LastKnight]

40. Dvorak is a talented man.

very good music.

-LK

[St. Jarvitude]

38. Elgar is my favorite

A wide variety of pieces, from the powerful imagery of his famous Enigma to his breathtaking Cello Concerto in E Minor (Op. 85).

Bach is certainly my favorite composer to play. I'm working on a performance of his Cello Unaccompanied Suite No. 2 right now, in fact (complete with my own bowings and dynamics).

[Goldberg]

42. That's tough...

I don't think I could do it, just for the fact that I agree with you.

Beethoven is a very very close second. I love his sonatas.

[aldian159]

47. Mozart

He wrote everything. Opera, concerto, symphony. Wolfgang rocked.

[SilasSoule]

49. My P.C. wakes me up each morning by playing an MP3

of the little fugue in G Minor.

You have very adequetaley expressed my own sentiments of JSB.

[trackfan]

51. I'm a Brahms fan

and he certainly was a master of counterpoint, and, as such, a student of the works of Bach. In fact a certain line of contrapunctal master can be drawn from Bach to Bramhms to Reger to Hindemith. Schoenberg also expressed much indebtedness to Brahms, notably in his famous article "Brahms the Progessive".

[Bake]

53. Well, there's Handel's Messiah, or Chopin

I'm awfully fond of Chopin, especially the Grand Waltz Brilliante, but maybe because that's what my beautiful wife plays for me on the piano ... and I miss her!!

I took her to Chopin's grave in the cemetary in Paris ... it was pretty cool. OF course, Jim Morrison had a spot there too (but the family moved the Lizard King, from what I understand).

Bake

[saltpoint]

54. If it's going to be Bach, then give me --

-- the b-flat minor Prelude and Fugue.

A beautiful piece.

[Ediacara]

55. Everything he wrote sounds the same

it's easy to write 10,000 variations of the same song...

[pippin]

56. You must be mixing him up with Vivaldi!

Bach was and is divine! His unaccompanied cello suite is sublime. He was pretty much forgotten by the way afer his death till composers like Mendelssohn and Chopin unearthed him. Who knows how long he would have remained forgotten were it not for this re-discovery. Ofcourse some composers should remain unexhumed--thinking mostly about Pachabel who was unearthed in the 70's and we now have to put with his dreadful canon that's played ad nauseam.