Dating advice needed --- Please help

[Blue_Tires]

I've always thought a dating/relationships forum would be useful here, and have suggested it to the admins from time to time...However, I must call upon the vast depth of lounge lizard experiences...

Every few months I go through the same routine to resurrect a long-dead love life, which had been steadily decreasing for a long time (I'm 31 now)...I try to go where the women (especially liberal ones) are: the beach, art shows, outdoor gatherings, the gym, volunteering, etc.... I also re-subscribe to one of several dating websites I have used in the past with varying degrees of success -- I'm one of those extreme introverted types (but I've been improving on it slowly) and online dating/chat came very naturally to me back when I was in college (AOL days), but for whatever reason, as I was thinking of a new ad to write; I decided my heart wasn't in it...

Why has this become so difficult for me while so easy for my friends and cousins? What am I doing wrong to make women not want to go out with me? Should I even bother with the online sites anymore? I'm opening myself up before you because it is time for a new approach than these old ways that don't cut it anymore...Even in a anonymous forum, I'm not bold enough to state the last time I had a real girlfriend or even made it to a second date...Granted, we all have our own set of circumstances, and there are some in my life which could turn some women off, but not all of them...

I'm employed, stay out of trouble, and am financially responsible...I don't have a bunch of unattached kids running around...People tell me I'm smart and I try to stay in decent shape, and I'm not one of those guys with unattainable, fantasy-girl standards that no real woman can ever meet...

I didn't want this this to turn into a pity-me thread, but I would welcome all suggestions, websites, resources, or other methods to reverse this trend...Feel free to PM me if you don't want to answer here...Feel free to ask any specific questions you have, and thanks in advance...

[Digit]

1. Redo your ad online, just in case

I know lots of people who have met the love of their lives online. Admit in your ad you are shy at first.

It sounds like maybe you may need to initiate conversation if you see someone you find attractive or interesting. Ask them out for coffee or something non-threatening.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Best of luck to you...your lady is out there somewhere.

[Blue_Tires]

8. thanks

i'll try to get it up and going this weekend (I'm doing match.com this time)...I could probably use some better photos as well...

[Missy Vixen]

2. So, what are you looking for?

What personality traits are you desirous of?

I met my husband through an ad. I'm more than happy to help if you'd like some help writing another one. (It's a huge bummer you are on the opposite coast, because I know two single women right now that would love to meet a great guy!)

Julie

[Blue_Tires]

10. I can PM you the ad when it is ready, if you like

I try to be open personality-wise, because I can work with such a wide range of them... Realistically, my main criteria are that she does not smoke or have children (and it would help if she was also as liberal as I am, but that's not of utmost importance)...Of course it also helps if she looks decent, and is into some of the things I'm into...

[Missy Vixen]

15. I'd like that

I'm more than happy to offer any help I can as well.

I'm crossing my fingers that the young lady you're going to fall in love with shows up sooner than later.

Julie

[blue cat]

3. we do need a dating forum

don't give up, but taking breaks from dating is ok. try okcupid.com - it's free and you won't feel bad if you don't check it for a while.

[LostinVA]

24. DU does have a dating forum

It's called the Lounge.

[IronLionZion]

28. I think it's fine the way it is

because the Lounge has lots of participation in these sorts of threads as it's mixed in with lots of fun and frivolous threads. I doubt this many DUers would hang out at a dedicated dating forum to provide this many responses this quickly.

[LostinVA]

33. Haruka and I actually both noticed each other at first in GD

Then, we started talking in the lounge, then PMs. Things progressed from there, and now we're married.

[Symarip]

4. I hate when people say shit like 'it happens when you're not looking for it'

I always think that in any of life's goals, one needs a plan. When it comes to trying to attract the superior sex, I find that women seek passion and confidence. Find something that sings to your inner soul, and something that you can share. For me, it's always been music and it's an easy way to break the ice. And I'd do it even if it was for an audience of one: me. By investing time into something you love, you have the ability to express passion, confidence, and individuality all at the same time while not compromising who you are. And you can still be a fumbling, stuttering idiot like me (I have a slight stutter, for serious :) ).

