Am I wrong for insisting my son's father not smoke around him?

[liberalhistorian]

My son's father (we were never married) and his fiance smoke like chimneys. My son has asthma, and while it's very mild, smoking can really cause problems for him. He hates their smoking (he's 12), but they get angry whenever he says anything and tell him he's not allowed to say anything about it. He was always sick whenever he'd come home, even if it was just an overnight visit.

Last summer, they wanted him for a couple weeks at a time. He absolutely did NOT want to do that, he couldn't even stand being around them for more than a day or so. He has Asperger's Syndrome, a type of high-functioning autism, which they have absolutely NO clue at all how to handle, even though I've told them over and over and over and over and over again what they need to do and how they should handle things. They continue to yell and scream at him for everything, when that is the LAST thing you do with Asperger's kids. But that's another story that I'm not concerned with on this post.

I finally put my foot down and said that if they wanted him for more than a couple of days, they had to both handle his Asperger's right and STOP SMOKING AROUND HIM. They have a 3-year-old son, if they want to fill his lungs up with all that gunk and poison (and he's always getting sick, btw, gee, I wonder why?), then I have no say at all over it. But I DO have a say over it when it comes to my son, and if they want to see him they are absolutely NOT to smoke around him anymore. My lawyer and pediatrician both back me up on this, and, as a paralegal, I know the law is on my side.

They got very angry and I haven't heard from them since, that was in July. Chris has emailed his father once in awhile, but I haven't actually had any contact with him. That's his choice, obviously he and his fiance consider their fucking cigarettes, and their "right" to smoke them, more important than seeing him. That is their choice. I will not apologize for my stance, I am protecting the interests of my son.

I'm asking this because there was a thread earlier today asking if parents should be fined for smoking in a car with children, and I got some vitriolic responses when I posted what I said above. I still firmly believe I'm in the right (and my son does, too, he does NOT want to be around them if they smoke, it really bothers him and they won't allow him to say anything, in fact, they get very angry when he does), but I'm interested in knowing what everyone else thinks.

[camero]

1. No, you're not wrong on this

Anybody can go outside to smoke. Maybe a solution would be to not let him visit overnight. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: my apologies, I thought you meant your father. :dunce:
Yes, you're right to insist he not smoke around him. You are the parent and he could go outside or make a special room to smoke and not let your son enter the room.

[liberalhistorian]

4. That's what I've said, he can't stay overnight

unless they don't smoke around him, and they adamantly refuse. Or maybe that bitch of a fiance of his does (and believe me, she IS a bitch, she's yelled at Chris IN FRONT OF ME, and then yelled at me when I told her not to do that, that it wasn't her place since I was there and she had no right, and she's always yelling at my son's father, too) and she's insisting that he go along with it if he wants to keep the peace, who knows. I don't really care, all I care about is that they not smoke around him and that they handle his Asperger's right, which they also refuse to do.

[camero]

6. You may have a reason to end visitation rights

If they can't handle your son's illness.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

51. Yes. Throw the book at them. With extreme prejudice.

A man with a suit and a briefcase, speaking legalese and handing papers, will instill the fear of God in them.

Forcing those foul substances on a child with asthma is too much.

[liberalhistorian]

52. That's why, even though I'm a paralegal,

I finally got a lawyer, and they refuse to communicate with both me and the lawyer. Which is fine with me, their blustering bullying only went so far before I finally snapped and put my foot down.

Of course, now, to them, I'M the one who's the bitch, the cause of all the trouble, and I can just hear what they're (particularly his fiance)saying about me to their friends and family, but I don't really give a shit anymore. They're the ones who've chosen smoking cigarettes over seeing him, not me.

[Catch22Dem]

2. I remember your post from last summer

You sounded like you were at the end of your rope with that woman. I've always wondered what ever became of the situation. Oh, and no you're not wrong.

