Question about 64-bit computing...

[ghostsofgiants]

So I got my new computer all set up, video card and everything. 32-bit operating systems are unable to utilize all 4GB of RAM. So I was thinking I'd upgrade to a 64-bit OS, probably Windows XP, but maybe Vista if I really have to. I'm wondering if that would cause any compatibility problems for me with various programs.

What say you, nerds of the lounge?

[NJmaverick]

1. I theory it shouldn't

but then again theory has been known to get it wrong

[ghostsofgiants]

2. Haha, touché.

Ah well, if it gives me troule I'll just format and go back to the 32-bit.

[NJmaverick]

5. 32 and 64 bit processing is all about the CPU

not the formatting. If you don't have a 64 bit processor, you can't use a 64 bit system.

[ghostsofgiants]

7. My CPU is definitely 64-bit.

But a friend of mine objected when I mentioned 64-bit Windows and said I'd have issues with programs being incompatible.

[NJmaverick]

8. As I understand it, if the program isn't written for 64 bit processing

the program simply can not take advantage of the extra processing power.

[ghostsofgiants]

9. Cool.

[PBS Poll-435]

45. See here....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7964102&mesg_id=7971927

[PBS Poll-435]

44. That is wrong.

64-bit vs 32-bit really only different in one way.

The kernel in 32-bit versions of Windows XP, Vista, Unix, Linux, etc. can only "address" 4GBs of memory. It is a lot like assigning memorable nicknames to all of your friends. Eventually you will run out.

Problem is...Your graphics card has memory, too. So if you have a 512MB video card you have reduced your maximum usable system memory from 4GB to 3.5GB. If you have two 512MB video cards SLI'd or Crossfired, you have reduced your maximum memory from 4GB to 3GB.

Plus other system devices consume system memory addresses. Things like cache buffers and on board audio codecs...

The 64-bit extensions allow for more memory "nicknames" so that the OS can write to, and later retrieve information.

Windows XP Pro x64 is a native 64-bit OS that has a 32-bit emulator so that you can run non 64-bit software. (99.9% of the software out there)

You must use a native 64-bit OS to utilize the extra memory addressing power of the processor.

But if you have 2GB of memory, and you are using a 32-bit OS, there is no reason to go to x64.

***One Caveat***

AMD Athlon X2 and newer processors sometimes show slightly better performance using a 64-bit OS vs a 32-bit OS even when using less than the maximum memory capacity of a 32-bit OS.

This has to to with the integrated memory controller. Intel, until Q4 2008 release of "Nehalem" uses a memory controller that is on the motherboard northbridge rather than on the processor itself.

[flvegan]

3. It shouldn't.

Besides, if it does, you can still just uninstall and go back, right?

[ghostsofgiants]

4. Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.

But since I'm at work right now I figured I'd get some opinions to see if it was even worth the effort once I get home and get shit backed up.

[DS1]

6. I run Vista64 Ulitimate at home

there are some codec issues with various downloaded videos, but nothing VLC can't handle. Sometimes the sound doesn't come back after sleep mode, but disabling and reenabling the card fixes it. I'm using a card not officially supported for 64-bit, so I'm okay with that.

Apart from having 2 program folders to worry about, it's pretty much the same as anything 32-bit.

Program Files
Program Files(x86) <- where 32-bit apps are installed. The installers and windows figure out where to put them for you.

[sakabatou]

10. VLC?

[ghostsofgiants]

11. Really solid video player.

[DS1]

12. media player that plays just about every format

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

[sakabatou]

16. Cool

Can it also translate the video to another format? If not can you recommend one that will?

[ghostsofgiants]

13. Cool, thanks.

[hobbit709]

14. The only program that wouldn't install on my XP X64

Was my old Acronis True Image, so I had to upgrade it. Everything else I installed works just fine. Just make sure you have all the 64 bit drivers for your motherboard and hardware before you start.

[PBS Poll-435]

50. Drivers are the key because of the memory parameters that they set.

Make a flash-drive or a CD of every possible 64-bit driver that you may need!

[Deja Q]

15. Go Vista

XP64 is okay, but it's Vista that's spurring more developers to do 64-bit anything.

Heck, get 8GB. Find a RAM disk utility and let Windows put the bloody swap file there and kick up performance. :7

As 32-bit Server OSes can use all 4GB, there must be a reghack out there (not the usual /PAE routine that goes into the boot.ini file...) that can be implemented.

But to answer your question, you might encounter compatibility issues. DOS and 16-bit apps are a no-go. And all drivers must be signed. (this helps stability too...)

[RoyGBiv]

48. Signed drivers do not help stability ...

Signed drivers *tend* to be more stable, but the fact that they are signed does not make them stable, nor is the requirement they be signed an attempt to improve stability (except in the marketing literature).

[PBS Poll-435]

17. I know, I know!!!!

Get XP Pro x64.

It is sweet and I only had an issue with one program.

And Microsoft actually helped me fix it! :wow:

[ghostsofgiants]

18. Kickass.

[PBS Poll-435]

19. When you get a chance....list you specs on the new system!

:)

[ghostsofgiants]

21. Sure...

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz, but I plan to overclock once I get the OS and all that stuff sorted out), 4GB of Patriot Viper DDR2 1066 RAM, Geforce 8800GT 512MB video card, all in an Asus P5Q Pro motherboard.