[Blue_Tires]

11. I don't really have anything

that I can say truly sings to my inner soul...(Movies? video games? sports? writing?) Guess I need to find something...

[just a girl]

25. And then there are us odd women

... that just break your definition.

Passion? Confidence? I certainly wouldn't call those the most important qualities.
Most of the women I know what someone who can stimulate their minds. That could be as simple as playing / enjoying the same video games together, it could be enjoying the same sports and challenging each others knowledge, it could be literature exposure.

Above all they want someone they can trust and who makes them feel special.

[SOteric]

5. I'll give you the same advice I give my friends and coworkers

when they ask.

Get involved in something you love. Take a class in something you've always wanted to learn or been passionate about. Even just something that sounds amusing. - Do you like Chinese food? Take a class in Chinese cooking. You'll meet other people who have an interest in something that you already have an interest in as well, so there's automatic conversation. You can recommend group get-togethers with members of the class (Photography class? - co-ordinate a group outing for a day hike to do nature photography in a local park; Painting? get some folks together to do life sketches, colour studies, etc.; Baking class? Get some folks together once or twice a week to have coffee and pastries at bakeshops around town.)

So okay, now you're involved in something you like already. But what happens if you don't meet any eligible women? You make friends with the married women, guys, and persons of indeterminate gender. The bonus is you get some friends and a bit of a social circle, so you've got some places to take a woman you might like and want to get to know better. And more to the point, those married women and guys all have friends, sisters, cousins and neighbours who are also trying to meet a nice guy and who can't figure out how to find them. It's much easier to get to know someone without any pressure to develop a chemistry if you've been invited to a backyard barbeque at a friends house and there just happen to be a couple of eligible women there to start up a conversation with.

[Blue_Tires]

13. I do volunteer from time to time

ironically, there are TONS of women at the place where I volunteer, but sadly they are mostly 17-21 and I'm looking for just a little more maturity...

And I've taken rec classes like swimming (I want to do archery in the fall), meditation circles, yoga, etc but no luck either way...I do work long hours and there are other stressors going on in my life, so I can't do these things as often as I like, but I do try...

[harmonicon]

31. don't discount someone because of age

Don't be a creepy old man either (I saw this as someone about your same age)... you just might find that the person you really enjoy being with is 21. I'm 5 years older than my girlfriend - yeah, there are times when it's frustrating, because of maturity, different levels of life experience, and our sometimes lack of shared cultural references, but I wouldn't trade her in.

[Blue_Tires]

34. i do try to keep a wide range

i don't feel comfortable going all the way down to 20-21, but I do think 25-40 is a wide enough selection to choose from...

[harmonicon]

40. hahaha....

but that's exactly what I mean!! There may be the perfect 20, or even 18, year old out there for you. If you start off thinking that you're not interested, or that they wouldn't be interested, or that it won't work out, how are you helping things? Seriously. 18 year olds are adults. They aren't the same as 31 year olds, but each one is also not the same as any other - that's part of being human. There isn't going to be some magic combination of age, looks, beliefs, eduction, etc. that works, just a person, or people. I've had a few long term relationships. It's not like one person was lacking something the other had - different people are different in every way, and that's what's good about them.

[MissMillie]

6. grab an oar

we're in the same boat.

And I don't know what to tell you.

I feel increasingly discouraged as I age (I'm not 31 anymore and haven't been for some time).

Yep, I get all kinds of advice

I try to do the things I like doing, and usually end up meeting NO ONE. Not even "friends". Usually because when I go to do the things I like to do, the place is filled with couples, who are usually less than willing to invite a single to come and join them.

My advice is this.... make your own life interesting. If it turns out you end up alone, then at the very least you like yourself and can be okay with entertaining yourself.

Beyond that, I got nothing.