[liberalhistorian]

9. Yes, I was indeed at the end of my rope,

and what became of the situation is that both she and my son's father have totally ignored me since then, there's been no communication at all except for the two or three emails Chris has exchanged with his father.

So I don't know what exactly is going on with them, except that they're probably very, very angry with me for insisting on their not smoking around my son and that they learn to handle his Asperger's right. TOUGH SHIT, lol! I've been a doormat with them long enough. Having her yell at me for asking her not to yell at my son in front of me was the last fucking straw.

[Catch22Dem]

20. I know you're a good person and all, but

HOW can you keep from taking this woman behind the woodshed and kicking the living shit out of her? You oughtta take dad out there and knock some sense into him as well! Good luck to ya. You ARE doing the right thing.

[girl gone mad]

3. No.

My dad was a smoker, and I now have breathing problems which I am pretty certain are a result of his second-hand smoke.

[Mobius]

5. UR absolutely RIGHT!

I never smoke around children. To smoke around a child with asthma is just downright negligence!

[Droopy]

7. You are not wrong

To insist otherwise would be insane.

I smoke and I know it's a bad habit, but I haven't gotten up the will to quit yet. That doesn't mean that I think that other people who do not smoke should suffer with my habbit.

Jesus Christ! What's wrong with your ex! Shouldn't seeing his son be more important than his fucking habit. All it takes is a step outside when you want to smoke. That's the way I handle it. No big deal. I won't subject others to my habit.

[liberalhistorian]

14. EXACTLY!

I never, ever said they couldn't smoke (what the hell right would I have to say that, anyway?), only that they couldn't do so around him if they wanted to see him. Obviously, they've chosen smoking over seeing him.

[Mobius]

8. does this woman resemble my avatar?

just curious :shrug:

[camero]

10. Clark is in your avatar?

oops. :) :dunce:

[Mobius]

13. no its batboy

clark / kerry is in my sig line. smart ass :P

[camero]

15. lol, I couldn't tell the difference.

Am I going blind or is Clark getting old? :) :dunce:

[Mobius]

18. u r going blind

dont get off topic :7

[liberalhistorian]

12. LOL!

My son certainly thinks so, he can't stand her. It's sad, really, he had a fairly decent relationship with his father before she came along and he loves his little brother, their son.

[Mobius]

16. BTW You are a great MOM

:toast:

[liberalhistorian]

23. Thanks!

n/t

[SlavesandBulldozers]

11. I'm all about cigarettes and smoking them

but I never do it at the expense of others, certainly not after I'm told that it makes those around me uncomfortable. Plus, I always smoke outside. You're completely in the right. FOr your son's father to be so inconsiderate of you and your child's wishes is troubling. Maybe email will work until Mr. Richard Smoker gets the idea.

[PVnRT]

17. No, you're right

The issue I and others had was with instituting fines and various sin taxes for those who do smoke.

[benddem]

19. Get a lawyer

If you can't afford one go to Social Services. THIS IS CHILD ABUSE

[liberalhistorian]

22. I do have an attorney, and he's written

several letters to him, to which he hasn't responded. So now we're going to go ahead and file a motion with the court asking to modify the terms of the visitation to include his and his fiance's not smoking around my son and his learning to handle his Asperger's Syndrome correctly.

And we're also making it clear to my son's father that his fiance has NO legal standing whatsoever in this, despite her attempts to dominate everything.

[xcentrik]

21. No no no no no no

I suffer from Asberger's myself ("high-functioning, luckily), and have smoked on and off for years, most likely as a "self-medication" strategy. It is very, very tempting. Notwithstanding, however, I never had a problem with excusing myself and just bloody stepping outside to smoke!!

[eileen from OH]

24. No, you're not wrong

And I AM a smoker. It's not smoking vs non-smoking - it's common courtesy and a health risk for your child. Just as having a pet with dander can cause problems for an allergic child - the answer to THAT is simple, yet unpopular - get rid of the animal.

