My parents went to a "Restore the 10 Commandments" Rally last week.....

[jus_the_facts]

....where Allen Keyes was the keynote speaker...seems that insane Judge in Alabama has Keyes goin' around the south to Southern Baptist chruches now to enlist the simpelton sheeple...to dredge up as much support for their theocratic agenda as they can!

My Mom was sayin' it was such a GREAT presentation....o'course I had to immediately tell her that I knew all about the subject already...and that I loathed Allen Keyes and thought of him as a black Jerry Falwell/Rush wannabe.....and disagreed entirely with their efforts to *restore* the commandments in gov't buildings!!

She dropped the subject with a heavy sigh....their poor crazy liberal daughter...forever wayward and lost to the dark side....how pathetic is that? :(

[Kamika]

1. hmm

Not all liberals want them gone either :p

[Shoedogg]

2. They should. n/t

[jus_the_facts]

5. I'm one who does though.....and they KNOW this......

......yet they just HAD to bring it up regardless! x(

[DrWeird]

8. Liberals believe in seperation of church and state.

nt

[truthspeaker]

39. and Baptists used to

Back when they had to worry about being pushed around by the Episcopalians. If they knew and understood their own history they would be on the other side of this issue.

[donsu]

13. then they are not liberals

nt

[Philosophy]

3. Yeah, those guys are crazy

Did you hear about the bill the Senators from Georgia are introducing. It supposedly says that federal courts would be forbidden from reviewing any laws that seek to "acknowledge God". Totally unconstitutional, but effective pandering.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

4. I hadn't realized the church had shucked them

Why?

[Fenris]

6. "The Myth of Christian America" by Mark Weldon Whitten

This is a book written by a former professor of mine. He was a Baptist minister for 20 years before leaving to pursue a doctorate in philosophy. The book is well written and not intended to slander religious people.

I never miss an opportunity to plug this book.

[Kamika]

9. Arent the 10 commandments recognized by Islam and judaism aswell?

I mean it doesn't have to be christian per say

[jus_the_facts]

10. well there is still the *law* about SEPARATION of church and state..

....regardless of religion...but you know this already! :P

[Kamika]

11. oh... yeah

darn :P

[Fenris]

12. Note: There is an exception

Historical context. Look at the Supreme Court building. The 10 Commandments are up there. The problem with Moore and his Ten Commandments is that they were meant to be provaocative and get him attention. Not to mention the fact that he broke the law.

[HawkerHurricane]

15. Are the ten commandments up there?

Or is it a statue of Moses... along with Hammurabi and the other great historimythical lawgivers?

[Fenris]

18. Moses is holding the ten commandments, IIRC

[alittlelark]

36. My great uncle, Cass Stirling Gilbert was the architect of

the Supreme court building. The 10 commandments are there, as are reliefs of Confucius, Moses,Solon, and a couple of characters out of Aesop's fables. The design is based in Greek tradition and mythology. When the building was designed there was no question as to the separation of church and state. The building contains scenes from almost all major legal traditions.
He was a brusque and aloof man(according to grandparents), but cared deeply about fairness. He would never have considered placing the 10 commandments there as a stand-alone for US Law

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/bronzedoors.pdf
http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/washdc/supremecrt/supremecrt.html

[jus_the_facts]

19. Yeah and another historical footnote...the SCOTUS trashes the law itself

....biblical and constitutional...without remorse or regard in 2000! :puke:

[mitchum]

32. Yep, the skygod trio

[truthspeaker]

40. No

Interpreting those verses as 10 commandments is a Christian invention.

[salinen]

7. Sorry you have retarded parents

[jus_the_facts]

14. I can't even begin to express how sorry I am......

....but since I'm not wealthy...then I must be wrong! I've hit them with their own biblical logic...like say..."it's harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle"...to no avail. :evilfrown:

[Az]

16. The simple shutdown to the 10 commandments arg

Simply ask them which 10 commandments. Each of the major branches of Judeo/Xian sects references a different set of 10 commandments. The rights argument only really works as a rally point to beat down the godless heathens. As soon as the reality of the issue hits them in the face that they cannot reconcile the sects it falls apart.

Keep in mind that even the bible is a tad confused about what the 10 commandments are as well. Here is a link for a comparison of the big three and the confusion in the bible http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm .

[Snow]

21. I like the 10 punishments bit of that....

you might also ask them just what is was jesus said about the 10 commandments, since they're christian, after all....