[Blue_Tires]

7. i know what you mean

About making my own life interesting, because I grew up as an only child with two working parents in a neighborhood with next to no kids my age -- I was always accustomed to doing things alone, but now at this age I'm getting sick of it....Around women, I have always tried to be my genuine self and not pretend to be something I'm not...My problem is women don't seem to be drawn to this anymore...If I'm still alone after doing all I can to improve things; I can reconcile with that truth...

[raccoon]

12. I was always accustomed to doing things alone, and still am.

I'm kind of in the same boat you are, and at my age (50's) demographics are not on my side.

[JVS]

9. Dude it sounds like you have a good life. No need for a woman or some kids to louse it all up

[Blue_Tires]

14. you would think so, but I can really use a good 'lousing' about now

especially before I'm ready to join the viagra crowd...:silly:

[JVS]

17. That's why God invented massage parlors.

[no name no slogan]

30. And also why God made your arms the length that they are

amen, bro.

[LanternWaste]

16. This probably won't help, but here goes...

This probably won't help, but here goes...

Some time back, after a particularly harsh breakup with the young lady whom I thought was going to be my wife, my best pal gave me not so much advice as it was a simple adage that I've grown to incorporate into my life; that being:

It's better to be miserable because you're alone than it is to be miserable because you're with someone.


That aside, and as corny and cheesy as it may sound, the past three dates I've had, I've met while I was grocery shopping-- I see an attractive woman (sans ring of course) and simply play the incompetent, single-guy shopper who needs some food/grocery/ingredient/cooking advice.

Yes-- I know I'm being disingenuous in doing that, but... :shrug:

[Blue_Tires]

35. that is a good point to ponder

even though either option could be true depending on who the person is you're miserable with...And I haven't tried the 'incompetent shopper' hook for a long time (my preferred place was the bookstore), but it might be worth dusting off again...thanks

[Courtesy Flush]

18. There is no good advice

From all I've seen in the world of romance, I should be single and untouchable. I'm everything that women don't want. But I've been happily married for 25 years. It's a crap shoot, I tell ya.

I see a lot of DUers post almost the same comments you have. I just don't understand it.

OTOH: I work for social services, and I see more skanky people who have no trouble at all finding mates. They can be chronically unemployed, drug addicted, and have a series of sex offenses on their record, and still find one person after another. Meanwhile nice decent people can't find anyone.

I just hope like hell I keep the one I have. It's murder out there.

But the good news is that if it's a crap shoot, it can happen to you on any given day. Just keep making new contacts (I almost said keep exposing yourself to new people. LOL)

[Blue_Tires]

36. thanks for the insight...

which is very true...in fact, one of the previous DUer threads you read was probably one of mine!

And I know it's no exact science, despite what any so-called expert or book says...I too know guys with shady reps who behind closed door openly admit being cruel, cheaters and exploitative to their women, and these are guys who have NEVER had a shortage of high-profile women...But you are right; the importance is to keep meeting new people (which I need to work on as well).

[Sewsojm]

19. I think you need to,

Stop worrying about it and begin trying harder to meet women your attracted to and go have some Fun, life's too short and we all waste way too much of it.

[Blue_Tires]

37. i'm trying...believe me, i am trying

[Fleshdancer]

20. Election year is the PERFECT time to meet people

Campaign volunteering can be pretty fun when you're single. Also, check out "Drinking Liberally", a social gathering for liberals around the country. I looked and there's one in your area: http://livingliberally.org/drinking/chapters/VA Obviously you don't have to drink if you don't want to, but I've been to it in my town and it's a great way to meet like-minded people. www.Meetup.com is also a good source.

I get the feeling from your OP that you're shy. If this is the case, then a problem that a lot of shy people have is that they sometimes come across as stuck-up or arrogant. I was terribly shy when I was younger and after several friends admitted that they thought I was, well...a bitch before they got to know me, it made me realize I was giving a vibe that was completely off the mark. I know this sounds silly, but the more I learned about body language, the more approachable I became to the opposite sex.