I will say this at the same time, though - and it's completely unrelated to your issue, which is a very specific one. Smokers are not going away and like it or not, smoking is still legal. And. . .

There are other breathing-related issues which can also cause problems which get a total pass. The one that causes me to about die are people (yes, men too!) who positively BATHE in after-shave and perfume. So far I haven't run across any scent-free areas in restaurants. (I wish!)

I think you have every right to demand that your ex and his tootsie conform to health-related behaviors which have a dangerous effect on your child.

But when people try to extrapolate that equation to the population at large there are other issues which muddy the waters. (My recent experience - I was in a restaurant that only allowed smoking in the bar area. The rest of the joint is huge, many rooms, and has a good ventiliation system. Just one, li'l bar that allows smoking. So, I go into the one area to grab an after-dinner smoke and this guy asks me to put it out. He's got the entire joint, I get a tiny spot, and I'm supposed to accommodate him. That, I don't get.)

eileen from OH

[liberalhistorian]

27. You make some good points,

and I've NEVER said they had to stop smoking (I have no right to do that), just that they can't smoke around him. If they've chosen cigarettes and smoking them over seeing Chris, then that's their problem. They're the ones that made that choice.

[populistmom]

25. No

At the very least they can go outside to smoke and if they cared for him enough, that's what they'd do. I don't understand this kind of selfishness, but some people seem to be able to rationalize anything. I just feel bad, that one way or another, it's your poor son that ends up suffering. It just doesn't seem fair. :hug: to him and :hug: to you!

[Fridays Child]

26. Please check out TobacAlert, a home test that shows the level of...

...secondhand smoke chemicals in the body. If I remember correctly, it's a simple urine dip test, and it's highly accurate. The results may even be admissible in court, provided you can document having administered the test immediately upon regaining custody of your child, after a visit to the father.

[liberalhistorian]

33. Thanks for the info, I hadn't heard

of that before.

[NightTrain]

28. You're absolutely right to put your foot down!

Granted, I may be rather biased in this regard--not just because you and I have become an item, but also because I watched my father and two of my uncles die of smoking-related health complications.

To smoke around a kid with asthma, particularly when that kid is your own son, is selfish, irresponsible, and stunningly immature. Thank Christ you never married that loser! Sounds like he ended up with the woman he deserves, anyway. :eyes:

[liberalhistorian]

30. LOL!

Hi, hon!:hi: :loveya:

Yes, I'm indeed very grateful we never married, despite how difficult and painful it was when he threw me out of the house when I was three months pregnant, and they do deserve each other.

And I know you have, indeed, seen your share of smoking-related illnesses in your family, so you know where I'm coming from.

Psssssttt........only 36 more days 'till our big weekend!

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Absolutely under no circumstances are you wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Smoked for 27 years and quit cold turkey 3 years ago Sept 29th (although, i regret to admit, i have started up again as of late, BUT I HAVE NICORETTE AND TOMORROW ...NO MORE!!) but i NEVER, EVER smoked around folks that were offended and/or minded or children. Anyone, much less the father of an asthmatic child that smokes around them seems to me to be little more than a thoughtless bore. Don't force your son on these people and if his dad protests tell him to think about the effects his habit is having on your son. Tell him also that until he DOES do that thinking and takes the appropriate action, the only way he is going to see him is in a public place, OUTSIDE and downwind.

and stick to your guns.

An ex (and again ex) smoker
Paul

[ConcernedCanuk]

31. NOPE - your not wrong in caring for your son's health

.
.
.

I'm a smoker, and if I had a child, I would be more than willing not to smoke around him or her,

in fact I think I'd make a point of it - -

without being asked.

[TXlib]

32. You are absolutely right

The father and his fucking-harpy-bitch-from-hell fiancee have clearly demonstrated that they do not care about your son, and have absolutely no desire to learn how to deal with his Asperger's.