[PBS Poll-435]

22. I have yet to see a Q6600 that won't do 3.0 GHz

On stock volts.

It is 65nm, though, so get a decent HSF.

[ghostsofgiants]

23. I've got cooling covered.

Thermalright ULTRA120 with a 120mm fan. :thumbsup:

[PBS Poll-435]

24. You trying for 5GHz?

:rofl:

[ghostsofgiants]

26. I'm just not taking any risks, haha.

I wanna keep that fucker cool.

[PBS Poll-435]

47. Did you use thermal grease or a similar material?

Or was there already a pad attached to the heatsink?

[ghostsofgiants]

49. The heatsink came with a syringe of thermal paste.

[DainBramaged]

20. Don't do that

getting drivers to work is just impossible, and Microblows no longer supports 64 bit Winblows XP. I am having a ball with Vista 32 bit with 4 gig of ram (512 shared with the insane video card) and it shows 3.5 balance.

On edit, and the system with the 4 GB ram has a BLACK AMD X2 64 5000 (2.6) overclocked to 3.3 MHz and it is stable as a rock in a storm.

[Pierre.Suave]

25. I have a 64 bit OS working fine for me right now...

Oh, you meant windows...

:P

Actually, I hope it works for you!

[ghostsofgiants]

27. Based on what people are saying, I think it will.

I'm out of town for a few days though, so I haven't been able to prepare and do it yet, haha.

[Pierre.Suave]

28. I am sure you will like that 8800gt as well

I have the 8800gt which I use all the time in Vista which I dual boot on my Mac Pro so I can play some games I cant get on OSX.

it is a decent video card, but like I said before, I wish I had more choices relating to GPUs on my mac.

[ghostsofgiants]

29. Yeah, I've been playing some games on it and I am pleased.

Nothing too intensive so far, a couple shooters that are a couple years old and the Lost game, but it is pretty rad. :D

[Pierre.Suave]

30. I play flight sims exclusively

and FSX is intense. I could use that 9800GX2 though.

[PBS Poll-435]

32. AMD is going to release a 4870 for Mac next month...

Or so I hear...

At least 2X the speed of the 8800GT in synth benches and most games.

[Pierre.Suave]

34. really...

got any links for this bit of info?

[PBS Poll-435]

41. No....but you can bookmark this thread....

:evilgrin:

[RadiationTherapy]

31. I am still shopping and have pretty much decided on a Mac Pro.

But my friend continues to warn me that my OS and software have to "be able to" take advantage of the 64bits and the multiple cores. What do I need to look into??

Also, I am looking at 4 core instead of 8; does that mean 2 duo instead of 4 duo? What will I be losing out on with 4 instead of 8 processors?

[Pierre.Suave]

33. Is your friend a PC person?

If he is, tell him to stuff it.

What you will be losing out on is 4 more processing cores working on rendering video, creating music, etc...

The price difference between a 4 core and an 8 core mac pro is 500 bucks. The decision is yours.

[RadiationTherapy]

36. Hmmmmmm. My wife is trying to get me to save that $500.00

So, pardon my ignorance, but does my saving the $500 actually double my rendering time or is it (something like) 30minutes to render with 4 and 22 minutes with 8?

Thanks for all of your help with this!

[Pierre.Suave]

40. Maybe

I dont know for sure, I think you can see the performance benchmarks on the apple website.

[PBS Poll-435]

46. It will not double your processing power.

Theoretically, it should.

However, Intel CPUs do not scale that well.

It will be something like this:

1 core - 1 hour
2 cores - 45 mins
3 cores - 33 mins
4 cores - 25 mins
5 cores - 20 mins
6 cores - 17.5 mins
7 cores - 16.25 mins
8 cores - 15.75 mins

[RadiationTherapy]

37. He IS a PC person!

So Apple has their shit together and their OS and Adobe Premiere Pro will utilize all of the mighty power of the multi-cores and 64bits?

Actually, I am also considering going Mac with the multimedia software as well. I have PCs and Adobe products at work, so I figured I should expand my knowledge by going with Final Cut Pro (I will probably stick with Photoshop and Audition for stills and audio)

[Pierre.Suave]

39. yes

Apple has their shit together. They design the computers and the software. There is a reason the pros use Macs.

[TommyO]

38. Mac OS-X is already 64-bit and multi-core capable

After all, it was designed to run on the hardware. You won't have any problems with current software, more of it is multi-threaded and multiple CPU aware every day.


As for the 4-Core MacPro, it has one 4-core CPU, instead of the two 4-core CPUs of the other Mac Pros. You'll see slightly slower performance on 4-core model compared to the 8-core machine, unless you happen to be using software specifically coded to use all available cores such as 3-D rendering or video encoding software.

[Deja Q]

35. You're using nex... freebs... MacOS X.

:rofl:

[Pierre.Suave]

42. And you are using Winblows

whats your point?

You are also no doubt using an antivirus program, probably 2 spyware programs, and whatever else you need to keep that thing running...

me, I just turn it on and go, without worries...

I really try to be nice to you, but damn man you turn EVERY mac post of mine into a chance to attack me for it.

[Pierre.Suave]

43. And you are using Winblows

whats your point?

You are also no doubt using an antivirus program, probably 2 spyware programs, and whatever else you need to keep that thing running...

me, I just turn it on and go, without worries...

I really try to be nice to you, but damn man you turn EVERY mac post of mine into a chance to attack me for it.