[Blue_Tires]

38. thanks for the link

i don't drink (at all), but i will check that out and see what's going on...I have had a shyness problem which was MUCH worse when I was younger -- but I can overcome it when I'm in a confident mood...

[applegrove]

21. join the UU church. And do social justice work while you enlarge your circle of friends.

Don't be put off my making friends with people older than you at the UU. You'll find out more about yourself and you'll have the opportunity to go to all sorts of liberal events and be involved with causes that are not Unitarian Universalist specific. UU people are fiesty and full of life. That is what you need to learn. How to open up and love others and yourself.

[Blue_Tires]

39. i'll check it out

a few years ago when I was living in another state, I got to know a Unitarian church very well through my job...I was impressed with their openness and compassion...On a personal note, it always felt a little weird to me trying to meet women at a church..But doing anything different than what I'm doing now has to be an improvement.

[RadiationTherapy]

22. Are you interesting? Your OP makes you sound boring.

Boring is the dating death.

Travel and learn how to express yourself artistically.

Don't be so...so..."employed, stay out of trouble, and am financially responsible". Travel, travel travel and learn guitar.

[Blue_Tires]

41. i am learning a new language...

and travel is one of my big interests, but i haven't been able to do it in a few years (trying to get my money straight)...

and personally, I think of "boring" as a state of mind...In most cases, if you WANT to find interest in some person, place, or thing big or small, you can. Likewise, people can consciously or subconsciously refuse to feel wonder or curiosity...just imo

All things being equal, i know women will never date a man whose life isn't at least as exciting as hers...Now I'm not leading the life of James Bond or even some of the better known lounge lizards, but I do have my own pursuits in life -- I guess I don't always talk myself up when describing myself...I used the "employed, stay out of trouble, and am financially responsible" term just to show I try to be a good person...

[Taverner]

23. Try changing your profile every couple of weeks

Also don't give away too much information in your profile - they should be like a teaser trailer for a film. You have an idea, but are curious to know more.

[Blue_Tires]

42. I thought women wanted all the info they could get?

I've had minimalist profiles in the past and they never worked...Besides, writing is one of the things I do well...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. You have to show how DIFFERENT you are from the average

The "I'm just another average guy" approach is poison. If you don't say anything negative about yourself ("I'm unemployed, just out of prison for the second time, and addicted to every street drug there is"), women will assume that you have a job, etc. Drop a few hints about your interests, what you like to do for fun, your philosophy of life (but don't write a DU-style rant--which I often saw on Democratic Singles and viewed as an immediate turnoff).

[Blue_Tires]

56. if you like, i can pm it to you when it's ready

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. If you like--I'm a LOT older than you are, but

I'm a veteran of the personals scene, which I finally gave up on because I realized that I've never found anyone whom I dated more than three times, and most of them not even that. After several forays into that scene over the years, I ended up with one platonic friend and met a lot of men who misrepresented themselves. (I'm not talking about wealth or looks. Most of them were just weird, and not in a nice way.)

[Taverner]

52. Not just minimalist, but ones that tease

They should have questions :)

[Connonym]

26. Would you consider moving to Wisconsin and hooking up with an older woman?

I'm reasonably intelligent, have all my teeth and I'm a pretty good cook.

[Blue_Tires]

53. doesn't it get cold up that way?

lol

[IronLionZion]

27. Are you actually approaching anyone?

Are you asking them out for coffee?

Waiting for them to approach you is probably the biggest mistake anyone (especially guys) could make.

Here is a great resource with instructional videos on how to do lots of things:

http://www.videojug.com/tag/getting-a-date

[Blue_Tires]

43. holy damn that site is a goldmine

My best friend sent me this link tonight and I'm starting to go through it:
http://www.askmen.com/love/player/41_love_games.html

A lot of the stuff I know; but a refresher never hurts -- And I'll be able to pinpoint what it is I'm not doing...thanks

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Here's the advice I give all guys who post this type of plea in the Lounge:

Ask a platonic female friend or relative to evaluate you frankly.