I'd recommend suing to sever all parental rights for the father (but keep that child support coming, thank you very much), and, if necessary, get a restraining order.

Fuck 'em both. With a chainsaw.

[liberalhistorian]

35. "Keep that child support coming",

HA, that's a good one, I haven't gotten any in months and it will likely be awhile before I do, even though I'm supposed to get $300 a month.

And thanks, TXlib, for your support and for that quite colorful chainsaw-fucking image, lol!

[TXlib]

41. Can't you have him thrown in jail if he doesn't pay?

Some states do that, don't they?

You can at least have his wages garnished, right?

Send over some rough, burley men with crowbars to 'splain things to him and his sow?

[Djinn]

34. NO

and considering my posts in that other thread that might seem odd...I don't think banning or fining for smoking is a good idea but it's also clearly not something responsible people should inflict on others, that's why when I smoke it's only ever in my car (has never had a kid in it and prob never will) in my house (again no kiddies ever present) or in a big windy open space. So yeah if they refuse to smoke outside or not smoke when he's there - especially as he has complained about it - it's perfectly reasonable to say "he wont be coming"

My only proviso would be: be really careful about putting a distance between your son and his father - for whatever reason - maybe the fiance is a bitch from hell or maybe she's not THAT bad and being in a confrontational situation has skewed all of your perspectives, maybe she is trying to deal with the Aspergers but without having had as long as you to work out ways to cope she's not doing well...maybe your ex brings this up to her all the time and she feels insecure and inferior to you (which she probably is }( )which makes her defensive around you who (to her maybe) seems to cope so well. I'm just guessing here and she could well be a total selfish cow but from my experience a short period of non communication can turn into something longer term and more painful.

Best of luck with what sounds like a pretty crappy sitch! :)

[liberalhistorian]

37. I hear you about putting distance between

them and my son, but that's been his father's choice, not mine. I always bent over backwards to make sure they saw each other, from always being the one who made the arrangements, to taking him down there (we live about an hour apart), hanging around for an afternoon, then picking him up again, and they NEVER ONCE offered to share the transportation. Only when I said they had to start doing that, that it was only fair, did they start getting snippy.

And I've never ever said they had to stop smoking, I have no right at all to do that, just that I didn't want them smoking around him. They've obviously chosen cigarettes over seeing Chris, which is sad, but it's their choice.

[NightTrain]

38. Say what?!

<<I always bent over backwards to make sure they saw each other, from always being the one who made the arrangements, to taking him down there (we live about an hour apart), hanging around for an afternoon, then picking him up again, and they NEVER ONCE offered to share the transportation. Only when I said they had to start doing that, that it was only fair, did they start getting snippy.>>

OMFG, Lisa! Why the hell did you let those people take advantage of you like that? If I had been there, honey, that bullshit would've ended before it ever began! :grr: :nuke:

[liberalhistorian]

42. I know, I know, Dean,

and believe me, they ain't never taking advantage of me again! That's why I think they're so angry now, and why I don't hear from them anymore, because I finally put my foot firmly down and have made it clear I'm not taking their bullshit anymore and I'm not their doormat anymore. They don't like that, they want their doormat back. Well, TOUGH SHIT!!!, she ain't coming back!

[NightTrain]

43. In all fairness, I had a similar problem with my late father.

When I hit my early 20s, I finally decided to stop being somebody I wasn't merely because it pleased him. Instead, I started being the person I really was, and dad didn't quite know how to handle it.

Now when he made bigoted comments, rather than tacitly agreeing with him, I called dad on the carpet for it. That always made him angry, which in turn caused me to become even angrier, and a shouting match would ensue. Dad wasn't used to his son standing up to him like that, and he didn't like it one bit!

Interestingly, though, when I called my father on the carpet for his more extreme comments, he usually backed down. Probably just to keep the peace!

Oh, well. Dad wasn't perfect, but I know damned well he loved me. And I him. Hard to believe it's been six years since he died (and I still can't write about it without my eyes tearing up).