[jus_the_facts]

23. Ahhh Az....nothin' matters but their own beliefs....all others are crap...

....they relish in how they are right and all others may as well be pagan...all I'm doin' is *intellectualizing* the issue...which is correct....but they've been brainwashed to believe that is a bad thing! :cry:

[Skittles]

17. So sorry, jus_the_facts

you want I should come over and kick their asses? I'm busy but I'd could squeeze them in as a favor to you.

[jus_the_facts]

20. Thank you Susan.....doubt even an ass kickin' would help at this point....

.....but I do appreciate you for offerin'! :loveya:

[bambo53]

22. Lord protect me from your followers

What's the difference between these so called Christians and common drug pushers? They're both trying to shove their version of La La land down my throat, and if it's so damn good, then why try to force everyone else to believe in their imaginary friends?

[smirkymonkey]

31. Here, here....

and their imaginary book, imaginary laws of god and imaginary morals.

[alittlelark]

37. My imaginary friend was more fun.

she loved me, and if I made her unhappy she would not cast me down into a fiery pit to burn forever in torment away from the eyes of the Lord

Like the fundie imaginary friend would.

[Gman]

24. As the parent of a Catholic schooler

we teach our daughter that the government has no business meddling in religion. That's why its in the constitution that they are separate. Even our parish priest acknowledged as much yesterday during his sermon.

[jus_the_facts]

25. That's a good thing...but the Baptist are hell bent on meddling in gov't..

....hopin' to make it a theocracy instead! :scared:

[Gman]

26. Our parish priest yesterday went into detail explaining why

the "old Hebrew way" was the 10 commandments and the "new Jesus way" is the beatitudes. Fundamentalists somehow don't want to acknowledge this. They usually argue, "but, but, but, the Old Testament is the bible too." But then so is the Torah.

Bottom line with the fundies is that they really don't want to do what Jesus commanded of them, period, stop. That would mean embracing poor people, non-whites, renouncing the rich, etc. So they very consciously choose to ignore Christ's teachings.

[HawkerHurricane]

33. Once upon a time...

Baptists supported the seperation of Church and State.

Of course, that was before they could claim to be a majority in several states.

Simple logic:
If you are in the minority, support rules that prevent the majority from abusing you.
If you are in the majority, attempt to do away with those rules so you can abuse the minority.

[beanball]

27. Place them in your heart

and on your wall at home.The rightwing hypocritical hatemongers are trying to sell their old brand of snake oil.

[VOX]

28. I was a "black sheep," too, jus_the_facts -- so I know what you're feeling

Anger, embarrassment, "being different," etc. Of course they're your folks, so you love them, but I know that having fundie parents isn't easy. My mom and her friends were always trying to save my liberal soul with "roller" tapes and tracts, and I always refused. I always voted Democratic, too -- the first on my mom's side of the family to do so.

Good for you for thinking things through on your own, and for having the courage of your convictions to hold your ground and speak your mind.

Take care :hug:

[jus_the_facts]

34. Thank you....it's difficult but I endure.....

....and I love them regardless...and them me as well!! :hi: :hug:

[PVnRT]

29. Hey, alright

I guess that means we start by stoning to death all of those Republican adulterers who want to display the Ten Commandments, then?

[KG]

30. Moses: Hear me! Oh, Hear me! All pay heed! The Lord, the Lord Jehovah has

given unto you these fifteen (crash)...Oy! ten, ten commandments for all to obey!

[jus_the_facts]

35. Let us pray....ooooh Lord...Ooooh you are so big....so absolutely HUGE....

....gosh we're reeeeally impressed down here I can tell you....forgive us for this our dreadful toting....and You're just soooo SUPER....amen!! :evilgrin:

and a little ditty to toss off..."......every sperm is sacred...every sperm is good..every sperm is neeeeeded in your neighborhooooood!!" :7

[uhhuh]

38. Whole thing reminds me of another tune

Nothing I Judge

Here they come
Why do they scare me so
Like a child, what I don't understand
Scares me

The largest crowd I've seen
Whose chanting fill the streets
These hollow feelings
Make me eager to see

Take a look
You can never be anyone
You can never be anyone
If I say even if you are
if I say even if you are

You're making me
Run from Jesus
You're scaring me away
From Jesus

Nothing I picture
Nothing I judge
I tear down walls I don't trust as strong
My actions speak louder then your words

Patience builds a bridge
Insecurity starts war
Admit we can be wrong
And we're as good
As we can be

Take a look
You can never be anyone
You can never be anyone
If I say even if you are
If I say even if you are

You're making me
Run from Jesus
You're scaring me away
From Jesus

Nothing I picture
Nothing I judge

I tear down walls I don't trust as strong
My actions speak louder then your words
You're making me run from Jesus
You're scaring me away from Jesus
Don't scare me away

-Human Drama (1989)