I agree with the poster who thought that you may be presenting yourself in a boring matter: "I'm employed, stay out of trouble, and am financially responsible." Uh, that's minimum requirements for a functional adult. It's not something that's going to make a woman swoon. When I see a personal ad that boasts of being "a homeowner and a college graduate," I think, "Has nothing interesting to say."

There was a time in my life when I was attracting no one but nerds. I happened to be complaining about this to a married woman friend when her husband walked into the room. He joined the conversation and told me that he had assumed that I was married when he first met me. He said that it was hard to describe why he felt that way, but one thing was that I was dressing too conservatively. He understood that I was trying to "dress for success," but I was dressing really drably.

I made a point of loosening up, and my social life improved.

I've met men who desperately needed advice on how to attract women. Here are some common mistakes:

1. Not paying enough attention to their appearance or hygiene. I once approached a man whose T-shirt slogan I liked but turned around about ten feet short of him, which is where I could begin to smell him. You don't have to be handsome--some of the most popular men I know are downright funny-looking--but you have to be clean, neat, and dressed in a way that matches your personality.

2. Being boring and overly subdued. I don't mean you have to be a "bad boy." You have to act as if you have the potential to be a "bad boy." Wicked glints in the eyes are one of the most attractive traits there is, along with a sense of humor.

3. Going after the wrong women. You have a physical image of what your ideal woman looks like, and you ignore the rest. Yes, I know that men are visually oriented, but it's the non-visual traits that make for a lasting relationship. If your "want" list has any physical characteristics on it, you're unconsciously eliminating a lot of possibilities.

But above all, ASK A WOMAN TO EVALUATE YOU. I have made this recommendation many times on this board. I've never heard of a single complainer who took the advice.

[Blue_Tires]

45. that is the tip i've been looking for

Now that I think about it, the first two points have just nailed me: I do need a woman to evaluate my appearance and wardrobe, and while I don't consider myself "boring", I admit I am very subdued, unconfident and withdrawn at times, and can be slow to 'loosen up'...But I've never had the mindset that my woman must have a certain height/weight/skin tone/hair color/cup size, etc...Appearance-wise, I'm always casting a wide net...

[harmonicon]

32. I think I can only give mostly the same advice that others already have

First, I think you have to be friends with a woman and know that you get along before dating can happen. Sure, you may want to get to know them because you're attracted to them, but just starting with a date can be awkward if you don't already know some things about the other person and know that you can be comfortable spending time together without the pressure of being something other than just friends. This doesn't mean that you should make a point of asking a woman out "as a friend", or anything like that. Just ask someone you like to go do something that you like doing along with you.

It seems to me that you just need to be in a situation where you're meeting more people. Do you hang out anywhere? If not, why not? I would never suggest that you go to the kind of bar/club where people go to meet sex partners, but if there's a bar that you like going to, go there and hang out. You'll meet people there. It could also be a coffee shop or something. Maybe there's a type of music or a few particular bands that you really like - if so, become a regular at a place that does live music. I've met loads of people that way. Maybe you're into the symphony - orchestra concerts have intermissions where people are usually getting a drink or a coffee in the lobby. I'm not suggesting these things as ways to get a date, but as ways to meet people, which I think is the first step. Someone else suggested church. I hate church and would never go, but if you're religious and would enjoy the experience of going to church/temple/etc. by yourself, start doing that. My sister met her husband and church - I think he's probably a lot like you. He owned his own house, had a good job, etc., but wouldn't have been in other circles where he could meet women.

As for the online services, I've had no experience with them. My brother tried a few some years ago, and went on some dates, but nothing that turned into anything. On the other hand, I have a cousin who met her husband through one of those websites.

I think you just can't seem desperate. If you aren't happy with your life right now, and you think having a girlfriend would fix that, maybe you need to think of something else that could fix that. I think you're more likely to find the right person if you're in a position where they can find you, and find you to be a happy, well rounded individual already. You'll have better luck finding someone to share your life with than you will finding someone to make your life what you want it to be.