I think it's time for bed! :boring:

[liberalhistorian]

47. Dean, when

those tears start welling up, you know you can always call me! And hopefully the thought of our big weekend next month will cheer you up as well (only 36 more days, lol)!

[Djinn]

45. in that case

it sounds like you've done more than enough to keep a relationship between your son and his dad - especially after I read he kicked you out when preggers, I don't know if I could have been so magnanimous in that situation - your sons probably at an age now that he can see how crap they are and how hadr your trying and maybe even if the smoking thing wasn't an issue he'd put a little distance between them himself.

as for child support, I'd steal his viedo/stereo etc but then again I'm probably a little closer in personality type to the harpy from hell than to you, you seem very patient to have got this far!

[ChoralScholar]

36. My parents always smoked around me

convinced that they had no effect on my health. Surprise! I now have chronic bronchitis along with cough syncope directly as a result.

You have every right to ask them not to smoke. Also, depending on your state, isn't he getting close to the age where your son can choose his own visitation, as in whether he wants to go at all or not?

Otherwise... in the immortal words of a very close choir director friend:

"fuck 'em and feed 'em fish heads"

[arwalden]

50. I Quit Smoking & My Dog's Breathing Improved, Her Eyes Stopped Watering...

and she stopped her sneezing fits. It was not merely a coincidence.

-- Allen

[bubblesby2002]

39. No you are NOT wrong

So many people have so eloquently spoken to your situation, so I won't say too much more on the topic. But I do believe you are right here. The person who comes first is your son and his health.:hug:

[MrSlayer]

40. No, in this case I agree with you.

It's your child and I think your concerns for his obviously fragile health are well founded. I just happened to disagree with fining people who smoke in their cars while children are present. I got a warning for my "vitriolic" post. :P

[Lorien]

44. Good lord, your son is going through

MY childhood! (Except for the Asperger's). My parents were divorced, and my mom sent my sister and I to be with my dad and his girlfriend as often as possible (it seemed the argument was always over who had to take the kids, not who got to keep them). My father and his lady friend were both chain smokers, and I would get so ill-even after just a day- that I would vomit all through the following evening and have flu like symptoms for two or three days after that. I lost A LOT of school days due the the cigarette induced illnesses, and I'm severely allergic to cigarette smoke today. Please, continue doing whatever you can to spare your son the same troubles-and possibly worse. My grandmother died from an illness caused by secondhand smoke. Yes, she was fairly old when she passed, but she had not experienced secondhand smoke for many years yet it was enough to end her life.

If you can't come to any compromise, please only allow your son to visit while wearing a personal air ionizer (available at Sharper Image). I wear one when I travel to Europe and haven't had any truly nasty bouts with the smoke while I'm there.

[LuLu550]

46. He's wrong, you are right

Get a doctor's note to give to him.

[kenny blankenship]

48. No way.

even if your son didn't have asthma, it's terrible parenting for parents to smoke around their kids. Too much is known now about the effects of tobacco smoke --and especially the way the habit is transmitted, from one generation to the next-- for that not to be harmful.

[VOX]

49. Not in the slightest. He should know better.

Particularly when your son has asthma.

Cut and dried, IMO.

[earthman dave]

53. As a smoker, I agree with you completely.

I mean, how hard is it to step outside the back door to light up? Don't they have legs? Sheesh.

[liberalhistorian]

54. I know, you'd think I was demanding that

they starve themselves when he visited or something extreme like that! I have NEVER EVER said they had to stop smoking (I have no right at all to do that, that's their choice as adults), just that they cannot smoke around my son when he visits. Obviously, it's too much of a sacrifice for them.