[Blue_Tires]

46. good insights

especially the last paragraph, which I have to remind myself of from time to time...

as far as getting out goes, I tend to hang out at the beach, outdoor parties, friends houses, that sort of thing...I don't drink (and am allergic to secondhand smoke), so bars are no good to me...I did the dance club thing in my college/grad school years and got tired of it...I do want to find better places where the women are than my current circuit...

[harmonicon]

48. that was the case for me

I met my current girlfriend when I was in grad school, which I'll admit is a much easier place to meet people than at a job or out at a club. We were each seeing other people when we met, but we still liked hanging out and had a lot of mutual friends. Then when we were both single later on, it was a lot easier to start a relationship.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. I'd like to enlarge upon harmonicon's comments

1. If you're a straight man and have spiritual inclinations, a liberal church/temple is a good place to meet women. You will be one of the few straight, single men there. In nearly five years at my current church, most of the straight single men who have shown up as new members have found a ladyfriend or even a wife within a short time. Religious institutions have social hours, public events, discussion groups, and charitable projects to work on. (Most of the men in a liberal parish are gay or married, so if you're neither of the above, the women will notice YOU.) Don't try one church and give up. Shop around till you find one where the people in general feel congenial.

2. Musical and theatrical events are a great untapped resource for single men. When I go to musical events or theater, I see gay men meeting one another in the lobby during intermission. Why can't straight men use such opportunities to meet women? After all, like church, arts events are full of gay men, married men, married women, and lots and lots of single women.

I'd like to add that men seem to give up too soon. I used to belong to a Sunday movie group in another city. We'd see the last Sunday matinee showing of a current film and then discuss it over dinner. We had a core group of several women, one man who was divorced but still in love with his ex and therefore not looking, a man who actually preferred dating younger women, and a gay man. Other men showed up once and only once. I assume that they looked around, thought, "Nope, I haven't fallen in love at first sight with any of these women. No use sticking around." It didn't occur to them that a) It's good to have friends to go to the movies with, b) They might like one of the women who showed up later, and c) They might gradually fall in love with one of the women in the group. No, they just moved on.

[Blue_Tires]

54. I go to Buddhist mediation circles

but they are usually all male...I am starting to get into yoga, which should even out the odds a bit...The theater is another great idea that never crossed my mind...To answer your last point, I do tend to frustrate easily; but like i said in the OP, this time i'm developing an entirely new approach to doing things...

[AZSlacker]

44. Although I'm a year your junior.. and hesitate to offer advice... I'll offer this

... quit trying...


Life is based on irony... stop seeking what you are looking for, and just try to be happy... if you just try to be happy, and not make your happiness, based on what you think, or you think other people think ... would make you or others think happy, or complete... and you just tried to fill whatever void in yourself, with what ever it is that fills you...

what you have been seeking will eventually come your way... When the time is right, what you are looking for, will find you... all you need to do is be in the right place when it does.. I say this as someone who will be 30 in a couple of weeks and who lives by themselves, and is ok with that... if nothing comes, that is fine... and if something comes.. that is ok too... learn to be happy with what the present has for you, because otherwise you are just going to imprison yourself in anguish... The present is all we really have... so just do your best to enjoy it.

[Blue_Tires]

47. hmm...that reads kind of like zen philosophy

thanks

[MissHoneychurch]

50. You are not the only one out there

what you write could be me. I am 33 years old, a confident woman in my job but dating .... horrible.

Interested? :D

[Blue_Tires]

55. can you get me tickets to the Euro final?

j/k

[Blue_Tires]

58. Lonely late night kick

not really a kick, but I do want to thank the dozens of folks who chipped in with some wonderful ideas, most of which I'm implementing now (just finished the first version of my match.com ad)...It really helps having other people's viewpoints point out obvious things I can't see in front of me...

I'll keep people updated -- I honestly hope this is the last time I do a 'desperation' post in the lounge...Once again, thanks...

Scott