[Westegg]

55. I'm a smoker. You're not wrong. You're right.

Listen, I'm smoking as I write this. That's MY problem. And I won't get into your other stuff, because those are family issues and none of my business. BUT I never smoke around other people's children. I wouldn't dare. And while I have no kids of my own yet, I know my wife and I will have one, and I will NEVER smoke around that kid. My mother grew up with a smoker (her mom) in the 1940s and '50s---and she realized later, when she became a nurse and married a doctor, that some of her ongoing health problems were the result of growing up in a smoke-filled house.

I wish you the best of luck with this situation.

[liberalhistorian]

56. Thanks! I'm an ex-smoker

myself and I'm fully aware of just how addicting it is, but I never ever smoked around kids or people who were bothered by it, and it certainly wasn't any great sacrifice either.

Probably better for me, since it cut down on how much I smoked, lol! Of course, the high price of cigarettes and the fact that I was a poor college student had a lot to do with cutting down on it as well.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

57. You are right in what you're doing...

I thought my mom was the most rude smoker in the world, until I read your post. She smokes around me, hey it's her house, she says, but I can't breathe. She has started turning the fan on for me, but it's not helping at all. I hate going back there. All my stuff stinks, my hair reeks, and I just get rid of the stench when I end up going home for a weekend again. It's ridiculous. And I now get broncitis every time I get a cold because my lungs are so messed up.
You are so right to not want your son around that. They obviously don't care about him at all when they chooses those damned things over Chris. And it sounds like most of the problem is the fiancee. It's really sad. If I were you, I wouldn't even want Chris around him at all. Hopefully you've instilled in him right from wrong (you probably have, you sound like a great mom), and he doesn't listen to him, but you know every moment he's over there they're teaching him crap that he doesn't need to know, and your name probably comes up often. He doesn't sound like he gives a crap for Chris, and your son is probably better off without them. Too bad that little 3 year old has to be around that crap. I grew up like that. It's not fun. Good luck. We'll be sending some good vibes your way. :hug: take one of these until then.
Duckie

[Burma Jones]

58. You are SOOOOOO Right

With Asthma, depending on the state in which you live, you may be able to make a case for endangerment. If they are not trained to handle a kid with Aspergers, they shouldn't be supervising him.

[geniph]

59. Asthma can be life-threatening

even mild asthma can take a turn for the worse and then the asthmatic ends up in an oxygen tent. No asthmatic - adult or child - should be forced to be around smoke or other inhaled irritants when there's any alternative. Now, a kid can't get in his car and leave for a hotel if they start smoking while he's there, so if you can't trust them not to smoke around him, it's not safe to send him there. (I'm just as sensitive to woodsmoke - it just doesn't give me a headache - so I have to avoid places with smoky fireplaces, too, or places recently painted, etc., etc.)

I really don't understand where the fiancee gets off thinking she can tell your son what to do. I'm a stepparent, and I'm very hands-off with my husband's sons. They aren't my kids, they have a mother already, and I do not interfere in how they're reared. I think it's way out of line for someone who has no legal status to try to act in loco parentis against the will of the parents.

[liberalhistorian]

60. Yes, that's indeed true about his fiance,

my son and I both had a decent relationship with his father before she came along. At first it really wasn't that bad at all, we were all friendly, but when their son was born her mask came off and the claws came out.

I think she's the one who's put her foot down with him, she's probably told him I'm an unreasonable bitch and she's not going to deal with it and she probably made him choose between her or his son. I feel bad for him in a way if that's the case, but he's the one who's made the choice to be controlled by her.

She's a very dominating, controlling, person who had put herself in charge of making all of the arrangements for everything, often without even consulting Chris's father, and she's the one responsible for our big email blowup last summer when I insisted that he wasn't going to come for any more overnight visits until they quite smoking around him, learned to handle his Asperger's better, and quit expecting me to do everything (provide all the transportation, etc., etc.) and to be their doormat, which is what they were used to. I f

[flamingyouth]

61. No - he has asthma

You'd think his father would be concerned for his kid's health enough not to smoke around him. You're not out of line at ALL.